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| | Decoding the Female LanguagePage 23 of 31 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31) | I caught myself playing with my hair today. I wondered what it meant. Maybe the 5 male engineers in the meeting with me wondered, too. Maybe they didn't notice. Maybe one of them pines for me, but is afraid to say anything because he doesn't know for whom I twirled my hair. One of the young cuties winks at me a lot; perhaps I was twirling for him? He didn't seem to notice either, though he did notice the young lady in the parking lot who left her phone number on his windshield. He thought that might be a hint, called her, dated her more than once. Maybe they are still dating. Wonder if she twirled her hair? Maybe she left a sweetly twirled lock of hair with the note?
I suspect my hair-twirling today was the result of boredom, rather than interest/flirting. Obviously a dating-help tome is needed on this topic - "Is She or Isn't She: Deciphering the Hair Twirl in Every Situation."
I shall quit my day job and apply for a grant so I can research and shed light on this very important topic. I wonder if Marcus will give me ad space beside the male profiles? | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:08:52 PM | Since I am rarely, if ever , cold approached by men out in random public..I guess the kinds of things men are complaining about never even occurred to me... I seem to be really an oddball about a lot of things on here...
I am secure in the knowledge that I have never led a man on, nor have I ever not expressed interest in some way if I was, or made it clear I wasn't....I am not coy..far from it...but, I still like to flirt, and I sincerely doubt any guy ever thought I wasn't interested when I was...or vice versa... | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:20:22 PM | Levis....you got it. Good post. Some don't get it...guess they are the ones who end up with an R.O.,
or lonely.
or both.
Some women do misinterpret; i back off with an immediate and tactful clarification and apology. Some bite...and pursue. Even when I didn't really intend that. Guess i'm guilty of sending mixed signals too....so sue me!
And zngie, i'd banter with ya; sorry no one does in the real world
...flirting is fun, harmless, and allows a little leeway. If there is mutual spark...well cool.
The grandma's at church just LOVE the fun banter. They wanna set me up with their daughters and neices....or tell me "sonny, if i was 30 years younger, i'd curl your ears back" lol. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:02:33 PM | I have never discarded a guy for not getting "hints".
here come the echo!
no Zangie, no one mentioned you: you're not the one who spreaded over 23 pages extremely clearly that she will discard any guys that do not get her "hints", but also says the exact opposite within the same thread, then change again tune....and played a little game in the background at the same time.
So yes: shhhh! in a way..
:) | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:42:28 PM |
when I read the opening post, I assumed it should be pretty clear that the OP's not talking about a partner in an established relationship. Instead, he was refering to someone who you may be just getting to know.
On the first encounter it is crucial that one come across exactly as one wishes to be perceived.
I abhor small talk. If someone wants to communicate with me and they are joking, teasing or flattering me I find this too trite to be interesting. I also think this person is insincere, insecure and a player.
I want to speak with someone sincerely and intelligently; he may be intellectually superior to me but I have never found that to be a problem perhaps because I am very interested in what those more knowledgeable than I have to say.
Body language in personal relationships, especially initially, can be sincere. The leaning into one another when speaking, gazing, touching, the pitch of one’s voice are indications of intimacy. The flipping of one’s hair, batting eyelashes, tee-hee’s and indirect words are not.
It is the specific little subtleties brought up by the OP, which some here defend, that frustrates the op and is also what some men here see as merely coyness by the women attempting to communicate with these obscure tactics.
Sincere communication has nothing to do with crassness, as one poster here implied, that showing interest is saying, “I want to fvck you”. I’ve never said that to a man (not right away) and I have been able to convey interest and desire to know him better. In fact the men that interest me are equally turned off by crass individuals even if they happen to be hot women.
What SPECIFICALLY makes a smile, or touch of the arm, or the inclination of the head, or the flick of some hair a come-on as opposed to just somone very touchy-feely, someone who has thought of a joke, someone with a tic, etc…
That’s probably more accurate than not.
I am direct, never coy; although some here think it too much of a risk to let him know I am just as interested as he is, I always do. In fact; I may do it first.
I do believe though that those that initially communicate in a flirty, girly way will not be able to appreciate the more direct, sincere, serious approach and that’s fine. It is my experience that there are more of this type than of mine. But, I do not think this a gender issue; it is my experience that just as many guys initiate in a flirty, jokey, and tons of flattery approach.
Although I would find him annoying it must work for him; sometimes. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:03:54 AM | I do have to laugh at this, just a little, yes girls do try to give hints.
BUT...The reason why most women don't some up to a man and say " I like you you are a really nice guy" or "you are handsome"
Well for different reasons, here are some.
I'm a fat chick, so that should say that.
You are looking at someone else, that they don't think they match up to.
They don't think they are your type.
These 3 things being said I have been asked out by some really good looking guys, any girl in the place would have said yes to in a heartbeat, I wouldn't of come up to them, I thought I didn't measure up.
They don't like to make the "1st" move so to speak.
They don't want to be rejected, meaning put themselves out there.
THey are shy.
They just doon't know how to tell you.
They don't want you to think they are being to aggressive.
Or that they do that w/ everyone.
Guys may be simple, but to us, they are worlds away,
i'm sure you feel the same.
Just something to think about. | |
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Savona
| | Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 557 | |
| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:07:21 AM |
Seriously, when I read the opening post, I assumed it should be pretty clear that the OP's not talking about a partner in an established relationship. Instead, he was refering to someone who you may be just getting to know.
It's understandable that you may expect a partner in an established relationship to understand your secret code. But why the hell should you expect a stranger who you just met, or someone you're just getting to know, to understand your secret code?
I said if he doesn't get me at the beginning then he probably won't get me in a relationship ... later on as above ^^^ later on in a relationship.
You aren't even self-consistent within a single post. We aren't talking about a partner. PRESUMABLY, a partner is someone you already know, not someone you're trying to meet.
Again my point, how can a man get and understand these signals during a relationship and can not understand signals during a getting to know period. I am trying to make the point that I DO think that men get and understand female code but won't take a chance.
One of those reasons was it being drilled into us that anything other than "yes" should be interpreted as a "no". When you're warned practically every day about the threat of being charged with rape or sexual harrassment, it has a lasting effect.
Yea yea yea ... and we women are programmed by men in this day if we make the first moves we are desperate, needy bla bla bla ... too easy, the list goes on. Just like all the comments in the forums ... so that has a lasting effect.
I think that's kind of the point some of the male posters were trying to make, though, Savona...that they're NOT just 'wanting a quick lay', they're actually trying to connect with someone who interests them both physically AND mentally.
I NEVER said a quick lay. But face it most men have on their profiles and most men are only interested in getting to know women who are physically attractive to them. So if they meet someone who they have a physical attraction to them is what I was getting at. So from what I understand it is physical that attracts a man and then mental connection to keep things going. Frig if I am wrong about men needing that physical attraction they I am dumber than a stump. I am talking about physical and mental ... but if you go back to all the comments about women being stupid, and talk mindless chatter ... perhaps it isn't mindless chatter as it isn't a deep philosophical chat ... just light get to know chat.
I didn't really see any of the male posters saying they would NEVER approach a woman who had piqued their interest.
Then you missed quite a few posts. Or perhaps I misread.
Anyway I can see from the nasty digs towards me when I post on this thread it seem to be a private thread and my opinion are not welcomed here. I have read a number of nasty comments directed at me posting and I have not in any way written to anyone to go away ... or written insults when they have come back to post again. I guess it is sort of clicks that some posters stick with other and post in packs ...
Thats one thing I understand very well ... if someone is telling me to go away I can get that. I hope all your dating works out for all you in your own fashion and in your own way.
By the way, I don't twirl my hair and such ... and those who think that is what women actually use to attract a man .... yep then you really can't read a woman's code.
S | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 9:11:18 AM | | You know, what does it matter anyway. Love is never better the second time around anyway. Rather than deal with the 99% of men that are player's or have some sort of other motive and the rest that think your just too stupid to have a relationship I'm really getting to the point where I could care less if I ever have somebody in my life or not. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:35:23 AM | I know this is a little off topic but:
<div class="quote"> BUT...The reason why most women don't some up to a man and say " I like you you are a really nice guy" or "you are handsome"
Well for different reasons, here are some.
I'm a fat chick, so that should say that.
You are looking at someone else, that they don't think they match up to.
They don't think they are your type.
These 3 things being said I have been asked out by some really good looking guys, any girl in the place would have said yes to in a heartbeat, I wouldn't of come up to them,
I thought I didn't measure up.
They don't like to make the "1st" move so to speak.
They don't want to be rejected, meaning put themselves out there.
THey are shy.
They just doon't know how to tell you.
They don't want you to think they are being to aggressive.
Or that they do that w/ everyone.
So, basically you are correct. But the thing is: many women won't make the first move or openly communicate their intentions but will discard, chatise, look down upon, insult, and call unmanly, any man who doesn't make the first move for those very same reasons. I realize that many will have different versions of the above, but I feel the number one reason why women don't openly state their interest in a guy is because they really couldn't face the rejection. If they give hints or suggestions they can always fall back on: he doesn't get my way of communicating so I don't want him...when it is really: he gets it just doesn't want to have anything to do with her lol
As I've said in the past: most of my male friends (for some reason) have been real lady killers aka players and having gotten to know them very well, they are the worst for all those reasons, they just bury it deep. Most are too insecure to be alone for any length of time. I know one in particular whom I bet he couldn't go two months without a date, he said two months? I couldn't go a month......or a week for that matter.
See, the guy who is standing there, eyeballing the crowd and not hitting on everything in sight? He's secure in himself enough to know that he doesn't NEED a woman by his side....... | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 1:12:16 PM | Someone earlier in the thread made a comment about hand signals...this thread makes me want to give a CLASSIC handsignal...the backhanded one finger salute...yes indeed, fly that bird...LOL.
I don't personally "play games", but I have observed plenty. I'm not talking about witless bimbos 'throwing out hints' and engaging in mindless chatter. I'm not talking about women who say things that don't make sense. I'm talking about a social/human interaction skill set that sets up a possible romantic situation.
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My guess is that we different ideas regarding what is mindless chatter. A human interaction that sets up a possible romantic interaction is, ``Hi - would you like to go out to dinner?'' A statement like, ``Hi,'' while you twiddle your hair is not.
Now, I for one don't twiddle my hair when conversing with ANYONE. But to waltz up to some guy in a bar or at a party,whatever...and ask him out, invite him to a ratkilling or just plain proposition him? Not gonna happen...I'm going to converse/interact with this gentleman and find out if he's married or in a relationship. I'm gonna find out for sure if he even LIKES girls. I'm gonna find out if we'd have enough of a social/mental/intellectual connection to ENJOY going out together.
IRL, I don't particularly have much of a problem with men approaching me, at all. But for me to accept a DATE, I have to feel a level of interest/attraction above the level of common civility/platonic friendship. I don't feel any need to be the girlfriend or signifcant other of a man I don't particularly LIKE, just for social validation.
Unfortunately, all too often people who just plain don't HAVE this skill set, or are very inept at it, hide behind "upfront, direct and principled". This is not to disrespect these folk, not at all! But the truly direct and principled people who CAN'T do that sort of ebb and flow , prelude to romance interaction, don't attempt to disrespect those who CAN, by claiming they'll only attract "losers" and "get played".
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All you need to do is READ the countless threads on these forums, posted by people who end up being played because they did NOT make clear what it was they wanted. In fact, those are the only people who have problems. If they were clear about what they wanted and did not try to second guess what someone's hints are supposed to men, then they either passed when what they wanted wasn't being offered or they got what they wanted.
And you know that these people did not make clear what they wanted, how? Were you there when the 2 people met? How do you know that the person who "got played" wasn't lied to? Hell, we could all print up Tshirts saying EXACTLY what we wanted in a dating relationship, but what's to stop the player, the bedpost notcher, the attention/free meals female, the gold digging female,from getting Tshirts that "say" " what the opposite sex wants to hear"? People get played because someone is being DISHONEST.
Msg 564...granted there is an element of humor, but overall it's GRIM humor, and yet here you are at a dating website...
I shall quit my day job and apply for a grant so I can research and shed light on this very important topic. I wonder if Marcus will give me ad space beside the male profiles? If he won't, I bet there's some equal rights law you can invoke(LOL!J/K!!)
I abhor small talk. If someone wants to communicate with me and they are joking, teasing or flattering me I find this too trite to be interesting. I also think this person is insincere, insecure and a player.
There is nothing written down dictating that a male/female/potential dating initial interaction needs to be "small talk", "trite" or clownish. It can be as serious as a treeful of owls,if that's what you want. And someone who is "flattering" you may be genuinely trying to connect, as best they can. It is of course your prerogative to reject that person as not conversationally adept enough for your tastes, but the truly accomplished player will avoid trite flattery and teasing.
But, from my own personal perspective, as a person who really has difficulty noticing and interpritting body language, I'd have to rely almost entirely on verbal communication to learn whether another person is interested in me.
Maybe that's just me being a little too socially challenged? I really am the sort of person who'd be unlikely to notice the hints, or completely misinterprit them.
Yes, there are people who don't seem to pick up on body language/social cues. This doesn't mean that they are bad people or that they are undeserving of dating/relationships/love. I cannot speak to what anyone else may or may not do, but if I'm getting the slightest inkling that a person just isn't capable of interacting on a flirtatious conversation/nonverbal communication basis,I'll adapt. It helps that I have some friends and acquaintances(mature adults) who are possibly highfunctioning autistic/Asperger's syndrome. Someone who is genuinely challenged is a whole different ballgame than someone who is damaged/fearful or just plain emotionally lazy, sitting on their hind end waiting for Prince Charming or Angel of the Morning to come sweep them off their feet. Give me an Aspy, any day, over somebody who just hasn't gotten the hell over themselves.
You know, what does it matter anyway. Love is never better the second time around anyway. Yeah, but I'd like to think it could be as good, maybe not in the same exact way, but still a worthy goal.
Rather than deal with the 99% of men that are player's or have some sort of other motive and the rest that think your just too stupid to have a relationship I'm really getting to the point where I could care less if I ever have somebody in my life or not. I'm sorry to have to say I definitely GET where this poster is coming from. If you had something very good for a long time, and it's gone due to things out of human control, I think you DO worry about winding up in a situation that leaves such a bad taste in your mouth that you lose your sense of that good thing.
But the thing is: many women won't make the first move or openly communicate their intentions but will discard, chatise, look down upon, insult, and call unmanly, any man who doesn't make the first move for those very same reasons. So? Why would you want to be involved with these women anyway?
but I feel the number one reason why women don't openly state their interest in a guy is because they really couldn't face the rejection. So?What does it matter WHY? Dude, the world is NOT gonna stop and spin the other way just because YOU want it to. It is what it is. Whether it's fear of rejection, social conditioning, parental training, disapproval in her particular environment, the majority of adult women,( even the plain ones you THINK should be throwing themselves at men, because "it's their only hope") are not going to do a 180 on their style of swimming in the dating pool. You can talk down and belittle all you want...if you are unwilling to put YOURSELF out there, don't be dissing women for being unwilling to assume what most of them have been taught is YOUR role.
See, the guy who is standing there, eyeballing the crowd and not hitting on everything in sight? He's secure in himself enough to know that he doesn't NEED a woman by his side....... And if you are intimating that YOU are this guy, why are you here screaming at women for not asking you out, or making her interest unmistakeable, whatever? Trust me, dude, we may be reluctant to completely usurp what we've been conditioned to see as the man's role in the dating game, but if you think that you are missing out on the woman you don't need, because we women are not"clear" in our communication, I'd suspect that maybe there just isn't that much interest in you amongst the females you THINK should be busting their asses to get with you. Sorry. Wish I could sugarcoat that but I wouldn't want to be unclear.
Cindy O | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 6:27:42 PM |
Again my point, how can a man get and understand these signals during a relationship and can not understand signals during a getting to know period. I am trying to make the point that I DO think that men get and understand female code but won't take a chance.
THis is an example of why your posts are found offensive.
My interpretation of the above quoted is: You believe that I (and other men) that say we don't get "female language" are lying. You believe that I (and other men) are simply pretending to NOT understand "female language" because we are too scared to make a move.
To what purpose would this serve? If I truly understood "female language," I could walk into a room full of women and, in a short whle, know every woman that had an interest in me. My bets would be hedged. I'd know exactly which women I should and shouldn't approach. Why in God's name would I play dumb IRL and come on POF and state that I actually don't get "female language?"
In addition, in my world, it takes time to learn the sublte signs each individual gives off. My BF (female) and I can read each other like a book, now. In the beginning, not so well. Matter of fact, in the beginning we had a couple of disagreements because we missread each other (signs).
I guess either one of us could have claimed that the other was lying about incorrectly reading the others signs, but I doubt we would have become bestfriends by claiming the other was lying.
Aside from basic rude behavior in social settings, most behavioral subtlies are individualistic, IMO. I've been in those relationships where a SO would claim that, "Well, every guy I've known that 'did/said that' really meant..... And, if you deny that's what you really meant - you're a liar!" They didn't last long.
I prefer to see people as individuals and leave my baggage behind. I appreciate like minds.
Therefore, I'm not going to assume (ass-u-me) that friendly behavior is any more than just that. Oh, I've made my mistakes assuming, but I was younger then. Call me skeered, I don't care! I call it, "I'm all grown-up now and want a woman that is too."
If a woman finds it so adverse to her nature to simply let me know that she is interested in getting to know me better; if she expects me to be the one to verbalize my interest first, then she's not the one for me. It's immaterial to me who (she or I) verbalizes first - it's about the attitude behind her choice that is paramount to me.
Doesn't mean the first to verbalize is gaurenteed a reciprocal response, but the willingness (attitude) to take the chance, as opposed to putting the onus on one gender, implies a leveled playing field.
In closing, when mutual romantic interest has been established, a smile can mean, "Yeah Baby!" Prior to establishing mutual romantic interest (as i thought this thread was about), a smile/touch/etc... can mean your talking to a potential friend - not a potential lover.
just a few thoughts | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:31:49 PM | Your post reminded me Levi of all the times I've been asked by friends to interpret someone else's behaviour. "She said or did this, does that mean she's interested or am I imagining it?" I've frequently been baffled by it.
Sometimes friendliness is just being friendly and sometimes its more. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:45:28 PM |
Again my point, how can a man get and understand these signals during a relationship and can not understand signals during a getting to know period. I am trying to make the point that I DO think that men get and understand female code but won't take a chance.
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THis is an example of why your posts are found offensive.
My interpretation of the above quoted is: You believe that I (and other men) that say we don't get "female language" are lying. You believe that I (and other men) are simply pretending to NOT understand "female language" because we are too scared to make a move.
OK help me out here,dude. Why is Savona's thinking that "men get and understand female code, but won't take a chance" deemed to be offensive, yet Rentahusband's comment that
but I feel the number one reason why women don't openly state their interest in a guy is because they really couldn't face the rejection. which essentially says pretty much the same thing, except it's directed at women.
Here's what I find offensive...DOUBLE STANDARDS. Oh I know that they will continue to be applied to women,that women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I know that attitude isn't going away any time soon. But I can certainly find it offensive, and I can certainly point it out when, in my perception, a double standard is being applied against EITHER gender.
Cindy O | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:36:30 PM |
OK help me out here,dude.
First of all, I'd prefer you didn't call me "dude." It implys a comraderie that I do not feel with you. Thank you.
Personally, I find you extremely argumentative (yeh, I've been around a while) and doubt you are really looking for real comprehension, but rather an opening to further argue a personal agenda. Please excuse me if I'm wrong.
1) I speak for myself, not for others. I may agree with them or they might agree with me. So, my point stands alone as my opinion. I will not be baited into speaking for others. Thank you very much.
2) If you find "double standards" offensive, you should be appalled at the double standard placed on men these days. If you read my post closely, you would see that I stated that I didn't care which gender made the first proclamation of interest. I would add: What traditionally female role have men not stepped into, nowadays? Conversely, why are there still traditionally male roles that women have refused to step into, nowadays? That's a double standard! Yep, that's a generalization, but I hope you get the point.
3) Attitude is the make-or-break for many men. Myself included. If (some) women expect men to walk through the fire (put it out there and attempt to understand female language), but refuse to walk through the same fire (put it out there and and attempt to understand male language) - why should men make the effort to engauge these type women? The answer is simple: they (men) choose not to.
I truly believe that niether gender enjoys a "double standard," but attempting to understand the others perspective is fundemental to resolving the issue. IMO, it would behoove (sp?) a lot of women to attempt to understand what men are saying in this thread, but it's not required. Every individual has the right to do what is best fro them, male or female.
A woman thinking "he either gets my nonverbal expressions or he is unworthy" is fine for whatever woman that chooses that methodolgy, but it doesn't negate the extreme importance of verbal communication.
I've been through "couples counsuling." It was all about stating what you want and need, not about what you wished the other picked-up on (i.e. body language).
just a few more thoughts | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:46:03 PM |
Here's what I find offensive...DOUBLE STANDARDS. Oh I know that they will continue to be applied to women,that women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I know that attitude isn't going away any time soon. But I can certainly find it offensive, and I can certainly point it out when, in my perception, a double standard is being applied against EITHER gender
It's funny, because I actually do most of the things that men are complaining that women don't do...but, I find myself arguing all the time, because of this very thing.
It doesn't matter what you do or don't do...a segment of the male population will berate you for it...because they aren't on the same page either.
But, most puzzling to me, is the millions of threads started by men exhorting women to be/do/act one way or another, and getting quite vehement about it, and not allowing the answer...I'm a woman, and that's just how I am, and yet, the few that women may start about some male behavior they don't like ( and it's usually because they are hurt)...the general response is: that is how men are...deal with it? We never do anything wrong...it is always you silly/stupid/entitled women...sigh...
I think I would drop dead if any male forum poster, ever, admitted that they had some responsibility for the mess that dating is these days..or for the mixed signals, or for anything? Or, even suggested ways they could help make it better....not putting all the burden on us to fix it...or shoulder all the responsibility...
I'm willing to admit I am not perfect, and I will even admit most of my flaws/mistakes in public, and I am willing to listen to their concerns ( as long as they aren't insulting about it)...but....I am tired of being blamed (generally, not personally) for all the ills in the male /female relating department..or , for every time I either don't understand or I am hurt by some of their behavior...( We attract liars, we have a bad picker, we had sex too soon, we didn't have sex soon enough, we dress too slutty, we don't dress sexy enough, we only like bad boys, we expect too much, we don't expect enough.,.ad infinitum...and the men involved never had anything to do with what happened?)
Men and women both make mistakes and do dumb/unwise things...but, generally, on here , it always sounds, from the male perspective, that it is only women who do..and everything would be perfect if we just got OUR act together. ( then , of course, you have to figure out which act it is you should get together...because there is no consensus)
Besides refusing to do anything that is remotely considered traditional anymore, ( which isn't a plus for women)..what have men done/changed to consider our concerns or perspectives? Do most really feel they have no need to? Do they really think we are all hopeless, or that our feelings or desires have no value? That our way is always the wrong way?
When can we learn to meet in the middle? Or , not talk in absolutes?
The truth is...I probably have some "code", or "signals"..but, whatever they are..I'm not conscious of them...and I think they are instinctual...and while I can weather rejection, and have, numerous times, I am not about to expose myself to it on a regular basis, or in a high risk situation, and this is where men and women may really differ...I take reasonable risk for men who really interest me, or intrigue me, not just any man I meet, or see that I think is hot?...
Whether I would be clear and upfront, or not..there are a limited number of men I would be willing to take the risk for...I think men deal more in quantity, and get rejected more...but, I don't think most women would ever, proactive , clear and upfront or not...deal in the numbers most men do? It's just not in our nature? So, you can never even the score? Besides, we do have the advantage that men will approach us either way..which I know is not fair...but, it is somewhat biological...and we can't control that?...and we have our own disadvantages..you may have to approach more or be more proactive...but, we have a lot more inappropriate advances made to us, and we have to reject..which isn't any more pleasant...really....I've been both, and I do not like either one...
Things for both genders have their disadvantages or crosses to bear...and I think we tend to think our own perspective is worse...
And a lot of men aren't any clearer, or blunt..I think that is human nature, not gender...I mean if your reasoning is: we get rejected too much...so, if women took more rejection we would feel better...Does this make sense ?
Commonsens: I can only speak for myself , not other women...I know it wasn't directed at me personally...but, I wanted to point out that all women are not the same, nor, do we all have some evil motive to drive you guys nuts...I'm almost 52 years old...whatever I do, it hasn't affected my ability to get dates...so, it can't be all that bad can it? As I said before, if you men have any hints on how to find the right guy...I'm all ears...lol..
EDIT
What traditionally female role have men not stepped into, nowadays? Conversely, why are there still traditionally male roles that women have refused to step into, nowadays? That's a double standard! Yep, that's a generalization, but I hope you get the point.
I know this will fall on deaf ears....but, I think I mentioned earlier when you said that...who told men they had to step into any female roles? I certainly didn't..If they did...they chose to...no one forced them....choice...male or female...whatever role you want...no gender distinctions by choice, not coercion...that is my definition of equality...not all men doing all female roles and vice versa..whatever works for the individual and their talents/likes/preferences...there is no double standard there...
I MO, it would behoove (sp?) a lot of women to attempt to understand what men are saying in this thread, but it's not required. Every individual has the right to do what is best fro them, male or female.
It would behoove men to listen or understand our side once in a blue moon....but, they don't have to either...I understand perfectly what they are saying actually..doesn't mean I always agree, or am going to take the blame for everything men are unhappy about...
've been through "couples counsuling." It was all about stating what you want and need, not about what you wished the other picked-up on (i.e. body language).
You know....I was in two years of marriage counseling myself..and have some psychology background...that is for an established relationship...not a stranger you just met? A stranger I just met, has no need to know what my needs are...that kind of communication is for when you get beyond one date...it's like putting the cart before the horse...
An indication of interest of any kind ...if he responds, no problem..if he doesn't I'll try a different way..but, I still don't need to be bold, brash, aggressive ....I , personally, and I know everyone doesn't...prefer some mystery in the beginning...so much more fun finding it out gradually....
Just what I think, anyway...
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:00:24 PM | | AS I had sasid, I never really go to anyone thinking I will be rejected for how I look, but for those friends that to go and flirt, and being a people watcher myself, just some reasons. That I have heard or seen. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:23:50 PM |
I know this will fall on deaf ears....
You seem to like to bait me (yes, we have a history). Thanks for the compliment.
Because you seem to want to make it personal, I will respond accordingly.
All you ever say is, "Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me!Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me!Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me!Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me! Not me!
Boring? Offensive? Tiresome?
Yep! | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:29:53 PM |
There is nothing written down dictating that a male/female/potential dating initial interaction needs to be "small talk", "trite" or clownish.
Of course not; why imply that I meant as you say? I haven’t seen anyone say this.
And someone who is "flattering" you may be genuinely trying to connect, as best they can.
So?
Does not mean I, or others that feel as I do, have to like it.
I get to decide what is interesting for me…….
explanations as to why one behaves as they do will entail more that just your singular interpretation.
the truly accomplished player will avoid trite flattery and teasing.
You do not know how every player plays his game.
I see that you write extremely long detailed posts on almost any subject and thread but this does not make your opinions the end all.
Here's what I find offensive...DOUBLE STANDARDS. Oh I know that they will continue to be applied to women,that women are damned if they do and damned if they don't
I believe you just did that, applied a double standard, with the standard lament, “You are picking on the women blues”. I’ve seen a few posts on here that were quite “offensive” by some women; why not call them out?
OK help me out here,dude. Why is Savona's thinking that "men get and understand female code, but won't take a chance" deemed to be offensive,
Maybe it’s because she said:
Anyway I can see from the nasty digs towards me when I post on this thread it seem to be a private thread and my opinion are not welcomed here. I have read a number of nasty comments directed at me posting and I have not in any way written to anyone to go away ... or written insults when they have come back to post again. I guess it is sort of clicks that some posters stick with other and post in packs …
Comments meant to engender sympathy…….
I believe the poster you accused of “double standards” was attempting to clarify why she has been perceived negatively. Others also explain:
Sorry if you feel that replies to you were naasty and your opinions aren't welcome. But, from what I've observed, you have been the one who's seemed to make this your personal thread, and you are the one who's acted angry, or offended, every time you see a post which you don't personally agree with.
Many guys have simply been responding that they'd like women to communicate openly with them. You were the one who seemed to get angry with the men voicing that simple opinion.
Or perhaps it’s because some feel that the need to restate one’s opinion ad nauseum is just tiresome:
the one who spreaded over 23 pages extremely clearly that she will discard any guys that do not get her "hints"
Personally, I find you extremely argumentative (yeh, I've been around a while) and doubt you are really looking for real comprehension, but rather an opening to further argue a personal agenda.
+1 | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 12:20:48 AM |
ou seem to like to bait me (yes, we have a history). Thanks for the compliment.
I didn't mean it to be bait...really.. I meant that you probably wouldn't respond...but, I wanted to comment anyway, more for readers than you...so, they didn't wonder why you didn't answer any rhetorical questions I addressed in the post...however it came out...it wasn't my intent...so, I apologize if it offended you...
The only history we have is that we have different opinions about things, and you don't like people who don't agree with you. We are like oil and water. However, I was never angry at you for your opinions...
Because you seem to want to make it personal, I will respond accordingly.
I didn't say anything negative about you personally...just don't agree with your point of view...it isn't a reflection on you personally..I have been told that several times myself, and am trying to learn that it isn't...
All you ever say is, "Not me!
Only about the things that I really don't do...you have seen posts in threads we are both on, with similar subjects..I actually admit to mistakes and poor judgment all the time..I even did it on this thread...and admit when I am wrong about something...or being foolish, or overreacting...
Boring? Offensive? Tiresome?
Yes, you are right, I'm sure some people think so. I think most of us are at some point or another, at least. Can't please everyone , for one thing...
Though how boring and tiresome , though true, can be offensive, I have no clue. Doesn't hurt anyone...
My apologies both for making these errors, and for subjecting other posters to it. Poor judgment on my part. Not living up to my own standards there. And I won't do it again. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 1:06:23 AM |
The only history we have is that we have different opinions about things, and you don't like people who don't agree with you. We are like oil and water. However, I was never angry at you for your opinions...
Cheap shot.
I refuse to play the defensive/baiting game with you, it's beneath me.
On topic?
Think I decoded rather well in this instance. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:45:30 AM | Wow, the battle of the sexes gets ugly. It is a shame how we, people, let our pain strike out in anger. I am reminded by what some preachers have said, "Only we shoot our wounded."
The topic "Decoding the Female Language" is just as valid as a topic that might be titled "Decoding the Male Language." The fact is, sometimes I just have a hard time decoding any language, including my own. A communications teacher once said, "All communication is manipulation." I felt quite defensive about that. After getting over myself, I realized there was a lot of truth in the statement. We want something when we communicate. Sometimes, I think, we are not always sure just what we want. Attention? Understanding? Affirmation? To have our own way? To mess with someone's mind? To express anger? To help or hurt? To make someone think just like me? So true communication, it seems, would need to start with self, whether you are male or female. What is that old quote? Shakespeare? To thine own self be true. I toss out there, if we are honest and straightforward with ourselves, (and who can honestly say they have never lied to their own self) then we can communicate reasonably with each other. I have been hurt by and misunderstood by many people of both sexes. The ONLY person I have found I can change is myself. If someone misunderstands me, I try to restate, if Iknow about it. Communication requires feedback, whether verbal or non verbal. So, if you are offended, you could say, hey, I think you just called me an a$$hole. I could then say, either, yep, you got it or say, absolutely not and restate, in different words whatever I meant for you to hear. Much of the time, we misunderstand because of noise, the noise in our head of past experiences such as: "He sounds just like my dad telling me I will never amount to anything."
Lets say I am putting on lipstick. Am I talking to someone, rooting around in my purse and applying it? Or am I holding the lipstick until I lock eyes with you and slowly applying it, keeping eye contact? Surely anyone watching would be able to ascertain the difference. Now if I lock eyes with you begin slowly applying and you look away, surely I can figure, hey he ain't interested. Communication, while not rocket science, is something that can be learned. I have learned something very interesting in reading this thread: Men, generally, don't give as much feedback as women. It does not mean they are not listening. Now I don't take it personally anymore or keep trying to make a point that the guy probably got the first time I said it. The guy could learn, if I don't give her some feedback she thinks I didn't hear her. So, if I say the place we are looking for is on the left, and he continues in the right lane, I am thankful there is another guy in the car to decide whether the driver heard me or not. (that was an attempt at comic relief, though a true story.)
Mind you, I have made just a few points from an hour and a half lecture that I heard 16 years ago. I don't claim to know it all. I mess up. Sometimes I realize it and make amends and sometimes I go blythely on my way, ignorant of the fact I just offended someone.
We can use this topic to beat each other over the head or we can learn better communication from one another. I don't like beating or being beaten. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 6:15:00 AM | This thread is going down like the divorce rate ....
Here is how it starts,
Some men are never happy and have to tell a woman that it is HER fault he is unhappy. She wants to know what she did to make him unhappy and how can she fix things. So he sets up the circus for her ...
What ever you do is wrong ... but I am going to give you a chance to prove that you can do something right. (Fat chance as I will make it impossible)
Start with the way you communicate. You better communicate the way I want you to, and don't look at me to do anything your way, you are wrong and it is your fault that men and women can't get along because, well just because it is 2009 and I have read somewhere that things are different.
The woman explains that her language isn't that hard, and that both people perhaps should be bi-lingual.
The man says, "NO, women have had it their way for too long and the way they have been speaking is wrong and has been wrong all along."
So the women tries to understand the man, and instead of him being gracious for the woman trying, he just continues to put her down.
The woman, now being independent, not like back before 2009 ... packs her bags and says screw you. The man cries huge tears that women have ruined the earth with their independence.
Some of the men on this thread are perfect examples of the biggest whiners on earth.
Fighting and snarling like a bunch of she cats are the men on this thread. Me thinks that they are really upset because they are effeminate is so many ways that they can't take the competition in the feminine department and want the women to balance them by acting more like men. Let the men be the skirts in the relationships. Oh you like it when women wear skirts and heels well I don't think you get to pick only the things you like about women being women. You have took your stand, now be the female half and take the time to find a more manly half women to compliment you delicateness.
I can see where that would piss you men off ... you wanting the women to put on the jock cups and we refuse to. Doesn't that really piss you off.
It was bound to happen, with straights, gays and now something in between. Well there are many women who won't cross over to A sexual to fit your A sexual demands. I venture a guess that you would have your perfect match if you went out in the real world and specifically looked for this type of woman whom you seem to demand so you can have a relationship. Be prepared for what you get. Women who act more manly than womanly. That is what fits your style.
It is perfect that the men who are effeminate show it in public now so they are easily avoidable. Just like a bunch of whiny suckie little teenage girls ... hopefully when they get use to their monthly they won't be so butchy .... b1tchy I mean.
That is why women are walking out on men like you in droves ... just tired of your girliness, women want men, not shadows of what use to be.
The men are crying Boo Hoo we want women who pay the coffee, pay half or more of the bills, wear that little black dress, have long hair, be no maintenance, talk like men, sex like whores, be easy for FWB, be more selective for long term, not want a single penny of my money have your own, let me have my motorcycle, you watch the kids, be independent fix your own car, cook me dinner.
I can hear the men through the walls "I have a fat gut, you be slim or I am not going to let you tell me directly and clearly you want to have sex with me. So if you don't do what I want and how I say when you come to me in bed, I am going to roll over and fake a headache, that will show you."
There goes another woman out the door to file divorce.
All women want are men to be real men.
First of all, I'd prefer you didn't call me "dude." It implys a comraderie that I do not feel with you. Thank you.
Just a perfect example of b1tchiness ... snarl hiss kittie cat fight ... little teen girlies. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:19:18 AM |
The fact is, sometimes I just have a hard time decoding any language, including my own. ...
We want something when we communicate. Sometimes, I think, we are not always sure just what we want. ...
So true communication, it seems, would need to start with self, whether you are male or female. ...
We can use this topic to beat each other over the head or we can learn better communication from one another.
Great post... enjoyed every bit of it; probably should have quoted the whole darn thing!
Women who act more manly than womanly. That is what fits your style.
As someone who has spent a fair amount of my life decoding communication in an effort to understand people better and be more effective with my communication with them... I must take exception to this comment. I do not believe the result is I am more manly than womanly.
The result as I see it is I have relationships (both friendships and romantic) where there is less discord, where there is more trust and a deeper level of intimacy is achieved. Another happy outcome is we spend more time talking about issues/subjects/content rather than spiraling endlessly over "what I meant when I said xyz is ..."
~~
If "Talk is cheap and some isn't"... what defines the difference between the two?
To me it is action. A request has to be made or it lives as "cheap talk." << I don't care which of us makes the request, and don't particularly care what the request is, but one of us has to take the risk of requesting something from the other in order to move it from an enjoyable 15 minutes of bantering to the beginning of an exploration. | |
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| Decoding the Female Language
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:25:26 AM | | This thread and topic is beginning to be nothing but yammering and a butt load of b!tch!n don't any of you have anything else to do? | |
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