|
|
|
|
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/29/2009 9:38:23 PM | | Hey Earth puppy-that is so sad! First Hilary Koprowski from Wistar institute using SIV infected monkey kidney tissue cultures and starting HIV in the Congo, and now polio in Nigeria. I tried twice and couldn't pull up the other link. Hope someone else has better luck. Thanks for your informative posts!- Wiyan | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:19:04 PM |
First Hilary Koprowski from Wistar institute using SIV infected monkey kidney tissue cultures and starting HIV in the Congo
Googled up-Nice read- I found an article on it from Stanford U.
Hey I found a link that shows the HIV may have happened even early than anyone thought. It's an article from Rueters done recently in 2009.
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE4906Q620081002
Good article on Polio EarthPuppy. They're still battling polio in Nigeria while the rest of the world is pretty much clear. I hope they can contain that new strain before it spreads. Guess the vaccine is a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you view it.
But more back on topic, and someone asked early- the Obama girls already got their flu vaccine. People are crying fowl because they got preferential treatment. Obama that wanker! lol
See the link
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-10-29-obama-H1N1-flu_N.htm | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:00:50 PM | The vaccine is experimental. Why would President Obama or his kids be allowed to get an experimental vaccine? That defies logic, which means they didn't get the actual vaccine. Most likely, they got a placebo or nothing.
People need to stop deviating from the facts. Fact is, the vaccine is experimental. Anything else construed is pointless. To get the vaccine because you think its all just conspiracy mumbo jumbo or to not get the vaccine because you believe in all the conspiracy mumbo jumbo is pure idiocy.
Stick with the facts. Don't deviate from the truth.
Obviously, I'm not getting the shot-based vaccine. I'm most likely getting the nasal-based. If I can't get the nasal-based, I'm not getting vaccinated. Worst that will happen by getting the nasal-based vaccine is that I will come down with H1N1 and/or spread it. Not much of a big deal because it isn't like Ebola. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:30:43 AM | | So after all the hype and publicity to get our flu shot, hearing how its our civic duty to keep those around us safe, our Ontario government is running out of vaccine and can only promise to inoculate the high-risk groups at this point. The rest of us have to wait for weeks. I have a feeling that when this is all finished, the vaccine will, in fact, have been a dangerous business, to the politicians who happen to be in power. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:52:28 AM | and, checking news in Austria (Kronen Zeitung), a story of four deaths following vaccination with pandemrix for Swine flu:
www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2009-10-27/17570/four_deaths_from_flu_virus_
Wiyan, I read that article and it says that four died from the flu, NOT the vaccine and the two alleged deaths from the vaccine have not been confirmed.
This is how rumors become "fact" in some people's eyes.
The proof is that far more people live after being vaccinated than die. This is evidenced by the vaccnines for smallpox and polio which have all but erradicated the diseases.
I had the H1N1 vaccine last Thursday; I am in two risk groups - health care and asthma. I am not willing to risk giving the flu to my patients. Two days later my only symptom of tenderness at the injection site is almost gone.
This is the first flu shot that I have had; I felt this flu is signficant enough to do so.
I will keep you updated if I die from the vaccine.  | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 12:56:45 PM | | Optimist-the article stated that they were doing autopsies. It would be impossible to stae a causal link as the fact that they died following vaccination was not part of a 'double blind controlled clinical study'. However, that all being said, I think the timing of the deaths right after vaccination is important information, Epecially, bc one can't make a statement on causation with statistically small numbers. I think ANY death following vaccination is important information, regardless if it wasn't part of an official study. I am glad you feel ok so far and hope you continue to feel well! I do know that many vaccine reactions develop even several months after the jab, though hopefully that info will be completely irrelevant in your case! | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 1:02:55 PM | | lol, guys, its all statistics. Millions of people are getting the vaccine. If you take a sample of a million random people, just by pure statistics some of those people will die within a couple of days. Thats what happens when you deal with very large numbers. This is propaganda. And unfortunately, judging by your response, its propaganda that is working :( | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 4:34:04 PM | Wiyan, I agree completely that any death following vaccination needs to be investigated. There are reported deaths due to vaccinations. I definitely do not deny that.
My point was that the article you posted a link to was misquoted. There were not 4 deaths due to the vaccination, there were 2 that were still being investigated; the 4 WERE due to H1N1.
It does no one any good to misquote an article to prove your point; it makes me wonder how valid the rest of your proofs are. I only looked at one article that you posted and that one was misquoted.
You seem to be well informed, so if you can find articles that do support your opinion, they would be more valid to post.
I do believe that there will be far more deaths of non vaccinated people than deaths due to the vaccination. I agree that it is very sad if someone dies after being vaccinated and I would be devastated if someone I loved died that way. However, past history of vaccinations show that many, many more people die if they are not vaccinated. It is a sad, difficult fact that some people will die; the numbers that do should be minimized and I believe the vaccine does that.
I did a lot of research myself before I decided to get the shot and even after reading all these anti shot posts, I still feel I made the right decision. | |
|
| |
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:11:36 PM | Between April and last week, we had 9 pandemic related deaths. Since last weekend we have had 5 more. We have a population here of less than four million, the vast majority of whom have neither had this flu, nor a vaccination. The mortality rate is much higher, though it often involves additional health issues which make it worse.
Compared to the above figure, the rate is a MINIMUM of 7x higher, but actually much higher.
We now have 5 vaccination clinics for 1 million people. Two of those closed this morning minutes after opening, the fifth was closed by noon with 9 hour lineups. The first closed 15 minutes BEFORE it opened, due to the line length. We also have a clinic dedicated to diagnosis of people who think they have flu, and 16 paramedic units also dedicated for that. By this evening, all vaccination clinics were closed until further notice due to vaccine shortage.
There is reason to take this disease seriously. It DOES kill, and the more it spreads, the more virulent it will become. This is why governments and the medical community are taking it so seriously.
Both adjuvenated and non-adjuvenated vaccines are in use, with the latter being used here preferentially for pregnant women. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:18:42 PM |
There is reason to take this disease seriously. It DOES kill, and the more it spreads, the more virulent it will become. This is why governments and the medical community are taking it so seriously.
Although, without getting into conspiracy BS, I wonder if the current status of the efforts against swine flu - particularly the shortage of vaccine - is indicative of some serious shortfalls in the pandemic planning process.
Once the smoke clears, I hope they plan on holding a few Inquiries to look closely (and, lol, "honestly") about how this was handled. It begs the question, what if this had been something even stronger and more virulent. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:55:41 PM | With all the hysteria and misinformation flying around,I think there was trouble getting the message correct about vaccine availability both inside and outside the government. I think there is a concern that medical facilities will become over whelmed if panic ensues.
Here's a report just in on vaccine deliveries and overall numbers of deaths in the US.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/31/2009-10-31_drug_companies_boost_swine_vaccine_production_to_meet_demand_ten_million_doses_d.html
This flu is different from typical flu virus. See the video clip I posted earlier from the Manitoba government Dr. Anand Kumar. He said this virus has done a major shift and this concerns health officials. He also goes on to say this vaccine is no riskier than any other vaccine. See video on this web page from the doctor-
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091027/boy_fludeath_091017/20091027/?hub=TorontoNewHome
I'll be getting my "jab" when it becomes available, if for no other reason but to limit its spread. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:28:54 PM | | hi.. ^^^^ believing that vaccines limit the spread of the flu means their work with you is done.... me a few others have our certainty that vaccines cause harm..... blessings | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:34:40 PM |
believing that vaccines limit the spread of the flu means their work with you is done.... me a few others have our certainty that vaccines cause harm.....
Something even more harmful...ignorance and misinformation. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:44:03 PM |
me a few others have our certainty that vaccines cause harm..... blessings
Devoid of any useful evidence, of course.
When was the last time you heard of a case of smallpox? Have you ever wondered about that dime-sized scar on your shoulder? Has that smallpox vaccination "harmed" you yet? Or are you perhaps a touch too young to have ever had it? You can be sure your parents had it, regardless. Everyone in the world got it. Strangely, we didn't all die or come down with this elusive case of "harm".
Incidentally, it dawned on me a few days ago why I hate getting needles. I was in grade 1 or 2 when I got my smallpox shot, and that is the earliest vaccination I can remember. I remember it well because it HURT! | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:53:00 PM |
Between April and last week, we had 9 pandemic related deaths. Since last weekend we have had 5 more. We have a population here of less than four million, the vast majority of whom have neither had this flu, nor a vaccination. The mortality rate is much higher, though it often involves additional health issues which make it worse.
I've been following a swine flu surveillance listing Canadian mortalities due to the flu, listed by province
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/surveillance-eng.php
According to it, there have been only 12 deaths in Alberta, up to October 29, but I tend to believe you, FrogO, when you state something, because you normally have a valid source.
There's obviously a lot of discrepancy in the information being published right now. It will be interesting once this whole thing is over with to see exactly what happened. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:56:30 PM | "Something even more harmful...ignorance and misinformation."
... yes, the ignorance and misinformation around vaccines has proven to be very harmful... blessings for good information | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 8:03:55 PM |
... yes, the ignorance and misinformation around vaccines has proven to be very harmful...
And the misinformation from those opposed to vaccination even worse. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 8:23:59 PM |
... yes, the ignorance and misinformation around vaccines has proven to be very harmful
The evidence against this claim is significant. The evidence supporting it has not been presented.
According to it, there have been only 12 deaths in Alberta, up to October 29, but I tend to believe you, FrogO
It was nine a week ago. Over last weekend, three more were reported, and two more over this weekend. Although I don't read or watch the "news", my car radio is normally on the news/weather/traffic station in order to navigate traffic jams and accidents. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:03:53 PM | Frogo-I'm not a big fan of getting needles or medication either- I guess it stems back to being a child with tonsil problems from birth- I don't really remember but my mom told me I got a lot of penicillin until I was three and finally had the tonsils removed. But now as a big person shots don't bother me- hardly feel it. I know I haven't been seriously ill in about a decade- missed three days work.
I've read through all the information Wiyan and friends offered and it was seriously lacking- distortions, out of context quotes, screaming headlines that misrepresented the text underneath and disreputed sources. I though they might be able to present a better case than that but it was really disappointing. The problem is that to the layman it looks like science too but is just a reflection with no substance. Its like walking onto a movie set set for a old Western town- looks like the really thing until you open the doors and find nothing behind the store front.
This story is still developing and new information will be developing over the next several months. It will be difficult to pin down exact numbers at any time but the generally you should be able to get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.
From what NSL 's link in Canada there are 95 deaths attributed to the virus, which is a lot this early in the flu season. We'll have to see how this plays out and how fast the inoculation programs work. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:15:29 PM | Ok, so people want to know how bad H1N1 is? Here is some useful info.
The civilian population is getting vaccinated for H1N1 before the military. This strategically makes sense because you don't want to give your military an experimental vaccine, then have it become crippled as a result of some miscalculation. Obviously, that would jeopardize national security. If H1N1 were truly as much of a threat to national security as presented, the military would be vaccinated before the civilian population. This is not the case and as we can see, there is now a vaccine shortage.
Most military people were already given the nasal-based vaccine for the seasonal flu. There is a 21 day wait period before people vaccinated against seasonal flu can be vaccinated against H1N1. The military will most likely end up only getting the nasal-based vaccine for H1N1 or not being vaccinated at all. With how the shortages are going, this further seems like what will end up happening.
Its not rocket science that the H1N1 vaccine is experimental. Simple logic says so, which if you want facts, then just analyze behavior. The saying is "actions speak louder than words". Future complications within months or years is more probable than dropping over dead immediately from the H1N1 vaccine. What sort of complications? No one knows, because there has been little to no testing done for the H1N1 vaccine, which is why it is called an experimental vaccine. To say the H1N1 vaccine is safe is pure ludicrous.
Only time will tell. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:32:03 PM | So- what leads you to believe this vaccine is "experimental"? All the other flu vaccines have been developed in the same time frame with the same processes as this one.
Why would the nasal version be any better or worse than a needle? Because its not a needle?
Why would the government want to risk its taxpayers , who they need alive to pay taxes and vote for them versus their military who are obviously there to serve the country and die fore it if needed? It would be the perfect place to conduct an experiment as others here have pointed out with the experimental anthrax vaccine rumour from the 70's.
Your logic is solely your own I'm afraid. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:59:08 PM |
Its not rocket science that the H1N1 vaccine is experimental
I gather you're not a rocket scientist?
The civilian population is getting vaccinated for H1N1 before the military. This strategically makes sense because you don't want to give your military an experimental vaccine, then have it become crippled as a result of some miscalculation. Obviously, that would jeopardize national security. If H1N1 were truly as much of a threat to national security as presented, the military would be vaccinated before the civilian population.
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, complicated by a failure to appreciate psychology, population dynamics, and the characteristics of the virus. First, it is the general populace which is most in fear of a pandemic, AND most at risk. Diseases spread more rapidly in crowds, and especially among children. Even if military personnel were at significant risk, it would arouse a huge outcry if soldiers got preferential treatment. By comparison, the ONLY people offered anthrax protection are military personnel because the public is generally not at risk. In terms of at-risk populations for pandemic 2009, one of the key groups is pregnant women and those they contact [children, teachers, medical personnel]. How many of these are military?
What sort of complications? No one knows, because there has been little to no testing done for the H1N1 vaccine, which is why it is called an experimental vaccine.
You're making a false comparison here. The ingredients of the vaccine ARE tested, because they are the same as is found in other vaccines. What is experimental is whether the viral antigens used in the vaccine will actually be effective in creating an immune response which will also work against the live virus. The antigens are often just proteins found in the virus' shell, and the structure and variety of these change as the virus mutates. For the vaccine to work, the antigens selected have to be mostly the same as those on most of the virii by the time the vaccine is produced and distributed. Otherwise, these antigens lack anything special to necessitate testing. Ultimately however, pandemic vaccine has been put through the same testing as any other influenza vaccine. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 10:06:46 PM | The nasal based only contains the weakened form of the virus. Its a live virus, just weakened. The shot-based has a crap load of different additives that have been increased pure dose, which realistically, the side effects of the increased dose of additives aren't able to be predicted without a long term study.
The military bought up millions of doses of the vaccine before testing began, but still the civilian population ended up getting vaccinated before the military. Military members are taxpayers too, you can't differentiate. If a vaccine were experimental, you sure as heck wouldn't give it to your military. The military is an essential, a slice of civilians is not. With how shortages are going, it looks more like dead weight is getting vaccinated.
Sorry if this appears rude, I'm just presenting it to where you can understand what I'm saying.
Broken information on the H1N1 vaccine combined with acclimating hysteria is likely to kill people. Broken information such as health professionals saying its perfectly fine to get both the seasonal flu vaccine and H1N1 vaccine at the same time. Another is of some schools doing vaccinations, which some kids would have to get up to four shots at the same time depending on age and if they have ever been vaccinated before. Again, another is not taking into account of mixing different brands of vaccine when vaccinating people with the seasonal flu and H1N1 vaccine at the same time. All of these result in the vaccine not doing what it is designed to do and/or unknown complications.
If my logic seems cryptic, too bad on your part. | |
|
| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 10/31/2009 10:11:19 PM | Well now you've done it, Naissance man...you've revealed their secret.
Don't mix up mixed messages with conspiracy. It's confusion at best and incompetence at worst. But it's all quite human, really. Welcome to the first major pandemic in a few decades. Very few if any who have practical experience with this sort of thing.
Clearly, a lot of learning to do. | |
|
|
| Page 12 of 25
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 |
|
Home
login 
