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| please can all those with disabled and elderly or carers of either, please read!!
Posted: 8/15/2009 7:11:59 AM | This forum is for discussion and debate.
It is not to be used as a platform to promote or incite petitions.
Do not post any more links to petitions or websites campaigning for or against the subject matter under debate as this is Spam
Do not post Spam!!! What's a Spammer? Someone who promotes either by Link (Website), ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER or any other means any Person, Establishment of Commerce or any other Entity that engages into any Type of Transaction for the Exchange of Money. This also incl. Website's which either mirror or link off to other Sites such as advertising Front Ends. No Link to your own Website, or free Hosting Sites, ie. MySpace, Geocities, Facebook, etc.
Thanks to those who remained on topic and within the forum rules..
THREAD CLEANED & RE-OPENED
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 2:45:16 AM | It has taken me a while to wade through the proposals being made and whilst like everyone I have my own views about it, it is a pretty good first step and bringing in the changes needed to our benefits system. The one we have have now is poor and works in no-ones interest, not those who need care, not those who provide care and not those who are paying for it through taxes or private funding.
I deal with problems experienced by people in our benefits system on a daily basis and see the pain and suffering caused by it's many failings and shortcomings and welcome this open discussion about the reforms needed so that we can all have a care system of which we can be proud and that works for everyone.
It is foolish to just dismiss this process because you don't like one aspect or another of the suggestions it makes, if you think it needs to be altered in someway or have ideas or views on it then get involved in the process and help to make it work for everyone.
I personally think it is a good and necessary and long overdue thing to do to overall the care system and hope that they do the same to all the other benefits too.
Well done to the government for tackling this difficult and complex issue at this time and I wish them every success. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 3:55:47 AM | A scheme that ties up with the green paper is being used in Northamptonshire-
Its called Self directed support and personal budgets for people in Northamptonshire-
Basically the person elegible for dla will now need to fill in more forms. First form is the self assessment*scratches head* which will be used to determine how much you are elegible for.
Next the client creates a self directed " the support plan" to say what they want to spend the budget on,* demonstrate how x will improve your life. It still allows for paying relatives and friends for their time- probably be able to pay for relative making your meal instead of meals on wheels.
Instead of social services telling you what is available to you, your care manager will approve or reject your application.
I am currently in training to offer voluntary support of this process- I think the more able and well supported/educated will find this system not so daunting and definitely be more in control of what budget is spent on. People have already used this system to improve their quality of life- The only things you can't spend budget on are gambling including bingo and illigal activities- shame-lol. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:26:47 AM | Ahh thank you lexx as now can say why it wont work lol
so how much new administration is involed, from the top honcho to the clark? I presum new office space etc?
how many new carers will be involve, again from top to bottom, plus the training?
the term budget, sounds like cut, or will there money be increased? Wont hold breath lol
whats wrong with the old bints having a game of bingo ffs, they can goto the pub and get ratted but dont play evil bingo! Most of them thats the only time they see each other for a canc.
edit, so you say no new admin or carers? So if i find proof thats not the case would you be happy?
i can remember when job centre went to job centre plus, how much did that cost the country in signs and moving offices etc?
notice the budget question wasnt answered or the criteria. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:45:03 AM |
so how much new administration is involed, from the top honcho to the clark? I presum new office space etc?
Well, as the LA currently manages these budgets themself and they are going to be devolved to the customer / client / whatever the current term is, I should imagine no new admin staff, and therefore no new office space, as they will just be used in a different way.
whats wrong with the old bints having a game of bingo ffs, they can goto the pub and get ratted but dont play evil bingo!
Nobody says they can't have a game of bingo ffs!
They just can't spend their care budget on gambling! Gambling puts money without exception in the hands of the concern that organises it - be it Mecca, Ladbrokes, paddypower or whoever, without a physical commodity in return. They are commercial organisations after all.
They could spend their care budget on specialised transport or transport for a carer... which may include travel to their local bingo hall, they just can't spend the care money on paying to play! I mean, does playing bingo per se require a care budget?
That has to come out of the money that they have coming in from other sources. ESA, IB, Pension... Just like anybody else, there are certain leisure activities that are optional and a person has to make decisions as to whether they can afford it or not on their normal budget.
how many new carers will be involve, again from top to bottom, plus the training?
No more than are required now as far as I can see. Care requirements will not increase just because a person manages their own budget instead of the LA.
Can you explain why more carers will be needed? | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 6:05:15 AM |
edit, so you say no new admin or carers? So if i find proof thats not the case would you be happy?
i can remember when job centre went to job centre plus, how much did that cost the country in signs and moving offices etc?
notice the budget question wasnt answered or the criteria.
Jobcentre to Jobcentreplus? Over three years the budget was split £20m + £20m + £10m I think. Or less politely too bl**dy much. On the other hand, in those same years we also lost 180,000 staff which was then one-third of our staffing, only partly as a result of savings due to the changeover.
Carer numbers - I have no idea, that's why I actually asked the question and qualified my statement with "as far as I can see". And Admin numbers? I qualified that with "I should imagine". I don't work in that area and so have no idea of the answers. Nor do I have any idea of the criteria currently being piloted in Northants.
It's not a case of "would I be happy?" What I am trying to do is find some factual information so that a debate can be conducted sensibly rather than gut reaction on either side - as if there really is a "side", this Green Paper is going to affect everyone in the UK, whether rich or poor, disabled or able-bodied or able-minded. And the money that is being discussed should make everyone bar no-one sit up and question how they think their retirement is going to be funded.
I am really, really not arguing against you, badge! Just against panic-driven debate.
And now I have probably used up my allowance of posts on this thread for 24 hours... | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 6:33:35 AM | This is where i struggle, as i keep an interest in political happenings, the problem - how can there be a pilot scheme if the gree paper hasnt gone through? Can either lex or annie give me a link so i can examine. As nothing can be given the go ahead without the green paper going through parliament etc.
if indeed what lex is saying is true, the money goes from s.s to a care manager. Where does the care manager spring up from? Now do you see the point im making, a new department will spring up from no where, never mind with correct training etc.
Not many knew of the green paper never mind the said charities who are up in arms and due to this the paper will be kicked into touch.
the public are more informed due to freedom of information act and more common now are whistle blowers. They are usually disgruntled after seeing the changes over last 10 years and lack of training to new staff especially when there descision makers. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 6:50:49 AM | Look at the blue boxes on pp 36 and 37 of the Green Paper.
Right to Control (Office for Disability Issues, 2009)
This legislative power, currently going through Parliament as part of the Welfare Reform Bill, aims to give disabled people more choice in and control over how certain support services are providedWe will pilot it in a number of local authorities in England from 2010
http://www.odi.gov.uk/docs/wor/rtc/rtc-consult-standard.pdf
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/16/2009 7:31:33 AM | Not the same legislation...
Green Paper - the future including Personal Control of budgets for services that currently can't be used in this way such as the ILF, and how we pay for it. A Green Paper doesn't go through Parliament anyway, it has to become a White Paper first, which is why there is consultation invited.
The pilots - Personal Control of budgets - within what is in place now. ODI initiative based on the Welfare Reform Act - not sure where that is in its progress to Law. lex said "learning to be a volunteer" - the ODI document hasn't ended consultation yet. | |
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| please can all those with disabled and elderly or carers of either, please read!!
Posted: 8/16/2009 2:57:14 PM | Interesting that you mention WMD's.
We've been fighting an unwinnable war for years now, allegedly (in the beginning) to stop Saddam Hussein from using them (remember the 'dodgy dossier' and the claim Hussein could deploy them in 45 minutes, anyone?) and yet, while we supposedly invaded Iraq to stop their WMD programme, our beloved government voted to retain and improve our own nukes and subs, and to do so at a cost of up to 76 billion pounds over their operational lifespan.
Funny how there's suddenly not enough money in the pot for the sick and/or disabled (and I am one getting DLA and Income Support), but there always seems to be enough for weapons and warfare, including our nukes that have never been used and no sane person would ever advocate using. | |
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| please can all those with disabled and elderly or carers of either, please read!!
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:15:18 PM | The main issue I have with these reforms is that was said in a previous article I posted, taking away AA or DLA could take away other benefits such as pension credit which could leave people significantly worse off.
As for people having to accept care from social work, there will be people out there who don't want social work involvement and that should be their choice. Elderly or not, people should have a choice.
I had some dealings with supporting people in two previous jobs and although that isn't directly linked to this, it is about providing care and funding for people in certain accommodation and I can tell you that that was an administrative nightmare.
I agree completely with the above poster, have a look at the billions spent per year on arms, yet there isn't enough in the pot for care. A disgrace. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/17/2009 8:17:06 AM | i have read the up above link and thats mostly regarding getting the disabled back to work, nothing to do with attendance allowence or the carers allowence! this will be another trick as once you accept a job you wont be able to claim incap ben if done the road it dont work out, you will just get ub40 almost 30 pound short. the government want the disabled to go to work but dont they realise theres 3m out of work at the mo?? and imagine an employer putting up with hospital appointments and physio and not to mention when the disability kicks in bad and unable to leave the house. labour just havent got a clue!! and relying on the apathy or those who dont know whats going on to cheat there way through!
my local paper interviewed today, regarding the green paper and are going to investigate as well as the benefits site and local mp who refuses to answer my email, cannot think why! | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:25:12 PM |
once you accept a job you wont be able to claim incap ben if done the road it dont work out, you will just get ub40 almost 30 pound short
I don't know enough about Employment and Support Allowance to be able to be definitive about rates - but currently if you have claimed Incapacity Benefit in the last two years and come off it for any reason, then a new claim will be for IB not ESA, as IB claims have a linking period of 104 weeks. (And it's not UB or UB40, it's been JSA since 1996 - which incidentally pays a premium for those on higher rates of DLA care of about £30...)
the government want the disabled to go to work
I read it as enabling the disabled to go to work if that is right for their care assessment. That's probably my perception as not being one of those who's life (not lifestyle, but manner of living and construct of their future life) is being discussed and "put up for change".
The prevailing opinion is that one would be better off financially in work rather than out of it, it is also alleged to be better for one's physical and mental health. (The vagueness is because I cannot quote chapter and verse on that!)
The Disability Alliance webpage says that the Government has said that it doesn't see any changes as outlined in the Green Paper coming in within the next 5 years, so the jobs situation may well be different by then. Also as we move into the future there will be less of a population of working age so employers' attitudes may well change about having a part-time workforce and being prepared to make concessions to medical needs.
The Government (meaning the Civil Servants who devise these Papers and Bills) are, I think, facing up to realities a lot better than the rest of the population - the demographics where we just haven't had enough children (the replacement rate is 2.4 children per couple, it's currently 2.1 but that includes a much higher rate amongst the immigrant population, the indigenous population has only managed 1.9 children per couple) to support a large non-working population (the baby-boomer generation now reaching an extended retirement). I am not sure that their target groups are, though, the best way to tackle the problem - but what do I know? Small cog, big machine.
Already single parents are having to face up to JSA when their children are at a much younger age, and its requirements to look for and take up suitable employment. Interestingly, from anecdotal evidence only, they are finding part-time work based around school hours and school terms.
Perhaps "the disabled" is seen as the next target group to encourage back into the workplace (with appropriate support if the Welfare Reform Bill and whatever comes out of the Green Paper goes through).
It would be nice to see similar efforts, time and money being spent in helping the youngsters get work - the under-25s who cannot get work due to "no experience" in a time when employers believe they cannot afford to spend on workplace training. That's our lost generation - and another thread entirely. But if we ignore them, the funding problems highlighted in the Green Paper will seem small beer compared to what the situation will actually be 10-20 years down the line. | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 8/20/2009 3:40:00 PM | Of cause were an easy target as the government dont want to face up to reality!
its let down the pension pot, youngsters.
it would rather pay for bankers and the war machine and not very well!
people can blame child rates etc but the end of the day the old have paid there due! There is a fair few disabled who pay tax and will be affected, but who cares as most old/disabled are caught in trap 22 so make them a scapegoat  | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:14:06 AM | I have been thinking a lot over the last months about this thread. There has been a lot of discussion in the thread about what the Green Paper will mean for bureaucracy and for those who "may" lose control of their disability benefit income. But I wonder if it isn't more about funding a retirement that can be more than one-third of a person's life and involve a lot of care costs, which is currently means-tested.
Then there came a news item yesterday morning. It appears it isn't just the Labour Government that are looking carefully at how care in retirement is funded.
Plans to end the plight of tens of thousands of elderly people forced to sell their homes to pay the costs of residential care were announced today by the Tories.
Under the Conservatives' proposals, for a one-off payment of about £8,000, people in England would receive a guarantee that all fees for permanent residential care would be waived for the rest of their life.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-offer-home-protection-plan-for-residential-care-1797139.html
Interestingly, in searching for a weblink for this story I came across an earlier Tory proposal from 2004:
Michael Howard yesterday announced plans to stop thousands of pensioners having to sell their homes to pay for the cost of long-term care.
He said that if pensioners took out insurance covering the cost of three years in a care home, the Government would pay for them to stay after that, regardless of wealth.
The Tories will publish further details of their proposal later this year, although a party source claimed yesterday that a three-year insurance policy might cost between £20,000 and £30,000.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1471780/Tory-insurance-plan-for-long-term-care.html
(Isn't it intriguing how the cost of insurance has come down in Tory eyes the nearer they come to hustings-time?  )
Whichever Party wins the next election, it seems to me that besides the financial payback time that will have arrived, some fairly major changes are going to have to be made, not just to our system of social responsibility to the elderly, but also in our attitudes to retirement and to inheritance.
Perhaps instead of decrying the whole of the Green Paper, we ought to have given more thought to the problems it highlighted when it was in preparation.
IMHO | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:27:12 AM | this is the latest email ive recieved relevent to o.p and it looks like the its been thrown out. but the problem is the government refused to liason with all the elderly/disabled groups and went off on one thinking its a good idea! my local mp refused to answer about the paper even though it was in the local paper, but our tory canidate did, and showed concern and interest, which is what i want from a local mp and now will get my vote and a fair few others from the area.
In what may represent a dramatic victory for campaigners, Care Services Minister Phil Hope yesterday told a reporter at the Labour Party conference that DLA is not under threat by the care green paper.
According to the Disability Now website, Phil Hope, when asked if he would abolish DLA after the election, replied:
“No. All the models that we have done have not included DLA. But if people were to make a case to integrate DLA into a comprehensive system, then I'm very happy to hear that case and have those arguments.
"DLA is not under threat and people can be very happy".
For more details and our reaction, visit: www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/latest-news/1110-dla-is-not-under-threat----be-very-happy-says-government-minister
We know that some people will claim that the minister’s comments are evidence that campaigning to save DLA was unnecessary. It’s a claim, however, that can only be be made by ignoring such as the following.
1 Earlier this month the DWP press office said in relation to whether DLA would be scrapped: “It depends on what people say in the consultation. We need to see what people say when they respond.”
2 The same minister who is now saying DLA is not under threat wrote to MEP Liz Lynne just a fortnight ago stating that: “. . . this is a consultation exercise and no final decisions have been made about which disability benefits might be involved, or how they would be affected.”
3 The same minister also refused to rule out the possibility of DLA being axed in an interview earlier this month with Disability Now.
4 Last month CPAG claimed that it had received assurances from ‘senior sources’ at the DWP that DLA was not under threat. Just four days later CPAG revealed that it had “subsequently been contacted by the DWP who have said that no decisions have been taken as to the future of DLA whilst the consultation is ongoing.” CPAG then went off to lobby the Department of Health on the issue.
5 For almost two months national charities such as the MS Society have tried, but failed, to get clarification from the government as to whether DLA would be affected by the care green paper.
6 Just last week, David Behan, the Director General of Social Care at the Department of Health, published a blog post on the Big Care Debate website clearly trying to reduce the flood of hostile responses. He could have easily done so by saying outright that DLA would not be affected by the green paper – he didn’t.
The reality is that, if the government have now stepped back from an attack on DLA before the care consultation has even ended, it is because of the literally thousands of angry responses on the Big Care Debate website, the thousands of signatures on petitions, the torrent of angry letters to MPs, the motions before the Scottish and Welsh assemblies and the growing pressure from disability charities who were themselves under enormous pressure from outraged claimants.
It’s because the focus on the single issue of benefits is fast becoming a public relations disaster for a green paper signed by no fewer than six secretaries of state.
Above all, if there’s been a change of heart, it’s because you have fought so effectively to protect the benefits of disabled people.
Here at Benefits and Work we don’t know if the fight is yet over for DLA, but we do know for certain it’s only just begun for AA.
ill ask the mods if i can put up what the tory canidate sent me. | |
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| please can all those with disabled and elderly or carers of either, please read!!
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:54:01 AM | Excuse me Henxx, but the carer does not receive attendance allowance, the one who needs care receives it.
I am a care rfor my mum but as I am above retirement age, I receive no carers allowance, it was stopped the minute I started getting a pension.
My mum lives with me and I am here 24/7 with her for basically nothing, except the love and thanks I get from her.
As I said, it is my mum who receives attendance allowance, not me, the carer. | |
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| please can all those with disabled and elderly or carers of either, please read!!
Posted: 10/3/2009 10:00:29 AM | Why so angry? PSA - don't shoot the messenger.
Attendance Allowance - paid to enable the person "requiring someone in attendance" to pay the person in attendance. So your mother should pay you the AA.
Carer's Allowance - paid to compensate for "lost wages" because the carer cannot work full-time, NOT as a wage for caring.
The minute you claim Retirement Pension you tell the State you are not intending to work any more - so you aren't losing any wages by caring, so naturally the Carer's Allowance stops.
badge36: Good news! | |
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| Benefits Attendance Allowance & Disability Living Allowance - Proposed Government Reform
Posted: 10/8/2009 4:03:00 PM | I think the startling thing about all this is the number of people on benefits that dont actually get consulted by politicians that sit in an office debating what they think will make life better or easier for the people the decision affects the most!
I have come across many people who have talked about this issue recentky and the feelings range from fear of debt, fear of being forced back to work when they are not able to or not ready to because its the only way for the income to be livable and actual annoyance that the first they here on this issue is the tabloids headlines.
If the Government really thinks it is doing something so good for people on benefits when doid they actually ask the numerous people on here, that I have heard discussing this and those who are finding out as above????? | |
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