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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:55:25 AM |
A unattractive man on the other hand will most likey never get hit on but if he go's and tries to pickup on a girl, he may never get any girl.Which is why I honestly feel looks matter more to females.
More so today that looks matter more to women than in the past. Is why alot of women want the hot guy. As I got older, now 40, I realized being an average looking guy gets you alot of female friends, not many dates or any relationships, because the lack in looks does not attrract them. And unless you got the money to have some work done, then we have to make do with the looks we have.
Looks gets a guy in the door as women say. But lack in looks gets the door slammed in your face...now unless you are willing to feely spend your money from the get go on her, then an avaerage looking guy may have a chance at at least a date, if he tells her he would like to take her out for dinner and drinks and mention a nice place.
The guys with the good looks do not need to be going that extra mile, they are already in the door and she is already physically interested.
Many women will deny this, only because it would look bad on women if alot admitted that yes you better be a really good looking guy or else you are not going to get my attention.
Looks can be subjective, and sure alot of women will say on here that thier taste in men is different than thier friends' taste. But at the sametime it is selling yourself on a forum too, so again of course a ton of women will not admit it. Human nature.
Just like saying not that many women over 40 prefer younger men, but when you are out in the real world, you see it more and if you know women that age that are single, they usually agree that yes younger men are the best men.
So in all honesty, in the end women have it easier. They just make it harder for themselves is all. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:37:47 AM |
More so today that looks matter more to women than in the past. Is why alot of women want the hot guy. As I got older, now 40, I realized being an average looking guy gets you alot of female friends, not many dates or any relationships, because the lack in looks does not attrract them.
Women were big on attraction years ago too...it's not a new thing. Where do you think the phrase "learn to love" came from? Often women had to marry by a certain age and had to work with what options they had. The best option for them financially or family wise wasn't always the best looking - but women can't go with attraction if they are on a deadline and have to prioritize security of themselves and possible children.
So most went with the best they could at the time and either learned to tolerate the sex (or had kids and got out of it - a knocked up woman was less likely to go anywhere), or they ended up lusting after some gardner, mechanic, pool boy, etc. Some had affairs. A woman who married a secure man from a "good" family (according to what your family knew) with a portfolio AND she actually was hot for him was a bonus.
Now, women can look for attraction because they're able to make their own money, don't have to get married and can wait for what they want to come along. If it never does, they're less worried about it. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:18:04 AM | That is why I say that Average Looking Men have no chance in the dating scene in the long run. Unless he has money, he is not good enough. But women refuse to agree or say this, my guess is because they do not want themselves to look shallow, when in fact all they would be doing is making things a whole lot easier for themselves as the average looking guys would finally realize they are not worth the time of day.
Imagine women not having to put up with ugly, average undesirable men approaching them? I think that would be a blessing in disguise.
But instead men for some reason think they can get the attention of all women, and this ends up annoying women more and more.
Maybe I am one of a slect few guys who realize he is 40, undesirable, average looking and is not dating material. I am not ashamed to admit it, nor am I putting myself down.
reality sucks, but we all have to deal with it.
I just think if women would make it more known that they want above average looks, then men wouldn't be misled to think they have a chance all the time.
Women make thier own money, drive thier own cars, own thier own houses/condos, still want a guy to spend his money on her. Now if only women would be more forward to admitting they want perfection, then things will be so much easier for you. Until then...expect the many undesirable men to keep on asking you out. Make it easier for you, you know that women hold the power in dating..the final decision is yours ladies we know it, even if many deny it. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:30:20 AM | I just think if women would make it more known that they want above average looks, then men wouldn't be misled to think they have a chance all the time.
I think the fact that average guys arent getting all the action they think they should be, should be somewhat telling about what women want. OH, you want us to walk around with big signs saying that ugly men arent appealing to us....
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:36:16 AM | So, from looking at these last few posts the following point seems to be being made.
If you're not a good looking (read: Hot) guy....you might as well just blow your brains out because you're NOT going to get a woman.
Well....that seriously fvcks up the gene pool.
I used to sit around and whine, too. "Oh I'm not good looking....I'm not rich....I don't have a Hercules body....yada,yada,yada.
But one day I said, "Y'know? Screw this...I may not be as good looking...but I'm smarter than Fabio....I may not be rich....but I'm a lot nicer to people that that guy....Okay I don't have a Hercules body.....but.....okay, yeah, I don't have a Hercules body. (lol)
The point being......I AM ME. Nobody else. I may not have all those desired traits. But I can make anyone laugh or smile. I do listen, not just nod my head and grunt in the right places. We all have traits that make us someone special to SOMEONE out there. Not all women want Fabio....not all women want Bill Gates (okay, skip that one, money does talk) and not all women want a Hercules.
Sometimes they just want someone who will be there. Who will listen.
Rambling over. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:55:21 AM | | All I hear when I read this post is Waa Wa Waa Waaaa (think charlie brown's teacher). Seriously? What the hell does it matter who does what? I have never let silly issues like this define me. I am outgoing and have never had a problem going up and talking to a guy I think is cute. Maybe the problem has to do with her preference in men and has nothing to do with you doing all the work. This sounds to me like a whiney thread and you arent heading in the right direction with a whiney thread. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 11:56:11 AM | think the fact that average guys arent getting all the action they think they should be, should be somewhat telling about what women want. OH, you want us to walk around with big signs saying that ugly men arent appealing to us....
Finally a woman who said perfect. It does tell you that average looking guys are in fact NOT appealing nor desirable. Now if only more women would be this way then dating would be so much easier for those in it. Knowing what is within reach and what isn't.
Be blunt to men and say "You're ugly, get lost" instead of letting someone down easy. It is not being polite, it is just sugarcoating a no and making yourself come across nice.
I would rather a woman sato me I am ugly than a polite "Not interested" because how am I to know why? When you know why, makes you look at yourself and say "Maybe I am not cut out for this"
Unless women enjoy the game of having undesirable men approach them so they can shoot them down. But I think that gets tiring and annoying no?
Women have thier independance, the power, jobs, houses, cars...now they need a man who is good looking , spends his money on her and rocks her world in bed. Then she has found perfection. Easy to obtain ladies, if you just be truthful to men and not sugarcoat things.
I don't see how this is a whiney thread. Unless it is custom for women to enjoy rejecting men and seeing them think they deserve to date this woman or that woman. Other than that, the truth is women are not being upfront about looks in men. And until then, many of us average looking guys will sadly think we have a chance. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:08:26 PM | I don't see how this is a whiney thread.
sounds to me like..(insert whiney voice here)..I HAVE to do all the work...I HAVE to ask her out...Why cant SHE ask me out...Why is this so much work...Why cant I get dates...blah, blah, blah. No women what to date a guy that whines about silly issues. To me looks are one thing...but they arent everything. I would much rather be with someone who has average looks and is laid-back then someone who is hot but uptight about all he HAS to do to date me. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:19:46 PM | OP, Yeah i think you are right in saying that to a certain degree. It has always been about the man chasing the woman but however i have gradually be noticing that when i am out, sometimes a woman will make the first move although this is very rare. I can totally see where you are coming from though.
I know it can kinda suck but just be yourself and confident if you can. Theres always going to be competition for women and sometimes it can be hard to get a look in especially if some of the guys are really good looking as if i am being honest, physical attraction is the first thing everybody looks for then personality.
I have only been on this site for just over a week and i am finding it difficult getting a conversation going because most women don't reply. I think my profile & photos are good and i have been checking out some blokes profiles (im not gay) near where i live so i can see what the competition is like and there is not much so i am finding it a bit difficult to understand why women are not responding when we have various things in common etc.
You sound a bit frustrated which is understandable but hang in there and you never know who you might meet. Good luck man. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:23:48 PM |
All I hear when I read this post is Waa Wa Waa Waaaa (think charlie brown's teacher). Seriously? What the hell does it matter who does what? I have never let silly issues like this define me. I am outgoing and have never had a problem going up and talking to a guy I think is cute. Maybe the problem has to do with her preference in men and has nothing to do with you doing all the work. This sounds to me like a whiney thread and you arent heading in the right direction with a whiney thread.
I agree. But this is rather common among both men and women. We think the problems we experience are caused by others rather than looking at ourselves, conducting an honest evaluation and determining OUR problem.
In this instance, I think this whole thread boils down to one thing: lack of confidence.
Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But the problems in most "romantic" relationships usually all come back to confidence issues and a lack self confidence is normally the #1 culprit. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:46:25 PM | I think my profile & photos are good and i have been checking out some blokes profiles (im not gay) near where i live so i can see what the competition is like and there is not much so i am finding it a bit difficult to understand why women are not responding when we have various things in common etc.
See this to me is an average male thought process. Not to pick on this fellow but it is a good example. I have yet to meet a man that actually doesnt think he is the best thing since sliced bread, doesnt think he will rock my world, doesnt think he is a sexual god, doesnt think he is good looking, doesnt think that all he needs is a coupel of hours to convince me that he is right for me, etc, etc. Its amost border line on delusional. I am not talking about having a healthy self esteem, way beyond that, in their minds they are gods.....The fly in the ointment is that many men forget that they dont get to decide who is interested in them, who finds the attractive or thinks they are good in bed. WOMEN get to do that! And I think that is what frustrates some men, because in their minds they are the cats pyjamas, so they deserve what ever they want. It couldnt possible be that they arent all of those things to that particular woman, NO, she is a self entitled, snotty ****, that doesnt know what she is missing!
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:56:31 PM |
See this to me is an average male thought process. Not to pick on this fellow but it is a good example. I have yet to meet a man that actually doesnt think he is the best thing since sliced bread, doesnt think he will rock my world, doesnt think he is a sexual god, doesnt think he is good looking, doesnt think that all he needs is a coupel of hours to convince me that he is right for me, etc, etc. Its amost border line on delusional. I am not talking about having a healthy self esteem, way beyond that, in their minds they are gods.....The fly in the ointment is that many men forget that they dont get to decide who is interested in them, who finds the attractive or thinks they are good in bed. WOMEN get to do that! And I think tht is what frustrates some men, because in their minds they are the cats pyjamas, so they deserve what ever they want. It couldnt possible be that they arent all of those things to that particular woman, NO, she is a self entitled, snotty ****, that doesnt know what she is missing!
You know, oddly enough, if you flip the references to "men" to "women" and "women" to "men" it all still stands true. For instance, every woman I have ever been in a relationship with has told me I could never find a better gal than her. And I know women also think they're ll sexual goddesses, that they're good looking, that they have the best body and only a couple of hours beneath the sheets with her would make me realize it all. And when I, or other men don't see that in them, we're just arrogant, self-absorbed, vain pricks that don't know what we're missing!
It's human nature - not a male or female thing.
I think it's good to be outwardly confident and inwardly arrogant. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:11:02 PM | See this to me is an average male thought process. Not to pick on this fellow but it is a good example. I have yet to meet a man that actually doesnt think he is the best thing since sliced bread, doesnt think he will rock my world, doesnt think he is a sexual god, doesnt think he is good looking, doesnt think that all he needs is a coupel of hours to convince me that he is right for me, etc, etc. Its amost border line on delusional. I am not talking about having a healthy self esteem, way beyond that, in their minds they are gods.....The fly in the ointment is that many men forget that they dont get to decide who is interested in them, who finds the attractive or thinks they are good in bed. WOMEN get to do that! And I think that is what frustrates some men, because in their minds they are the cats pyjamas, so they deserve what ever they want. It couldnt possible be that they arent all of those things to that particular woman, NO, she is a self entitled, snotty ****, that doesnt know what she is missing!
Now if only more men would see this!! I know I am not going to rock some woman's world in bed, I suck in the sack. How do I know? Women told me that already, last one was 3 years ago. I said thanks, now I know what not to be doing...having sex.
I know I am not that great looking, why? Women told me, have since I was in my teens, just I was stupid to take to 40 years old to realize "Damn women were so right" but hey now I know right?
See when a man says these things about himself, he is thinking negative, putting himself down. But when he thinks he is all that..he is viewed as arrogant.
It is so easy for women yet they make it so hard for themselves.
A woman would rather have a hot looking guy who is arrogant, than an average looking guy is isn't. She will always be interested because of those great looks he has.
A woman aure wouldn't want to wake up beside the guy she dates and look at him and think "Why do I like him again? Oh ya because he is a decent man" BORING.
She wants to wake up beside him and think "Wow he is so hot" Keeps her interested.
Being great in bed is what women want, it may take 2 to tango, but only one can suck in bed and usually that neds up being the guy. And men seem to think they are gods in bed, when so many are duds.
Nice to see that at least one woman, Grizzelda, on here speaks the truth about the average looking guys. Now if only more would step up and be honest, or do you prefer to get 50 messages a day from average looking undesirable men? It is up to you ladies to keep it easy and simple for yourselves...just tell us guys the truth.
I won't dare talk to most women if I am at all at a bar, I can tell immediately by looking at her if I am at all her type. I would rather look at them, admire them and leave it at that. Why waste her time and mine knowing the outcome? Average looking guys are not appealing... | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:12:53 PM | | @grizzelda, I'm going to quibble ever so slightly. I think lots of men think in the manner you've laid out, but they don't believe it. Deep down, they know that they aren't all that. Face it, if you are an excellent swimmer, are you going to be afraid to go in the water? I don't think so. If a man knows he is the cat's pajamas, is he going to have to get drunk before approaching a woman to talk to her or be afraid to say hello? No, he isn't. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:27:52 PM |
Nice to see that at least one woman, Grizzelda, on here speaks the truth about the average looking guys.
I think its funny, because to tend to hear what you want to hear. I DETEST arrogant guys...and I know lots of women that are the same way. In my experience it is the hottest guys that are the mose arrogant. Looks only get you so far and although they are the initial attraction you have to have a great personality first and foremost.
A woman would rather have a hot looking guy who is arrogant, than an average looking guy is isn't. She will always be interested because of those great looks he has.
A woman aure wouldn't want to wake up beside the guy she dates and look at him and think "Why do I like him again? Oh ya because he is a decent man" BORING.
She wants to wake up beside him and think "Wow he is so hot" Keeps her interested.
I am not sure what women you are referring to but this is complete BS to me. There has to be something brought to the table other than looks. Actually, pretty boys are too high maintence for me. They can be selfish and conceeded and I dont have time to deal with boy drama. Give me a real man that hunts and fishes...that gets dirty and makes me feel like the most beatiful women on the earth and I am a happy women. You really have to stop focusing on looks...it sounds so juvenial. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:42:56 PM | If getting a job for a woman was like dating, women would not even need a resume! All she would have to do is walk into the place of business and cruse by the counter to see if the personel manager would notice her and try to recruit her. Then, she could not give an answer right then and there, oh no. The personel manager would have to ask her for her phone number. Finally, the manager would have to call her and ask her to come back in for an interview! All this work and constant risk of rejection, just to find out that only 6 - 15 out of 100 would be willing to work, and finally, only finding 2-5 out of 100 who could actually do the job.
Tell me again, who has to work harder and face more rejection, men or women?! Do you get it?!
Men have to ask more, so face more rejection, and rejection is the hardest part of dating and relationships.
The biggest problem with dating and relationships today is men being too easy (they don't know what the heck else to do?!), and too many women who are spoiled brats. Do you smell what I'm cooking?! | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:55:39 PM |
The biggest problem with dating and relationships today is men being too easy (they don't know what the heck else to do?!), and too many women who are spoiled brats. Yeah that is very true. I even admit to coming across to easy sometimes and i did not even know it until the woman said. Tell me again, who has to work harder and face more rejection, men or women?! Do you get it?!
I totally get what you mean there. Of course men have to work harder and therefore that results in getting more rejects. I am not beig biased just because i am a bloke but surely women can understand this from a mans point of view. You learn over time to move on once you get rejected but of course the initial first time you get rejected it can knock your confidence alot.
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:01:36 PM | yes, I would tend to agree with you. But what you said is only valid for good-looking women. The rest have a hard time.
It is not difficult for confident and respectful men either. It's just a typical dilemma: Beauty, Brain, Confidence and Style Win.
Personally, I find introverted and shy men more attractive than outgoing ones.
Yes, I am a spoiled brat and I like to be treated as such, so what???? Got a problem with that? Life is not fair or just. It's a lesson I got when I was 6 y.o.
But why complain? It's what it is. Reality sucks. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:21:39 PM |
You know, oddly enough, if you flip the references to "men" to "women" and "women" to "men" it all still stands true. For instance, every woman I have ever been in a relationship with has told me I could never find a better gal than her. And I know women also think they're ll sexual goddesses, that they're good looking, that they have the best body and only a couple of hours beneath the sheets with her would make me realize it all. And when I, or other men don't see that in them, we're just arrogant, self-absorbed, vain pricks that don't know what we're missing!
I agree that you could flip it around in certain cases. However for me, time and actually listening to what people had to say in forums has made me look at things differently and change.
For instance. Years ago, I had a relationship where the sex was bad. Did I blame it on him? Yes, at first. But then I realized that I WAS responsible for my own sex life. What did I do? I researched, learned about myself and started to force myself to talk about sex. I can outdo most of my friends in my knowledge about sex. However, do I think I'm a sexual goddess? NO, I don't because there is always more to learn and each person is different and some people just don't fit together. Men are taught from society and porn that they are supposed to know what they are doing. This is a lot of pressure on a young man. Many men go through life not really getting what they should be doing and since women are taught that "sex is dirty"; nobody ends up being able to really communicate about it. I went through that, but I woke up and worked on it instead of complaining. Men always try to brag about their prowess in bed. Doing that is a big nono, because you eventually have to prove it.
I also stopped going to places where I knew there were men I was never interested in, and joined new groups which could afford me new opportunities.
I changed the way I did things in some aspects of dating and I started accepting that men will be different in some areas than women are. I stopped worrying and complaining about men only wanting sex.
I have never told a man I was good in bed, I'm not stupid enough to think that my performance won't give that away. I'm not stupid enough to think that a man can't find a woman better than me. I don't have the best body or am the most attractive around, but I know I am attractive to some men, just as some men are attractive to me and some men have found I have a great body, while others will not.
And to reiterate, I don't think that a man is a vain-self absorbed prick when he is not interested in me. I'm not interested in some people and I don't consider myself a bad person. I accepted long ago that not everyone is going to want me.
Am I just ahead of my time because I know these things? I don't think so.
And who cares why someone is rejecting you on here? Besides, one should be able to learn from the forums what they might be doing wrong. I did and continue to do so. It's not facking rocket science. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:44:30 PM | If you read the OP's history, he's worse than a broken record. The same statement over and over. Incredible.
I have been the 'pursuer' in every relationship I've had. I did the asking out. It's not a big deal. When I was having no luck with guys, I looked within myself and looked honestly at what I was doing, saying, thinking and tried to make positive changes. I did not whine endlessly on the forums about how unfair things are. I DID something about it.
I believe, and this might come off as harsh, that some people (men and women) at times in their lives are undateable. This could be a temporary state - like they just got out of a long term relationship and are recovering...or this could be a longer state - like they persist in a certain line of thinking and refuse to evaluate their lives, situations, wants, etc...
Women are not the gatekeepers to your happiness OP. Women/girls are not responsible for keeping men/boys fed, happy, dating, or laid. YOU are responsible for your own life happiness and what you get. If YOU choose to whine incessantly on a forum and repeat yourself, that's your business, but it won't help you in any way.
What do you want OP? A pity date? Would that make you feel better to know that someone was only going out with you because they feel badly for you? Or, would you rather someone date you because they want to? So, do something to make yourself dateable. Stop whining, stop approaching women just to ask for a date and practice your conversation skills with many sorts of people, do something to get your confidence up, get away from the computer and these forums.
In this life, you're not owed a date, a kiss, pity, a fck, or love. You make your own life. Good luck. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:51:52 PM | | I must say, reading through some of the posts and not all given the length of the whole thread but one observation that i have noted is that a lot of people don't seem to just like people and chatting with them. There seems to be this criteria that needs to be met before anyone will talk to anyone and this makes me wonder whether this is evident to other people which makes people less approachable through there body language. I'm not sure how a persons body language changes when they appear to have an ulterior motive but maybe that affects things. Just thinking out loud. | |
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| I think Girls have it a lot easier than Guys when it comes to Love, Dating, Relationships, etc.
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:28:03 AM | OP
Theres one thing missing from your post. Why you think it's hard for men and how you determine that it's easier for women. Ya ya I see the BS about how men are "supposed to do the approaching" and the women can "just sit there and accept or reject"
I've been having a hard time STAYING SINGLE for god sakes. I dumped my ex because she was cheating and literally that day a girl who was looking at renting a room in my house says to me, "Well, even if I dont end up taking the room, you want to go for coffee sometimes? You seem like a really cool genuine guy."
I took her up on it and now five weeks later I got myself a girlfriend. I'd say that pisses on your deduction that women never do the approaching. Although you may be right.. to this day she still doesn't consider our first meeting a "date". Lol. I did.
What I have found changed my success rate with women was my mindset. When I dry as a bone (or my bone was dry.. or whatever.. I was single for a long time) I'd enter a bar or a room or whatever and hang with my buddies and then single out some girl to hit on and try to get "in with". Rarely if ever worked. Why? Because instead of just "talking" to the women I went straight in for the kill. Women can sense when they're being treated like a target and then their "not interested" light dings on and then you're screwed. Waste the rest of the night trying to get her interested and you're going home to Lefty and another issue of Spank.
However, if you dont fret about picking up ANY GIRL AT ALL, and just linger around, talking to as many women as you like without trying to pick any of them up... one or two will give you the signals that they really like talking to you and will start hanging around a lot more. THEN you can move in and start showing interest and see if they bite; if they bite then you spend the rest of the evening talking to her and whammo... next thing you know you got her life history, her home phone number, her work schedule for the next few weeks, her life goals when she wants to get married and a voicemail on your answering machine by the time you get home thanking you for the great evening and how she was SOOOO GLAD SHE MET YOU.
Lol, sounds like your trying way too hard buddy, try the above technique, may not bag one the first time around, but trust me, you swath enough women like that and you'll tag and bag right quick and you'll end up with a girlfriend in no time. You'll actually end up having a hard time choosing which one... because you may not be used to having more than one girl interested in you at a time. Just remember: one at a time big boy... they have a womens' union and if they find out your playing more than one then you're going back to dry as a bone land... and theres no technique that will help you overcome the "two timing jerk" label other than moving to another town.
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