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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:58:30 PM |
Interestingly enough, according to Dr Suchat, there are no adjuvants in H1N1 vaccine. I find that point quite hard to believe
Thanks for mentioning that. I meant to bring it up the other day, when I read that the vaccine in Canada will contain the adjuvant, but the one in the States won't. Does that mean that Americans would be receiving the shot in 2 doses to increase the immune response? We'll be receiving just one dose. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 5:57:06 PM | ^^^^^^^^^
Hey - found the video - it's Anne Schuchat, MD btw.
See this link.
http://www.videomd.com/H1N1VaccineQuestions-fv-4146.aspx
I also heard some hospitals in Canada will be getting the adjuvant free vaccine, especially for pregnant women, that are concerned about this issue.
Personally I would rather get one shot myself. Just saves time. I figure I'll do my friends and family a favour by not transmitting the disease to them.
Just heard the CBC. A doctor just said 1 in a 1000 people will get gravely ill from the virus. Of that group 1 in 5 will die. So your odds are 1 in 5000 of dying from the flu.
Chances of dying from the vaccine are about 1 in a million.
So - all pretty small odds- pick your doom!
I just know that I'm not going to rely on unsubstantiated homeopathic cures.Just like the drug companies,those guys are out to make a buck too. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:00:45 PM | | Global BC's latest news blitz about the swine flu vax mentioned that thre is Mercury Thimerosal, but 'in a very small amount, comparable to that you would get in a tuna sandwich'. They are comparing mercury digested to Mercury Thimerosal injected, for which much less can wreak havoc on neurological systems, as researchers like Byron Hyde ( A canadian) have confirmed. They also mentioned squalene in the vaccine, and again, assured the viewers how safe the vaccine is even with such a 'small amount of squalene in the vaccine', when squalene, in multiple studies has been proven to cause rather sever autoimmune diease (Check Gary Matsumoto's book Vaccine A for many many publshed studies on the dangers of squalene, aka MF59 (which includes detergent and water) and many other names). Meanwhile, back in the states, the assistant attorney General just contradicted herself in the same segment, claiming there are 'no adjuvants, but then later saying that 'Thimerosal free vaccines are 'available' ". Maybe she should just follow Canada's example and tell it like it is about vaccine ingredients . Both countries continually reassure how 'safe' the vaccine is, citing no published data on the supposed safety studies, and urging people to get the vaccine. Canada's news at least mentioned the large percentage of healthcare workers who are choosing to abstain from the jab. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:11:07 PM | Hey Wiyan...if you don't want to take the vaccine then don't. You have that right. But if some healthcare worker who refused the vaccine then spreads H1N1 to one of my loved ones and my family member, as a result, get sicker or worse, you can bet you a$$ I'm holding them, the hospital and anyone else who had a hand in "educating" said idiot responsible about the "dangers" of vaccines responsible ethically, morally and - if possible - financially.
I'd suggest, rather than relying on information from conspiracy theorist websites, half-heard information and "feelings," do some actual research. In the meantime, when the vaccine becomes available for the general populace, I'm taking it. One in a million chance of a negative reaction to the vaccine versus one in 5000 chance of dying of flu? Look up from your crystals. I'm sure you can do the maths, there.
Edit: By the way, Gary Matsumoto is a journalist, not a doctor. Interesting how people listen to the journalist who seems to agree with their position yet rejects the one as "inaccurate" or even complicit in the "conspiracy" if they disagree. Spare me. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:31:34 PM | There might be a lot of something behind the scene action on this one.
I personally won't get a vaccine when there are natural methods of prevention.
Besides getting a virus helps bolster the immune system. One of the biggest setbacks about modern society is our running to the labs and whipping up a batch of trouble so we can solve another man made crisis!
Stay real
Let your kids play with doggy cat doe in the sand box every now and then. Eventually the entire species become immune. Besides they usually make really funny noises while they drive turds around. You may wanna stay alert enough to prevent them from eating too many though.
Biker | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:33:44 PM | | That's all kinda of bad jetvette. I am for kids playing in dirty conditions because it reinforces their immune system, but dont allow them to eat cat / dog poop. Not even mentioning the e-coli affliction (which can kill a child), but worms could also get in their system and that could create a whole new set of problems. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:38:27 PM | Right on
Just tell the Truth and let those affected choose to do so. Kinda like to wear a helmet or not. Freedom of choice should also include accurate information about ingredients and effects.
Up here in Canada you can die of frost bite or the flu. There a vaccine for that also it's called a toque!
But don't force me to wear one!
I think I look silly in one but it is warmer.
Biker | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:39:22 PM | | Stargazer-If you read Gary's book, you would be privy to the multiple Md's he corroborated with for his research, as well as the published peer reviews on research you can look up yourself on pubmed. I don't think MD's who work hard to get their reseach funded, completed, and then peer reviewed would appreciate having their research equated to 'conspiracy theories' or crystal gazing, but, then too, they probably don't take uninterested commentators from the peanut gallery that seriously either. They publish their work for a reason. Take your issues up with them if you disagree with their studies. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:46:53 PM | Thanks for saving me some typing Stargazer- She just repeats over and over. Matsumoto report doesn't say much-something about vaccine possibly causing cysts not deaths- or substantiate anything.
I find some good in it though- makes me do a little research- and learn more. I'm thinking of signing up for the Illuminati now- those guys are pretty busy and could use some help.
Here's a little more on Squalene for Wikipedia. They have all their citations.
Health controversy
There have been attempts to link squalene to Gulf War Syndrome. One study found that deployed Persian Gulf War Syndrome patients are significantly more likely to have antibodies to squalene (95 percent) than asymptomatic Gulf War veterans (0 percent; p<.001),[11]; however, the study concludes with the following statement: "It is important to note that our laboratory-based investigations do not establish that squalene was added as adjuvant to any vaccine used in military or other personnel who served in the Persian Gulf War era." A later study reported that many humans have squalene antibodies in their blood, regardless of whether or not they received squalene from a vaccination.[12]
However, subsequent investigation revealed that the study in question, which attempted to link squalene to Gulf War Syndrome, had several technical deficiencies in the way in which it analyzed its data. On top of this, it has been determined that the anthrax vaccines given to those US military personnel, did not actually contain added squalene.[13]
The World Health Organization and the US Department of Defense have both published extensive reports that emphasize that squalene is a chemical naturally occurring in the human body, present even in oils of human fingerprints.
WHO goes further to explain that squalene has been present in over 22 million flu vaccines given to patients in Europe since 1997 and there have never been significant vaccine-related adverse events.
The US DoD concluded that there are still many doubts to whether or not squalene containing vaccines are safe at all. "Some animal research to study arthritis used injections of tuberculosis-like bacteria (mycobacteria) dissolved in squalene (e.g., arthritis-prone rats, mice). Other studies assessed 100% squalene injected into rat tails or injected directly into joints. [14] The relevance of findings in susceptible animal species to humans is unclear. [15] Based on other research, it is clear that whether squalene causes harm or not is related to selected conditions of concentration, dose, route of application, and other factors. [16]"[17] | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:46:46 PM | | yes, true temp: If you read my earlier posts, I do point out that we already have squalene in our own bodies in small amounts. Earlier, I posted links to research on INJECTING Squalene, which causes a hyper autoimmune response just like Freun's adjuvant did, as well as the research study done @ UCLA, which proved that injecting ANY liposome (oil) is very very bad news, bc of the immune respoinse it activates. Gary Matsumoto reports on many of these studies, AS WELL AS A VERY KEY FACT ABOUT SQUALENE AND GULF WAR SYNDROME: The Gi's who had anto squalene antibodies were given an experimental UNLICENSED anthrax vaccine, and their records of recieving it intentionally obfuscated or destroyed bc they were part of an experiment and told that THEY WERE GETTING THE PRIOR FDA LICENSED (and very safe)VERSION OF THE ANTHRAX VACCINE When, in fact, the DOD had a difficult time getting an anthrax vax out in time for the Gulf War, which would require 6 shots to be effective-it wasn't convenient during the time of war for a soldier to need continuous booster shots every 2 weeks. So, what did the DOD do to solve this inconvenient problem? They added squalene, so the GI could only get one shot ( and his immunity hyperactivated), but did so despite clear medical research on the dangers of squalene. Once again, if you read Gary's book, and not just his website, this information is all covered, as well as info on how the Russians discovered that one of the best ways of creating 'bioterror', was through an attack by the body's own immune system. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:54:58 PM | The problem with that reasoning, Wiyan, is that because the chances are good that already have squalene antibodies prior to getting the anthrax vaccine, then that pretty much rules that out or, at the very least, renders the conclusion inconclusive. Also, are we to take your word about what a UCLA study says ("injecting ANY liposome is very, very bad news) since you have yet to actually establish any significant medical credentials?
And while we're at it, if you trust Mr. Matsumoto so much, then what is it that renders all the reporters covering the story that report there being little to no risk discreditable? That's what I would call biased hearing. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:26:06 PM | | the chances are not good that anyone would have antisqualene antibodies if they were never injected with it-check Pam Asa M.D.'s work @ Tulane university to educate yourself about that-it is not MY research, nor MY theory. Just bc someone is too lazy to look stuff up for themself does not make it ant more MY idea. I think you don't really want to take the time to check it out bc it is an inconvenient set of truths for you to dig into, but That- IS my opinionwink: and BTW, those researchers did not have financial ties to drug co's UNLIKE the heads at the CDC, whose conflicts of interest reads like a rap sheet when all the profits are added up, but alas, me thinks to you, that little factoid would conveniently be labeled a 'conspiracy', so that you could discredit it in your mind. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:39:12 PM | he chances are not good that anyone would have antisqualene antibodies if they were never injected with it
Oh...wait...
Vaccines with the MF59 adjuvant do not stimulate antibody responses against squalene.
Del Giudice G, Fragapane E, Bugarini R, Hora M, Henriksson T, Palla E, O'hagan D, Donnelly J, Rappuoli R, Podda A.
Research Center, Novartis Vaccines, Via Fiorentina 1, 53100 Siena, Italy. giuseppe_del_giudice@chiron.com
Squalene is a naturally occurring oil which has been used in the development of vaccine adjuvants, such as the oil-in-water emulsion MF59. In past years, by use of noncontrolled and nonvalidated assays, a claim was made that antisqualene antibodies were detectable in the sera of individuals with the so-called Gulf War syndrome. Using a validated enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay for the quantitation of immunoglobulin G (IgG) and IgM antibodies against squalene, we demonstrated that antisqualene antibodies are frequently detectable at very low titers in the sera of subjects who were never immunized with vaccines containing squalene. More importantly, vaccination with a subunit influenza vaccine with the MF59 adjuvant neither induced antisqualene antibodies nor enhanced preexisting antisqualene antibody titers. In conclusion, antisqualene antibodies are not increased by immunization with vaccines with the MF59 adjuvant. These data extend the safety profile of the MF59 emulsion adjuvant.
Well, that took all of five minutes.
and BTW, those researchers did not have financial ties to drug co's UNLIKE the heads at the CDC
And you have PROOF or just insinuation? Because if it's something you can prove, then take it to your elected representative or do something constructive rather than clucking your tongue at the big conspiracy. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:22:51 PM | at least you are looking- might be interested in learning the difference bw GC and HPCL now -differing assays produce different results :
Matyas G, RaoM, Alving C [Department of Membrane Biochemistry, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research "InductionInduction and detection of antibodies to Squalene II Optimization of the assay for murine antibodies" Jpurnal of Immunological zMethods (2002) Sep 15;267(2):119
it's pretty important to understand the distinction in how the testing was done | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:38:25 PM | here are some glaring conflicts of interest for you to chew on:
www.naturalnews.com/027336_swine_flu_health_propaganda.html
but, despite all of the evidence out there, by MDs and reporters too about adjuvants and conflicts of interest w/ those promoting the jab, those who want to take the shot will make the most important link in the end, so to those who will take it, best of luck to you. Every experiment needs its guinea pigs | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:49:53 PM | Lets just see the pics of Obama , the first lady
and the kids ,with thier sleeves up getting the jab.
I think alot of people would feel safer when that happends. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:14:58 AM | Lets just see the pics of Obama , the first lady
and the kids ,with thier sleeves up getting the jab.
I think alot of people would feel safer when that happends.
Well, now Twister, you know they'll be saying "It's only a placebo." That's a no-win, and you know it.
Seriously Wiyan, if your sources are only those who agree with you, then it's hardly an unbiased approach. Why don't you check your sources? Quite frankly, the anti-vaccine faction is nothing more than noise that confuses a lot of people and keeps them from taking steps to protect themselves and their families. It's beyond irresponsible. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:22:09 AM | Wow, at the crack of dawn, there are some who start their day's first thought musing on research biases and the Obama family yup stargazer all research starts out with a premise-to prove or disprove a theorem | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:46:08 AM |
yup stargazer all research starts out with a premise-to prove or disprove a theorem
However, real scientists understand the differences.
I noticed your "proof" of conflict of interest was from naturalnews.com. Nope, not a biased website there. Wonder if they have any "natural" products to sell? | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:45:15 AM |
What makes you think that they haven't already had vaccine shots, all of them?
Well I seen this artical
that press secretary Randy Gibbs
claims the" vaccine isnt available to them because of their 'risk' "
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/10/08/first-daughters-not-vaccinated-against-h1n1/ | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:39:04 PM | | Hi Twister-I would think it would be the duty of Secret Service to thoroughly check the risk/benefit analysis before they recieve the jab-reminds me of the official food tasters for royal families in the olden days-to prevent poisoning. Today in the news, several French citizens have sued their government over the vaccine. Interesting development. I think where I read it was an English source-field and stone? If anyone has the link to the story in LeMonde, I would like to read that as well-non translated original French is preferable for me to read about this story. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:42:21 PM | | This just in...the First Children (?) have got their flu shot. The President and First Lady are waiting until it's distributed to high risk groups. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:00:22 PM | Hi Wiyan , thanks for the informative posts you have provided to date. It seems the time has come that parents need to start making their choice about the jab for the kids. A friend was sent a letter today saying the school, will be giving the vaccine at the end of the week...like many others , she is confused as what to do .
As skeptic as I am , a choice has to be made now. The deaths I have read about so far are from the flu itself, but I havent heard of any deaths from the vaccine as of yet...except in the early testing days ...like those 22 from Poland that died.
I am thinking there must have been millions that have been injected in the world so far ,anyone know if there is there any data that shows how many have had bad side effects or died from the jab yet ? | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:06:44 PM | Here's two deaths from the virus to consider. Or maybe they just didn't eat enough veggies, eh?
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/61635--13-year-old-etobicoke-boy-dies-of-h1n1-virus | |
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