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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/20/2009 10:54:39 AM | I really like this thread this is something I have been thinking about a lot. Breaking down old condioning and patterns and feel safe in the newer healthier patterns.
What you described is my upbringing. I do tend to go for unavailable men and try and prove myself to them. In the past, I connected with men "want me and are very attracted to me for all the wrong reasons for me." My choices have been with non-available, non-commitment men. I have stopped focusing on dating and have become selfish and am focusing on me.
As I have recently reflected and see the patterns they are all MY patterns and MY choices of who I invite and choose to get involved with. So, I really am taking this time to create a more solid confident me. I'm shutting out the non-available ones. Trying to open myself up to open, loving, available people in general. I'm seeing how that looks with fresh "new eyes". I'm feeling and being a witness in people and other healthy relationships which I want for myself.
Your question is this "How do we unlearn behavior............is it as simple as learning the right way, and ignoring the old way? And is it really possible to change ingrained conditioning? "
I think you create a do not enter list.........a firm set of boundaries be really clear. People will try and break down those barrier walls. The universe is funny like that. It just makes it so much more clear for you with seeing those patterns of people trying to enter. Once again you have the choice. SO, choose not to let them in......... then the next step is have patience to allow the new to come your way. It may take time to be in this space you may do tons of reflection, analyzing, bouncing off things with friends who know you and you can trust.
IN FACT, this is why I'm here. I'm in this present space of the new with all of this fresh energy and I am excited to be in this place I'm not sure what the new/available looks like. But, I know what going backwards is like. I think you need to make a huge conscious effort and be your own best friend in this space. Once, you have gone through the cocoon phase of not knowing where to go or where to be you will emerge into a beautiful butterfly with endless energy and excitment knowing that the past is behind and the present is yet to unfold and trusting that it's a matter of time before it hits your finger tips!
Be proud of yourself for recognizing and being aware of change!
Please let me know what you have learned or found from all of this! | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/20/2009 11:22:05 AM | | You are unlearning already. That is, you've already associated the unfavorable result with your actions and you going to start making better choices in the future. You say you're only interested in emotionally unavailable men but I suspect you are starting to be less so and eventually will be turned off by them as you will associate your past (and possible future) failed relationships with them. When you recognize a fault in yourself you want to change, the change automatically begins. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/20/2009 1:39:05 PM | There is a book called Getting The Love You Want by. The exercises in the book can help you sort this out. the author is Harville Hendrix, that may be helpful. If you can afford to see a therapist then go and look at the pattern. the theory is we choose people like our parents and try to rework the wounding we had in our early childhoods. Another good book is Perfect LoveImperfect relationship By John Wellwood. It may also be helpful. Good luck.  | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/21/2009 11:23:47 AM | Arabianangel,
--- It depends on what you mean by emotionally unavailable.
<div class="quote"> . . her father was a great provider but not great at showing his love.
Many men of your father's generation, defined "caring for" as providing for physical needs.
If the little girl defines "being cared for" as being cherished, rather than "provided for", this type of "emotionally unavailable" man won't make her feel loved.
--- It depends on what you mean by emotionally available.
<div class="quote"> she works so hard trying to change him, after all she learned to work extra hard to get her father's attention, finally she succeeds he falls in love with her . . . . only the excitement and happiness doesn't last too long, because the loving affection is foreign to her, she doesn't know how to handle it, she runs away..The relationship ends.......
In the above "emotionally available" seems to mean that the man is expressing his emotions, especially his feelings of love for the little girl. They are exchanging his trusting her with his emotions for her cherishing his emotions.
He's become emasculated, because the loving dynamic is an exchange of her entrusting him with her emotions, in exchange for his cherishing her mind, which is to say, her emotions.
He is pushed into his emotional mind and she, into her logical mind center.
Their roles are reversed and neither will feel loved. The relationship can't endure. It violates both of their definitions of being loved.
What the little girl really means by "emotionally available" is that she wants her mate to understand her feelings and empathize with them. When she feels that understanding and empathy, she can feel cared for; cherished.
This seems to be the result of evolution, so, our little girl isn't condemned to behave in one of the two ways she's tried so far.
In the example, our little girl has tried to unlearn several behaviors already. She's replaced unsuccessful behaviors several times; but not with successful behavior.
Her path to success depends on understanding what it is that makes her feel loved and what it is that makes him feel loved.
Then she can change her behavior to fit a pattern that will achieve the love for which they both yearn.
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/23/2009 5:08:06 PM | This is an interesting question. Do we actually “unlearn” behaviour based upon our past? Or, do we just grow beyond it or expand upon what we have done or know to date?
Following that thought, "how" do we grow past that which we have learned thus far and learn new paradigms or expand upon our prior behaviour in a positive way?
Although I believe "goals" can set the journey's direction and help prioritize amongst many choices, I don't believe you can set a pace and certainly you must be flexible enough to adapt your goals, as your awareness expands. For me, not being able to set the pace, worries me here and there because i am getting older—this is an honest admission, not saying it is “right”. But, I remind myself that the universe has a large purpose and it's own unique juggling of time and place. I have just committed to "trust" and "accept". Often that comes naturally, other times through tears or loneliness. I have found great strength in allowing expression of my own vulnerablity.
The journey seems never to cease. I had thought I was getting past what appeared to be emotionally unavailable men after my three year relationship that ended last summer, only to then find men whose "emotions" were, for want of a better word, overly available, often inappropriate and /or codependent. I am sure men can say the same about women they have encountered. Also, I tend to attract introverts and sometimes that aspect of personality confuses me. Is the person just an introvert or is he emotionally unavailable? With some people, it takes time to figure all this out!
I've also discovered men who are soooooooooo wanting to fix me or tweak me, so that I will meet their very rigid and specific needs--or gaps left by a past failed love or someone who has died. In the latter instance, I became replaced. If I did a good thing, I was just like “her”. So much easier to fix me or replace me, than address one’s own issues and embrace what "I" have to offer or bring to a couple table.
Thus, over time, I am now learning about needed boundaries which I did not have much of before, seeing no need. I also have learned that many people interpret my words or behaviours based upon their own dysfunctional history. Heck, I've had my share of my own --so at least know me for that and not what happened to “you” in “your” childhood! However, it takes time to know me for me-- and vice versa. Not many people want to spend their well earned "time". They are in a rush, chasing their tails.
So yes, this is a lot about one's energy—the quality, the amount, the level and even moreso the exchange of energy. Now, I am fortunate to meet new men, date and socialize, but I have not “yet” found that deeper connection where there is: mutual appreciation, neither trying to fix or be fixed, but really just mutually caring and rooting for one another. Plus, this would take a man who is not “fully”grieving and w/o such major resentments or a fear based manner of living life.
Many have established this detailed life, that they want a partner to just fit right into. Whereas, i am willing to step out of my security zone for the right person, I feel that he must be willing to do so as well. I don't expect a person to change their inner workings, but i do expect growth and less rigidity about possessions and doing "everything" his way or mine, for that matter.
Wanting the growth to be a shared experience, that is clearly enjoyable, communication skills will be essential. Not many have that capacity either. Most are attracted on a physical or “current need” level, which is fine. But, there needs to be a human or what i call spiritual connection where there is true admiration and concern for the other's struggle--as well as for one’s own and w/o disdain for the "differences".
I've always tended to treasure differences. Seeing a larger picture, where we both fit and with even more growth as a team, I view this as making us both larger individually-- as well as growing the relationship. However, lately it seems, as they get older, more are more set in their ways or their truths and are losing that type of energy and ablity to communicate and build upon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm holding onto my energy for dear life. In a way, that does rein me in a bit more, but the good thing is that I have not "dissipated". Surely there must be a man with a similar inclination, level of risk taking and flexibilty, who also admires and sees the complementarity of differences. Othewise, he will need to manufacture some sort of human cookie cutter or clone his own genes and then submit for a sex change! | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/23/2009 8:50:53 PM | I love this thread, arabianangel. This is an issue I have thought about a lot, and recently had a long thread about on another forum site.
If you are always attracted to the wrong kind of person, it is like your compass has to be reprogrammed. You grew up believing that love is associated with all the things it is not, which in fact makes it "not love." So, in fact when you are trying to steer towards love, you are in fact steering towards "not love."
Think of it like a map - Rome is "not love" and Paris is "love." Everytime you try to take a trip to Paris, you end up in Rome.... and to begin with, you don't really know the difference, as you have never been to either location.... but with time, you find out that what you have is "not love" and you are in Rome instead of Paris. Sooo... you go back home, determining to get to Paris.... and this time, you get onto the right road, but again, somehow you end up in Rome. You begin to realize you need to change something, but no idea how.... until you recognize that you never really received the right directions to get to Paris in the first place.
What are the "right directions".... a good example. We learn by example... and until we find people that we can model, we will not really "learn love".... or find our way to Paris. We need to learn that we are worthy of the kind of love we deserve... but that starts with loving ourself - recognizing that we do not need to "earn love"... it is part of our inborn nature to love and be loved.... we just kinda need to "relearn" it. Find couples who have a healthy and loving relationship.... and learn the markers along the road to love.... you already know the markers along the road to 'not love.'
The only way I know of that we can unlearn wrong behaviour is to reset our compass.... and that is done by learning the markers along both the road to "love" and to "not love".... to know when we are on the right path.... and to recognize the wrong path.
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/24/2009 4:47:02 AM | This has to be the funniest question.......I have ever heard................By being honest with yourself you can unlearn behaviors | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 8/24/2009 5:29:00 AM | | This posting proves most women that are mid 20s or older have some psychological problem as to why their still single. Every guy they get they get weird and break it off for pretty messed up reasons like the op mentioned. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:32:34 PM | Since it is environment and not genetic I am sure with therapy she will have a good chance of improving her situation.
It all comes down to CHOICES if you want to fight off demons or demons that latch onto you. You can have a horrible childhood that is beyond imagined and if you want to live and have a better life you do anything to change whatever is stopping you... You can use an excuse for so long and if you don't make the effort to improve your situation then only that person is to blame | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:47:03 PM | Don't you just hate when these threads are resurrected from the dead (kidding)
I've been fortunate since posting this thread to have met an amazing man who IS emotionally available...I don't know if people realize just how helpful their posts can be, sometimes we know the answer but need a confirmation. Who needs a shrink when we have all these wonderful people on POF FORUMS? | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:34:08 AM | Arabianangel,
I like the topic.I came from a home where emotion and hugs and kisses werent a display of affection my parents were comfortable doing. My good friend three houses down was adopted(he never knew), due to his mom wanting a child dearly and his father a stern man who could take it or leave it(an alchololic). Anyway he had the best mother anyone could imagine and grew up a govial man very liked because he was showered with constant love by his mom and lacked it from his father. I learned the importance of saying the words "I love you" although it was a tremendous struggle the first time but became a bit easier each new time I tried it. Another example was a remedial writting teacher I had. I needed remedial work, due to a learning disability. I explained to my teacher that I lacked confidence in doing my written assignments and the bad expeiences I had. She told me this "You need to start having good experiences and with each new good one, the bad one will become less of a burden to the day where the good ones will outweigh the bad ones"
So this is how I unlearned some behavior. Like the other post said we dont "unlearn" but we add new behavior to what we already know. It isnt a simple task, we learn from our parents even if they are not optimal learning. I was the first one in my family who used the L word. When I told my father(mother had passed away) I loved him, he thought there was something wrong, that I was using drugs or some unknown reason for my behavior. I told him I am trying to express how I feel and eventually he started crying. So it is possible to learn new behavior on top of which we were programed(learned from parents). It has to be a strong need in the person that wants it. My two other brothers have never been able to say the words independently. If someone tells them they love them,usually they say, "me too".
What we were able to do best at showing our love was by our actions. That is how I learned to show my love from my foulks. They say action speaks louder than words. I would agree to a point and that is to reasure those you care about how much you love them. The way I showed my mom I loved her was from my dad. My mother loved flowers and lilacs were her favorite. When I was a young boy I helped him plant a tree and make a garden. In the spring the tree bloomed, it was a lilac bush, purpilish flowers with a fragrant aroma,my mother loved those flowers. I would cut her a sniping to put in water on the table centerpiece. I started planing flowers along the front of the house, she loved it. I did this to show her my love, this was and is one of my natuarl ways of saying I love you . | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:53:38 AM | We don’t ‘unlearn’ behavior. Instead we learn new behavior. The new doesn’t supplant or replace the old behavior, it coexists. With time and practice, the new behavior becomes primary, or reflexive. Nevertheless, the original tendency remains lurking inside and has to be guarded against.
A man might be attracted to sassy, bright-eyed women with sarcastic comebacks and a bit of vinegar. But, while stimulating, that personality type might not make a good working relationship for him. Until he realizes the pattern (and his part in it) he’s doomed to perpetuate unsuccessful relationships.
Once a person realizes their tendencies, it’s a lifetime struggle to overcome them. It’s no different that people with anger issues or alcoholism - or pof forum addictions.
A therapist once told me, "In picking your partner, you are choosing the person with whom you will do your 'work'; choose wisely."
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:47:21 AM |
So...she starts to date emotionally available men, she plays the part although uncomfortable she does it despite her fears, she's anxious at times because she is not use to sitting back and enjoying the love/attention without having worked for it....Society says she should be happy, after all it's written in all the books how love shouldn't be a struggle...she tries really hard to relate, but finds herself empty....
Your post actually made me cry.
I've been there too and the answer for me wasn't to conform to what "all the books" said but rather to accept the reality that I'm weird. I'm just weird. I look at things differently. I experience things differently. I actually like the struggle. I like having to earn attention and love and respect. I thrive on being in a bit over my head. Being a bit nervous in the face of greatness keeps me sharp and operating at my best. I like being on the bottom. I really do. It excites me and thrills me. I have this kinky urge to be demanded of, to be challenged. I want to be dragged out of bed by my hair. I want to be yelled at, humiliated, demanded of, tricked, coerced, compelled, constrained, forced, made, obligated, obliged, pressured, blackjacked, dragooned, hijacked, strong-armed, bribed, seduced, corrupted, convinced and fvcked with. I am a power junkie. I want to be thrown on the hot coals of life, if I live? I will glory in it. I don't want pampering and attention and bent rules. I don't want excuses made for me. And I certainly don't want a man who can't demand of me because he respects me. That's not respect, it's an insult.
Do I look down on the coddled and indulged? Oh sure when I'm weak and unsure and my ego is rattling around like a gremlin in a hamster cage, yeah then I'll seek to exalt myself but the rest of the time they just look like kangaroos to me, incomprehensible and of no particular interest, not less than, just odd, as I am sure an adrenalin junkie, edge play housekeeper looks to them. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:52:01 PM | Consigliori,
We don’t ‘unlearn’ behavior. Instead we learn new behavior. The new doesn’t supplant or replace the old behavior, it coexists.
Usually, yes. BUT sometimes we must "unlearn what we have learned". It's rare, not often but can happen. Basically treating what you "learn" as what you "believe".
When it comes to relationships, approaching girls, and stuff like that... to undo natural things is very hard to come by.
Example:
Kid Mr Nice Guy says he can't help when approach girls to compliment the heck out of them. It's in his nature he says. He can't help it. He can't help but to offer them a drink, talk about a future together and how he could make her life oh-so happy. He says he "believes" that it's more effective from what he's heard that NOT doing all that would bring better results. But he says he can't help it.
Thing is, it isn't just out of emotion. The reason he's emotionally like that is because he ACTUALLY BELIEVES that girls want that. He would LOVE that on the receiving end -- how could they not love that? He believes not doing that will make him come across like he doesn't care -- but he does! He doesn't want to ruin his chances. So in the end, it's his BELIEF that all those emotions are based off of.
To "unlearn" is to "unbelieve"... then you'll naturally learn to do things the better way.
In the case of the example (which something could be said for a JERK guy, too)... he needs a wake-up call experience. He needs tangible proof right before his eyes. Something big before he'll ACTUALLY believe otherwise. But since he does believe otherwise, which is a grounded belief that's hard to undo, his actions will remain the same, unless he "fakes it 'till he makes it", which is not a good thing. :) | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:17:15 PM | | CR. I think you're correct in stating that a person must recognize the cause of their errant behavior before they can correct it. A paradigm shift as it were. But a desire to change isn't enough. Even if you get where you want to be, one can always revert. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 6:45:37 PM | | AA, I'm going to make a point of pulling this thread up every month for the next ten years. It's going to be like one of those never-ending-horror-sequel-franchises where the killer just won't die no matter how many times, no matter how creatively and definitively you kill it. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:40:49 PM |
But a desire to change isn't enough. Even if you get where you want to be, one can always revert.
And that requires a change of belief. Like true core belief from head to toe -- being totally CONVINCED, like the sky is blue. Until then, their behaviors that stem from their beliefs (naturally from upbringing or otherwise) will be hard-hard to change. A wakeup call can make them truly change their belief -- and their actions change QUICK. | |
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myloes
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Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 120 | |
| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:30:16 PM | | i dont know where to post but i believe to unlearn behaviors like anger etc you need to work on it everyday if your young it will take less time because your still maturing into the person your going to be for the rest of your life if your older i believe it takes 10 years or more to fully change but you can change its just a daily effort i think | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:48:58 PM | | i have learned in life to look very carefully at a woman's upbringing or people's for that matter. learned behavior is never fully undone. with therapy it can be turned around somewhat but the brain will always want to go back to that behavior. think alcoholics annon. those people make a choice not to drink but their brain still wants one and they fight it everyday but still....it's hardwired into them. same with abusers, cheaters, whatever. once hardwired, they can't change totally. best bet maybe 50%. people never change. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/28/2009 7:57:41 AM | Just my theory.
Proposition – emotionally and mentally we are made up of as follows;
40% - Born DNA call it what you will
20% - upbringing, parents, home and family interaction (orphanage or foster care experience for some)
40% - environment, friends, books we read, school, life experiences etc.
As such it would stand to reason that there are certain things that we can change, some to a degree and some not.
Just my humble opinion. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/30/2009 1:27:58 PM | truesamurai,
40% - Born DNA call it what you will
20% - upbringing, parents, home and family interaction (orphanage or foster care experience for some)
40% - environment, friends, books we read, school, life experiences etc.
Not too much in disagreement with that being an accurate assessment for a good amount of people (I would say upbringing is usually stronger, but to each their own)... but I add another intricate level to it....
X% - DNA (The remaining % left over from below)
Y% - Upbringing Environment (35% x DNA Susceptibility +/-)
Z% - Environment after childhood (20% x DNA Susceptibility +/- *AND* Upbringing Effects +/- )
DNA will change the % of upbringing and post-childhood-environment and how it affects ya. In other words, DNA determines how susceptible we are to our environments, and the results of upbringing will contribute to that too. Also when it deals with traumatic experiences -- some people will be shaped by that, and others, not too much -- that's determined I think by the upbringing... and if it is in upbringing, it's determined by the DNA. So I think they're all linked together...
Just my thoughts :) | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/30/2009 1:31:05 PM | | the best way to change your behaviours is to use Cognitive Behaviour techniques. Google it and read it. You'll gain many tools. | |
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| How do we Unlearn behavior?
Posted: 10/30/2009 1:35:54 PM | | I unlearned it by figuring out how it worked. Once I knew that my weirdness was from what happened in childhood, I thought about what I wanted aside from being able to go back and change things between myself and my mother. I don't think I had to work on it. Just knowing what was going on worked for me to get over it. How someone loves me now has nothing to do with my past anymore. Knowledge is power. In this case, the knowledge about how a childhood relationship went and the lasting effects gave me the power to distinguish between situations and people, so they weren't all about that one thing. | |
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