| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 7:34:04 AM |
So who do we blame for the Octomom's of the world?
I suppose that's Bush's fault too?
Or does your common sense tell you the welfare state is the more likely culprit?
Looks like socialism at it's best to me...
No, there are reckless and incompetent people everywhere, of all political stripes.
Do you have reason to believe that welfare workers dragged her to a fertility clinic where a corrupt and idiotic doctor (working, I'm sure, for the good of humanity--LOLOLOL) agreed to implant this mother of six with an army of fertilized eggs?
I think that blaming EITHER Bush OR "socialism" (the most currently abused and misunderstood word in the English language) for the spectacle of "octo-mom would be foolish. But I'll tell ya--it ain't socialism that is now going to reward her irresponsible idiocy with her own reality show.....forget welfare checks, CORPORATE television is setting her up for life in fine fashion. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:48:30 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
PROOF ........... You work hard in this country.............. You will succeed........ | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 6:15:53 PM |
I'm unconvinced that abstinence only sex-ed is responsible for the current upturn in teen pregnancies.
Abstinence is the only fool proof way to avoid pregnancy. Even Sarah's daughter was aware of birth control prior to conceiving. I would find it extremely hard to believe that even one younger couple that was part of an abstinence only program was unaware of the purpose of condoms. They just chose to take the dive unprotected, caught up in the moment I suppose. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:22:45 PM |
Abstinence is the only fool proof way to avoid pregnancy. Even Sarah's daughter was aware of birth control prior to conceiving. I would find it extremely hard to believe that even one younger couple that was part of an abstinence only program was unaware of the purpose of condoms. They just chose to take the dive unprotected, caught up in the moment I suppose.
Then why has study after study, and research and freaking HISTORY shown that education based on birth control reduces teen pregnancy vs Abstinence?
Saying abstinence is the only fool poof way to avoid pregnancy is like attempting to teach drivers training by stating you should never get into your car. While it's true it isn't productive and it certainly doesn't make you a safer driver. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:46:41 PM |
Abstinence is the only fool proof way to avoid pregnancy. Even Sarah's daughter was aware of birth control prior to conceiving. I would find it extremely hard to believe that even one younger couple that was part of an abstinence only program was unaware of the purpose of condoms. They just chose to take the dive unprotected, caught up in the moment I suppose.
I agree that even teens who have had only abstinence only sex ed know about birth control. They certainly know where babies come from and how they are made. My conclusion is that many (if not most) teens that have and keep babies got pregnant on purpose, or didn't care if they got pregnant. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:54:14 PM |
I agree that even teens who have had only abstinence only sex ed know about birth control. They certainly know where babies come from and how they are made. My conclusion is that many (if not most) teens that have and keep babies got pregnant on purpose, or didn't care if they got pregnant.
and yet, education in this area has been shown time and again to work. So your conclusion is flawed. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:11:42 PM | My nephew (top of his class...very bright) was taught about condoms...he was taught they don't work...they break all the time.
Sometimes there is a difference between education and truth. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:41:03 PM |
My nephew (top of his class...very bright) was taught about condoms...he was taught they don't work...they break all the time.
Sometimes there is a difference between education and truth.
That's pretty much abstinence only education right there. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 12:46:19 PM |
Saying abstinence is the only fool poof way to avoid pregnancy is like attempting to teach drivers training by stating you should never get into your car. While it's true it isn't productive and it certainly doesn't make you a safer driver.
This is an assinine comparison....try again
Saying abstinence is the only fool poof way to avoid pregnancy is like (FACT). | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 1:09:09 PM | And the only fool proof way to avoid being in an automobile accident is to avoid getting in a vehicle.
I don't see how the comparison is anything but apt. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 3:03:48 PM |
Abstinence is the only fool proof way to avoid pregnancy. Even Sarah's daughter was aware of birth control prior to conceiving. I would find it extremely hard to believe that even one younger couple that was part of an abstinence only program was unaware of the purpose of condoms. They just chose to take the dive unprotected, caught up in the moment I suppose.
Well, certainly if you are taught that having sex is the sure road to hell and that everyone will be so disappointed in you if you do it and all good girls and boys wear purity rings and Christ hates people who screw....then you are MUCH less likely to be equipped for those times when you get "caught up in the moment." Unless you think the condom fairy will just drop one onto the car seat for these little sinners' use when their urges come....as they INEVITABLY will. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 6:53:27 PM |
And the only fool proof way to avoid being in an automobile accident is to avoid getting in a vehicle.
You can get hit by a car walking down the road, or riding a bicycle. But you sure can't get pregnant walking by a boner  My only point earlier is that everyone is well aware of safe sex practice, they just don't chose to utilize their knowledge. And the only way you can blame Bush for teen pregnancy is if he is porking teenagers
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 7:35:39 PM |
My only point earlier is that everyone is well aware of safe sex practice, they just don't chose to utilize their knowledge.
^^^ Well that being the case, I assume that you would welcome not ONLY sex education in American classrooms (just to make SURE that students are "well aware of safe sex practice") but ALSO making condoms available in schools in order to make it easier for them to "chose" (sic) safe sex? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/13/2009 8:47:54 PM | This is an assinine comparison....try again
Saying abstinence is the only fool poof way to avoid pregnancy is like (FACT).
It's also a fact that the only 100% complete way to never get into a car accident is to never enter a car (fact).
You can get hit by a car walking down the road, or riding a bicycle.
You can get raped.
And the only way you can blame Bush for teen pregnancy is if he is porking teenagers
No thats the only way to can blame Bush for anything, and if you caught him on video doing it you'd probably somehow pretend that wasn't his fault either. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 7:48:54 AM |
Well that being the case, I assume that you would welcome not ONLY sex education in American classrooms (just to make SURE that students are "well aware of safe sex practice") but ALSO making condoms available in schools in order to make it easier for them to "chose" (sic) safe sex?
Did I ever say I was against sex education?? All I ever actually said is that abstinece is the only guarantee of not getting pregnant. I'm not for giving away free condoms in the schools, but thats just me.... I am curious though which level of school do you think these free condoms should be offered, elementary, middle or high school? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 9:26:01 AM |
Didn't see this one coming. Hey way to increase the number of abortions there Republicans. Great. We've discovered a way to blame even this on Bush. Tell me, are long nights and overtime required to conjure up such crap? There are countless possible causes for the rise.
I gained 10lbs during the Bush administration. Damn him. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:52:48 AM |
Didn't see this one coming. Hey way to increase the number of abortions there Republicans.
Great. We've discovered a way to blame even this on Bush. Tell me, are long nights and overtime required to conjure up such crap? There are countless possible causes for the rise.
Since the Bush administration and its Christian right supporters actively promoted (and promote) teen pregnancy, it isn't difficult to see the link AT LEAST between their policies and the rise teen pregnancy (which sometimes leads to abortion).
I gained 10lbs during the Bush administration. Damn him.
he he. Well, emotional distress CAN cause one to over eat. ;) | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 5:11:59 PM |
Since the Bush administration and its Christian right supporters actively promoted (and promote) teen pregnancy, it isn't difficult to see the link AT LEAST between their policies and the rise teen pregnancy (which sometimes leads to abortion). To claim that the Christian right actively promotes teen pregnancy is ludicrous and frankly insulting.
Simply because we conservatives do n0t condone abortion--and have tirelessly fought to reverse Rove vs Wade, doesn't mean that we promote teen pregnancy.
I gained 10lbs during the Bush administration. Damn him.
he he. Well, emotional distress CAN cause one to over eat. ;)
Well played. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 5:23:56 PM |
Simply because we conservatives do n0t condone abortion--and have tirelessly fought to reverse Rove vs Wade, doesn't mean that we promote teen pregnancy.
Okay, maybe I'm just bored, but.....Huh?
The whole topic was about "Abstinence Only" sex education. Yours was the first mention of abortion (and for God's sakes lets not go down that road yet again).
The argument put up is that making abstinence the only form of birth control allowed to be discussed in sex education has resulted in an increase in teen pregnancy. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 8:51:29 PM |
The whole topic was about "Abstinence Only" sex education. Yours was the first mention of abortion (and for God's sakes lets not go down that road yet again).
The argument put up is that making abstinence the only form of birth control allowed to be discussed in sex education has resulted in an increase in teen pregnancy.
Abstinence is the only moral choice that leads to decrease in teen pregnancy.
We could all get creative and conjure up nine kinds of methods that could decrease the teen pregnancy rate but the bottom line is:
Moral depravity will have consequences.
One of which is teen pregnancy. Choosing to ignore that fact and carry on with fruitless ideas to combat those consequences are, as we have all seen, both
inadequate and incompetent.
But let us continue trying with the same moronic ideas and see if they will some day pan out...oh wait! I think that's the definition of insanity.. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:05:17 PM | There's a difference between teaching abstinence ...
And teaching ... life and death !!!
Maybe ... we should ... shift the focus ???
............................................................................. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/15/2009 12:18:03 AM | Great. We've discovered a way to blame even this on Bush. Tell me, are long nights and overtime required to conjure up such crap? There are countless possible causes for the rise.
Give me a reasonable one.
Abstinence is the only moral choice that leads to decrease in teen pregnancy.
It's a moral choice that results in no pregnancy, as an educational method it's been shown time and again to be a immoral choice to produce more pregnant teenagers. | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/15/2009 1:26:34 AM |
Abstinence is the only moral choice that leads to decrease in teen pregnancy.
That's interesting language, because I consider my attitude to be based on a moral agenda. My MORAL position is that it is in the best interests of young people to equip them and educate them for the pressures that they are going to experience and the lives they are going to lead. And with particular regard to young women, I consider it absolutely MORALLY right that they should be equipped to avoid the hardship of an unwanted pregnancy, especially when they are young enough that IT could contribute to depriving them of making choices best for THEM in their longer lives--exactly BECAUSE their decisions as teens will effect them for their entire lives.. SEX is natural--it is NOT, in itself, immoral. Intentionally depriving women of the means and/or knowledge to control their reproductive systems because of some religious agenda that they may or may not embrace (as is their right!) IS immoral, in my view. You might not agree with me--but that does not make your POV more MORAL than mine.
We could all get creative and conjure up nine kinds of methods that could decrease the teen pregnancy rate but the bottom line is:
Moral depravity will have consequences.
One of which is teen pregnancy. Choosing to ignore that fact and carry on with fruitless ideas to combat those consequences are, as we have all seen, both
inadequate and incompetent.
But the problem is that while YOU seem to believe that you KNOW what moral depravity is, OTHER people have the goal of equipping people to make their OWN moral choices, and yet navigate THIS life in some kind of productive way irrespective of whether or not everyone would necessarily agree with them...or EVEN irrespective of the idea some have of eternal damnation or similar. In the REAL world people have impulses that they follow irrespective of what their preacher (if they care to have one) might sanction or not. Is it not MORAL to consider the possibility that a young woman expressing her love (as she sees it) shouldn't necessarily, thus, sacrifice her autonomy due to a moment's weakness (or even a moment's STRENGTH that some people who have NOTHING to do with her life might disapprove of)? The way I see it, people banging this abstinence only drum WANT every fifteen year old who gives way to her sexual desire to GET PREGNANT or get AIDS--to SUFFER the consequences (for surely hellfire won't be enough punishment????). Honestly, how does THAT qualify as "Christian" compassion? How is THAT morality? And since when does making love qualify as "moral depravity"?
But let us continue trying with the same moronic ideas and see if they will some day pan out...oh wait! I think that's the definition of insanity.
No...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Since moral judgments regarding human sexuality (and most especially FEMALE sexuality) were first introduce into human civilization... nevertheless, women have had SEX (shock) outside of marriage (along with MEN who are MUCH less, historically, burdened by that reality). At what point do we just freakin' ACCEPT that and think--hmmmm, maybe they are gonna have SEX. WOW! NEXT!? | |
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| The Bush legacy: Pregnant teens.
Posted: 8/16/2009 10:12:29 AM | Give me a reasonable one. Changes in our culture,(surprisingly not Bush). No one can argue that movies like Juno have effected our youth's view of pregnancy. Also, as a mother of a two teens I can assure you that compared to when I was a teen, there is much more risk-taking among teens today.
Besides, the same data showed that last year also had record high rates for for Caesarean deliveries. Bush must be butcher happy, too.
*Federal health experts said they don't know why the teen pregnancy numbers went up from 2005 to 2006, and that not enough data have been collected to say whether it's a trend.
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/071205/teen-birth-rates-up-for-first-time-in-14-years-us-reports.htm
It's a moral choice that results in no pregnancy, as an educational method it's been shown time and again to be a immoral choice to produce more pregnant teenagers. So what you're saying then is the moral choice is whichever method is effective? Since abstinence is ineffective (in your opinion) we should modify morality to best suit our goal? Tell me, Charlie, what if we discovered tonight that ------ (fill in the blank) will have 100% success rate in eliminating all unwanted pregnancy.
What if the method was barbaric? Would you still support it? I do not think so.
Morality can not be modified. | |
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