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Inicia
| | Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 151 | |
| | Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?Page 7 of 11 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) | | very beautiful....not a true hallucination but thanks for sharing | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 6:05:39 PM | Shiva removes the illusion. The image captures a vision i saw with DMT, all the lines moving slowly, pure light danceing, silence filled with sound.. as fare as i could see and all, entites pulsing.unity breathing.
^^^^
From the artist.
Wonder who in this thread created this? | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 6:31:40 PM | ^^^^Funny, I wasn't going to say it but Shiva is an entity that I've ran into on DMT. I've become much more interested in Hinduism since noticing the symbology and art in my DMT trips as being distinctly from the Hindu religion.
I guess I don't think it's correct to call what you see on DMT a "hallucination", since it is very real. I don't really see this as a matrix though, it's more like this reality is one aspect of the hyperspace you're aware of with DMT. I'm sure it's what the yogis would experience after many hours of meditation, and my wisdom and intuition tells me that trying to shortcut too much is always a bad thing. I don't think that David understands what he is experiencing enough to do what he is doing, especially if he is trying to escape this reality. There has to be a certain level of maturity reached. It's like trying to read the kaballah Book of Creation, the Sefer Yetzirah, without having the life experience first. The rabbis who did went mad.
just my two cents... | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 6:36:33 PM |
I guess I don't think it's correct to call what you see on DMT a "hallucination", since it is very real. I don't really see this as a matrix though, it's more like this reality is one aspect of the hyperspace you're aware of with DMT. I'm sure it's what the yogis would experience after many hours of meditation, and my wisdom and intuition tells me that trying to shortcut too much is always a bad thing. I don't think that David understands what he is experiencing enough to do what he is doing, especially if he is trying to escape this reality. There has to be a certain level of maturity reached. It's like trying to read the kaballah Book of Creation, the Sefer Yetsirah, without having the life experience first. The rabbis who did went mad.
They are hallucinations.
LSD causes your brain to produce DMT which causes the same hallucinations.
What do you think a hallucination is?
The only way to avoid a hallucination on DMT is without a MAOI. Without a MAO inhibitor, the body quickly metabolizes orally administered DMT, and it therefore has no hallucinogenic effect unless the dose exceeds monoamine oxidase's metabolic capacity; which is rare.
That's why it's smoked, snorted, injected or ingested as ayahuasca - to produce hallucinations.
I know you've tripped on it, and I'm sure it was crazytown, but try and read about it from a subjective viewpoint.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8297216?dopt=abstractplus | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 6:45:21 PM | Hallucinations sounds like something that isn't real, so I don't like to use it. What you see on DMT is most definitely real. It's not something you can learn about by reading about it.
I tend to look at things OBjectively, not subjectively. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 6:56:41 PM |
Hallucinations sounds like something that isn't real, so I don't like to use it. What you see on DMT is most definitely real. It's not something you can learn about by reading about it.
They're pictures in your brain. They're things that aren't tangibly in front of you.
IE - Seeing what isn't "there"; "there" is referring to what is physically around you. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:01:04 PM | bosox, everything you see are just pictures in your brain, does that make them less real?
How are you so sure about what you experience on DMT without having experienced it?
You won't see this on DMT, but it's a trip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djar_kYCl3w | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:10:19 PM | bosox, everything you see are just pictures in your brain, does that make them less real?
How are you so sure about what you experience on DMT without having experienced it?
sigh.
I didn't say it wasn't real. Obviously, reality is subjective.
I said hallucinations are seeing things in front of you and around you that are not the result of light reflecting off the molecules moving around you at various speeds.
I sent you the study of DMT, and what was shown by watching the brain.
There are also people who have done DMT who realize they didn't actually transcend space and time or go meet aliens and God. Just like when I tripped on shrooms with a physicist, Gorton's fisherman wasn't chilling next to me taking notes in his yellow rain coat.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_info1.shtml | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:17:37 PM | bosox, everything you see are just pictures in your brain, does that make them less real?
Please don't engage bosox in a debate about this...selfish me, I don't want to see the carnage that will ensue...
Or...go ahead...sometimes I like horror movies...
And let us, by all means, leave Shiva, Krishna, Kali, Brahman, and Ganesh out of it.
Trust me, you don't want to wake them...
edit post: too late... | |
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late™
| | Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 160 | |
| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:27:16 PM | http://www.erowid.org
This is an excellent site for information on psychotropics/psychedelics/ethnogins, subjective and objective. The very first clinical handbook for LSD is archived there, my dad helped write it. He was one of the first people involved in the first LSD trials in Weyburn Sask. back in the early 50s, and some of the subsequent follow-up studies.
There are also people who have done DMT who realize they didn't actually transcend space and time or go meet aliens and God.
Nope, same space and time, no aliens, no gods, just a REALLY big funhouse mirror of the mind. In the proper setting and with the proper safeguards, therapies for some, ...imbalances, are available that no other process can match for effectiveness.
edit post
edit post: too late...
Indeed
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:28:35 PM |
Just like when I tripped on shrooms with a physicist, Gorton's fisherman wasn't chilling next to me taking notes in his yellow rain coat.
Sweetheart, I was doing shrooms at work when you were still pooping your diapers. Mushrooms and LSD are no more like DMT than pot is. The fact that you're comparing the two is proof you don't really know what you're talking about. Even Terrance McKenna, no stranger to psychedelics, said LSD is nowhere near DMT.
There are also people who have done DMT who realize they didn't actually transcend space and time or go meet aliens and God.
I think you're talking out your butt here. Everyone I know that has actually DONE DMT has a very different perspective. You seem to be lost in science. For the record, I haven't ran into any aliens...maybe God, but no aliens...yet. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:38:55 PM | I think you're talking out your butt here. Everyone I know that has actually DONE DMT has a very different perspective. You seem to be lost in science. For the record, I haven't ran into any aliens...maybe God, but no aliens...yet.
I sent you to the website where I first learned what DMT was, the man talks about it very differently than you do. After I saw my friend act like she had been possessed after it was done, I wanted to learn about it. I've also read about someone who has done it 8 times and still talks about it as a "wild trip"
Sweetheart, I was doing shrooms at work when you were still pooping your diapers. Mushrooms and LSD are no more like DMT than pot is. The fact that you're comparing the two is proof you don't really know what you're talking about. Even Terrance McKenna, no stranger to psychedelics, said LSD is nowhere near DMT.
Sugarbuns, I was pooping in my diapers from the time you were 10-12.
I didn't say mushrooms and DMT trips were the same. I said they both produce hallucinations.
LSD can make people crazy who can't handle it, too. To others, it can win Nobel Prizes and cause answers to come in the waking REM state. They still have to have their logic to use the answers they find within their abstract thoughts.
Few molecules can penetrate what is known in biology as the "blood brain barrier". Those that do go directly to the neuron. After that it becomes a matter of their ability to imitate one of the neurotransmitters. Our neurons have a safety device for this type of situation. The neurotransmitters have a unique molecular shape and can only fit in a specific slot on the synaptic surface. Mind-altering drugs all operate on mimicking one of the neurotransmitters. (Most all drugs work internally, one exception is alcohol. Alcohol's effect is caused by altering the sensitivity of the some or cell wall.)
LSD happens to be one of the more famous antagonists of the Pineal gland. It not only penetrates the blood brain barrier but slips slyly into the transmission site inside the nerve cells themselves. It can mimic serotonin to the point where the body thinks its serotonin and consequently shoots it across the synaptic gap. When LSD reaches the other side it is accepted but the LSD doesn't carry the message any further. The impulse of electricity is redirected down less familiar pathways, pathways which have not been highly conditioned. Specifically LSD affects the oldest parts of the brain first (e.g. upper end of the spinal cord, medulla oblongata, cerebrum, pineal gland and hypothalamus region) then the bloodstream takes it forward into the immediate back brain (location of sight interpretation) up through the area of hearing, the cerebellum, other sense interpretive centers, and the motor areas.
Using radioactive molecules traced with LSD, science has been able to follow the course of LSD through the various channels and avenues of the body. It has been found found that after selecting certain areas of the various parts of the brain it then migrates to sections with fewer imprints, for instance the right of the hemisphere, the so-called creative center. By redirecting consciousness, as it were, into the unimprinted areas of the cortex, one hypothetically experiences the world anew, hence the variety of interpretations which arise upon questioning psychedelic voyagers about their "trip". Because of LSD's antagonistic effect on serotonin and the pineal gland itself, it would seem quite likely there is a chemical relationship between mental illness and deficiencies of serotonin. But intravenous doses have been administered to humans with no psychedelic effects noted. Melatonin itself has the same indole structure as LSD. LSD causes the release of Dimethyltryptamine. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:03:11 PM | I have spent thousands of hours meditating and it is possible to produce experiences quite similiar to drug trips. Less intense (I have not experienced Samhadi a.k.a. enlightenment) but much more transformative and intelligable, if still very difficult to put into words.
Included are visions, speaking in tounges, channelling discarnate entitites and astral projection. All without drugs (or hang-over)...  | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:05:55 PM | | I was told... that my drug experiments of my teenage and early adulthood (mostly LSD) were actually setbacks toward Yogic attainment. I am not sure if this is for psychological reasons (expectations, attachment, lazyness...) or physical reasons (depletion of glands...). | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:16:05 PM |
I was doing shrooms at work when you were still pooping your diapers
Ah the old 'I was doing this or that when you were nothing but a twinkle in your father's eye" except with a fecal twist. How do you find that argument works for you? I'm just wondering because I'm in my 40s now and so maybe I could trot that one out if I'm ever on the losing end of an argument.  On another note, you must have had a pretty safe job because if I had ever done mushrooms at work I would have surely ended up cutting off one of my limbs. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:31:12 PM | Ah the old 'I was doing this or that when you were nothing but a twinkle in your father's eye" except with a fecal twist. How do you find that argument works for you? I'm just wondering because I'm in my 40s now and so maybe I could trot that one out if I'm ever on the losing end of an argument. On another note, you must have had a pretty safe job because if I had ever done mushrooms at work I would have surely ended up cutting off one of my limbs.
Who's arguing? I made that remark because bosox implied that since she tripped mushrooms with the gorton fisherman, that now she understands what it's like to take DMT. Then she used semantics to say that she only said they both caused hallucinations, which is what she was originally contending that I disagreed with. I said that I didn't see DMT as causing something that isn't real, and she insists on believing she understands the experience, or any experience, from reading a book, a common mistake.
At 12, I was a caddy at a country club, and the shrooming was great. 
I gotta say though, no matter how tripped out I've been - I've never felt like cutting off a limb. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 9:56:54 PM |
They're pictures in your brain. They're things that aren't tangibly in front of you.
What you percieve as this reality are also pictures in your brain aren't they? Who's to say which hallucination is reality and which reality is hallucination? Or are they both? We really don't know for sure. But from what I see, DMT gets you much closer to (the/a) real deal. But I've also come to believe that inducing it artificially may not be the best route to go. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 10:14:24 PM | Who's arguing? I made that remark because bosox implied that since she tripped mushrooms with the gorton fisherman, that now she understands what it's like to take DMT. Then she used semantics to say that she only said they both caused hallucinations, which is what she was originally contending that I disagreed with. I said that I didn't see DMT as causing something that isn't real, and she insists on believing she understands the experience, or any experience, from reading a book, a common mistake.
No, I didn't. I didn't say I understand the experience. I'm saying you don't transcend time and space, you don't meet any creatures. It's all chemical reactions in your brain. I said you can use drugs to think MORE abstractly, but without returning to use logic, those abstract thoughts are useless and you become consumed by the madness of the abstraction created in your left brain.
I said I hallucinated and I know that it was a hallucination, even though according to my brain he was sitting right there. I remember him being there, sitting next to me, looking up occasionally. It was also raining over him. Nowhere else. Just on him. I remember feeling the droplets bounce off his coat and into my face. I remember warning him that his notebook was going to get wet, and him staring at me and Dr. G laughing hysterically because he didn't see Gorton's fisherman. I was angry that he was laughing because Gorton's Fisherman was fvcking there.
BUT HE WASN'T.
I've had a near death experience that I caused, so just because I didn't trip off synthesized DMT doesn't mean I don't know what it's like to feel how you felt.
Psychedelics mimic neurotransmitters and cause hallucinations. End of story. There is no "real deal" with DMT. You tripped balls and that was that. You had abstract thoughts that your brain showed you because of the drugs. THAT'S IT. Everything you saw in your trip came from your brain, whether it was a seed that planted like with David seeing the Matrix or something else. You saw YOUR BRAIN'S abstract thoughts. Period. | |
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late™
| | Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 171 | |
| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 10:59:46 PM |
You saw YOUR BRAIN'S abstract thoughts. Period.
Anything other-worldly, or religious that people attribute to hallucinations is born of preconception, period. Even with NDEs, people don't have visions about things they don't already relate to. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/5/2009 11:26:27 PM |
I've become much more interested in Hinduism since noticing the symbology and art in my DMT trips as being distinctly from the Hindu religion.
That's funny cause I was seriously into Allah when I was on ayahuasca - and the only vision I had besides the rainbows was the trees outside looked a lot like a Muslim city with mosques. My friend who did it got really into China.
It's not JUST the brain recreating images - if you believe there is some communication going on between the brain and the outside world, then it is basically an amplification of what is within combined with what is outside. Nothing we do is purely internal or purely objective. We're all hallucinating right now but it's subdued by our direct sensory experience since that is much more practical to survive (most of the time).
I've had faint hallucinations in waking life and it serves an important purpose always. It is real in the sense that I am interacting with it and so it affects my behaviour and thus my communication with everyone I meet. If I see a giant creature walking beside me at night and feel its presence others will sense something about me that is different because of it, even if they don't see it.
I've had many a visualization now where the visions are shared between me and another person. This is very real, and so it can't only be explained by what is going INSIDE the brain but between us as well that amplifies the experience. The brain just gives and receives, it doesn't produce the hallucinations themselves.
Hallucinations are real - if it happens it's real, it's just not going on in physical reality, but in some other reality. Everything that happens changes us, changes our brain, changes everything about how we see. There's no need to downplay it because it's not physically tangible. | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:54:34 AM | What i think is happening under the influence of DMT is your getting a glimpse of 5th dimensional space , ive also noticed that it has the quality of being like dreams, in as much as, you know when you have had a intense vivid dream and then you wake up , and you try to describe the dream to a freind and then a few minutes into the description , your like , HMMM how did it go again , i forgot !!
it's like it seals it off once your down and back within 4 dimensional spacetime , and as time passes it becomes harder to describe it ? | |
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 10:50:21 AM | Ok... back on topic.
The original question...
Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
For the record, the patterns that are described are a lot like fractals. Again, I go back. All the veins and the blood pumping through the veins are one type of fractal. They are all similare but none are the same. They created a rancom pattern but as a whole it makes a picture.
Example: Look at lighted lamp for roughly 30 seconds and then close your eyes. You will see random spots or specks of lights of all kinds of colours. It is what you are seeing sort of from your eye to the shut eye lid. The blood vessels the random light images from the lamp, etc. It is a sort of fractal. Ususally, these images are clourful and all abstract.
I have never taken drugs... I sort of have this idea the when you take drugs, some our earthly senses are hightened and it gives to your brain some mixed messages and the only way I believe for the brain to more or less work at keeping you alive is to retreive into itself and keep you in a semi conscious or unconscious while it is trying to keep you alive. While this is happening, you are then seeing inside your brain all these colourful images that are produced by your confused senses, I suspect what is seen by the eyes.
Like I say... This is just a gut feeling.
My near death experiences were never fearful experiences and no I did not come back able to solve all the riddles of the universe and I never even had the thought that I should fear anything or anyone or that I have knowledge that is sooooooo dangerous that only the chosen few who happen to completely agree with me can know.
But... I have had many dreams also from these luminous beings and never ever were there words spoken per say... All communication is done in pure thought... no words in any language... I guess somewhat telepathic. I get really pissed sometimes because every friggen time this happens, when I wake up I feel like I had the most interesting conversations and the information was awsome and when I wake up I can never remember... EVER...
The only wordless thought I remember is that I will somehow be able to remember when I need the information at the time what ever will happen where I need this information. I have no other way to express this wordless thought.
Again... the notion of time... our time... I mean the time that we live by dictated by our universe... Which will bring me to the other thread...
I do not mean to be rude but I am a bit annoyed at seeing posts from people who seem to promote the idea of taking drugs and comparing notes as to who has the real truth because the drugs were better...
For those that are interested... Fractals... think of Persian art... The Persian carpets, the doors of the meccas... etc... Where there is a repetitive pattern but not a picture per say and the more you look at the pattern the more you see sort of different pictures by paying attention to certain lines... etc...
In nature, the best example of fractals, clouds, looking at ferns with many branches, trees, snow flakes... They are everywhere...
Our body is one big fractal... It only makes sense to me that when you are on drugs that your brain would show you fractal images like it was presented by a poster, I am refering to message number 150.
It is only natural that the images would be in warm colours, like oranges and reds and yellows... Our blood is red and our bodies have all kinds of liquids of different colours.
Anyway... Nothing really brilliant to say appart that the pineal gland is very interesting to me.
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| Does the hallucinogen DMT get released in the brain as were dying ?
Posted: 8/6/2009 9:15:34 PM | Once again, practically nobody here understands DMT at all. This is blatently evident by the posts from those attempting to explain what it is without ever consuming it, nor in the rare manner I have.
I've taken probably some of the highest doses of mescaline and psilicybin possible without dying. taken well in excess of 1000 micrograms of LSD.
I know everything and anything these substances generate and create within the mind. I have extensive understanding of this reality and dellusional states.
DMT is NOT a hallucinogen in high doses, it goes FAR beyond that and the notion of what reality really is. You can try and throw all the science and crap you want at this. Those who have not experienced it in the manner I have described don't have a clue. This should be abundantely clear by the fact that the pineal gland has been worshiped with Godlike status for millenia. Universily to a greater degree then other entheogens in human history.
I feel like I'm wasting my time here, because so few people have gone where I have. Only they will know what I am talking about. The rest will just speculate and hypothisize because they don't want to believe what I have been stating is happening with this stuff.
I love Mckenna, brilliant man, he will be missed,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2KnN6N9bWE | |
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