| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 1:19:03 PM |
Whenever this subject has been raised on here before I have always said its a selfish act but my views have changed somewhat and believe it depends on the motive behind someone wanting to take their own life.
I challenged my own belief on this topic purely as I have always believed in 'assisted suicide' and 'euthanasia' for those suffering intolerably in their lives. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 1:25:26 PM |
I'd have more respect for the victim if they troubled themselves to ask any interested parties how they would feel if they learned of their (impending) suicide.
Perhaps a lot of people who commit suicide don't plan it down to the very last detail weeks or months in advance. I would not expect someone suffering from auditory hallucinations to approach me and say, by the way Pauline, how would you feel if I killed myself?
A lot of people who do take their own life aren't in their right mind and having worked with people who have had psychosis, bi polar, schizophrenia, paranoia, if I did ask them whether they were going to kill themselves, I might not get much sense out of them if they were in the middle of a loss of insight.
I've spent times in my life where I've been at such low points that I've never felt like taking my own life but I've been depressed, after what happened to my uncle, I'd be the last person to ever contemplate it, but had 100 people queued up at that time to tell me how fantastic I was, I wouldn't have believed them, God knows how someone who was suffering from clinical depression might feel.
Lots of things in this life are selfish, I'm just glad I've never been in such a state that suicide has even been an option for me. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 2:00:47 PM | Hmmm. Remind me... who's the selfish one there again? The person who commits suicide - it's written clearly in the post you quoted.
Well, there are words written there indicating that, but the viewpoint behind them doesn't match - hence the question... 
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 2:18:15 PM | | When someone commits suicide I would imagine that the internal struggle they are going through at the time of suicide would make those nearest and dearest to them seem like a million light years away in comparison to the immediacy of their predicament.....to be free of the internal despair that has brought them to that point.......perhaps they do think about their loved ones but the struggle of living seems too unbearable for words or feelings any more. It is a selfish act, from the bereaved's point of view, and makes it incredibly difficult to come to terms with. Let's face it, life is the one thing we all have control over to some extent and the thought that someone we loved would want to end it is unimaginable....but to the person who commits suicide it might feel like the most un-selfish thing they had done with their life, difficult as that might be to think of in that way. Of course it's terrible for those who witness a suicide and it's not surprising they suffer trauma afterwards. I don't really understand why some people choose to end their lives in such a way as to cause pain to others, except perhaps those are the ones who really want out this second and aren't thinking clearly. I guess it's even harder to think that someone who commits suicide might be totally aware of what they are doing and planned it. For the bereaved they have to make their peace in whatever way they can. It is painful to think this way, but if a person chooses to end their life....they will. You don't own them and their life is the one thing they truly own. It is incredibly difficult and sad for those left behind but half the battle is accepting that we are all individuals connected to each other by our feelings, emotionally and physically and nothing more. I feel sad for those that have suffered loss in this way as I believe it's the most difficult sort of loss to come to terms with. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 2:48:55 PM |
Well, there are words written there indicating that, but the viewpoint behind them doesn't match - hence the question..
Hmm...so a poster (in two posts) stated that he considers the victim to be 'selfish', you accept that his words indicated that he was referring to the victim as being the 'selfish' one, yet you consider that the "viewpoint behind them doesn't match"?
Match 'what', exactly? His comments were entirely consistent, and he didn't contradict himself once.
Any chance you could dumb your comment down so that someone as thick as me could understand it? | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 2:56:45 PM | We're all thinking about this and contributing to this debate with a rational mind and reasoned opinions.
People who are suicidal aren't looking at killing themselves in quite the same way. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 3:45:46 PM | I don't think anyone can understand the true horror of being either side of suicide and repeated suicide attempts until they have been in that situation, and sadly even then, as all situations are so different it seems that no-one can fully comprehend the full range of emotions involved.
With all emotive subjects we can only pass comment from our own personal experiences, and my personal story leads me to say while it's tragic that anyone feels worthless enough to end their life, it's also tragic that they are not able to understand just how it affects those left behind.
There is no right or wrong way to feel about this subject, it's way too personal a topic to pass judgement on other's perspectives. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:46:56 PM | You know, it's hard enough being left behind when someone kills themselves as it is.
My uncle drowned himself, we had to wait a month until his body was recovered, that was a month of every time I shut my eyes, I couldn't sleep and I've suffered from insomnia ever since. Difficult enough going through the days inbetween him going missing to realising that he was dead, but if he had actually said to any of us beforehand, by the way, I'm thinking of killing myself, I wonder how many families would be able to cope with that.
And yes, I know that there will be people who love those who make repeated suicide attempts, how that must affect them, god only knows, they have my utmost respect.
People don't end their lives because it's a fun thing to do, they generally do it because they are tortured. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/27/2009 5:22:44 PM | A friend commited suicide, he was a work colleague who as i know now was depressed about the breakup with his wife and felt he was worthless becauase of this ( he was 45) The church was full to capacity for the funeral and the common feeling was " if only we had said something and reaffirmed how this chap was valued by us all"
The repercussions are many, the important ones for his family are could they have done something more, his estranged wife- was she responsible? his friends- if we had said something to bolster his confidence.
the lesser repercussions are his life insurances/mortgage wont payout- but thats only money- the biggest repercussion is that we all think what a waste. (he was in good health)
I have no axe to grind- with terminally ill people or those with poor quality of life that death would be a release but with those who have the availability of Life choices I would drag them round a hospital and show them how lucky they really are and that things could be awhole lot worse. (simplistic I know)
As for those who commit suicide publicly- I dont applaud their Narcacistic displays which shows a blatant diseregard for anyone but themselves.
Looking at the demographic of suicides those who have heavy manual labour jobs or those who exercise are a lot less prone to suicide than those with more cerebral works and activities
I am sure someone will mention natural endorphins being released by exercise but I wonder if our now sedentry lifestyle and existance in cities has a great deal to do with the increase in Suicide? | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 2:32:33 AM | | Suicides are awful for everyone around. The most common reason i have seen and heard of in my area is men commiting suicide over a women. And the most common theme as witnessed here. Very few women commit suicide. why? who is the strongest of the sexes? | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 3:30:11 AM | | There is a difference in public support between elected euthanasia and suicide, the argument would ask where is the line between a physical illness such as MS or Parkinsons and a Mental Health illness. For the people having to deal with years of a loved one's constant suicide attempts and the trauma, anger, pain and eventual switching off of emotions for survival that this brings there might not be a line at all. Where is the line for someone who really does want to die? How many times can someone be told their loved one has tried to kill themselves before repeated trauma turns to numbness? Would these people rather a living will was available to those with MH issues, currently it's not. If you have a MH history you don't have the right to die. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 4:30:59 AM | Some suicides, do smack of a selfish attitude, i.e. the ones who are punishing others by 'getting them back'. The ones who can't go on living without their partner, when there are young children in the picture. Or, the ones who go out with a dramatic bang, in front of an audience.
However, I don't think that all of them are so. Some, I believe, truly feel that they are helping those around them, by slipping out of this existence.
After many years of depressive illness and something which we now deem as a treatable, curable, illness (gastric and duodenal ulcers), my father took his own life, when I was fourteen and a half years old. He did it quietly on his bed, in our empty home, by analgesia overdose.
Initially I was in shock, then I was angry that he'd left us. For years I suffered guilt, because I had had an urge that day, to go home, during schooltime, but let a friend talk me out of it.
I know my dad felt like he was making us all suffer, through his illness. I know he felt worthless and that we would be better off without him.
In these circumtances, I don't think that when they are feeling so low, they consider how badly others will feel when they're gone. I believe that they only see how much easier life will be for their loved ones, without them there.
Of course, we could tell them otherwise, if they asked us. However, if they were able to be lucid enough to ask us, they probably wouldn't be committing suicide............. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 5:35:43 AM | | Someone close to me attempted suicide. He was taken off a Mental Health Section for being a danger to himself and others, against the recommendation of his psychiatric nurse - they needed the beds - and four days after leaving hospital 'voices' told him to jump in front of a train approaching a platform. He needed his right arm above the elbow, and both legs amputated above the knees. It isn't always depression that causes someone to commit suicide. Now he is under permanent Section, being taken care of in a care home so they make sure he takes his anti-psychotic medications. Before, after continually being let of Sections, he would return to his flat and not take the tablets because he says he enjoyed hearing the voices. Consequently he was reSectioned and this was an ongoing occurrence. Now his meds are given on a continuous basis and he can't refuse them, he is able to make a life for himself and is taking an Open University degree. He is totally wheelchair bound, but he now acts normally for the first time in many years. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 5:48:45 AM | Fragile things us humans……..
What my son had to deal with was, not the horrific episode, he was told no one can erase your memory of it…..but to have your emotional thinking re educated …..When someone dies, we feel loss…..not anger straight away…..he hated this person….he has put images in his head that will stay with him forever……
But our brain tells us that it is wrong to feel such feeling towards someone who has died…we must feel loss…………..sometimes it does not happen like that…..
He was taught that it is ok to feel anger towards a dead person……….and to cope with the feeling of guilt about feeling angry……xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 7/28/2009 5:54:57 AM | | thats a good point RBE's, its not really about suicide but i was saying to someone the other day is it pattern of behaviour that makes us feel hurt when someone dies, there is no real rule that says dying=saddness. Its only what is expected. Not sure if i have explained that very well. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:44:03 PM | I learned yesterday that someone who was once close to me is currently in hospital following a suicide bid. Apparently (I don't know much of the story yet) it's his third attempt.
I do not hold this person in high esteem, I have long thought him selfish and thoughtless to the needs of others, his actions now have merely confirmed my views. He is married, he has two daughters, one of whom is very severely disabled, yet he has just buggered off and tried to top himself three times so far. His family are in bits, they don't know what to do, his elder daughter is now terrified to hear the phone ring, in case it's the call to tell her that another attempt was successful. His wife is now left trying to look after their younger daughter alone.
When asked why he did it, he answer was "I've been ill for a long time."
This isn't the action of a person who is at their wits end, it is the act of someone who is seeking attention, it's the worst kind of selfish behaviour.
By no means would I consider everyone who attempted or was successful in taking their own life in the same way. In this case I have no other option but to think the way I think.
My thoughts and love are with those that he attempted to leave behind.
I hope he gets the treatment he needs in order to return to a fulfilling life, other than that, I have no sympathy for him. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:54:52 AM | | When the man said that he had been ill for a long time, I take that to mean he is saying he has been depressed for a long time? True clinical depression can be very waring to the sufferer and staying alive is often a harder prospect than giving up. I was married to a man who suffered clinical depression and nothing made him happy besides vodka. He tried to take his own life many times unsucessfully. My mum a bipolar sufferer tried to take her own life when in the middle of a depressive episode..My first boyfriend took his own life....I dont feel any of them were selfish, just extremely tortured souls and I feel very sorry for anyone suffering in that way. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:31:21 PM | Aunty, I don't disagree with you in any way. My post related to one person and, having learned more of the circumstances, I am even more inclined to think he is attention seeking.
He is using the threat of suicide as another way to manipulate those around him.
I wouldn't dream of making the same assessment of anyone I didn't know and am only too aware of the attractiveness of suicide when one is in the deepest pits of depression.
When the threat of suicide and even lame attempts at it are used as a tool to control those around you, it is the lowest form of behaviour | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:48:38 PM |
When the threat of suicide and even lame attempts at it are used as a tool to control those around you, it is the lowest form of behaviour
I totally agree with this line.. In my opinion if someone is truly that ill that they want to take their life.. they will do so.. they wont 'attempt'.. they wont 'threaten'.. they will just do it..
My eldest Brother committed suicide many years ago.. leaving behind a wife.. 3 children.. a Mother.. a Sister and Brother..
My poor Mum (who died a few years later) was beside herself.. to outlive your children is so unnatural.. and she saw it as total rejection and failure..
I loved my Brother dearly.. but to this day I will never forgive him for the pain he left behind with his.. what I deem to be very selfish act.. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:11:30 AM | | one act of suicide can ruin many peoples lives..and destroy a whole family..its somthing that you never get over..and somtimes its hard to forgive the person for doing it although you still love them.. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:32:01 AM | | it all sounds pretty simple for me. Provide an area in this country where people can commit suicide. If its controlled and safe, it will move it into a way where it can be monitored and done right - they should be able to work out those that are just attention seeking and those who actually want to do it - and getting it correct is then useful. The NHS must spend a fortune of people failing to commit suicide. | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:37:50 AM |
When the man said that he had been ill for a long time, I take that to mean he is saying he has been depressed for a long time? True clinical depression can be very waring to the sufferer and staying alive is often a harder prospect than giving up. I was married to a man who suffered clinical depression and nothing made him happy besides vodka. He tried to take his own life many times unsucessfully. My mum a bipolar sufferer tried to take her own life when in the middle of a depressive episode..My first boyfriend took his own life....I dont feel any of them were selfish, just extremely tortured souls and I feel very sorry for anyone suffering in that way.
I don't think of suicides as selfish, they are just ill, and that illness eventually became terminal.
They didn't perform a selfish act, the illness has no compassion, or discrimination, it is arbitrary.
If someone dies of a 'physical' illness, - an illness of the body, no-one questions their motives. I don't see why it should be any different with a mental illness, an illness in the brain.
And how many times do you hear the cry from those left behind; "if only he/she had talked to us about it, we may have been able to help"
So whilst I sympathise with those living with people who threaten this, would you prefer that they said nothing, and then just did it? - Probably not.
Depression strikes about 20% of us in one form or another, and with varying degrees of severity. It is not easy, or easy to live with, but neither is any illness. I don't see it as cowardly, or selfish, they sure as hell didn't ask to be depressed.
It deserves the same sympathy as any other illness, IMO | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/17/2009 10:55:07 AM | | hi , well my freinds partner hung himself just in time fr us to walk thru the door with his kids , 6 months ago and we still cnt gt over it , bn of work, cant sleep eat , nothing bt its the kids that are really suffering to see their dad like that , we nw have problems , panic attacks etc , these people are just selfish , dont think wt thy doing to others | |
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| Repercussions of a suicide
Posted: 10/17/2009 10:59:29 AM | People who kill themselves are troubled and I am very sorry for the people who are left behind as I'm one of them but blaming everyone as selfish doesn't help.
Some people have mental health issues or are clinically depressed and can't go on.
The person who ends their life must have been suffering to even contemplate it. | |
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