Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ocrikeymikey
Joined: 12/15/2004
Msg: 26
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ? Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I hadnt heard that and theres a couple of ways of looking at it.

Im guessing the right to life groups would suggest he has past suicidal tendencies and his desire to end his life is at least partially based on that.

You could also say that this poor bugger has not only got his physical problems,hes also got mental illness on top of that to battle.

In this particular case,still his decision to make I reckon,no one elses.
 gjay1
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 27
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/12/2009 2:37:50 PM
suzie, i hope youre coping better, huge issue, just a thought, and im sure since youre gettting help that this has been addressed , is your medication the right one for you?? all the very best to you xx
i do believe people shold have the right to choose, in situations like the OP, people have diffferent views on what constitutes a life for them, and to be held virtually in captivity, must be unbearable
 gjay1
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 28
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/13/2009 3:05:38 PM
glad things are going well, keep on keeping on :)

on topic, when my beautiful dad passed away, the hospital staff were wonderful, just managed his pain, and stopped all the invasive stuff, and we all sat and had those last few minutes with him to say goodbye, so much better than causing him distress, when the end became inevitable-still miss him heaps
 shellg1
Joined: 5/21/2009
Msg: 29
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 2:49:47 AM
we SHOULD have the right to die in a peaceful and dignified manner!!! i personally have watched two deaths, one assisted and one painfull and undignified death!!! the assisted one was peaceful and we all got to say our goodbyes, with my loved one laughing until she gently passed away, the unassissted one went painfully and listening to his anguished cries and reaching out because he couldnt breathe was just cruel!!!!
 Faux Pa
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 30
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 4:24:09 AM
Looks like the subject of the OP has won his case today.


A landmark decision in Western Australia's Supreme Court has given a Perth quadriplegic the right to refuse food from his care provider.

Christian Rossiter, 49, was given the approval on the condition he understands the consequences of his actions.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/14/2656334.htm
 -=Rarez=-
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 31
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 4:35:27 AM
I think allowing people to die opens up to people without known mental conditions wanting to die from undiagnosed depression or things like that. Aswell as people who are just going through a faze. i.e someone might say they want to die then now have the ability to do it. Is that socially acceptable? I don't think so.
 myforumsite
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 32
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 4:40:42 AM

Looks like the subject of the OP has won his case today.


Wow – finally a judicial decision that is based on humanity and compassion. I hope this poor man finally finds the peace he has fought so bravely for.

My faith in humanity is restored.

RIP Christian Rossiter
 Beachippy
Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 5:02:32 AM
"Kill me Kyle".... grandpa's lament on a south park episode.... sigh...
awww, grand pa... we can't kill you....

come on kyle... it's your duty... I'm relying you kids... Kill me!!....

awww geezus grand pa... we're just kids...
 myforumsite
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 34
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 5:11:13 AM

But is it "socially acceptable" to dictate to people what is or isn't an acceptable quality of life? I don't think so.
I actually find it quite sad how far we go in our quest to keep people alive for as long as possible...even when they have had an above average lifespan and life holds nothing forthem anymore.


Couldn’t agree more. It isn’t socially or ethically or morally acceptable to dictate to anyone whether they their life is worth living or not. I don’t care what religious or moral stance anyone takes – none of us has the right to say if this mans life was worth living except him. Usually it isn’t a decision that anyone else has any input to making as most often someone wanting to suicide simply can because they have the physical capability to do to. What makes this mans plight so different is that the choice to do so was removed due to his paraplegia.

I usually have little faith in the legal system but it seems in this instance that common sense prevailed. Kudos to the judge who had the moral fortitude to do what he/she knew was right.
 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 35
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 6:04:35 AM
I listened to an ABC radio interview with a legal expert in this area this arvo. She was quite firm in saying that this decision, ie affirming his right to refuse medical treatment, is quite different to euthenasia. She said that patients have always had the right to refuse medical treatment that might be prolonging life and since the PEG tube is actually artificial feeding the Judge's decision was just affirming accepted practise. When asked by the interviewer why it needed a court ruling then, she said that since it is a high profile case the hospital was covering their staff.
 Faux Pa
Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 36
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 6:31:15 AM

. . the Judge's decision was just affirming accepted practise. When asked by the interviewer why it needed a court ruling then, she said that since it is a high profile case the hospital was covering their staff.

Yes . . and I think I read somewhere that it was the nursing home that asked for this ruling. Is that correct?
The fact that the nursing home asked for the ruling and not Mr Rossiter paints the picture correctly.
 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 37
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 7:50:03 AM

it was the nursing home that asked for this ruling. Is that correct?
Yes, I believe so. Apparently the patient has been stating his wish that he not be artificially fed/kept alive and Brightwater wanted to confirm that they could uphold his wishes.
 JulietJuliet
Joined: 2/5/2009
Msg: 38
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/14/2009 9:11:03 AM
Wow! Did anyone see the smile on this guy's face after he won his case? Good on him however, I would have chosen no food but kept the water side of things.....something he does not want. I guess it's just me.
Does this mean his medication will also cease?.....he needs water to swallow pills.
I think it's going to be a painful death for this man and I only hope he is strong enough to face the next few days. Perhaps he feels it is worth his suffering for a future of a painless eternity.
He has my best wishes and I sincerely hope he dies with the dignity he deserves.
 Beachippy
Joined: 3/21/2006
Msg: 39
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/15/2009 2:29:05 AM
Spoken Introduction:
There's an old Australian stockman, lying, dying. He gets himself up on one elbow, turns to his mates, who are gathered round, and he says:

------------------------------

Watch me wallaby's feed, mate, watch me wallaby's feed.
They're a dangerous breed, mate, so watch me wallaby's feed.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.

Keep me****too cool, Curl,
Keep me****too cool.
Don't go acting the fool, Curl,
Keep me****too cool.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.

Take me koala back, Jack,
Take me koala back.
He lives somewhere out on the track, Mac,
So take me koala back.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.

Mind me platypus duck, Bill,
Mind me platypus duck.
Don't let him go running amuck, Bill,
Mind me platypus duck.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.

Play your didgeridoo, Blue,
Play your didgeridoo.
Keep playing 'til I shoot through, Blue,
Play your didgeridoo.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.

Tan me hide when I'm dead, Fred,
Tan me hide when I'm dead.
So we tanned his hide when he died, Clyde,
(spoken)And that's it hanging on the shed.
All together now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.
Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
Tie me kangaroo down.


way to go sport!.... I hope you are ready for your last journey.... best wishes....

peace...
 JulietJuliet
Joined: 2/5/2009
Msg: 40
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/15/2009 7:56:00 AM
It appears that this man in question is having a change of heart.....Could it be that he has realized that death is final or has the past few days put him in a good frame of mind with the attention and not feelings of depression?
This is a very difficult case to deal with.
My care aide best friend has actually met this man.....Not dealt with him personally, but has spoken to him and found him to be a 'happy' person with a lot to live for. This has confused me somewhat.
It casts my mind back to when a friend of mine's brother was dying and his medication was going to stop on a Sunday.....At his own request. Sunday came along and he brought his family together however, he was in a good frame of mind and said he wanted to live after all......On the following Tuesday he died...A very restless death with his family by his side. His sister told me he was screaming and fighting and his eyes were full of fear. I don't know IF his medication was actually stopped, but can only assume it wasn't.
Is it the fear of death that consumes the man in question?
 DumbeBlonde
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 41
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/15/2009 8:34:38 AM
Don't know Juliet, but what I will never forget is a period of time I spent working in the disability sector. Everyone had a disabilities of various types and in various degrees. Once the CEO passed on a lesson to me he had learned: You will never understand what I'm going through until you live in my skin. I have never forgotten those words and never presume to judge another person's decision if I haven't lived their experience.

But we have wandered away from the original question, and my answer is a resounding YES. We are not being asked the question "Is that the appropriate decision?"
 JulietJuliet
Joined: 2/5/2009
Msg: 42
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/15/2009 9:05:46 AM

You will never understand what I'm going through until you live in my skin.
.....Very wise words indeed.
ALL of my clients are dying sooner than the average person.
My 95 year old lady if full of life (Suffers from old age).....My 33 year old (Suffers from MS) and knows what lies ahead.
I can visibly see what each of my clients goes through each day, but I cannot imagine their thoughts. Sure they occassionally tell me what they are thinking and how they are feeling however I cannot go deep inside their thoughts.....It's not allowed as they belong to the system and NOT to those who assist with personal care.
The times I wish I could just sit and talk and it's when I feel like this I feel that my clients need reassurance.
People get to know their own 'Line' and when it's time to cross that line.
This man in question may have felt that life was not worth living At the time of his deep depression but everyone is entitled to change their mind....Unfortunately the media is now involved.
 greg7001
Joined: 6/19/2009
Msg: 43
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/16/2009 12:36:23 AM
I think it would be very hard to put yourself into Mr Rossiter's shoes. From the evidence it seems he lives a life that is a pale shadow of what it once was; I think if I was in that situation I would want to end my own life.

The legal and ethical issues surrounding this sort of thing are fairly complex. I think it is worth reading the judgement of the court on this matter and the sort of things Martin CJ considered.

http://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/publications/pdf/DraftJudgment.pdf
 checking the water
Joined: 8/13/2009
Msg: 44
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:13:08 AM
My heart goes out to Christian and what he is about to go through. June 2008 my 94 years young Mother decided she didn't want to play this game anymore. Yes, she had all her marbles but was riddled with arthitis and could not do a damn thing for herself. Three years earlier she asked me to help her die. How I now wish I had helped her, it would have been worth going to jail for the rest of my life to have taken away what she went through.
She started refusing food, but always took her mediciations (no they didn't help her die), two weeks later, she started refusing fluids as well. It took 3 weeks for her to die. My sister and I, had to just sit and watch our Mother wasting away. Sometimes she would cry out in pain, then the last two days she started vomitting up the lining of her stomach. My sister told me that it was nearly over (she was a nursing sister) so she knew.

Five days before our Mothers 95th birthday, as the sun rose. She left us. She had a stroke and died. Three weeks it took her to kill herself.
 Naamah
Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 45
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:29:23 AM
^^^Checking the Water, I know no words I can write are adequate but I am so incredibly saddened to read about what your Mum endured, and horrified that 'we' make people in your Mum's position travel that road. I am also so sad for you that you experienced that sheer helplessness from the chair beside the bed and for the memory images you have been left with. If I can pinch Soulmate's catchphrase for a second and just wish you peace.
 checking the water
Joined: 8/13/2009
Msg: 46
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:40:07 AM
Thank you Naamah. I know she is where she wanted to be and that she has no more pain. This is bit is the scary part ok.

My eldest son was very close to Mum, they idolised each other. He is a concretor and he was working and saw the sun come up. He thought to himself "Wow, wish Nan could see this sunrise" little did he know at that time. That Nan had painted it for him.
Mum only stopped painting 5 years prior.

David and his girlfriend had been trying to have a baby but Becky was having trouble. Becky fell pregnacy on Mum's birthday. Their now have a beautiful baby boy, who is the apple of his Dad's eye.

Thank you again Naamah.
 Alteredstates
Joined: 8/18/2009
Msg: 47
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 8/23/2009 10:21:25 AM
Anyone and everyone, sane or insane, healthy or sick should have the right to choose their own destiny



To force our own ideas and moralities onto others???

THEN MIGHT AS WELL SIEG HEIL!





 dimeadozen
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 48
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 9/20/2009 8:31:29 PM
Mr Rossiter has died.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/865603/right-to-die-quadriplegic-passes-away


Perth quadriplegic Christian Rossiter has died after succumbing to a chest infection, five weeks after a court granted him the right to refuse food and water.

Mr Rossiter, 49, died in a Perth nursing home early on Monday morning, his brother Tim Rossiter said in a statement.
.../snip/...
The Seven Network reported that he had refused medical treatment for the infection.


It must have been horrendous. Hardly the quiet drowsy death that he was quoted as saying he wanted.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 9/20/2009 10:14:26 PM

Perth quadriplegic Christian Rossiter has died after succumbing to a chest infection, five weeks after a court granted him the right to refuse food and water.
Mr Rossiter, 49, died in a Perth nursing home early on Monday morning, his brother Tim Rossiter said in a statement..../snip/...The Seven Network reported that he had refused medical treatment for the infection.
It must have been horrendous. Hardly the quiet drowsy death that he was quoted as saying he wanted.

Indeed. Being forced to starve himself to death was bad enough, but then having to spend a few days/weeks asphyxiating himself instead seems even worse.
One hopes he got frequent and compassionate (as far as the law allows) medical attention.

This is the other side of the 'if we legalize euthanasia it'll lead to people snuffing the old folks' coin... which I've never understood really, because there's a few too many old folks around for my liking anyway.

Abortion, euthanasia, and human cell research/modification are the Big Three that governments continually avoid, make a mess of, run screaming from, trip over, prevaricate about, and consistently fail to get to grips with. And one can see why - they're all electoral minefields.
No doubt it is necessary to ensure the innocent and/or vulnerable are protected. But applying the same protections and prohibitions across every situation leads to this kind of unfortunate scenario and dreadful outcome.

What's the (safe) middle road peoples? I don't know.
 soulmate08
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 50
view profile
History
Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?
Posted: 9/20/2009 10:22:36 PM
^^^^^^^ IN this case...... A living Will..
we can chose to write out exactly our thoughts/preferences... in case' of'... scenarios...
1 of the problems.. though... is human's maybe changing their minds.. or no empathy... to their future plight and how they will feel....or idea How THEY will feel once in the situation...
I'ts scary...facing death is scary... facing illness is scary....... the human fight/spirit comes out .. or manifests differently in everyone...
IN fact this case cauused abit of a rucios.. within the quad community...ie... didnt want a precedant.. that ALL QUADS THOUGHT>>>>>THEY HAD NO QUALITY OF LIFE... In fact there are many people living.. after a vast range of situations... who go on to live/communicate differently and learn.. their inner being... is still there..
everyone is different..
A doctor even said.. it might make paths.. to switching off.. and not doing medical care.. to keep people alive... that might end up like this... ie in trauma rooms....
that was scary to those who''''' don't chose to die in this situation..''''or strokes etc...
huge can of worms.. (cliche.. know you'll appreciate a good cliche)..
2 people have entrusted me with verbal instructions..
1 my mum... After this thread I reminded her to write it down.. (she probably won't.. because human nature.. superstition.. writing actual wills...........life insurance... living wills etc...
we tend to avoid.. in case... well. we might just bring it on ourselves hey?
so we mention in passing.. with deep eye locks....
In all honesty... it's unfair.. How can I legally explain.. yep mum said pull the plug...
my best mate.. tells me the same.... (ive not had the better write down then.. so ive got back up... cause regardless..of you being a stubborn independant thing.. as you are..
your family ..kids love ya.. and will want to fight.. to save you... that's human instinct..nature
predicatable..
although I have acknowledged her wishes.. questioned them both.. on the thought/reasoning behind it..etc..
I respect their wishes...
but as I told my best mate..
seeing some fuk ups in medical..
Im not gunna stand by if there is a chance... so YOU deal with that..
at the bottom.. ill fight for your health..
but.. I respect if its unavoidable... what you want..(but she hasnt told her husband these thoughts.. so what?.. im supposed to reassure him.. who loves her.. she wants to die?.. nope noway.. he would fight.. cause thats what love does intially..
unless respect of wishes comes in..
I need to talk to her..
truth be told.. im dying first though.. so ..
its fruitless..
be brave.. write a living will
but only if you trust your loved ones.....
peace
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Does a Fully Coherent You, Have the Rite to chose How/When to Die ?