| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 5:35:15 AM |
There is a new bill trying to be past: You must take a drug test before receiving welfare which only the beginning.
That is an excellent idea. Can you imagine how much more money would be available to those who need it the most if the system cut out all the druggies?
But then of course there would be the people who'd just stop smoking for a few days before the test to pass it, unless the state opted to do a hair folicle test.
When my friend was pregnant she fell on some hard times and applied for food stamps. She waited down there for 3 hours to see if she could get emergency food stamps. There was a middle aged guy down there, and she overheard him talking to his friend. He said that he did not have kids, did not work, but had just gotten approved for $100 worth of emergency food stamps. She thought surely she'd get some since he had, because she obviously needed them more, being pregnant. She was turned down for emergency food stamps (But I don't remember why, it certainly was not due to her income) but yet this guy who has no children to feed got them. She did eventually get them, but it's messed up that the person with no children got them yet the person who is eating for 2 did not get them. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:09:07 AM | "If welfare weren't there for them (teens) in the first place, they'd have to think, or maybe think about not having babies until they can afford them."
Yes, futureshock, I would have to agree with you there. Otherwise, I'm sure there would be a few considering abstinence, using a condom, or maybe even going through the "trouble" of taking a pill once a day or getting a "shot" once a month. From what I see, some teenagers just really don't care at all if they get pregnant. Some seem very intentional.
Many are well aware of the fact that their young boyfriends can't support them and their baby, nor can/will the parents ... but they do know there is welfare. There are also those who do get welfare because they are not claiming their boyfriend's income or even the fact that he lives there, or claiming the financial aid from their parents. These are the ones who are truly abusing the system.
As for drug-testing welfare recipients, what about the children of the users? Unless the government goes all the way and removes the children from the homes, it is not reasonable to cut them off. (And there are serious shortages of decent foster homes, which are far more costly than the original welfare cheque being "saved". In fact, here in Alberta, for three kids in foster care would mean close to $1100 per month, per child to the foster home. Let alone all the associated costs of visitation and such.
Welfare itself has many flaws. They do require a person to be destitute before they will help out. Some people only need help for a couple months to get back on their feet and keep their homes, but they force the honest ones to lose everything first.
Yet, some workers will cut a cheque the same day for someone who goes in there with a sob story ... who are doing it as a "joke" or just to get some extra gambling/drinking money ... It all doesn't make sense sometimes...
The whole system needs restructuring ... but, like someone else said ... with every system there will be people who will abuse it! (Like the Unemployment Insurance, like people "double-dipping" into a company's LOA allowance ... (two people working for the same company claiming to be single and have residences elsewhere ... getting a "bonus" of around $5000 per month) etc etc. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 8:32:09 AM |
I say: As long as there is "do gooders" that say, oh poor them, they don't know any better, its sad, lets stop picking on them and help them, lets make it easier for them, just like their parents did for them "gave them everything they wanted and if they didn't get it, they screamed until they received"..
I say: People should stop listening to the annoying bloody "do gooders".. There is a difference between helping people, and assisting their laziness.. Well ok, I agree to a certain extent, but not all people on welfare are lazy. I do think a civilized society needs a safety net of some sort.
G'day Future,
I wasn't talking about those that genuinely deserve welfare with the above comment.. I was talking about those that abuse it and then have "do gooders" making excuses for them as to why they can't help themselves..etc..
Another catch 22 about welfare and abuse of is..
If you cut these people off welfare, the likely hood of them actually working is very slim. They will simply resort to crime to gain an income. So either pay them money and forget about them or have crime rates increase, more homes broken into and businesses robbed etc. I know I would rather let them have some of my tax dollars than have them breaking into my house and costing me more money with increases in insurance, rises in tax to pay for extra policing and so on.. Its actually cheaper to just pay and forget.. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 10:13:42 AM |
G'day Future,
That greeting put a big smile on my face, lol!
I wasn't talking about those that genuinely deserve welfare with the above comment.. I was talking about those that abuse it and then have "do gooders" making excuses for them as to why they can't help themselves..etc..
Oh, ok, gotcha, my mistake.
Another catch 22 about welfare and abuse of is..
If you cut these people off welfare, the likely hood of them actually working is very slim. They will simply resort to crime to gain an income. So either pay them money and forget about them or have crime rates increase, more homes broken into and businesses robbed etc. I know I would rather let them have some of my tax dollars than have them breaking into my house and costing me more money with increases in insurance, rises in tax to pay for extra policing and so on.. Its actually cheaper to just pay and forget..
I did not think of this aspect of it. I have to agree with your logic here. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:12:05 PM | | First I had my own contracting business when I had my handicapped son ( which is a medical mistake) , my son was kicked out of daycare and no one wanted to watch him because he could not do much back then on his own he needed 24/7 care, I had to leave everything i worked so hard to gain behind and care for my own child. and second, my tubes were supposed to be tired, burned and snipped when I got pregnant with my second child but some crooked ass doctor didn't do their job correctly and I have a second child. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:33:25 PM |
First I had my own contracting business when I had my handicapped son ( which is a medical mistake) , my son was kicked out of daycare and no one wanted to watch him because he could not do much back then on his own he needed 24/7 care, I had to leave everything i worked so hard to gain behind and care for my own child. and second, my tubes were supposed to be tired, burned and snipped when I got pregnant with my second child but some crooked ass doctor didn't do their job correctly and I have a second child.
I hope you sued that doctor that harmed your son. That is horrible. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:38:14 PM | Here are the statistics on welfare recipients:
Traits of families on AFDC (1)
Race
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White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4
Time on AFDC
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Less than 7 months 19.0%
7 to 12 months 15.2
One to two years 19.3
Two to five years 26.9
Over five years 19.6
Number of children
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One 43.2%
Two 30.7
Three 15.8
Four or more 10.3
Age of Mother
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Teenager 7.6%
20 - 29 47.9
30 - 39 32.7
40 or older 11.8
Divorced or separated 46.5% 28.6
Deceased 5.0 1.6
Unemployed or Disabled 14.3 9.0
Not married to mother 31.5 55.3
Other or Unknown 2.7 5.5
Notes on teenagers
As the statistics show, teenage mothers comprise a very small part of the welfare population. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:41:41 PM |
As the statistics show, teenage mothers comprise a very small part of the welfare population.
That is only because teen mothers are a tiny minority. Most teens manage to get to adulthood without becoming parents. It doesn't change the fact that 80% of teen mothers use welfare at some point. Women who start out on welfare as teens stay on it longer than women who start out on welfare as adults. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 3:43:07 PM | | Not yet I could not because my son has never been diagnosed until July 15 th 2009 it took one doctor out of 12 yrs to diagnose him and even the neruo told me to sue the doctor and hospital , the hospital has all of a sudden lost all my son's birth records | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 4:16:50 PM | Maybe it's different in different states, but minors are not allowed to go on welfare. If a person under 18 has a child, their parent would have to go on welfare if it was needed. Otherwise, the parent is the one paying the bills. Also, if the parents kick the child out and then she tries to go on welfare, she can't. Someone under 18 can't apply. They have to get a relative to apply for them.
Let's say the girl goes to live with her aunt. The aunt then has to file child support against her sister/brother because the pregnant girl is still the responsibility of her parents.
At least, that's the way it is in MD.... | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 4:21:40 PM | ^^^^
That's the way it is here in Ohio. My sister had my nephew at 15 and I remember my mom having to go with her to get the DNA test done for his dad..She did not get on welfare though, she went to work and my mom helped out a lot too. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:30:55 PM |
That's the way it is here in Ohio. My sister had my nephew at 15 and I remember my mom having to go with her to get the DNA test done for his dad..She did not get on welfare though, she went to work and my mom helped out a lot too.
WHY would a 15 year year old ever want to have a baby? | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:43:28 PM |
That is an excellent idea. Can you imagine how much more money would be available to those who need it the most if the system cut out all the druggies?
Considering that drug testing is expensive, and no more (percentage wise) people on assistance use drugs than the general population, I don't think it would "save loads of money". It would be fiscally irresponsible to drug test every person applying for assistance. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:48:39 PM |
Maybe it's different in different states, but minors are not allowed to go on welfare. If a person under 18 has a child, their parent would have to go on welfare if it was needed. Otherwise, the parent is the one paying the bills. Also, if the parents kick the child out and then she tries to go on welfare, she can't. Someone under 18 can't apply. They have to get a relative to apply for them.
I work in this field with this population. I have clients as young as 14. So, this must be different for each state. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:53:20 PM | | in new brunswick canada a minor can receive assistance, however if they are under 16 they both require their parents permission to not be living in the family home (which is hardest to get in the cases where there are legitimate reasons for them not to live there...if they are fleeing their abusive parents etc), and they also must have an evaluation done by a social worker to show that there is both reason for them not to be living with family but to also show that their alternate living arrangments are suitable, prior to them receiving assistance. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:55:24 PM | | Personally, I believe that the system is, unfortunately, set up so that the only way to benefit is to abuse it. For many who have pride and a work ethic, though, it is not an alternative. I try not to judge, but the truth is that my only experience is that the system serves those who possess either laziness, a sense of entitlement, or have been raised to think this is a way of life. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 6:56:12 PM |
I work in this field with this population. I have clients as young as 14. So, this must be different for each state.
I find your job fascinating. Someday I'd love to discuss it more with you, maybe over email, if you would be ok with that. I don't want to know anything about anyone personally, I'm just interested in your general perceptions, etc. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:02:51 PM |
I try not to judge, but the truth is that my only experience is that the system serves those who possess either laziness, a sense of entitlement, or have been raised to think this is a way of life.
Ouch. You truly cannot imagine a situation where a person cannot find employment and needs assistance
for even a short period of time? I'll give you an example:
A man gets a divorce and sees his child summers, school vacations, etc. He does not live in the same city as the custodial parent. One summer, fall is approaching and the mother is moving, cannot get settled in time to take child back for school. The man's job changes and he has to keep his son and enroll him in school. The child is only 6. The new job won't let the man have time to take the child to school in the morning, arrange for daycare, etc., things fall through and he gets fired. He needs welfare as an emergency until he gets a new job that has hours which allow him to get his son to daycare, school, etc. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 7:12:37 PM | | That would be great, future. There's so much I'd love to say on the topic, but I don't feel right doing it in such a public setting. I'm sure I have clients on POF (I KNOW I do, in fact...funny, funny story). I've drawn welfare and been enrolled in the program I work for. I drew Temporary Assistance for under a year after I had my first son. I was on it while I finished my certification. I was lucky that I lived in a house my sister owned; therefore, I did not need to pay rent. But still the piddly amount I received was not enough to pay my gas bill, electric bill, and necesseties for LIVING. I was lucky to have a good support system at that time in my life. I canNOT imagine how so many people make a "living" off of cash assistance; however, the cash assistance along with foodstamps, subsidized housing, utility assistance, state paid daycare, Medicaid, etc. can really add up. Some of my clients, after adding all that up, make more than I do and I work my ass off! So, you can see how it can be difficult to motivate someone to get off the system and obtain self sufficiency. Change is hard. Being at the bottom can feel safe because as you start working your way up you lose assistance, you notice that there is no safety net, and now looking down you realize you're not at the bottom anymore and you have further to fall. Change can be scary. Now I work for the program that I was once enrolled in. I have the unique position of seeing how the program works from both sides of my desk. My feelings on the system go back and forth depending on the clients situation and what they're doing to make the most out of it to move forward. It's rough seeing people in this poplution who feel knocked down by life circumstances, stagnant, and not taking any steps forward. A lot of it has to do with fear of the unknown. For some, poverty is all they've known. Poverty was the only thing I had ever known. I look down now and realize I've climbed higher and higher and I pray that I don't fall, because if I do it's going to hurt somethign fierce. But being a single mom in a precarious economy, who's to say that I may not fall on hard times and need to reach out for assistance again one day. I pray, pray, pray I don't. Some do take advantage, of course. Oh my, do they ever. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/3/2009 8:18:06 PM | If the non custodial parent would help take care of the child(ren) it would help a lot of single parents out with not having to be on the system or rely on it, Here were I live if you don't pay your c/s your supposed to either loose your license or go to jail but the law sucks and don't follow by it so many people have to rely on someone to help them out.
Great example for you: I have a 5 1/2 month old son I filed court papers for c/s when he was 2 months old , I just received 3 days ago a letter that states that my case will be heard in the near future WTF you mean near future so if the state would get there s**t together and go after the non custodial parent maybe things wouldn't be so bad for some of us single parents, I admit there are some people that do milk the cow dry but don't categorize everyone.
Thank god I have family and friends that help me out and I know longer have to be on the system.
One more thing welfare does not make it easy to get off it either you can get a p/t job and they cut your benefits so many people quit the job to go back to the system because they need the help. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/4/2009 6:05:59 AM | G'day Future,
Glad I brought a smile to your face :) Its amazing how a pleasant greeting can brighten your day ;)
Here were I live if you don't pay your c/s your supposed to either loose your license or go to jail but the law sucks and don't follow by it so many people have to rely on someone to help them out.
Geez, that's a bit harsh don't you think?
Lets see, loss of license likely to lead to loss of job, leads to no money = no C/S
Jail time = loss of job, no money = no C/S
Honestly, what does that system achieve other than giving people criminal records and making more people welfare dependent? Is that one sided? Does the same happen if the woman is the non custodial parent?
My daughter lives with me and see's her mum two days a week.. I go to uni and work part-time, why can't other single parents do the same rather than relying on the other parent to support them? I don't get money from my ex for C/S and I certainly don't expect it either.
In Australia, if the non custodial parent does not pay C/S, then, the CSA takes their tax return money, investigates earnings etc and the person acquires a debt that does not go away. But there are still ways around it.. Honestly, life is too short to be quarreling over C/S payments. Its better to simply move on as though the other parent has died and support your child yourself like thousands of other people do. I just really don't see the point in hounding someone for 18 years for support payments.. Its far more satisfying to know that you have made it on your own, earned your own money and raised your child the best you can without them sensing the negativity that comes with worrying about receiving C/S from an ex that doesn't pay.
People really need to learn how to move on and put things behind them and make the best of what they have. Holding onto resentment, bitterness etc. has a huge impact on a persons health and well-being and also affects those around them. Yes, I agree that its not right to avoid paying for your child's costs but, its also not worth the effort battling in courts etc. in an attempt to try and receive it.
Anyway, thats a whole other topic.. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/4/2009 7:38:15 AM |
WHY would a 15 year year old ever want to have a baby
I don't think she exactly planned him..I think she had the typical teenage "it won't happen to me" attitude. My mom would have supported her if she had chosen to give him up for adoption, but she didn't. She chose to have him and finish school. Now she's married with 2 additional children, and is a licensed massage therapist. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/4/2009 8:04:55 AM | I don't think she exactly planned him..I think she had the typical teenage "it won't happen to me" attitude. My mom would have supported her if she had chosen to give him up for adoption, but she didn't.
I really don't believe most teens when they say they didn't plan to have a baby. They know how babies are made. I get even more suspicious when the teen won't have an abortion or put the child up for adoption.
Why was she having sex at such a young age, especially unprotected sex?
(I don't mean to be singling your sister out. These are questions I have for all teens in her situation.) | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/4/2009 8:42:18 AM | | Heck if I know. She was educated and talked to about how to protect herself, as we all were.She chose not to use those forms of protection and ended up pregnant. Like I said, she probably didn't think it could happen to her. | |
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| Defining the Term Abusing the System Regarding Welfare
Posted: 8/4/2009 11:16:08 AM |
Heck if I know. She was educated and talked to about how to protect herself, as we all were.She chose not to use those forms of protection and ended up pregnant. Like I said, she probably didn't think it could happen to her.
It's hard to impart knowledge when faced with the famed teenage "invulnerability" myth that most of them live under. There's a good area of research, finding a way to penetrate the teenage brain through the wall of denial. | |
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