| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:33:45 AM | Sorry to burst your balloon Dakota but the coaches only coach it really is up to the players to play out the game. If they are not cutting it it does not matter how good the coach is.
Besides it is not unheard of as I am sure you sportster are aware of ... the players have been known to throw games to get rid of coaches or leaders. My partner has a theory but it all boils down to poor playing.
And Dakota the Bombers have not been cutting it for years when was the last time they won a grey cup?
Someone does not like the new coach all of a sudden. Wonder why? Someone on the team must have got their pee pee slapped. | |
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Posted: 8/17/2009 9:16:10 AM | Dakota Truck Country - you mention Kelly's hacking of a decent Bomber team - well you are wrong. Kelly began coaching a team that was built around Milt Stiegel and he no longer playing. Kevin Glenn was a hot/cold unreliable QB and this is verified by his terrible performance yesterday in the Saskatchewan/Hamilton game. I'm glad he is in Hamilton. Kelly has some serious rebuilding to do, with a lot of new players, including Bishop as the QB. My last post addressed that. We all know you have a "hate on" for Kelly, so you dont need to continue to point it out. Personally I'm still giving Kelly a chance, because I know from being a coach, how difficult changes can be in an organization.
Last nights game Saskatchewan/Hamilton was interesting and I was happy to see that Glenn is still an unreliable QB when the going gets tough. Releasing him from Wpg was a good thing. I was surpised how the dominance changed and Saskatchewan owned the first half and then the Ti-Cats came back in second half. Unfortunately Glenn let the team down and Saskatchewan won the game.
Its ok for Kelly to take the blame for the Wpg loss, but its a team thing and he needs to work out the confusion problems with Bishop and the entire team needs to perform starting at the opening kick off and not wait till the second half to begin to play. | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:57:57 AM | | How soon some forget last year's DISMAL effort up to the half way point...and they even had Milt back then! | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:35:16 PM | DakotaTruckCountry, you keep talking about Kelly dismantling the Bomber team - where were you last year when they were loosing - what team? What are you smoking out there in BC? 
Its not Kelly's fault that Dinwitty was not properly groomed, or given the experience he so badly needed. When it came to the stats Dinwitty was not performing on paper - end of story, he was gone. Kelly may not of had the desire or time to groom Dinwitty and that was his choice. Who knows the decision to get rid of Dinwitty may have come from higher up in the organizations.
What Kelly was saying about what he was going to do, might have been what he was told to say/do by the organization. One person can only do so much, and I believe that Kelly has been trying. He has admitted that he has made some mistakes, its not like he is the only coach to make mistakes. Who knows there may have been others in the organization who tried to get the head coach job and were unsuccessful - could this be pay back?
The Bombers Kelly got control of as head coach, was not in good shape. The QB was allowed to be hot/cold and the previous coach would not groom or play Dinwitty. The receivers were not catching when Glenn was on and many of the plays relied heavily on Steigel. The mistake made last year was that winning a game was left up to the defence and the kicker. Its an entire process made up of the different units or special teams - once the entire team gets motivated at the start of the game, and plays to their potential, then and only then, will we see more wins than losses. | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:21:13 PM | Where do I begin?
Today I don't know whether I should target Haywire of DTC ...but since doing that would be in appropriate I will TRY to0 avoid both.
Instead let me remind you of a few facts:
1) The Bomber team was not built around Stegal last year! Nope ! Nada !
If you will please remember there were two (or maybe even 3) recievers who got more yards than Stegal......the #1 was kicked off the team this year.
2) Last years offence actually wasn't too bad .....the problem there was that Charlie Roberts was not performing and Reid wasn't ready to take over.....once again the Offensive Line was suspect......AND games were lost because our Field Goal kicker couldn't hit the broad side of the barn?
3) Glenn appeared to have lost his magic but he was working good with Dinny and Dinny showed some good potential.
4)the biggest problem with the team was not the talent ...but rather it appeared to be a motivation problem...the players would perform well and then suck.....a sign of playing with negative emotions...fear...anger etc! | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:57:18 PM | So lets summarize what has happened this year:
The Bomber GM is demoted....and consequently quits ( did he see the ship sinking?)
Kelly is brought in touted as more of a "players coach"....HIRED BY BAUER!
THEN the cuts begin!
Kelly's biggest mistake (note below...he is only partially responsible for)...cut Experience(Glenn) and Promise (Dinwddy) and touted ...and I MEAN REALLY TOUTED (totally Kelly's fault) Lefors as the Bombers next messiah...and even an idiot should have seen that Lefors needed more time and an experienced QB behind him.
Hardly before the Bombers are out the gate....TWO CONTROVERSIES!
1) Our #1 reciever SUDDENLY has an attitude problem.....he could have been TRADED earlier before the season started if that was the case...but "NO!" We have too much pride (or was stupidity) for that. We sooner cut him once the season starts!
Whose decision is to hire and fire players? Alot of blame goes onto a coach...but in actuality its more the responsibilty of the G.M. So who is the one doing GM duties as well as President? BAUER!
2)A scout is caught taping an opposing team.....who is in charge of scouts? Is it the coach? Or is it the G.M.? I somehow think it is more the dept. of the GM. BAUER!
NOW!! I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ONE PERSON TO KEEP BLAMING KELLY FOR BRINGING IN BISHOP....nope! nada! It was Bauer's choice first...Kelly's second.
I told you exactly what you could of expect of Bishop...I have watched him for years....he is turning out exactly as I said (refer to previous deleted thread..oops I guess thats impossible)
.....I knew it! And I am an idiot! So what does that make Bauer and Kelly?
As far as Glenn, I think you were watching a different game than me when he played against Saskatchewan...he came in cold off the bench and within a Quarter of football he cut the Riders to pieces WHEN HE HAD THE WIND! And the Rider defence is pretty darn good.
However, ( you may not believe this) I SEE PROMISE IN THE PLAYERS ! They played with intensity...you have to remember this was MONTREAL ....
The team is about 3-4 players short of being great.....they need a #1 Reciever again! They need an experienced quarterback who is smart enough to read and adjust to Defences......and possibly a decent back up QB....and an experienced beef cake on the "O" Line (anyone know where Walby is!lol)
And frankly I believe if they could get those players, Kelly would be a good enough coach! Bauer, are you going to go get those players? That is the job of a GM!! | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:45:21 AM | I imagine this thread is going to be deleted too because of the long winded rants that don't really say anything new,but just keep repeating the same old thing over and over.
So the Bombers had a decent team last year? What was their record after the 1st 6 games? Think it was 0 and 6,if I remember right. Sure the Bombers made the playoffs,but the crossover system only means that the worst team in one conference is slightly better than the worst team in the other conference.
Did anybody catch the interview with Jeff Reinbold on CJOB Monday morning? He's coaching as an assistant in Texas now. He's never been a head coach since leaving Winnipeg. What I found interesting is that he said when he came to Winnipeg he felt he could turn the team into winners by "sheer force of personality". I wonder if Mike Kelly had some of the same ideas,maybe that by being a nice guy the players would respond more favorably and try harder to win games for him. Of course that seemed to win for Mike Riley. | |
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Posted: 8/18/2009 9:11:06 AM | One up - I totally agree with you. I also believe that Bauer is a wannabe coach and uses his position to manipulate the coach. I have said for years that its not the talent, its the front office that is creating a bad environment for the team to work properly.
Bishop has a good arm, but is having some communication and confusion problems. It would be interesting to see what Kelly plans to fix his problems. He also was not at training camp and that puts him behind, I think some people are forgetting that, but its not an excuse if he is unsure of what play to execute.
There would not be any QB sacks if the line did its job. I find that when the Bombers are not having a good game, they loose their steam and just keep doing what does not work, instead of using strategy to change their game. They also need to start playing at the opening kick off, instead of just watching and let the other team be the Alpha Male on the field, and then trying new things in the second half.
Tempt - it does not matter how many yards a receiver gets if the team is loosing or is fighting hard to be the worst in the league.
Dakota - its not fair to pick out token people to blame when its the entire team who consistantly looses. I think its great that you are a Bomber supporter, but you always seem to blame the coach and the QB, when its the entire team. How can a QB throw a completion if the line does not hold the other team back?
A coach has limits to what they can do, when the important decisions are being called from the front office and are not what he had planned to happen? I think its funny how so many other teams in the league have head coaches that are able to stay and build a good team, while the Bombers just keep changing head coaches. Its funny that other coaches have been able to get the job done, with other teams after they left Winnipeg. My thoughts are that its more about the crappy organization and Bauer than the coaches. I don't think it matter who they get as head coach, the results will be the same because nothing seems to fit properly and having players like Milt Stiegel still won't produce winning results. So, by method of deduction, I believe the problem is the organization and Bauer. I would almost like the Bombers to give him an opportunity to be head coach and then can his a$$, and do what is best for the organization.
What is with you always bringing up the old retired players/coaches. I'm sure you dissed them when they were playing, but now it appears that because they are retired or moved to other teams, they have become icons to you. They were here, now they are gone and I'm sure none of them would come back if they had the chance. Its nice to remember them but they have absolutely no significance in the problems the Bombers are facing this year. | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:06:13 PM | One up - I'm just shaking my head after your last post. You have your opinion and its carved in stone. Its hard to debate an issue when one person just editorializes media blurbs and omits facts.
Do you think anyone really cares what Kelly said on the day he was appointed head coach? It was fluff and who knows if his comments were handed to him by the front office just before camera time - I'm sure you don't know for sure. What counts is the number of games they win and their position in the standings.
Your continued comments about Kelly dismantling the Bombers, are not significant when you see where this team wound up last year - making the playoffs is no big deal as almost all teams make it to the play offs. Coming close to the target only counts in horseshoes or hand grenade throwing - regarding the Grey Cup or first place - its go big or go home. Stats speak louder than that and the Bombers just didnt have what it took to win the cup. So, in your mind any action taken by any coach would be wrong, because to you, the Bombers were a performing team. You make me laugh.
The Bomber organization wanted a different view and outcome from the coaching staff and they hired Kelly. I stated earlier that none of us know if there were any organization determined player cuts that were negotiated as part of things that Kelly had to carry out prior to being hired. Unless any of us were involved in the discussions that took place out of camera, none of us can say exactly what happened - its all speculation by all of us. | |
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Posted: 8/18/2009 9:01:08 PM | I too have questioned Kelly with some of the things he as said, but if I am not mistaken after the end of last season 90% of Winnipeg was calling for changes. Well changes were made and now that 90% is freaking out because the Bombers are 2-5. Remember the Bombers were 1-6 at this point last year.
Now the offense has sputtered and everyone has jumped down Kelly's throat for that and rightly so as he brought in 3 quarterbacks with very little CFL experience. On the other hand Kelly also made some major changes on defense and they are looking like a championship caliber defense. Kelly deserves credit for this change.
With this as much overhaul that the Bombers did in the off season there is no way that they can come in and gel and be productive, especially since the biggest change was at the most important position.
The best we can do is be patient and see how this all plays out. They may suck this year but next year they may be the talk of the CFL. Remember Dave Ritchie did not turn the Bombers into a contender in his first season but they went 14-4 the next.
Waiting sucks, the last sports team to win a championship in Winnipeg was the Goldeyes in 1994, but at this point we really don't have a choice. | |
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Posted: 8/18/2009 10:07:16 PM | Santek, I agree whole heartedly with your suggesting a team needs time to rebuild...and rebuilding doesn't works over night. But Analyze This!
What has Kelly done good?
He has connected with what appears to be one of the best defensive coachs since Richie Hall (Edmonton's coach)
He has taken the blame on his shoulders instead of looking for excuses or blaming others (Berry was not quite as responsible)
He stuck with a young kicker and let him find his groove.
While making alot of cuts to the defence he(with help) was able to make it even stronger.
What mistakes did he make?
He didn't identify early enough the #1 reciever last year as being a "problem player"....or did that reciever see the stupid decisions being made and just couldn't stand by and say nothing??
He cut Experience and Promise at QB! Replaced it with Inexperience and Unproven .
He dissed the fans!(why? Because they questioned him on his decision about Lefors)
He may have been responsible for spy gate.
He showed little respect for the media ( our source for information about the Bombers)and walked out on them volatilily when they pushed him on spy gate. What the hell did he think...we should just pretend it never happened?
BUT why do so many of you (Haywire excepted...thanks for the support) fail to see that YOU CANNOT ALWAYS BLAME ONE COACH AFTER ANOTHER WITHOUT EVENTUALLY LOOK AT WHO IS HIRING THOSE COACHS. Bauer is good at marketing but is his football decisions sound?
The Winnipeg organization knew Berry was gone early last year....they must have had a chance to pick up Richie Hall for a head coach.....why didn't they? Look at what he has brought to Eskimos!!
My recommendation for everyone is: Quit looking at one particular play! Quit looking at one particular game! Quit looking at one particular season ! Quit looking at one particular decision!
LOOK AT ATTITUDE! LOOK AT THE TEAM AND ORGANIZATIONAL PERSONALITY!
Is it a positively motivated team.???.does the organization show pride but also respect for fans? ...does the organization appear to have the respect of the rest of the league?
If you don't like what you see, then you are seeing why a team is not a consistently competitive team. | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 9:23:25 AM | Santek I agree with your post entirely.
Temp you have some good points, but I disagree with your comment about the QB. I am glad that Kevin Glenn left and I believe that Bishop has a better arm than Dinwitty, so I'm ok with giving Bishop a chance. I do believe that Kelly and Bishop should be working really hard getting him familiar with the CFL and up to speed, as this excuse will not be acceptable next year.
I agree with your comments about the organization - I have been saying that for years, and I really hope some major changes take place when the Asper Group take over the operations of the Bombers. You are so right about people laying blame on plays, the head coach and the QB. I'm not saying they are all perfect and never make mistakes, but there has to be some other reason why there is no sprit and enthusiam in the team when they represen this City/Province in the CFL.
I don't think it was a mistake to let Armstrong go if there was an attitude problem, and unfortunately we don't know exactly what the reasons were that Armstrong was let go. There could have been many reasons.
I think the biggest problem the Bombers have is with starting - the players don't seem to get motivated till the second half of the game and by then, its too late to win as the other side is not prepared to give up the lead on the scoreboard. | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 10:23:46 AM | Armstrong got what he deserved IMO; you don't turn your back on your team...period! He didn't get benched, they just couldn't start him cause of the import ratio due to some injuries. He felt he was OWED and decided not to play when asked. You may not like what a coach has to do, but you NEVER turn your back on your team. Obviously even after they dealt with it, Armstrong still had issues and if you listen to the rumor mill, they just about traded blows with one another.
If Armstrong is all that, where's he playing now? Hmmmm...NOWHERE! | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 10:42:38 AM | I've tried to stay away from this thread, because as others are now discovering, trying to debate anything with the Rainman is completely pointless.
However, I just had to comment on what Dano said.........
A couple of weeks ago, Doug Brown wrote in his weekly column in the Free Press about how Armstrong basically quit on his team.......his apparently fragile ego couldn't handle going in as a sub, and not starting......Brown basically called Armstrong a quitter and said that he lost the respect of his team mates after that stunt.....so if anyone thinks that Kelly ran him out of town for any reason other than the fact that Armstrong acted in a selfish, self absorbed way that was not conducive to him being part of a team........think again! | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 3:51:53 PM | Chucknorris1 - I didnt see Doug Browns column, or if I did, I forgot. You are absolutely right - no team needs that type of arrogance. Dano's comments are on the money as well.
Now about rainman...............good similie. | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 5:55:08 PM | RE: Derek Armstrong
There are two sides in this for me...
On the one hand I feel like the rest of you do. He quit on the team for selfish reasons and he got what he deserved.
On the other hand, there is not a time when we have not felt that we were being treated right by the organization that we work for. I saw an interview on CKY the day before Derek was cut and he was crying saying that he knew he made a mistake and would accept responsibility for his actions. I wonder if the Bombers had not just reprimand him or suspended him for a couple of games if there was no way that Armstrong could not have gone into the dressing room, apologized to his coach and teammates and then gone out and proved he wanted to be a Bomber.
I saw that in him from that interview and I bet having a committed Armstrong sure would help this receiving core that only has Edwards to throw to. | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 6:02:36 PM | Ya but people! Armstrong is gone ! Right?
Why? Because he is a "quiter"?
I hardly think so....I remember the spectacular plays he made....He laid out and made alot of things happen WHEN THIS TEAM WAS DOWN ! So don't tell me he "quits" when things get rough!
AND I AGREE WITH YOU ! He had to be cut!.... Or traded! No One Is Arguing THAT Point! Once it went as far as it did , its too late!
But my question is and has always been ....why now after the season started ?
Like Westwood with Berry....WHY was it such a controversy AFTER the season started? WHY was it not dealt with before?
I hate to suggest this but some of you have very short memories and I don't think you fully appreciate how much sacrifice and effort some players have put in.
Remember Charlie Roberts ? TRADED AWAY part way thru the season...and THEN all the rumors come out about his smoking and his partying before games. THEN he was a jerk!
These guys don't just SUDDENLY become non-performers....un-motivated...poor characters over night.
It is the responsibilty of the coaches to identify NEGATIVITY in the locker room and weed it out (through discussions with the GM)...THEN its up to the GM to get his scouts out looking and signing new POSITIVE talent....instead of sending his scouts out to film other teams practices! | |
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Posted: 8/19/2009 6:24:39 PM |
Ya but people! Armstrong is gone ! Right?
Why? Because he is a "quiter"?
I hardly think so.
Well, don't take offense to what I'm about to say, Tempt..........but I think the words of someone who is actually in the locker room (Doug Brown in his column) has a lot more weight to it than your theories. He called Armstrong out in the paper.......he never called Westwood out in the paper when all the crap was flying......so for a team-mate to actually put something in print like that.....that tells me that the situation with Armstrong was pretty serious. And as for why it wasn't dealt with before the season.......maybe Armstrong wasn't a problem until he was asked to "not start"......once he became a problem, Kelly really didn't have any choice.......to keep Armstrong would have sent an awful message to his team, so I think Kelly was backed into a corner. I agree with Santek that Armstrong might help the offense......too bad he let his ego get in the way and threw his own career under the bus.
I hate to suggest this but some of you have very short memories and I don't think you fully appreciate how much sacrifice and effort some players have put in.
Sorry, think you're off the mark here too. Ya, there were all sorts of things said about Roberts.....but those things were being said long before he was traded...........he was a superstar even with all his lifestyle choices, he would have likely had another 5 years of that level of performance if he paid more attention to his body. You seem to be the one who forgets all the missed flights, problems with coaches, etc. that was happening through the first five years or so of his career. Had Bauer and Taman not believed in him, he never would have made it through the first few years of his career with his attitude as it was.
We keep bringing up players who aren't here anymore..........maybe we should be focused on the ones who are here instead. | |
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| CFL Football 2009
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:24:32 PM | | I for one am glad to hear that Siddeeq Shabazz is suppose to be back on the field this Friday. He had a few great games before being hit with an injury...I'm sure he'll be kickin' some ass! | |
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Posted: 8/20/2009 6:56:56 PM | Chuckie , don't take offence but you mustn't read all of what I wrote...thats ok i know it is long and takes extra-ordinary skill to read it all.
I am not disputing Brown's comments....infact you will see I agree with him.....but how can you so slightly dismiss this all on Armstrong?
If it was one poor lapse of judgement ...it is nothing to make an issue about....(note earlier comments about not looking at one play, one game, one decision).....its all these "lapses" in poor judgement that are adding up to a rotten fish stinking smell.
And I find it funny you say you disagree with my comment about some having "bad memories".....because your comment actually supports my point about Bauer, Taman? Berry? Kelly? hanging on to players maybe they shouldn't be hanging on to. If players like Roberts and Armstrong had bad attitudes then they should have been cut long ago.....or at least traded for a 10th round draft pick or something.
Frankly, I see decisions being made Like this :
" Lets not trade Roberts (inspite of his antics) because if we do fans will get angry and not buy as many season tickets......lets keep Armstrong until the season starts and then we will have our season tickets sold for the year, and seeing we cut nearly everyone else we don't want to pee off the fans more."
I personally think decisions are made :
MARKETING #1
fielding the best team #2
I am sorry to compare, but I saw the same thing in Saskatchewan and until they cleaned out the top brass the team wallowed with inconsistencies, turn stile coaches, and poor standings in the league. | |
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Posted: 8/20/2009 6:59:09 PM | Oh and Dano, sorry! SideeQ is such a good player.....I sure hope he gets back in full force.....
and I vote for him as having the funkiest football name in football!
SSssaabbbbazzzzzzz!!! | |
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Posted: 8/20/2009 7:50:55 PM | | I think the Bombers just put up with the antics of Roberts anyway, until he stopped producing. Really. Like where is he now? | |
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Posted: 8/21/2009 7:23:38 AM | No problem, Tempt.........I had my 10 year old step-daughter go back and translate your post for me!
Who said Armstrong was a problem all along? Maybe it was one isolated incident, that was unfortunately so appalling that they had to cut him right away. Isn't that what you're looking for - as soon as they find a "bad attitude", Kelly cut him.
As for Roberts, actually, you're proving my point. Don't forget, Roberts' antics were in place before he was even a proven starter.........his first couple of years he saw spot duty and returned kicks. So he was given the chance to mature, which for the most part he did.........and turned into one of the best running backs this league ever saw. If Bauer et al were worried about marketing vs. fielding the best team, wouldn't you think they would have just cut him loose long before he took over as the number one running back? I would say, they saw the potential and believed in him, and lo and behold they were rewarded with his performance. In other words, they put fielding the best team possible ahead of marketing concerns.
Look, Tempt......you and I can go back and forth on this forever.........but at the end of the day, neither you nor I actually knows what goes on in the locker room, the coach's office, and the front office. All we can do is speculate.
In my opinion.....have the Bombers made some poor moves? Absolutely! But is it the result of not putting the on-field product as the priority as you suggest? That's where you and I really disagree. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2009 11:43:17 AM | What,no posts yet about last nights game? Maybe everybody couldn't get on POF either.
By the sounds of things I missed a heck of a game. It seems the offence finally came together and played as they're capable of. Let's see if they continue this way for the rest of the season. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2009 3:11:05 PM | TwoShadows you missed 2 good games.
The Riders at Al's game was really good, and I almost felt sorry for the Riders and their main supporter TemptYourKharma - not!
The Al's certainly dominated the game and I was amazed with all the interceptions.
Watching the Bombers was a pleasant surprise, as they dominated the Lions. It was great the Reed broke the old record of most yards in a game, and I was sorry that there was a penalty against Wpg on Reed's first record breaking attempt, as the interception and TD run would have been a nice way to celebrate that event. However, the actual record making run that counted, was not so dynamic but none the less something to be proud of.
I was impressed with the protection Bishop had from the line, as it was not perfect, but it was a definite improvement from the last few games. I can only see this line getting stronger with more work. It would be really nice if they were better able to read the plays of the other teams. By studing the plays of previous games that they were not so strong on would certainly benefit them and together with the coaches could create some great ides to improve their line and dominate the other team.
The cuts and choices Kelly has made might not have made some people in the forums happy, but I still stand behind his choices, as last nights game showed that ability of the players on this team. It was great to see the Bombers out and performing at the start of the game, get points on the scoreboard, and not fading in the second half.
Great Job Bombers...............whatever you have been doing from the last game, don't stop as you seem to have found a formula for success. Don't get arogant and stop the work as your performance will suffer. I am happy to be a Bomber Fan based on your performances yesterday. Keep up the great work! | |
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