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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:25:15 AM |
There is no difference between the squalene in the vaccine and the squalene that is produced naturally inside your own body. It is of course possible that adding significant amounts of squalene to your system could cause some type of problem
And just how do we define "significant" amounts of squalene or mercury or any of the other bad things that are supposed to be deleterious in the vaccination? Because, as far as I can tell, you would have to be vaccinated each and every day, several times a day in order for things like mercury, etc, to build up to significant quantities to be harmful.
Of course, fear mongering is much more fun. It makes you sound like you're striking out against "them" and you can use clever little phrases like "sheeple" to make yourself feel better than the others. It also accomplishes absolutely nothing.
But here's a point...you don't have to take the shot, if you don't want to. You have the right to refuse. Heck, even if you work in fields where they are requiring it, you have that right. Just realize that right will also come with the need to find a new job. But then, if you are in a job that requires something that is personally and ethically offensive to you, then why stay? | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 8:44:17 AM |
But then, if you are in a job that requires something that is personally and ethically offensive to you, then why stay?
You want people to take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences of their choices??? That isn't very politically correct  | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 12:31:10 PM | NSlass and rhino-don't take our word for it, do your own research. I respectfully recognize your right to make up your own mind. No need to listen to links from doctors, nurses and scientists, just believe what your tv tells you and call all else a "conspiracy".Make sure you are in first position to get the shot and do let us know how you feel after the jab  | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 3:46:09 PM | | I've already had my flu shot, and I'll be required to get the H1N1 flu shot when it's available. So far ten days out from the flu shot, I feel fine. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 5:00:38 PM |
I bet many of us would be interested to hear how you feel. about 90 days after you get the swine flu jab
And how are we going to establish a causal link between the two? What if I just feel like crap that day for some unrelated reason? | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 5:09:35 PM | | obviously, one anectode does not a causal link make. Anyone who reads medical journals knows that, or independent writing by physicians who know that the price of 'peer reviewed' is cowtowing to bigPharma to get published........Anectodes still have value, though clearly they are not connected to double blind studies either... | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:15:42 PM | | No shot of any kind for me thank you. This is yet another scheme whereby big pharma gets paid. Oh yes, very much like that terrible anthrax outbreak right after 9/11, or has everyone forgotten about that. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 5:06:10 AM | If some of you are worried that the government and pharmaceutical companies are in conspiracy to make money by creating a pandemic panic or to reduce the global population you might also want to look to those saviours who are exposing these frauds and claiming a global-scale bioterrism conspiracy: Jane Burgermeister, the attractive Austrian journalist filing a claim against the US government is now being criticized by individuals who you would think would be behind her cause: those against mandatory vaccinations. Here's a quote from someone who worked with Jane and realized she was using her cause to get people's money:
your bullets on the Saviour of the Day are very appropriate in reference to Jane Burgermeister. I worked very closely with her this summer and provided daily advocacy support to her with the Facebook Group that shot over 1000 members a week up to 7,300 before I realized we were being scammed, and withdrew my support for her.
It gets worse after that, but if you're interested, you can read the blog entries at the following Web site:
http://labvirus.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/jane-burgermeister-the-most-fraudulent-person-on-the-internet/
I would never believe that the global government is cohesive or intelligent enough (even a govt within a country) to pull off any type of global conspiracy, but I do believe that there are many profiteers who will use fear and now the Internet for their own personal gain. I strongly suspect that this Jane Bergermeister is such a profiteer. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 7:08:37 AM | | hi... some things look good in theory but the actual process does not happen as planned or expected, something like government for example..... outside of drug addicts and people who work around needles, how many of us catch the flu from it being directly injected into our bloodstream?... well look for those numbers to rise very shortly... some of us who are into alternative health practices do not see a non reaction to a poison as a sign of health, we see it as a weakened immune situation or a decrease in life energy to throw off or to fight that which is injurious to the body .... blessings for health | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 7:15:23 AM | Mona - You don't even know how vaccines work.
Are you aware of what the immune system is?
Vaccines inject a very weakened, nearly dead strain of the flu into your body. The immune system, like the borg, kills the flu and learns how to adapt to the virus.
People who have HIV or another disease which cripples the immune system wont benefit from vaccines for this very reason. This is why vaccines work. Sometimes, they don't work as intended and the flu will gather up their strength OR the flu itself was injected with full strength. Either way this is do to human error a lot of the time. it doesn't mean the method is wrong. It just means that sometimes humans make mistakes. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 7:20:08 AM | | hi... ^^^^^ I would not be commenting if I did not know how they work but then again you did.... yes humans make mistakes, making vaccines is an example...blessings | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 7:33:03 AM |
yes humans make mistakes, making vaccines is an example
Okay, everyone who wants Smallpox back, thank Monalee for her nice contribution to the discussion, mmmkay?
(and Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Typhus, Whooping Cough...)  | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:17:25 AM | | ^^Add rabies to that list, since vaccinating our pets against that lovely disease has prevented numerous deaths to pet owners who let their pets roam outside among the local wildlife. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:54:32 AM | | More than likely it's a claim without evidence and 20+ years ago. I smell another irrational conspiracy theorist looking to lay blame regardless of the facts. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:56:18 AM | Here is a interesting video and links exposing the real reason behind the swine flu. Do a little research and you will be surprised at what you find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNrMY9vsiCc
http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/medical/swine_flu.htm
http://www.siude.com/voices/column-swine-flu-the-illuminati-nanobots-and-george-bush-1.1735260 | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 12:13:03 PM |
Here is a interesting video and links exposing the real reason behind the swine flu. Do a little research and you will be surprised at what you find.
To quote the Kinks..."Paranoia will destroy ya!"
Good tune. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 1:22:04 PM | Do a little research and you will be surprised at what you find
Not surprised in the least. I found a string of unsubstantiated claims, conspiracy theory, and fallacious arguments. Okay, the anti-semitism was a bit of a surprise, though I suppose it shouldn't have been. The pure idiocy of these "sources" is almost beyond description. There were obvious clues before I actually looked, but rest-assured, with web sites like "www.goodnewsaboutgod.com" and "column-swine-flu-the-illuminati-nanobots-and-george-bush-1.1735260", you get exactly what you might expect.
I'll do something these sites do not. I will actually SUBSTANTIATE my arguments.
From the second link posted:
1. Swine Flu is a Hoax. The symptoms of supposed swine flu are indistinguishable from regular flu or from the common cold
The symptoms of cold and flu are similar, but different.
The fact that different kinds of flu have the same symptoms is a truism - that's part of why they're called "flu" and not "mumps". Different strains of flu are recognized not because they have different effects, but because they are different enough from one another to infect someone who is already immune to other types. If you've had a particular strain of flu, it is likely you will never get that strain again.
It does NOT cause death anymore often than the regular flu causes death.
Post hoc fallacy. Accurate death rates can't be predicted thus far. Only infection rates can, and that requires the disease spreading in the first place so it can be measured. In any case, "regular flu" causes upwards of 500000 deaths per year. The Spanish flu, a version of H1N1 from a century ago, killed millions.
2. There is NO “pandemic potential”
No, it's a pandemic fact. Since the disease has spread between countries and within countries worldwide, it is by definition a pandemic. Pandemic means, roughly, "across all populations". "Epidemic" means, roughly, "upon the population" [local].
except in the minds of the evil New World Order/Illuminati tyrants
Invisible villain and the fallacy of argumentum ad metum. In other words, the site author is doing what he accuses his invisible villains of: inciting fear.
whose goal is to rapidly decrease the population of America and the world (population extermination), unless they can DECEIVE YOU into believing their LIES and taking their DANGEROUS vaccine – that will suddenly appear.
Nice concept. Where's the beef?
3. The figures being reported for “Swine Flu” are outright LIES. They will say in the headlines, “60 people die from Swine Flu” but when you read the text of the article, you will see it is NOT 60. In fact, only 12 have been “documented” and they don’t even say HOW they were “documented.”
In my province, there have been 8 deaths, all well documented and publicized. One case was drug-resistant, which indicates that the virus is evolving and could become more lethal due to inability to treat it.
This province has 3.6 million people. The USA has 304 million, or 100 times what we have. If there have ONLY been 60 deaths, they've been doing well. Seasonal flu alone is implicated in the deaths of 36000 Americans per year, and this is a disease the public largely ignores!
4. The various media groups (TV, newspapers, movies, magazines) are controlled by the same group that is in charge of this “Swine Flu” Psy/Op. They are partners to the LIES.
Unsubstantiated claim. Bulleted and numbered as if a fact you're not supposed to question. So, those of you saying "look into it", "educate yourselves", "get the facts", have YOU looked into the "facts"? I'm not seeing proof, just fear-mongering.
5. The pharmaceutical companies, that will reap huge monetary benefits from this hoax, are part of the same cabal
Same conspiracy theory - no proof, just a claim you're supposed to accept.
Pharmaceutical companies profit from treatment which WORKS as much as they would a hoax. In fact, they LOSE income if their would-be patients die! So why would they be involved in deliberately killing large numbers of people with a single injection, when they can SAVE people for the same price, AND turn around and sell them 20 more medications over the next year?
Baxter International, the corrupt pharmaceutical company that was recently caught red-handed sending vaccines contaminated with Bird Flu to 18 countries, has apparently been “chosen” to make a vaccine for “Swine Flu.”
Another unsubstantiated claim. In addition, every industry experiences human errors. An important question to ask would be: If this actually happened, did the company CONCEAL it, or did they issue a public recall and apology? It's doubtful they would be selected to provide such vaccines if they had tried to cover up or deliberately distribute contaminated medications. If even their quality control systems were found to be flawed during investigation, those systems would have to be fixed before they would be allowed to do ANY business. Food and drug producers are subject to quite stringent regulations and instant closures if they fail to meet standards. Having worked in industrial health and safety as well as food quality assurance, I do get to see these systems in action.
6. This “Swine flu” virus is undoubtedly another man-made virus – a hybrid of part “swine flu”, part human flu and part bird flu. Something like that can ONLY come from a laboratory!
Um...no. Something like that is a normal part of flu evolution, a fact which has been known for a very long time. Suggesting or believing this quackery requires complete ignorance of genetics, viral behavior in general, and flu behavior in particular.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, non sequitur. Three for the price of one, quite a "deal".
WHY are they doing this? [sic]
Another appeal to the invisible scapegoat required in any magical conspiracy.
1. Control of the population: terror, giving up one’s rights, quarantine
Don't see it happening - except for this author attempting to create "terror" himself.
2. Further destruction of the economy by the enormous fraudulent “costs” that will be claimed to “control” the epidemic.
Because somehow, businesses PROFIT from recession. Gotcha.
Also another post hoc fallacy. Effective preventive medicine results in minimal disease or death. The conspiracy theorist of course claims that there never was a threat. That means, to prove their point, no medical treatments should be provided in the United States for the next year. Then we can do a proper scientific study of the illness and death rates one year to the next. The theorist will, of course, claim that this was the plan all along. Goddidit - every result has a convenient conspiracy behind it, no logic or evidence required.
3. Huge profits for the pharmaceutical companies for anti-viral treatments – and potential sale of “swine flu” vaccines (supposedly not yet available).
They get these anyway. Researching and preparing JUST for seasonal flus is already a full-time job. It's ironic that the same people who advocate for complete "freedom" to profit are so quick to accuse those who DO profit!
4. Mandatory vaccinations for “swine flu” which the New World Order/Illuminati hopes will kill MILLIONS of Americans and others around the globe.
And 30 years later, I still have my smallpox vaccination scar, and memories of many other vaccinations. TB tests, polio vaccinations, tetanus vaccinations. Oddly, I'm not dead. Of the hundreds of people I know, virtually all have had many injections, yet I can think of very few have died of ANY cause. My grandparents have all had vaccinations, and all lived into their 80's and 90's. One lives on, and is still licensed to drive! So just how incompetant IS this conspiracy? They could have achieved their goal in any given month of the last 30 years, and it wouldn't have been in the news until it was too late.
In addition, all "mandatory" vaccinations I have seen have been voluntary. For some health care professionals, it may be a condition of employment, but who benefits by selectively killing THEM? After all, it is ALSO those very people who give the injections and do much of the baseline research to produce effective medications!
These mandatory vaccines will be purposely contaminated with TERRIBLE diseases that are specifically designed to KILL you.
Naked claim. See previous statements. Where are these diseases? Natural seasonal flu is one of the worst killers around, and I can't think of anyone I know who has ever died from it. If these injections are so terrible, WHERE'S THE PROOF?
5. NO vaccination is effective. And EVERY vaccination is UNSAFE. Vaccinations for routine diseases cause horrific damage – and often lead to the death of the vaccinated individual.
Same claim, same proof - none. I'm still here. Can't think of anyone who has died recently, and yet we have had MANY vaccinations. I also haven't caught smallpox, nor has anyone in the world in the last 30 years, except for one or two people who were exposed to laboratory samples of the virus. The author is right. Polio vaccinations don't work. Smallpox vaccinations don't work. Tetanus vaccinations don't work. Flu vaccinations don't work.
Do ANY of you, dear readers, recall the last time someone you knew caught polio, smallpox, or tetanus? Probably not - and I would bet that most of the people you know have been vaccinated against ALL of these [excepting smallpox for those born after the eradication program].
Do any of you recall the last time someone you knew caught flu? Probably. What do you bet they were NOT vaccinated?
We don't get smallpox, polio, or tetanus because most people are vaccinated against these. We DO get flu because it evolves rapidly and because few people get vaccinated. Obviously, vaccination doesn't work!
6. The “swine flu” vaccine will undoubtedly have even MORE deadly substances added to do its job of killing off millions of people
Undoubtedly. Why? What substances? What proof?
Note that I have barely SCRATCHED this particular web page, and it's full to the brim with fallacy, ignorance, fear-mongering, and unsupported claims.
The third site is no better, but is simply an opinion piece written by a high school student, and containing ZERO evidence!
Who is seriously stupid enough to consider this stuff "informative"? I think the only thalidomide or mercury was in their parents' breakfast cereal, probably by choice. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 6:18:17 PM | I rarely quote Fox "news", but this has been carried far and wide and some here will only give credence if the news if covered by their intravenous trusted, fair and balanced newsy sourcy. The Hong Kong survey is similar to the GB survey of health care workers.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542950,00.html
The idea that so many professionals in the health care industry are skeptical about the safety of this rushed, experimental version of vaccination should cause pause.
A couple of friends of mine in the industry informed me today, that while the H1N1 vaccine is still "optional", they will be fired should they get the swine flu without the "optional" jab. Catch 22 Swine Flu. Hardly optional. When it gets to the point of mandatory compliance to the panic du jour, there seems to be something amiss, something more that we should be informed about.
Another friend just won over a state virtual mandate to innoculate the 2 year old in her custody, a child with an already compromised immune system and TBI from shaken baby syndrome (by others). The state finally admitted that they could not mandate. People should be allowed a choice based on the information available. To bully folks with differing opinions plays into all sorts of future mandates without sound science, merit, and proof of long term safety. She has been a nurse for over 30 years.
People always pick and chose the sources they need to support pre-existing opinions. That is a given. There is a difference however, when something radically pushed and unproven is mandated. We've seen thousands of formerly "safe" stupid human compounds come back to bite us in the collective behind. From Agent Orange to GWS, I personally must take exception to some of these stupid human tricks. While we have had some successes playing in Pandora's Box, we remain pretty clueless on the long term consequences of playing gods and video games with the human immune system and our odds of beating the superior evolutionary characteristics of our tiny, microscopic predators. No other creature on the planet relies on temporary quick fixes, and most have been around much longer than we will ever be at current rates of declining human intelligence. The bullying and ostracizing of those who do not trust the status quo in the latest manufactured panic is illustrative of this trend.
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country . . . we're dominated by the relatively small number of persons . . . it is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world. Edward Bernays - Propaganda, Liveright Publishing Company, New York, 2005, excerpts from pp. 9-19
"Scientific societies are as yet in their infancy. . . . It is to be expected that advances in physiology and psychology will give governments much more control over individual mentality than they now have even in totalitarian countries. Fitche laid it down that education should aim at destroying free will, so that, after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable, throughout the rest of their lives, of thinking or acting otherwise than as their schoolmasters would have wished. . . ": Bertrand Russell, "The Impact of Science on Society", 1953, pg 49-50
...Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience. In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World". --From a letter to George Orwell, dated 21 October 1949. From Letters of Aldous Huxley, ed. Grover Smith; Harper & Row, 1969. | |
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| New Swine Flu vaccine is dangerous business
Posted: 9/27/2009 7:48:30 PM | Earthpuppy
I can understand part of your point of view. I would not want to live in a society where we are forced to do something that could potentially represent a threat to the individual for the good of the whole. And the dilemma health care workers face over whether to take a vaccination is not enviable either.
However, do you not see the damage that fear has on our society? People look at facts like the one you cited, that health-care workers want to retain the choice to be inoculated. It becomes morphed into a government conspiracy to inoculate us with poison. Honestly, politicians for the most part are driven by what will get them re-elected and, call me crazy, but I don't think poisoning the general populace will win any party a majority of votes.
Looking beyond my distaste for government, I look to history when evaluating current events. So, in terms of vaccinations, researchers may have made a few mistakes along the way, but they have also provided us with the means to live longer and more healthy lives, free of many of the fatal or crippling illnesses that affected our relatives just one generation ago. And, the government has given us access to that medical system.
In regard to the current swine flu situation, the general population is far more informed about the issues than any generation before it. We know what the fatality rate of the outbreak was in the spring, we know that the virus might mutate, but it is more likely that it will not, we know what age groups will be hardest hit, and we know that the vaccine was manufactured more quickly than normal, but that researchers are releasing information on it as soon as it becomes available. This openess of the debate from all sides is the opposite of a conspiracy...the media and the government are giving us information to allow us to make the choice that's right for us.
Using the scientific method does not guarantee that errors will not be made, but not using the scientific method guarantees that decisions will be made without evidence or logic and I would be very fearful to live in a world where that was the case. | |
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