| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:48:45 PM | SG - you just read my thoughts. The deaths from flu are real and occuring now. Two young folks in our province. Happened so fast their was no time to save them. They 're just rolling out the vaccine here so - lets see the results as we go forward.
I have a similar link (CTV-Canadian network for you US Folks) with the same story and an interesting video on the side. Check out this link and go to the video from Doctor Amand Kumar (right hand side of page). He gives a very good talk about the virus and the vaccine.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091027/boy_fludeath_091017/20091027/?hub=TorontoNewHome | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:37:52 PM | | This province has had 9 deaths from H1N1. Three MORE have been reported since Friday, among a population of 4 million or so, most of whom have not had either flu vaccine THIS year. Seasonal flu vaccine has been available here for about two weeks - no deaths in the news from that. 2009 pandemic vaccine was available yesterday, with 6 hour lines at the local clinics. Not surprisingly, the evidence thus far favors vaccines and science, rather than paranoia and conspiracy theory. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:15:25 PM | | Based solely on how persistent this flu has been and how it's just run down myself, my family, and my friends, who are all in good health, generally, I'd say you're a fool to eschew the H1N1 vaccination. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:41:22 PM | | SG-when you turn on your puter, what do you see? Ads When you log in to POF, what do you see? ads. When you watch TV, what do you see and hear? ads. When you read a newspaper, what do you see? more ads. Even when you read an esteemed medical journal, what do you see? Research which is often payed for by Drug Companies. So, lets be clear here. You, without even bothering to read the very factual information about media Mogul Rupert Murdoch and family associates to Big pharma, shun it and claim-OH, CONSPIRACY FOR SURE!!!!!!!!!!!--laziness, only laziness can explain the lack of interest in true facts-the article was not even an opinion on a medical study, but you wouldn't look at it, so ya wouldn't know that. I get it, you don't care about reporting of the facts regarding the business aspect of vaccines. Some people do care though . It really is of no consequence to me if some folks get the shot-as I have said, I wish them all well. I think people should have all the info, inclusive of what conclusions that info draws so they can best make up their own minds . | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:26:20 AM | Bottom line Wiyan...if you don't want to take the vaccine, then don't. However, it would be MYsuggestion that you actually gain a few more credentials before you start making recommendations that might prove deadly for someone. The actual science says vaccines are safe. I'll go with that, thank you.
You seem to suggest that I'm ignorant of the profit motive and the role it plays in just about..well...everything. Of course, I must be, eh? I'm not you. I actually support and speak in favour of getting a vaccine shot. Well, this is the society we've created. Yes, there is profit to be had. But that's not the point. The more paranoid among us see conspiracy in that, and that's where we start getting into "Big Pharma created H1N1." The point that people seem to miss is that nature is far better at creating nasty diseases than we can ever be.
Isn't it interesting that none of these discussions were front and center until H1N1. People got their flu vaccines (or not) on their own choice. Now everyone is barking about what vaccines will and won't do - even though this vaccine is produced no differently then any number of vaccines they've received in the past. What point you seem to miss is that everyone has been exposed to vaccines of one kind or another and, hey! Guess what! The majority of us are actually okay for it!
Bottom line! Vaccines save lives! More people are alive than not now as a result of them. All this paranoid nonsense about "Big bad pharma" is just smoke and mirrors and a way for people to feel superior because they "know" something others don't. Whether it's true or plausible or not is irrelevant to them. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:48:51 AM | death linked to Omnivest Swine Flu vaccine:
www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/13267/219/
death linked to GlaxoSmithKline SwineFlu vaccine (approved by the FDA): www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article6001249.ab
[second article in swedish] | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:11:05 PM |
death linked to Omnivest Swine Flu vaccine:
www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/13267/219/
A direct causal link hasn't been established nor can it be ruled out which is why they have autopsies. Secondly, there was a paragraph directly under it about a 47-year-old man dying from H1N1. We also have, in Ontario, cases of two children who were found to have died of swine flu.
So I'm forced to wonder. If they ever find a vaccine against HIV, are you going to recommend against it? Or should they just eat more sweet potatoes? | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:33:35 PM | only 17% of French citizens will take H1N1 vaccine, from Oest Dimanche and LeMonde (in French):
www.lepoint.fr/grippe-a-h1n1/2009-10-24/sondage-17-des-francais-prets-a-se-faire-vacciner/2024/0/388711
Germans complain Politicians are being iven a safer vaccine than citizens (Der Spiegel-in English):
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0, 1518, 656028,00.html
also worth having a look is Scotland (The Scotsman), research of Dr Graeme Laver on flu prevention via vaccines- sorry no link at the moment, (googleable) | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:01:57 PM |
only 17% of French citizens will take H1N1 vaccine, from Oest Dimanche and LeMonde (in French):
www.lepoint.fr/grippe-a-h1n1/2009-10-24/sondage-17-des-francais-prets-a-se-faire-vacciner/2024/0/388711
Germans complain Politicians are being iven a safer vaccine than citizens (Der Spiegel-in English):
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0, 1518, 656028,00.html
To which I say...so what? An appeal to number and innuendo isn't "proof" of anything. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/28/2009 7:07:29 PM |
also worth having a look is Scotland (The Scotsman), research of Dr Graeme Laver on flu prevention via vaccines- sorry no link at the moment, (googleable)
I like Googling- this leads to a paper by a Dr Gary Null- a homeopathic medicine provider- endorsed by the Nutrition Institute of America.
http://www.garynull.com/SwineFluWhitePaper.pdf
Dr Graeme (who just past away god bless him-Google him up) was a promoter of anti viral drugs such as Tamiflu. He felt these were more effective than vaccine and felt vaccine wasn't as effective or available enough. Their quote of him was kind of misleading. The other names and issues were of all the others in previous articles from Wiyan (Tenpenny,Gary Masumato etc).
Anyway- from my old favourite - Wikipedia- a little quote from "Homeopathy"
"Claims of homeopathy's efficacy beyond the placebo effect are unsupported by the collective weight of scientific and clinical evidence.[8][9][10][11][12] While some studies have positive results, systematic reviews of all the published trials fail to conclusively demonstrate efficacy.[13][14][15][16][17] Furthermore, higher quality trials tend to report less positive results,[15][18] and most positive studies have not been replicated or show methodological problems that prevent them from being considered unambiguous evidence of homeopathy's efficacy.[8][11][19][20]
Homeopathic remedies generally contain few or no pharmacologically active molecules,[21] and for such remedies to have pharmacological effect would violate fundamental principles of science.[12][22] Modern homeopaths have proposed that water has a memory that allows homeopathic preparations to work without any of the original substance; however, the physics of water are well understood, and no known mechanism permits such a memory.[22][23] The lack of convincing scientific evidence supporting homeopathy's efficacy[24] and its use of remedies lacking active ingredients have caused homeopathy to be described as pseudoscience or quackery.[25][26][27][28][29]." | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 1:30:12 AM | If a vaccine saves a million lives and gives one person a runny nose, there will always be those who cry out to avoid the deadly runny-nose vaccine. Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy.
In my line of work I have to take the vaccine, but I would have anyway. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:15:22 AM | | Every vaccine has a risk. What if people were this paranoid about the polio or smallpox vaccine? I plan on getting the vaccine as soon as its available to me. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:22:41 AM | | Oh, rock, abby, there you guys go being all sensible! Conspiracy theories are much more fun! You don't actually have to have any proof but you can make yourself feel very smart by asking questions like you already know the answer and then act like anyone who disagrees with you is simply gullible or deluded. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 1:53:38 PM | | I bet the parents of kids who played hockey with that poor boy that died a few days ago are asking for the shot. Its all very easy to debate here about the positives and negatives and who may gain and who is conspiring against us ..... but if kids around you that are healthy and thriving die in a matter of hours from H1N1 then you would do the same thing... get the shot. You can take all the vitamins.. or herbs.. or drink your pee.. or get special machines from the internet... or mystic crystals... or pray to your god and anything else... In the end if the virus starts taking out your neighbours kids then you will rush your kids to the doctor and beg for it. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:16:24 PM | My area is considered a hot spot. [Kingston Ontario]
the problem I see is .... all flu deaths and all tested cases of the flu have been H1N1 and not the Seasonal Flu.
so ... if you have had the flu lately its probably H1N1
they won't test you though unless you are a serious life threatening case.
so .... the true stats of as to how much of what flu is around are not really reliable.
and most people with the flu or just got over it ... will not benefit from a H1N1 shot.
[they are already building up their own antibodies and the show will do nothing]
they should be testing more people with the flu to see how much of what kind is really out there
also I was told that the contageous duration of the H1N1 flu is before you even know you have the flu so ... you are spreadding it long befor you even get sick and by the time you are feverish you are no longer contageous.
good luck people
I've already done my 2wks of extra sleep and fluids and garlic pills.
it was milder than the flu I had about 20 years ago.
the biggest danger seems to be for teens and early twenties
a young healthy hockey player just died around here ... only took 3 days of neglect and some overexertion. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 3:09:41 PM | I think the reluctance some people have to getting the flu shot for their children is one of not actively wanting to cause harm to their children.
If the flu shot will increase your child's chance of getting the GB syndrome by 1 in a million, but their chance of dying from H1N1 is about 1 in 1000 or 1 in 5000 if they catch it (I think they're predicting 1 in 3 will catch it), statistically every parent should choose to have their child inoculated.
However, as a parent you're facing the choice of taking an active chance of having your child get a debilitating syndrome or passively taking a 1 in 15,000 chance of your child dying.
Even though a mortality of 1 in 15,000 is more likely than 1 in a million, as a parent, you might choose that 1 in 15,000 of having your child die, because you didn't actively cause it.
I think it's an underlying biological emotional impediment parents are facing. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 6:02:00 PM |
Homeopathy?? Really? How does that fit in with the discussion here?
Wiyan- you seem like a nice kid. But you have to read past the headlines and claims of some of these articles. That last reference to Dr Gary Null's article you had- I actually did read (quickly) all 95 pages. He was citing information from homeopaths- which he was at one time. If you want a history of the doctor look at this-
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/null.html
Don't you think that maybe these folks are trying to get you to buy their stuff instead of medicine? I have personal experience with one or two chiropractors trying to do this to me. The one I go to now does not do this and works in conjunction with doctors. She does her manipulations and sends people who are very sick to doctors.
Anyone speaking on the vaccine issue in absolute terms, stating absolutely safe or absolutely deadly is not rational or honest. All I can say is your chances of dying from the flu is low and dying from the vaccine is much lower.
Geez - why can't the conspiracy people pick on something easier and more fun to attack- something I could get behind - like Wall Street. That my friends is a conspiracy of epic proportions! I could swing a stick there and hit more evils doers than in the state pen. Guess I'll have to start my own website.
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 6:41:11 PM | In the age of Frankenfoods and fish gene tomatoes, it's quite difficult to know who to trust. Government? FDA? EPA? ETC? Seems those who scream the loudest, somehow trust the mostest from those they protested the most earlier. This is not conspiracy. It's about past performance, current panic, and corporate responsibility using sound science. What is so frigging threatening about truth, science and accountability? In the panic, they are combining genes from dog kidneys, eggs, insects, and all manner of Frankenshites to come up with the leading contender for the most bucks the fastest. Perhaps freaking out might be worse than keeping our calm and doing this thing right, honestly and safely.
http://www.my-nigeria.com/2009/08/15/vaccine-causes-outbreak-of-mutant-polio-in-nigeria/
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2009/08/07/swine-flu-health-expert-warning/does-virus-vaccine-increase-risk-of-cancer.html#%23 | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:00:22 PM | I agree Earth Puppy-here's a story from Times Of India (tho it's out in many places, I just am keeping tabs on the story around the world and wanted to check India out too:
[it's about Baxter getting caught by Chezch labs for their part in this pandemic]:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health-Science/Science/Virus-mix-up-by-lab-could-have-resulted-in-pandemic/articleshow/4230882.cms
and, checking news in Austria (Kronen Zeitung), a story of four deaths following vaccination with pandemrix for Swine flu:
www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2009-10-27/17570/four_deaths_from_flu_virus_
as noted before, the Cochrane report is a lengthy, but great resource from a compendium of vaccine research-be prepared for much medical lingo
:
www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab0004876.html
yes, everyone, swine flu is here-this is not the time to take our health for granted or push ourselves too hard-ie not enough sleep, not eating right, not handwashing ,etc.
Will the vaccine absolutely protect you and the kids?????????? Read the research, as much as you can. It is our responsibility to educate ourselves megatons, on all sides | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:28:10 PM |
Read the research, as much as you can. It is our responsibility to educate ourselves megatons, on all sides
And that's advice everyone can agree with, I should think. | |
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