| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/7/2009 9:59:37 PM |
What are you saying Rock man? You don't think a man should pay on the first date?
I would never date someone like you, so my answer to that question really doesn't help you at all in this situation. Not that you would understand it in the first place.
I don't think either person "should" be expected to pay for the other. How's that?
Then again when I refer to old fashion values, they apply to what I give, not what I think I deserve or think I'm entitled to.
I am in no position to state that all men should do anything other then make their own decisions. That would be the same as commenting about how you should have offered to pay for your own meal, or at least leave the tip.
Just because the women I have dated had enough class to offer doesn't mean all women "should". | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/7/2009 10:09:45 PM | | Have to agree with Rock Man here. Maybe it wasn't classy to ask for money but walking out on someone instead of explaining your position is even more low class and arrogant. Someone's going to be single a looooooonnnnngggg time I think. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:14:03 AM | dine68 I hope you blow off the bitter commets and stick to your guns. I applaud you, sistah, straight up, he was a cheapo and he lacked grace and class. You rock! | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 1:06:33 AM | Thank you danish! I have blown off the bitter comments and that's all they are - BITTER. And most people I've spoken to off line have agreed with me.
Oh and to this Rock Man - Dude - I wouldn't date you either so the feeling is MUTUAL. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 6:08:35 AM | Sorry for ya, but for others that read..
3 is the limit..
I thought I had a good fish through im's and calls, and low and behold first date night, a customer "adds-on" a few hours of work...I cancelled
Date 2... second thing..but she calls and hears equipment in background...I asked if we could move 7pm til 9pm...She says, No.... but you Better be there next time.|Talk to u tonight.
I was also on the end of a good one (we dated several months) that had to cancel twice in a row, because busy (2 jobs, and helps alot with family matters)
Some of us...especially solo parents have busy schedules(good reason for internet dating)...but 3 has got to be the rule.. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 7:21:03 AM | Sorry Dine68, you dropped the ball on this one, the rhetoric about being old fashioned is just that rhetoric, you cant compare your parents relationship to today life,you have to remember they were part of a different generation ,We also tend to have a rather idyllic vision of how marriages used to go.
If you dated frequently like you claimed you have you would of seen the signs and know the difference between a first meeting and a date
As aforementioned You need to know the difference between a first meeting a date, that's the problem with some online daters , they think just because you email or talk to each other on the phone and things seem fine, and set up a initial introduction it should be a date?
The first meeting should something simple as a coffee,drink,walk,hike, to see if there is any connection to go on a date.
You said you've had conversation with this guy you couldn't tell by the conversation he was a cheapo? wouldn't you of discussed the etiquette of dating according to each other? I can only speak for my self but if im speaking to a woman and she expects us to meet after talking once or twice and the first thing she says is lets meet for dinner, right there for me its a red flag, because she probably the type that goes out 5 times a week on dates for a free meal. Those ladies I avoid like a hip hop artist at a broke back mountain dance party.
I know after the initial meeting if there is chemistry and there is a date, I dont have a problem paying, because I can and I feel weird having a woman pay for me or go dutch, I wont let my sisters pay for me or dutch when im out with them.
Two wrongs do make a right, you were wrong in walking out without a explanation and then expected this guy to pay, especially when he flaked out on you twice, RED FLAG, Im suspecting your communication skills were lacking in this situation. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 8:03:38 AM | ~The Rock Man~- Just because the women I have dated had enough class to offer doesn't mean all women "should".
The vast majority of the women I have dated during the past 3 years have not offered to pay, at least not in the first few dates. I can think of maybe one that did.
I don't see it as a matter of them lacking "class" as much as these women sort of following old fashioned values and expecting the male to fill the role as the provider. And I don't mind in the least however at some point in a relationship I do expect the woman to step up to the plate...and by that I don't mean they have to "pay for dinner". A home cooked meal once in a while works fine for me.
To suggest that it's a lack of class on the part of the woman is really saying a lot more about yourself than about them. As well as this needless flaming post:
The Rock Man~-I would never date someone like you, so my answer to that question really doesn't help you at all in this situation. Not that you would understand it in the first place.
"Just say'en" | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 8:44:12 AM | | Could this man be putting you on the back burner as he checks pof women he meets face-to-face off his list? Personally, I would wait for him to re-schedule and give it only one more shot...otherwise move on....there is lots of fish in the sea...lol | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:31:12 AM | | Sorry Mahgony Rush - but you're WRONG. HE was the one who wanted to meet after talking and emailing after a few times and HE was the one who suggested that we meet for dinner. I would have been just fine meeting for coffee. And, no - he didn't show any signs of being cheap. When he discussed things he did in his free time - most of them took money to do it. In regards to being old fashioned in who pays for a first date - you might be right. I was always taught that the man gets offended when you offer to pay. But, since we're in the year 2009 - obviously things have changed and I will act accordingly on the next date. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:39:30 AM | | dine68, don't change because of a couple flaming posts on PoF. Change your methodology if your heart tells you to. Feel out each situation. If a man is truly in to you, he won't be nickel and dime'ing you...thinking you a gold-digger if you are expecting him to pay over a $6 salad. People debate this topic to death on here. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:43:35 AM | Well We didn't exactly get the whole story from the beginning its like making mango chicken without the mangos you think?
Well you also made my point... any guy that wants to take you dinner first meeting, I would question his thinking, plus you stated he flaked out on you 2 other times, that's a red flag.
I know when im talking to someone and we meet for coffee and she tries to pay I look at that is she's independent, but i never let her pay , Ive been out to dinners and the woman offers to pay and I think thats sweet and I politely ask her to put her wallet away, your money no good here , I just think its nice that she offered, doesn't mean im going to let her pay, but i would know that before going out with her, and a lot of guys if they've been online for while knows there are women out there just wanting a free meal.
Danishsweetbread, im not sure if you know what youre talking about? this has nothing to do with gold digging, she has a belief passed down from her parents and misread some hump on a date which turns out he's a loser and she needs to learn how to pick about these losers. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:50:48 AM | | Free meal? paying for gas, carving a chunk of time out of a busy schedule? It is actually a choice that impacts somebody's day. I'd rather pay for it myself than waste my time with somebody working up a sweat over a $6 dollar salad and fainting over a $2 coke. And enjoy the company of my 12 year old nephew over a confused 35 year old. Just sayin'. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:10:19 AM |
To suggest that it's a lack of class on the part of the woman is really saying a lot more about yourself than about them.
Your right it suggest that I only date women of class and know how to find them in this insane world of "free meals" filled with red flags.
Most women agree that if you damn well know a date is going no where, you should have enough self respect to pay for your own meal. Rather then use the bill at the end of the meal as an excuse to run off in such a manner.
As well as this needless flaming post:
Flaming? Joke with someone who doesn't know the difference or someone who hasn't read your postings. Mr. kettle.
It's all very much in black and white in this thread.
Why would anyone think the op would understand my post after reading about her concepts and use of words like "humble" or "old fashion values"?
When I questioned her definition of humility, she somehow connected it with whether or not I think men "should" pay for a date..
And I do not date women that feel that stating she has "old fashion values" entitles her to yet "another" free meal! Because like this thread, she quickly showed how fast those "values" are thrown out the window when ever it's convenient!
If you find the op's actions and behaviour at the end of the date to be any where in the neighborhood or "humble" or "classy" or having displayed any of those "old fashion values" we simply date different types or women! | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:19:53 AM | ~The Rock Man~-And I do not date women that feel that stating she has "old fashion values" entitles her to yet "another" free meal! Because like this thread, she quickly showed how fast those "values" are thrown out the window when ever it's convenient!
If you find the op's actions and behaviour at the end of the date to be any where in the neighborhood or "humble" or "classy" or having displayed any of those "old fashion values" we simply date different types or women!
Rock,
I don't disagree with you- a date that is headed nowhere should not necessarily end with you paying, especially if it's a costly dinner...I have seen this time and time again, women who protest for "women's rights" are the first ones to find something else to do when the dinner check comes..however that situation can be completely avoided by making the first date a quick meeting for coffee or at a diner where the entire bill will be something less than $25. Suck it up, pay the tab, and find something more important to complain about.
An anecdotal story...I dated a woman from this site a couple of months back, we went out a half dozen times or so, and she never offered to pay. I liked her, my way is to focus on one woman at a time and treat her well..including me getting the tab the majority of the time...I suggested exclusivity and pulling the dating profiles until we see where it's going...she told me I was the nicest guy she ever met on this site but she was giving me mixed messages..I said "sure, take your time but I'm done paying for every meal that we have, next time how about you treat ME". She took real offense to this, she pulled the "old fashioned values card", and said "she thinks the guy should be the one who pays".
The conversation didn't end well, and neither did we...lol...
Again, I don't see it as a matter of 'class', more a matter of hypocrasy, assumption, and general "unfairness" on the part of women in general...but it's more the norm than the exception from my dating experiences and there have been many.
P.S. When you tell another member that you would never date them, you are attacking the person and not the argument. That's flaming... | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:46:21 AM | I think there is this primal reaction of some men that want to just stomp on and try to bash any woman who gently suggests that she believes a man should pay. Why? Well cause inside there is some insecurity and anger of some past situation. Really, why should it set somebody off like that? Who cares what someone thinks miles away?
Usually whenever somebody resorts to attacking the person, flaming away and saying "it's just a joke people" it is because there is no good argument coming forth.
It is all just a matter of preference, get on with it. | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:07:23 PM | P.S. When you tell another member that you would never date them, you are attacking the person and not the argument. That's flaming...
It was not an insult. I was just a basic fact after reading her posts! Posts that clearly shows her views on how dating should go and her willingness to act as she stated she did! Due to her comments and admitted behaviour, she has given me many reasons to make that statement! Our differences are that clear!
The op asked me a question personally! So I replied personally. The questions wasn't asked in general so my reply wasn't given in general!
The argument here is "behaviour" and a personal belief system that is used to defend it!
I find the op's post's to be like you commenting on my post as flaming. Hypocrisy at it's finest!
I am one that judges my own behaviour before I go around slandering someone else's.
If I had been offended enough to "comment" about a server getting stiffed and even claim that it is a red flag, I would have left a tip myself.
She comments "but did nothing" ! (that flag in now in her yard too!)
She insults the date several times by calling him "cheap" and then seems to think it justified her own behaviour at the end.. (that flag in now in her yard too!)
So I don't date people who say they stand for something when they obvously have nothing to show for it. If you have beliefs or values worthy of judging another with you had better be a good example yourself!
I don't accept people's comments when they come from using a sliding scale greased in their own favor!
Which is where my posting began in this thread. Questioning the use of the word "humble" than following it with insults, mockery and justification!
I think there is this primal reaction of some men that want to just stomp on and try to bash any woman who gently suggests that she believes a man should pay. Why? Well cause inside there is some insecurity and anger of some past situation. Really, why should it set somebody off like that? Who cares what someone thinks miles away?
You seem to conveniently leave out many statements that clearly show that many will pay for the dates with no questions asked! Until it is made clear that we are "EXPECTED" to!
Or that the conversation really isn't about the purchase of the meal! It's about behaviour/ expectations!
Gently suggests? That is clearly not how the op views it! It is expected!
That is the whole SOLUTION to that simple problem.
Once it goes from an offer to an expectation, it goes from being grateful to being entitled! Honey/vinegar? Request/demand?
Usually whenever somebody resorts to attacking the person, flaming away and saying "it's just a joke people" it is because there is no good argument coming forth.
Funny how the op didn't find anything to be flaming or attacking. Yet others have.
Which is a great way to avoid and derail the issue! | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:29:51 PM | ~The Rock Man~ -The argument here is "behaviour" and a personal belief system that is used to defend it!
Like I said I completely agree with you, we are basically saying the same thing for the most part..where we part ways is when you define this hypocrasy and personal belief system and expectations (that the man will treat) that most women seem to have (in my own personal dating experience) as having a "lack of class".
We're arguing semantics at this point not general philosophy about the men vs women paying for dinner, and expectations, etc..
This post below, by the Op, that totally set you off...I am in complete opposition to as well. I think she's out of line, in denial, and quite unreasonable. I will admit to having simply skimmed this thread the first time through and I missed the bulk of it.
Upon giving it a better read, her walking out on the guy after he asked her to pay, was in fact completely classless and way over the top.
So I guess you're right after all.
I wouldn't date her either..lol.
dine68 The bottom line - this guy is cheap. Now, first let me explain something - when a guy asks a girl on a FIRST date - in my humble opinion, he should pay for it. I'm old fashioned, my parent's have been married for 51 years and this is what I am used to. - when he's paying for the meal - he asks if I could help him pay for it - maybe pitch in for the tip. I look him straight in the eye and say no. I wait a beat of like two seconds and then I reach my hand across the table, tell him it was nice meeting him and walk out | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 7:28:17 PM | What is wrong with his behaviour? He had to do something for his aunt, and he was sick.... are you saying that your gut is telling you he is lying? Does everyone have to be lying because they cancel out on something? If so that is pretty pathetic.....if they are or pretty pathetic that ppl are quick to judge.
I am going to suggest that since you are questioning his actions then there is doubt for trust and since you have already invited a seed of negativity into this union before you even met then don't bother!! | |
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| 2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/8/2009 8:00:53 PM | You might not be the top of his priority list but I don't see him being flaky, nor has he wasted your time standing you up and all that. He had the decency to cancel it prior to your first meet at least.
If he wanna meet up again and you don't have better fish in sight/things to do, why not?  | |
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