| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 7:23:36 PM | It's possible that such powers do exist and some people may have them.
However, I don't think anyone who really had them to any appreciable degree would go around advertising it!
excellent observation, ~ and so it is "wise men don't write"
For one to possess such powers ~ requires enlightenment ~ the power that can move mountains , ~ does not ~ for there is no need ~ he put then there, for he is the mountain.
Since I write, you such know I'm not wise ~ but I have study this quandary for a very long time. We live in a universe , a sea of energy. Energy takes many form and is infinite. It can be borrowed , and channeled, it can be focused, it is static, energy can manifest and dwell, energy is awareness, energy is thought. ~ The largest can be the smallest and the smallest can be the largest. ~
What we all wish for, is control ~ understanding some of these things at some level and using them to benefit yourself and others in noble ways is what we really seek.
This requires a pure mind, void of bias ~ and it so very hard for a human to do.
Understand that your are spirit, a particial of awareness first~ and you host a delicate human life form and make your day a good one.
It's from this point of reference things start coming together and you "begin" to understand the awesome world in which you live and what you "can do". ~ Graduation day is death.
Dance | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/21/2009 6:27:27 AM |
Spiritual powers are bs, they don't exist. I watched about one minute of Chris Angel one day and when he walked towards a wall and then up the wall that was enough for me. Wow!! He can defy gravity...amazing. Couldn't possibly be a camera trick...oh no, not at all.
I would expect such an answer from you my dear. You hold true in your many post, there is not pretentious unreal bone in your body. ~ That's a very good thing, placing you inside the category of "keeper"
Where did this thread get derailed from spiritual awareness to classy parlor tricks?
The only connection is that they defy logic and reason but they are not the same thing. ~ There is a thread of information missing offering puzzlement being the only connection.
So don't be confused by such things.
Like the Beverly Hillbillies ~ they hear music in their ears and suddenly someone appears at the front door , It's magic! No! only knowledge and understanding.
Dance | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/21/2009 7:11:29 AM | I am a man of science. But I did spend several years studying oriental mysticism, simply because I found the subject fascinating and liked its clearly logical, if at times pseudoscientific approach. It is however philosophy more than science.
Did open my eyes about several points of demonstrable "spirituality" for example when you train with a 850yr old martial arts school, it is firstly a given that simply nothing will be taught which is not gleaned from actual combat experience, secondly the very first lesson, which does away with any pretentions about what may or may not be workable in practise, you're taught "sensing intention exercises" to learn to move out of the path of danger as it intends to harm you, rather than engaging it in any way.
Believe me, we're talking about students with no MA experience whatsoever being blindfolded and faultlessly avoiding the pulled blows of those standing behind them like it was just a natural thing, to move out of the way of something you cannot see, cannot hear, but will otherwise do you harm.
One of the maxims of this type of spirituality, the very backbone of the mediaeval Japanese Shugenja (roughly translating to druidic warrior-priest figures), is that the "spiritual" and fanstastic is indeed the mundane which goes unrecognised every day, but mostly just because nobody thinks much of the fact they can tell when someone across the room is staring at them, for example.
Yes I believe in spirituality, as the mundane, but with a value often less recognised. We are all spiritual beings, but some are just more or less aware, some more or less capable of placing this awareness into practicable action. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 104 | |
| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/21/2009 7:24:15 AM |
Where did this thread get derailed from spiritual awareness to classy parlor tricks?
From an epistemological perspective, the former and latter are two facets of the same thing in the context of the OP.
The only connection is that they defy logic and reason but they are not the same thing.
This also brings up the idea of being "open minded", which seems to be tossed around by some with no consideration of the definition of the concept. Any, presupposition yay or nay; negates the concept from a dialectical standpoint.
Those who say that ESP is impossible are ignoring the reality that it's impossible to prove a negative via logic; those who insist it exists are ignoring the law of parsimony (among other things), in regards to the reality that a positive can be proven (which has yet to be shown). | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/23/2009 6:51:03 PM | Here's a hard thing to get the mind around .
Science is a process of observation. However we've seemed to reached a point that many have determined the very act of observation alters the observed.
Now that's going to be a hard thing to sneak up on. Is there a way around this? I'm not sure , except for math.
I pose this quandary and look forward to thoughtful post.
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/23/2009 9:19:43 PM | | When I was younger I could instantly tell whether my relative were going to have a boy or a girl when they were pregnant. It always came to pass, so I think its one of those skills humans have, but lose if they don't hone it. We're just not capable of doing so yet. I can't do it accurately anymore needless to say. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 110 | |
| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/23/2009 9:36:17 PM | Science is a process of observation.
Let's also measure the byproducts of this method of observation, like the screen you're reading this off of, ...among many and myriad other things.
However we've seemed to reached a point that many have determined the very act of observation alters the observed
It depends on what's being measured though, this is not relevant in the simple means to construct a test, such as those used by skeptic organizations. The testing methods are transparent, if you're going to criticize one of them, cite it and post your arguments against it. Skeptics actually use far simpler testing methods than scientists have in the past, unfortunately; when it comes to this subject, a lot of scientists have been fooled, ...and discredited because of it. (the one Uri Geller fooled who later committed suicide from the disgrace comes to mind).
An appeal to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principal may sound really really sciencey, but in what way are you applying it to the question at hand, specifically? | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 5:12:57 AM | | Yes, they really do. Prayer to Jesus really works...............the Holy Spirit is real. There is energy both negative and positive,,,,,people have auras as well i have seen a few.....and I was not on any drugs, because I do not do drugs. Brown energy is negative and of the earth.....and many other colors as well...you can look them up. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 8:15:47 AM |
Prayer to Jesus really works...............the Holy Spirit is real.
Cue the Twilight Zone music.  How exactly does praying to a jewish zombie 'work'? I'm really curious if praying to him could say win me a lottery or something of that nature. Where does one look these things up?  | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 3:23:12 PM | hmm? ~ prayer is an applied skill ~much like anything else that you've ever attempted to do. That your skills might be lacking and the results difficult to find , fails to dispels the notion it might not be effective for others. Even without musical background accompaniment .
One of the most difficult things any human can do is "nothing". The head is always full of traffic. If you ever want your cup filled ~ you must offer an empty one. For no more can be placed in a full cup.
I have a nice viola ~ I love it's rich full rounded tones ~ but there was a time I thought it might be broken for it only gripped, bark and squealed at me every time I picked it up.
So I had a musical instrument teacher to guide me. I learned that I must adapt to the instrument for it refuses to adapt to me. ~After many months of hard work, Delfina cries and barks no more.
~ and on a different note; ~ I caught the tail end of "String Theory" last night ~ I hate that I missed so much of the program. ~ I have seen earlier programs on this subject ~ but this more unified then ever before. ~ A 9 dimensional universe! Hawkin is hard at work, as are the scientist in Geneva. From the super -conductor -super collider it's now termed the "Black Hole Maker"
I hope Hawkin's lives long enough to see his "Unified Ever Thing" come true.
We are getting close to the new energy source that will take us into the 22 Century.
It's an exciting time to be a human and see this unfold.
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 7:19:16 PM | I don't know if Jesus has to be a part of it, but they have done research on praying to help cure people and they have some pretty strong evidence for it. I don't have the link, but as I remember it the people who were being prayed for and those who were doing the praying were not connected in any way and didn't know about each other. It was a blind/?double blind study.
On an anecdotal note, my mom seems to have the tie in. I'll let her pray for me anytime. She gets results.
It may just be a way to set intent and not necessarily need the religious part, alla "The Secret." | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 8:06:15 PM | no finbarrsaunders, I haven't, so I looked it up. Ye , It's Zen for beginners ~ no doubt a good read. ~ Zen teaching offers the mind simple puzzles ~ to solve. Profound puzzles that guide the mind to only one conclusion. ~ It was sold out ~ must be a hot number these days.
Cut my teeth on many such books years ago along with many other eccentric topics, From Edward Casey works, Fritz Pearls work on dreams, Timothy Leary works, to Castinata 5 books along with King James bible , world history , anthropology & physiology and human amonomy , human relations , etc.
Can I say ?~ I love the study of "us" and the world we live in. Why we do, what we do.
Zen is an excellent study ~ It opens the mind to deeper understand of yourself and the world, preparing the mind for even deeper studies. You must learn to walk before you ever run.
I read some comment of some of the readers of the book. ~ Some people just didn't get it! Their comments quite comical.
Which is the way it is with some people ~ they just don't get it! I've learned to accept this long ago ~ it can't be forced on them. Everyone works at their own speed on such matters. It might take them several lifetimes to get "it". But they have no choice in the matter, someday they will understand what the really are. We don't miss things we know nothing of.
Thanks for the heads up. ~ Years ago there was one titled "Zen and the art of motorcycle repair" a sweetheart of a small book. It too provoked higher levels of thought. Read one short story and think about it all week long. It might take weeks to unlock the puzzle.
My kind of fun.
Dance | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/24/2009 8:14:29 PM | I dreamed my neighbor was dead and saw her lying in her house just in front of the front door. Three days later, it turns out she died the night I had the dream. She was found lying in front of her front door ... exactly where I saw her in my dream.
I experienced my son's death when it happened. It was awful and I thought I was going to die as well. I didn't find out until 6 hours later that he had passed away and it wasn't until they gave me the time of death and details of the death that I knew what I had experienced.
After his death ... I used to be able to sense him near me. At first it would scare me because I didn't know what it was ... now I know it was his way of trying to soothe me. My daughter and I were both very close to him and often we would have the exact dreams of him ... the exact same nights.
I have been told by many people that I am very spiritual. For me, it's just an every day thing. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 1:27:14 AM |
prayer is an applied skill ~much like anything else that you've ever attempted to do. That your skills might be lacking and the results difficult to find
Talking to an imaginary friend is not a skill. It's nothing like any other skill I've tried to learn or learned. The problem is not that anybody's prayer skill that is lacking, it's that there's nobody listening. This is why there are no results. Exactly like if I wrote to Santa and asked him for some thing for X-mas. I wouldn't get what I asked for. It wouldn't be that I lacked skill in writing the letter, it would be that there is no Santa Clause to read it or slink down my chimney. god=Santa Clause, tooth fairy, easter bunny, leprechauns, unicorns etc.  | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 6:50:04 AM |
Talking to an imaginary friend is not a skill. It's nothing like any other skill I've tried to learn or learned. The problem is not that anybody's prayer skill that is lacking, it's that there's nobody listening. This is why there are no results. Exactly like if I wrote to Santa and asked him for some thing for X-mas.
Well, ~ I'm sorry about your disappointment with Santa Clause , I remember my disappointment as well. ~ It was a conspired plot ! and they were all in on it! I've been dupped! So what did you miss?
Hmm ~ I understand, ~ If it help ~ they did this with God too! ~~ yep! you are right!
God's not a human being with a long white beard , dressed in a long white robe , sitting on a white cloud high in the sky watch over all the "good" people that love him. ~ That 's manmade religion at work attempting to make your legs run before you can even walk.
God is not human ~ is what you needed to got for all of that. ~ and God is not your friend.
and God is only as imaginary as you are. Are you imaginary? I see no proof of you, but only words.
If I eat ~ it will not fill your belly ~ your belly is for you to fill. All these things are for you to figure out, I can only help you. But for now, you seem to have no need of such.
So now it is. I'm happy with that , it matters little to me and fails to affect me at all.
Dance | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 10:45:36 AM | | What a bunch of hooey dance. God is indeed imaginary. If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to imagine there's a god, by all means, fill yer boots. I do understand how deep brain washing works and I also understand that most people have no choice in the matter. By the time they were old enough to think for themselves it was already too late. I feel bad for people who live their whole lives in a fantasy world but there's not much I can do to help them. They are drowning in superstition and refuse to grab on to the lifesaver. You have been duped. Sorry about your luck. I am thankful that I wasn't indoctrinated into your world of superstition as a child. My parents weren't perfect but in retrospect it seems that they were far better than most. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 11:57:49 AM | You have no idea if God exists or not... You have been duped in denying the thought completely... The only way to see it correctly in your case is; "I don't know"
Whenever you proclaim truth about something you can not know for fact, you are duping. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 122 | |
| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:02:11 PM | The only to see it correctly is "I don't know"
Nonsense, it can be further "seen" as "There is no evidence for it that can be independently verified", ...further still, "I would have to ignore fallacy to accept any of the arguments -for it".
Where is the "dupe" in that?
Here is an example of an actual dupe, right from the OP:
"And what about that Goldmind guy, I think he calls himself a mentalist. Doesn’t he somehow show us that some magic tricks as performed by Chris Angel and such hold some truth to them, if only just a little?"
Don't you see how the basis for this premise/conclusion is ignorance and credulity?
Have you acquired new knowledge that allows you to make a more informed decision?
Or do you still believe: "some truth to them, if only just a little?" | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:08:38 PM | If you are talking about the specific God of the bible and such, I can see that it is easier to dismiss but you still don't know for sure... meaning a 100% proof that he doesn't exist...
Anyone claiming certainty in God's non-existence is being fallacious in my eyes. Just as much so, if not more, than those who claim to have had a conversation with him. A little more actually because they might be saying the truth.
As it's been mentioned many times before in this thread; you cannot prove a negative.
edit
I shouldn't have mentioned this in my original post but I know where it came from and that'll have to do.... It was more about the use/control of the subconscious and less about spiritual powers; therefore detrimental to the intent of the thread. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 124 | |
| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:26:25 PM | If you are talking about the specific God of the bible and such, I can see that it is easier to dismiss but you still don't know for sure... meaning a 100% proof that he doesn't exist...
There's no such thing as 100% proof that leprechaun boot buckle dust doesn't have magical powers either.
Anyone claiming certainty in God's non-existence is being fallacious in my eyes.
Anybody claiming 100% certainty that leprechaun boot buckle dust doesn't have magical powers is being fallacious, it's the nature of trying to prove a negative
Just as much so, if not more, than those who claim to have had a conversation with him.
A positive can be proven, you know what they say about "extraordinary claims" I hope?
A little more actually because they might be saying the truth.
Bull! if there is no verifiable evidence for this truth, it's moot.
You can prove a positive, so prove it. The burden of proof does not lie with the doubter.
I shouldn't have mentioned this in my original post but I know where it came from and that'll have to do.... It was more about the use/control of the subconscious and less about spiritual powers; therefore detrimental to the intent of the thread.
Absolutely not, and here's proof - it's a significant portion of the OP.
Just because it illustrates a "dupe" that made the author of the OP believe in spiritual powers "just a little;" may be detrimental to your argument, however it does illustrate the point that the skeptics are making - perfectly.
Either you corrected your misunderstanding of a natural, explainable "magic trick", or you continue to "believe" "just a little" because of it. Skirting this reality does not make it vanish, ...in a puff of smoke, even if you try to make it do so with fallacious hocus pocus. | |
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| What do you think of spiritual powers? Do they exist?
Posted: 8/25/2009 1:46:29 PM | Hmm, I'm wondering now if Popper's maxim/theory/whatever can be applied to the Philosophy of Religion, and if so, is it an extension of Ayer's Logical Positivism. But I should take that to the philosophy board, as I don't know.
Personally I do believe spiritual powers exist. For many reasons. Philosophical, anthropological, personal experience. | |
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