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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:44:04 PM | SmilingSalmon ,
This is why Annette Martin is full of bologna. At best she simply got lucky. At worst , she weaseled her way into a genuine police investigation and managed to parlay it into a career fleecing people who don't have a skeptical bone in their bodies.
Annette Martin
Once an opera singer, Martin promotes herself as a "medical intuitive", a psychic detective, and a ghostbuster. As a detective, she runs a psychic detective agency called Closure4U. Sgt. Detective Richard Keaton of the Marin County Sheriff's Department vouches for her help in solving cases, notably the disappearance of an elderly former paratrooper named Dennis Prado. On a map, she circled a small area of a park in which he was believed to be, and he was found within that area, but as in so many "psychic detective" cases her reading did not actually lead to the discovery of Prado's body. Skeptic Joe Nickell pointed out to 48 Hours that Martin was able to draw lots of useful information from the police prior to drawing her circle.
As a medical intuitive, she channels the spirit of famed psychic healer Edgar Cayce.
Martin has had a long string of claimed successes over the past three decades, and has been involved with a few high-profile cases in California. Information on her cases is extremely sparse, and like Chris Robinson she doesn't record any of her predictions for future confirmation. She claims she foresaw the death of John Denver in a plane crash 15 years before it happened, when he came to her for a reading, but has nothing to back up her story. She can't even prove he consulted her.
Perhaps the strangest moment in Martin's career: She became the first psychic to testify in a criminal trial when she testified for the defense in the Susan Polk murder trial. Polk, a deeply disturbed and delusional woman, was representing herself after her lawyer's wife was brutally murdered by a neighbor boy. She accused him of doing the deed himself. She also insisted that there was a conspiracy among friends and neighbors to frame her for Dr. Polk's murder; later, after her conviction, she admitted that she had stabbed him "in self-defense".
Martin came into the picture because Polk was trying to convince the jury she was psychic, and that Felix routinely drugged and hypnotized her in order to obtain accurate forecasts of world events. In this way, he found out about 9/11 in advance and told Israel's Mossad about it. You see, Susan insisted her husband was a Mossad agent even though he had no known connections to the intelligence agency, never worked in a government capacity, and had never even been to Israel. (I've written about some of Susan Polk's other delusions and allegations here.)
Judge Laurel S. Brady called the psychic issue "tangentially relevant" to the case (2), but I think she was far too generous. Remember, Susan Polk was arguing that she had nothing whatsoever to do with her husband's death, so his alleged hypnosis sessions didn't have any bearing on Susan's guilt or innocence.
Martin's testimony consisted only of a rundown of her own work as a psychic detective; she was not allowed to weigh in on the reality of psychic phenomena. She said she had assisted in about 100 criminal cases and was successful in all of them, but didn't provide any specifics.
http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com/2009/04/psychic-detectives-part-iv-other.html
Just like we always say. She sits around getting details and then "miraculously" gets some idea of where a person will be found. I wonder how many times she picked a spot for people to search ? Aside from that , as usual , it's too much to ask for something a little more concrete. Not to mention that while she has no problem taking money from desperate people , she won't submit to any kind of controlled test.
Vanders Mark,
Huh ? That's your idea of a science experiment ? That's not a science experiment at all. The first problem is that you've essentially built a bias into the experiment which necessarily flaws the methodology in a big way.
The second problem is that people aren't guinea pigs despite how many times some have tried.
The third issue is simply that it's a waste of time and energy anyway. Why not simply test the people who refuse to be tested in a controlled setting right now ? All of these psychics who claim to have special powers never have a problem taking money from believers but the minute a non-believer offers them the payment of a lifetime they have no idea how to do what they claim they can do. That's no coincidence , it's because these so-called psychics are full of it.
As for the rest of your post , yeah yeah , whatever. Call it arrogance if you want to but that doesn't detract from the simple fact that every time evidence if requested none is provided. If a skeptic corners a "psychic" there's always some excuse as to why the psychic can't perform which , oddly enough , never takes place when the "psychic" is charging his/her customers for the 'services' provided. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/11/2009 11:19:35 PM | Decide what qualifies as intuitive, which is wholly impossible, as far as I can tell for humans, let alone mice but whatever...
Exactly...someone spending their entire waking life nurturing the logical mind wouldn't know intuition if it slapped them in the face....so there's no point in commenting on the experiment...
The first problem is that you've essentially built a bias into the experiment which necessarily flaws the methodology in a big way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
ALL SCIENCE is flawed by bias...and it usually has to do with which opinion has the biggest bank account...one only needs to look at all them scientists fighting over which one is right about man made global warming to see this....
The only problem with my experiment is the fact that you couldn't develop and agree on a solid method for strictly developing intuition...because it seems to reside outside the laws of science
That's no coincidence , it's because these so-called psychics are full of it.
FOR THE LAST TIME! I AGREE WITH YOU! Try stepping outside of your own self serving mind and actually "interact" with the people in this forum....
The mind can be a better doctor than doctors sometimes.
Hang on a sec...so they don't just THINK they do better...but they ACTUALLY do better? Is that what was published?
Thank you for giving us "spiritual" people a little credit....
In the end it all depends on what "reality" you're looking at...tangible, cold hard facts are great for understanding the world around you when you're conscious....but just remember...for a a whole THIRD of our lives...our minds reside in a state that can never be fully understood by science...is our conscious reality the REAL reality simply because facts verify it? Hell no....we need BALANCE in order to survive...correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure you'd die if you never slept.... | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/11/2009 11:21:01 PM | Wait, Wait!
I get it....you don't believe in spirituality, intuition, God, or even Santa...
BUT, you believe in what YOU SELECT aka Blogspots, on the internet!!!!!
Smalls, you're KILLING ME  | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/12/2009 1:55:54 AM | Where do you get that BS? WRONG WRONG WRONG. They have solved many. The proof is on camera and in documentaries on tv all of the time. One would think that if you cannot bother to do the research, that at least you could watch tv. Not fake stories, the real ones put out by the FBI and other valid law enforcement agencies.
Try finding documented evidence provided by a law enforcement agency (not by a psychic or their own agency as is often the case when dealing with the media) that suggests a psychic solved a case or provided useful information. Heck, try contacting these agencies (like the FBI,) and see what they have to say. It has been done by skeptics like James Randi, John Merrel, Gary Posner, and Lyons and Truzzi.
Television and news articles providing anecdotal evidence aren't proof of accurate research. I could just as easily cite Penn & Teller's BS! if that weren't the case... | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/12/2009 4:28:11 AM | It's possible that such powers do exist and some people may have them.
However, I don't think anyone who really had them to any appreciable degree would go around advertising it.
Imagine having the power of perfect precognition and could actually see into the future. The ability to see the death of your friends and family would be a terrible burden.
I think anyone who could actually do that would probably keep it to themselves. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:43:42 AM | SmilingSalmon,
So what did she do exactly ? The blogger made some valid points don't you think ?
Everybody already had a pretty good idea of where he'd be (they'd searched the area twice already) Her "accurate" circle encompassed about two city blocks in area. She was approached by people who already knew the case intimately and told her all kinds of details about both Prado and where he probably went missing. There's nothing the least bit "psychic" about what Martin did. She simply took the information she had to a person who didn't realize she had it and pretended she was as clueless about her knowledge as he was.
Why you guys have latched on to this as being ego is somewhat mystifying but if you say it's my ego that's preventing me from 'seeing the light' then so be it. I suppose the exact same could be said about you for failing to admit that Martin doesn't seem all that special despite her claims.
Vanders Mark ,
Okay , I'll go with your last post. You certainly don't seem like much of a skeptic but okay , if you say Martin is full of crap too , that's good enough for me. Cheers. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 83 | |
| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/12/2009 3:19:24 PM | Martin doesn't seem all that special despite her claims.
Just another "cold reader" who *takes money from ordinary people.
Well as humans we only use a very small percentage of our full brain capacity
Another oft-repeated myth.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks that a psychic should give their gifts freely.
Because that's the line of demarcation between innocent delusion and malicious fraud.
Consider:
By the combined offers of skeptical organizations all over the world, it is possible to cash in no less than $2,326,500. Even if the so-called "psychic" claims they *don't want the money, ...they could use it to feed 90,000 starving people for a year. Why let them starve?
The testing is simple and straight-forward: The subject only has to be more accurate than random chance, and the only conditions imposed are those that eliminate fraudulent natural means. Unlike scientific testing (which is supposed to not just test for phenomena, but expects an explanation for it as well), the skeptics only want proof that this can be done without fraudulent means.
Those who actually believe they have abilities have all tested "no more accurate than random chance allows for", those who know they are frauds, "know" that the testers "know" perfectly well how they do it –and so come up with lame excuses to not take the challenge, many of them outright lies.
Fact is, nobody has collected on any of these awards, some dating back to the 19th century. You'd think this would temper credulity, instead the credulous offer the same lame excuses and lies to deflect this glaring fact (If you want to claim the testing protocols are flawed, there's no need for straw man fallacies, the protocols are simple, ...if there's a flaw, point it out.)
Celebrated psychic "detectives" make claims of "helping" law enforcement agencies –that can't stand up to even the most basic fact-check. You'd think this too would temper credulity?
Even when people are told by a mentalist that the mind-reading that they just performed is a "trick", ...some actually won't believe them (no, you must be psychic....).
The brain is a mystery in some respects, but the known cognitive dissonances of confirmation bias, Texas sharpshooter fallacy, Forer effect, etc are ignored (especially by those who don't understand them). This can't be argued however, for the scientific method or true skepticism where the accuracy of the testing depends on eliminating any bias in conceiving a test protocol
"Open mindedness" is supposed to mean "unbiased", there is no degree of more or less in "unbiased", it either is or it isn't.
There is no unbiased proof that spiritual powers exist, this isn't being closed minded, it's just a recognizance that "it has yet to be proved". A true skeptic understands this, and the fact that you cannot prove a negative. This is the true "open mind".
Credulity does not mean "stupid".
It means: "a tendency to be too ready to believe that something is real or true."
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 4:34:25 AM |
here is no unbiased proof that spiritual powers exist, this isn't being closed minded, it's just a recognizance that "it has yet to be proved". A true skeptic understands this, and the fact that you cannot prove a negative. This is the true "open mind".
and to make your point even stronger ~ there no unbiased proof spiritual power don't exist
either. ~ Yet you can say, "I am" ~ and no one will question your statement.
So I ask you, ? ~~ What is "am" I wish to take advantage of this "open mind"
Dance | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:13:04 AM | I'm not sure why everyone thinks that a psychic should give their gifts freely. Because that's the line of demarcation between innocent delusion and malicious fraud.
'Fraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this late, because it's a a sweeping statement on the intent of those who consider themselves "practitioners" of the "psychic arts." My sister is one. She reads the tarot and she is quite sincere in her belief in her "abilities." There is no intent to defraud. She, in her view, is simply providing a service. And she has a large, repeat clientele.
Now let's be clear! She is not offering "curse removal" services. She is not demanding the client give her a portion of their property. They come, she spends time with them, flips a few cards, tells them her interpretation of what the cards mean for their future...and then they leave after paying a small fee. Again, she is honestly and sincerely believing in what it is she does. And the client also believes in what she does.
If we're going to start charging people for fraud based on belief, we're going to have to start with every church that takes a collection. In fact, I think in the case of some churches, the case is a lot more easily made.
I, however, do not accept that my sister is a criminal because of what she does. In the end, however, it's caveat emptor on the part of the client. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:26:20 AM |
and to make your point even stronger ~ there no unbiased proof spiritual power don't exist
either. ~ Yet you can say, "I am" ~ and no one will question your statement.
So I ask you, ? ~~ What is "am" I wish to take advantage of this "open mind"
Here is a video that will explain the flawed thinking that prompts people who believe in certain non-scientific concepts to advise others who don't to be more open-minded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randi.org%2Fsite%2F&feature=player_embedded | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 11:45:33 AM | I really enjoyed the video about open-mindedness but sometimes scientists do tend to cling to scientific theories with some kind of blinded faith. I then do tend to believe that they are being closed minded.
I mean...
this is not the first time I have written this. This thread has repeated itself many times in various forms.
Just over 30 years ago I was in bed sound asleep when my partner woke me. She was crying. I said what's wrong? She said that someone in her family had just died but she didn't know who. I said it was just a dream. I noted that it was 2:10am. I calmed her down and we went back to sleep. Early that morning we were awoken by a call. Her cousin, whom we had spent the day with before, had been killed in a car accident that night. He was killed instantly. Time of the accident, approximately 2:00am.
Nothing like that has ever happened to me before or since but it sure happened to her. Do I believe, why would I not
The only thing that comes to mind for me is; His this true? Because if it is, then it makes me believe that his partner just showed some kind of psychic ability.
A skeptic might say; ah yes but people die every night...
Come on! | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 8:46:21 PM |
The only thing that comes to mind for me is; His this true? Because if it is, then it makes me believe that his partner just showed some kind of psychic ability.
A skeptic might say; ah yes but people die every night...
Come on!
Actually, what a skeptic would do is the following...
Take the number people in North America (say 330,000,000).
Guess at a reasonable approximation of how many people dream about a loved one dying (estimates vary, but let's say 10 distinct dreams per night and perhaps one in a thousand dreams are about a loved one dying.)
That means 3,300,000 dreams of a loved one dying every night.
Now, let's look at the odds of the loved one actually dying...
On any given day, about 5000 die in the US. Assume though that of those five thousand, maybe 10 people knew them fairly well (well enough to consider them close family or friends).
So...on any given day, there are 50,000 (5000 deaths X 10 people close to them) who will know someone fairly close to them, who will die the next day.
And there are 3.3 million death dreams a night...
50,000
________ = It's about 1.5% chance every night that this will happen in the US.
3,300,000
Law of large numbers...the assumptions may be wrong, that's not the point...the point is that the statistics of such a large population make even 1 in a million chances common place when looking at the whole. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 9:11:04 PM |
Law of large numbers...the assumptions may be wrong, that's not the point...the point is that the statistics of such a large population make even 1 in a million chances common place when looking at the whole.
You know what I think? I think ALL of us just connect the dot's in a very convenient way to reinforce what's convenient for us to consider possible or dare I say it...."true"
Some of you guys would love a show that Penn & Teller host called B*llshit! It's a hoot...but it's also rediculously biased...they did a show that tore down organic farming...which I loved because I'm a little skeptical myself...but to back up their point...they just had two people spouting off that "Science found this to be true" Well, why should I just take their word for it? Why don't you give me details of the study and more importantly...WHO FUNDED your study?
Sure you can provide evidence...but the most important piece of information is how you came up with that evidence....and in the case of Woody's fly by night calculation...I would just have to laugh... | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/14/2009 11:18:27 PM |
Sure you can provide evidence...but the most important piece of information is how you came up with that evidence....and in the case of Woody's fly by night calculation...I would just have to laugh...
Well, from someone who has enjoyed P&T's BS show...you're right...sometimes they're just filling in bias with convenient opinion.
But of course that's the issue, isn't it...when your research is watching television, rather than learning about the principles of the science, you can conveniently say "give me details of the study..." and so on...
And you can say, in the face of some basic math, that you just laugh. But the fact is that a 'death predicting dream', with what I showed to be fairly conservative estimates (10 as a close family or loved one? Likely nearer 50-100), could happen about 1.5% of the time.
That's about 5 times a year. Without any 'powers', you're going to have it happen 5 times a year..just from probability. Those five people, tell everyone they know (because it freaks them out, I'd do the same)...maybe 100-200 people for each of the five...probably a thousand people now have 'proof' of this power.
If the thousand people tell a friend/etc..."I know this guy who dreamed..."
That's 200,000 who have heard of this 'magical, spiritual power' occurring last year. In the last ten years...2 million people have direct contact with someone who experienced or knew a close family member/friend who experienced this.
No wonder it's such a favourite story to tell.
So laugh away, and remember...2009 is nearly 3/4 done. That's at least three people who have had the dream this year.
This isn't a 'study' by the way...in case you're confused, this is a principle of mathematics. You absolutely should take their word for general scientific principles, including probability, statistics and things like the Law of Large Numbers. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/15/2009 12:42:20 PM |
this is a principle of mathematics.
And estimates of numbers can be manipulated to a rediculous degree...
Like I said before...we cater to our own trains of thought...and our rationales are littered with bias....I understand that you can't prove a negative...but if there was a scientific mind that was actually interested in learning more about this stuff....you'd think they would come up with a more productive approach than simply seeking out obvious "psychic scammers" and putting them to the test.....
The constant need for cold hard facts and scientific evidence can be just as hindering as fundamentalist religious views...I've seen how people react when you poke holes in their "scientific realities" it really is a scary feeling when you put all your eggs in one basket and start seeing the foundation of your reality crumble.... | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/15/2009 1:34:44 PM | ^Huh ?
You just admitted that you understand that a negative can't be proven and then you go on to suggest that the problem here is with science and not the "psychics" themselves. It's not the scientific set that's making ridiculous claims here that they can't prove. In the meantime the "psychics" use the line about how their claims can't be disproved to continue fleecing the willing believers. Well no , actually , as it turns out , they can be disproved through science. As I've stated before , it doesn't require any special tools or fancy equipment either. It just takes critical thinking and the dismissal of excuses from the psychics.
If you're willing to just take peoples' word that they have special powers then fine , that's your problem I guess. What would you rely on instead of empirical evidence when testing supposed 'psychics' ? No true scientist is going to dismiss empirical evidence because he or she simply doesn't like it so whoever you're referring to and whatever "scientific realities" you're talking about don't apply. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/15/2009 2:14:05 PM | Maybe I'm a little off center about all this spiritual stuff.
I ain't what you would call religious, or into ghost stuff,and like that.
My thinkin on spiritual is things that inspire me.
Fer me my conscience is my god, and I trust my conscience; my conscience is me.
My hand is not me, my foot is not me, but my conscience is me.
My conscience is myself, me; I am my own god.
I am the sum of all my learnin, and experience's, but thats just me I guess, and no, I don't think I am perfect either.
Spiritual things, are things that inspire me. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/15/2009 3:24:56 PM | You just admitted that you understand that a negative can't be proven and then you go on to suggest that the problem here is with science and not the "psychics"
Funny how you would chime in after that comment....
The problem is with the approach...let me give you an analogy....
If cigarette companies fund studies on the health risks of smoking...you know damn well the approach to the study is going to be seriously flawed....
Setting out to prove that a self proclaimed professional psychic is a fraud doesn't provide you with any insight into what MIGHT be genuine "spiritual phenomina"
That's where my idea for an experiment comes in...I'd be approaching it with an inquisitive mind where as you are approaching it with the preconcieved idea that it's highly unlikely....
Woops...I gave you too much credit with the highly unlikely comment....
Obviously it doesn't exist.
Thanks for strengthening my point. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/15/2009 6:54:33 PM | I neither strengthened nor weakened your point Vanders.
You're assuming that there's a bias in science when , actually , no there's no "bias" in the scientific method itself. Predetermined results are biased but then again , they're not particularly scientific either.
I don't approach this with the intention of disproving psychics. Actually , as far as I'm concerned the onus doesn't rest with me in the first place. No , the expectation is that they prove their case first especially since it runs against everything we already know. I'm not ruling it out absolutely , I'm saying that there's absolutely no proof for it right now nor has there ever been any recorded. My previous comment was simply a summary conclusion based on what we know about psychics and their claimed abilities. So far they've proven themselves to be fraudsters or mildly delusional (perhaps only to a natural degree inherent in all humans if there is such a degree present in all humanity) If those are the people whose word I'm supposed to take then no , it's entirely fair of me to say that it doesn't exist. "If it walks like a duck ...."
If I'm wrong I'll admit it , I don't mind. I really mean that too. If I were actually studying the matter I wouldn't approach it with the bias you erroneously believe is present in scientific study. I would examine the claims and do precisely what I've always done all along : What you think is an inability to admit I might be wrong is actually the scientific method whereby I rule out all relevent factors that could contribute to a false positive. I do this as per Occam's Razor. As it happens , thousands have done the exact same thing and the only opening 'psychics' have left is their old standby line of "Well , you can't disprove it..." otherwise they've lost their battle to "prove" their claimed abilities. If there's some other factor that somebody has left out in the scientific study of supposed 'psychics' , nobody has thought of it yet. By now it's pretty obvious that it's just a bunch of made-up nonsense that some people genuinely believe in spite of the facts while others are well aware of the absense of 'psychic powers' in the universe but exploit others for their faith in them anyway.
If you also approached this in a scientific manner you'd eventually conclude the same thing as I have which is that if there is such a thing as 'psychic power' then not only is nobody aware of it , as yet nobody knows how to tap into it. There's absolutely no good reason to believe in it otherwise. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:43:56 PM |
There is no such thing as "spiritual powers" outside of fiction. The imagination enjoys all kinds of nice ideas, many of them fanciful. In reality the closest you can come to supernatural power is, and this has been proven and documented, that you can make it rain in the afternoon by washing your car in the morning.
this guy (or woman's) grandfather was on the sidelines laughing at the Wright Brothers
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:14:32 PM |
mind over matter
I keep a mind over matter sign in my office. My reasons are personal, and explaining the many horrific and split second events that I've experienced and survived by using, "Mind Over Matter", would be a book. I won't do that, but I will say that the first thing it takes to even start any understanding of it, is the lack of fear in the process of going into mind over matter. It's not something that can be analyzed by logical thinking, because logical thinking would see both sides of the end result, completely diminishing the whole process. Dreams, intuitions, psychics, magic and premonitions, have nothing to do with a persons capability’s, when it comes to, mind over matter. It is the one thing, that does not involve a persons emotional reaction. It’s more simple then the logic of thinking about it, because it involves letting go, a state of relaxation throughout the process, belief and that is what pulls one through what ever the case may be, using, “Mind Over Matter”.
Folks will believe what they want to believe, after all, it’s differences in opinions, that makes for good debates. Experiences, are the only truth, of the one who bares them and none of which has to be proven, unless one is trying to get them out into the public. As for me, the reactions that I’ve gotten from other folks, each time that I’ve used the mind over matter, in which no one knew I used that, was enough for me to know, that it was seen as amazing, unbelievable and ended with a, “Wow”, remark. But it’s been, my secret, and I’m left with a smile.
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:26:00 PM | | Regarding the original title question, yes I do. I do believe there are certain "forces" out there. HOWEVER I do draw the line at something that seems rather far-fetched, like objects that move by themselves, or something that can be easily disproved by science. I don't know about voodoo dolls, spells and things like that, but I do believe there are outside forces that can have a big impact on our lives, if not on the wider society as well. These forces can be positive or negative. I say this because I've experienced it first hand, but I won't get into the more elaborate details, cos a) I'm too damn lazy to type it all down, and b) I'll probably just sound mental to 99% of people on here anyway lol. Plus its way too hard to describe properly. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:44:03 PM | Yes I do believe and have a lot of personal stories that made me believe this way.
I do believe there are some with true spiritual powers and there are some that don't
I do put more of my faith in those that don't abuse it by the gaining of fame and money.
I feel these are gifts that are not meant to raise any of us above anyone else. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 11:08:32 PM |
What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
The power of 200-proof vodka is undeniable!
So is the power of the human mind in what it perceives, or believes that it perceives.
I've seen, heard and experienced things that are unexplainable on several occasions. Things that should never / could never happen in the opinion of most people - yet, I've experienced them in the presence of witnesses who also saw or experienced them. Were they spiritual? There was nothing to prove they were "spiritual". Were they extraordinary? Absolutely.
One example: Driving along a foggy winding mountain road at 5 mph, visibility zero. We took turns getting out and standing in the headlights. If we took one step away from them, we couldn't see each other. My friend had to drive with his door open, looking down at the roadway. We were going down an apparently straight section of roadway, no curves - he didn't turn the steering wheel. I suddenly felt a hump in the road and the front end of the car drop as if over a cliff - my stomach even got the same feeling as riding a rollercoaster down a steep incline. I yelled to stop, pulling up the brake handle between us violently. He looked at me like I was crazy saying he knew exactly where on the road we were. I told him to get out and walk to the front of the car...slowly. I did, too. We hadn't run over any hump...the dirt hump/edge of the road was about 6 inches in front of the tires. The car was faced 90-degrees to the roadway, a foot from the edge of a 300-foot cliff. But the car was still on perfectly level road. It was a narrow two-lane road with a slight ditch on the passenger side.
Just to get the car back into the traffic lane, we had to maneuver back and forth several times, with lots of turning of the steering wheel. So how did the car get into that position and location in the first place?
I don't feel what I experienced was particularly spiritual, but it sure wasn't normal for anyone I know. This drive was a weekly thing we did on Saturday nights after work, for lack of anything else to do. We never did that again. We normally made the drive at about 45-50 mph and this was the first time either of us had ever encountered that kind of fog. | |
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