| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/30/2009 8:23:52 PM |
and to top that off they preach abstinance to our teenagers and the teen pregnancy rate increases
Ever heard of teenage rebellion? Did you do everything your parents told you to when you were a teen? If yes, you must a been a boatload of fun!! I don't think preaching abstinance to kids is going to work any better than preaching safe sex. Unfortuently kids are going to do what kids are going to do when they get the oppurtunity to do it. When I was 15 and 16 years if when I got the chance to get lucky I took it and so does every other teenager with hormones. No matter what. Kids that are 14 and 15 nowdays act like 20 years did 15-20 years ago, they think they are more sophisticated and wise in the ways of the world, and thanks to things like the internet, it may be true, and it is a fact that there is plenty of sex on the internet. Maybe that has something to do with it.
I see no problem with education, but I don't think it is going to change anything unless you could get their heroes to educate them. You know, like musicians: "Before I rock I always roll one on." Sports figures: "When it's the bottom of the ninth and I'm shooting for a home run I always make sure my bat is protected."
A wise person once said: "You want to ensure a 15 year old does something? Have their parents tell them not to do it." | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/30/2009 8:38:16 PM |
I see no problem with education, but I don't think it is going to change anything unless you could get their heroes to educate them. You know, like musicians: "Before I rock I always roll one on." Sports figures: "When it's the bottom of the ninth and I'm shooting for a home run I always make sure my bat is protected."
The truth eludes you through choice our Canadian neighbors have access to all of the same technology we have and yet a lower teen pregnany rate, the only difference is they start early sex education
Why are you so set against it, is it because President Obama wants it? If not why? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/30/2009 8:44:06 PM |
Ever heard of teenage rebellion? Did you do everything your parents told you to when you were a teen?
Are you trying to imply that there isn't teenage rebellion in places with low/lower teenage pregnancy rates? If so, I've got news for you... | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/30/2009 11:23:29 PM | If Teen pregnancies had gone down after the abstinance only programs, swamp would of course say that it was those great policies.
So Swamp, tell me, how effective do you think abstinence only programs are? Considering your sky rocketing teen pregnancy rates during the period which these were funded?
Ever heard of teenage rebellion?
Yes a uniquely American phenomenon, nobody else in the world has teenage rebellion. Also if teenage rebellion causes higher pregnancies as a result of abstinence only education... it still makes abstinence only education a STUPID thing, because you still get more pregnant teenagers. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/30/2009 11:58:54 PM |
Why are you so set against it, is it because President Obama wants it? If not why?
Exactly what part of "I see no problem with sex education" in my post did you not understand? I'm not against it, just don't think it's gonna make a hill of beans of a difference. Like I've said before, we had condoms available when I was in high school, and we were educated and we still had girls who wound up pregnant. I doubt that if they were educated from pre-school you could have doused the numbers much.
Yes a uniquely American phenomenon, nobody else in the world has teenage rebellion. Also if teenage rebellion causes higher pregnancies as a result of abstinence only education... it still makes abstinence only education a STUPID thing, because you still get more pregnant teenagers.
I never said abstinence only education wasn't a stupid thing. In fact I think everything I stated in my post kind of leaned to the fact it doesn't work. Even when I agree with some of the people here they try to turn it into an argument. And where exactly are they teaching this abstinance only education? Disneyland? My daughter was just in a sex ed class and although they mention it as the only 100% guarantee against sexually transmitted diseases, I saw it mentioned no where else in the curriculum.
Some questions though: When exactly do you think mommy and daddy government ought to start teaching little Bobby and little Susie to use their condoms and IUDs? Kindergarden or pre-school? Do they learn to the proper use of lubes and oils or is that left for the parents or television to teach? Do we make sure they know to cuddle afterward even though Yo Gabba Gabba might be coming on? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 12:04:31 AM |
Some questions though: When exactly do you think mommy and daddy government ought to start teaching little Bobby and little Susie to use their condoms and IUDs? Kindergarden or pre-school? Do they learn to the proper use of lubes and oils or is that left for the parents or television to teach? Do we make sure they know to cuddle afterward even though Yo Gabba Gabba might be coming on?
You know if you'd actually read my post you'd realize nobody was advocating that, and sex education doesn't work that way. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 1:06:01 AM | I know that Charles, I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't read it. Sex education is supposed to be the job of parents (or at the very least a supplement to the school variety), but apparently is isn't working. Trying to tell a kid with raging hormones not to have sex is like trying to tell a junkie not to shoot up. I will say, I've read the data on Canada, and even Great Britain to a lesser extent (although their numbers are closer to yours than ours), and apparently you are doing something right that we aren't. Numbers I saw are showing that Canadian teens certainly aren't "doing it" any less than Americans. Earlier education is not a problem in my view, but you do have to consider we have always been much higher than you in the numbers department, and I really don't think Bush's "abstinence only" call was heeded by all that many realsitic sex educators (I may be wrong--I certainly haven't been everywhere). I was in my freshman year of high school before I got sex ed, my kids and the kids of their generation got it from 6th grade on, and it seems to be a bigger problem now.
I did find one very interesting comment on the data in one major study that may have some prudence here though:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html
The study did find, however, that across all of the focus countries, young people growing up in disadvantaged economic, familial and social circumstances are more likely than their better-off peers to engage in risky behavior and have a child during adolescence. It is true, therefore, that pregnancy and birth are more common among U.S. teens in part because the United States has a greater proportion of disadvantaged families. (While the United States has the highest per capita income of the study countries, it also has the highest percentage of its population who are poor.) However, at all socioeconomic levels, American teenagers are less likely than their peers in the other study countries to use contraceptives and more likely to have a child. For example, U.S. teenagers in the highest income subgroup have birthrates that are 14% higher than similar teenagers in Great Britain and rates that are higher than the overall teen birthrates in Sweden and France. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 3:29:49 AM | I wonder how many un-wed pregnant teens there are in the home schooled and Amish communities?.....
I wonder if the Amish school house teachers teach their students about "safe sex"? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 5:24:39 AM |
I wonder how many un-wed pregnant teens there are in the home schooled and Amish communities?.....
I wonder if the Amish school house teachers teach their students about "safe sex"?
Well this is a much more sensible comparison than between industrialized countries, or even states within the USA. I mean obviously the issues would be much closer between Amish communities and mainstream American communities. Perhaps you should base Americans science education program on them as well? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 5:33:12 AM | Industrialized countries, ok. How about China? Do they have lots of pregnant teens?
I'm just saying that the Amish are doing something correct when it comes to raising their children. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two from them. Plus there are not that many fore closers in the Amish community and they don't have much of a "carbon footprint' another plus...lol
Sex is literally plastered everywhere we look today. So of course young people are going to be curious and want to experiment more now then in the past. Being promiscuous is also more widely accepted as the "norm" these days then in the past. Young people are being conditioned at a very young age to accept the fact that sex is really nothing more then a leisure. You can show them the nastiest cases of STD's and that still wont defeat human curiosity. You can take a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.
I say yes to sex education. But don't expect the levels of teen pregnancy and teens getting std's to go down dramatically due to sex ed.
That first cigarette may have made you gag and cough. But in order to "look cool" you keep puffing them down. That first kiss however is almost hypnotic...It's like a drug to young people that keeps them coming back for another "hit". No matter what community or nation they come from.
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 8:02:55 AM |
.
China.
Abortions Surge in China; Officials Cite Poor Sex Education
Article Tools Sponsored By
By MARK McDONALD
Published: July 30, 2009
HONG KONG — More than 13 million abortions are performed each year in China, according to statistics disclosed by Chinese health officials on Thursday, a marked increase from 2003, the most recent statistics available.
The rate of abortion in China — about 24 abortions for every 1,000 women between the ages of 15 and 44 — is less than half that of the world’s highest rate. That is Russia’s, at 53.7 per 1,000, according to the United Nations Population Division. Some two million abortions are performed each year in Russia, which has a population of 142 million. China’s population is 1.3 billion.
But the rise in the numbers is significant. In a joint report, the World Health Organization and the Guttmacher Institute put the number of abortions in China in 2003 at 9 million, out of a total of 42 million worldwide that year.
Nearly half of the women who had abortions had not used any form of contraception, Ms. Wu said. About 60 percent of the women who have abortions are between 20 and 29 years old, and most are single.
Chinese officials said a low level of sex education among young people was the reason for the widespread use of abortion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/world/asia/31abortion.html
They think Sex Ed is the answer. May the USA could sell them some "abstinence only" courses... | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 9:46:08 AM | Teen pregnancy rates... Bush's fault? Or are there other factors's to be considered as even more influential?
Easy access to hardcore porn through the internet, for instance... Nah. That can't be a factor. Right? I'm sure that teaching kids abstinence (over how to put on a condom) is much more influential on teen pregnancy and STI rates than 10-15 years of anything goes on the Internet. It's a societal issue of much broader range than what's taught in sex-ed. Our moral compass is broken. (I'm not talking about religion. I mean morality. You don't have to be religious to be taught what's right and wrong. And it IS something that has to be taught.) Easily accessed porn is only a symptom of the overall permissiveness and entitlement attitudes that have infected our society.
Having said that, I'm all for a sex education that doesn't seem to encourage sexual activity, but abstinence only sex-ed isn't the answer to that. Abstinence has to be part of the curriculum though... As the only 100% fool proof method.
Also, I like porn. But I'm an adult. That's adult material. There is a strong argument for me being wrong in watching the stuff, too. But I am not influenced by it the way a young child can be.
Laying this issue at the feet of a presidential administration is not the most intelligent move. Never mind that the funding for abstinence only sex-ed programs started during Clinton's administration. The whole problem has been building gradually over the last 40 years. Fixing it isn't going to be easy. It has momentum. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 10:42:22 AM |
Laying this issue at the feet of a presidential administration is not the most intelligent move. Never mind that the funding for abstinence only sex-ed programs started during Clinton's administration. The whole problem has been building gradually over the last 40 years. Fixing it isn't going to be easy. It has momentum.
Personally I wonder exactly how many kids were even exposed to such teachings, and for how much time - especially when compared the the amount of time they spent watching R rated movies, reality TV shows, porn, etc... | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 7/31/2009 2:32:26 PM |
78outdoorsguy
I wonder how many un-wed pregnant teens there are in the home schooled and Amish communities?
Quite a few, although they don't remain unwed for long after a pregnancy is discovered. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/1/2009 8:15:28 AM |
Bush legacy ??? Are you serious ??? Try a Clinton legacy !!! When he told this country ...
Oral sex is not sex !!! ........ what do you think went on in our schools ???
Lot's of blow jobs .... that's what !!!
The next year ..... my Jr. High Schooler said to me ..... the girls are giving the boys oral sex .... and they think it's ok !!!
Look ... I wasn't a Bush fan ... and I'm middle conservative .... but Clinton did more damage on this topic ...than Bush !!!
Own up to it .............
The last time I checked a teen could not get pregnant from oral sex, why instead of trying to place blame can't we focus on the problems that lead to teen age pregnancy | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/1/2009 11:16:29 AM |
The last time I checked a teen could not get pregnant from oral sex, why instead of trying to place blame can't we focus on the problems that lead to teen age pregnancy
I think the poster is blaming the general increase in the lack of morals since the mid-90s. I think to some extint it is true. Stuff that shocked me when I was a teenager barely rasises an eyebrow with my kids. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/1/2009 12:44:35 PM |
I think the poster is blaming the general increase in the lack of morals since the mid-90s. I think to some extint it is true. Stuff that shocked me when I was a teenager barely rasises an eyebrow with my kids.
If that is the case then it leads to the question...
Since when is sex immoral?
It may be unwise to do so without birth control, unless you are planning to have a child, or without protection from STD's, but unwise is not immoral. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/1/2009 1:24:35 PM | The last time I checked a teen could not get pregnant from oral sex, why instead of trying to place blame can't we focus on the problems that lead to teen age pregnancy.
No - but you can get a pretty nasty case of herpes... I know a beautiful girl who gets one that stretches from her upper lip about halfway up her nose and about the same distance out towards her ear... All from having oral sex as a teen with the wrong older man...
It may be unwise to do so without birth control, unless you are planning to have a child, or without protection from STD's, but unwise is not immoral.
I wonder what you WOULD consider immoral for a CHILD? For example, where do you stand with regard to NAMBLA? The National Man Boy Love Alliance? Is that cool too? How about incest? Cool with that? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/1/2009 3:51:23 PM |
I wonder what you WOULD consider immoral for a CHILD?
Well... first off, CHILDREN don't usually have babies, for the most part they are not yet physically mature enough for that.
Like it or not, ADOLESCENTS are sexual beings, it's an undeniable fact. An ADOLESCENT having sex may not be wise (in general), it may not be responsible (depending on how it occurs) but it is not immoral.
For example, where do you stand with regard to NAMBLA? The National Man Boy Love Alliance? Is that cool too? How about incest? Cool with that?
Do you know what a logical fallacy is? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:16:31 PM |
Something else has changed. Many more teens are having babies on purpose. WHY the increase???
Because to outward appearances, mom (or aunt, or sister, or cousin or best friend) squeezed out a pup or two (or more) and got a place to stay, a monthly check, all the bills paid and free healthcare. On the surface, without doing any investigation into it, it looks like a pretty good deal. I guess you could call them tin-diggers. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/3/2009 10:28:09 PM | First time I was in sex ed. was seventh or eighth grade in 1988. We learned that girls were full of diseases like chlamydia, herpes and AIDS. If we were ever to want to have sex with them we'd have to use a condom or else our hoses would fall off. Even then, condoms could not fully prevent penile explosions upon entry of her hose hallway. I never had sex with a new girl without thinking about a condom. That may atest to the success of disease control of the nineties. They just scared the crap out of us into believing that making love wasn't a beautiful thing. I was SOS...Scared of sex. Nothing like beer to get over that fear. <----Beer goggles. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/4/2009 12:17:28 AM | Industrialized countries, ok. How about China? Do they have lots of pregnant teens?
Once again, rather than comparing American society to something sensible, like another first world nation, you're comparing it to China, where a great deal of it's population live on literally pennies.
I say yes to sex education. But don't expect the levels of teen pregnancy and teens getting std's to go down dramatically due to sex ed.
Well they have in countries that actually do it. Canada's is the lowest in three decades, adn lets be honest we have more sex on TV than ever before. Hell we have less control on day time TV than you guys do!
Personally I wonder exactly how many kids were even exposed to such teachings, and for how much time - especially when compared the the amount of time they spent watching R rated movies, reality TV shows, porn, etc...
Unless they were home schooled, all of them.
Because to outward appearances, mom (or aunt, or sister, or cousin or best friend) squeezed out a pup or two (or more) and got a place to stay, a monthly check, all the bills paid and free healthcare. On the surface, without doing any investigation into it, it looks like a pretty good deal. I guess you could call them tin-diggers./quote]
Yet countries with far better supports for unwed mothers don't have this problem. Seriously if this is the real cause of the issue there isn't anything to say other than Americans are just fundamentally stupid.
Which I don't think is true, I just think you're wrong about the reasoning. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/4/2009 8:06:39 AM |
Yet countries with far better supports for unwed mothers don't have this problem. Seriously if this is the real cause of the issue there isn't anything to say other than Americans are just fundamentally stupid.
Which I don't think is true, I just think you're wrong about the reasoning.
I'm not saying I'm 100% right about the cause, but if teens actually go out of their way to have kids (which is what the poster I replied to stated) then what else could it be?
I can't think of one fundamentally sound reason that would make a person look even remotely intelligent for having a baby as a teenager by choice. Unless married, finacially secure 18-19 year olds are a large percentage of the stats. | |
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