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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 2:17:08 PM | Capitalism is a term coined by Karl Marx. i prefer free market. Socialism and it's daddy communism do not work because they leave out the facts of the human condition.
The free market unfettered by government intrusion (which no one alive has ever seen) really does help the most people.
There will always be the poor, even under both socialism and communism. Because you cannot make everyone equally rich, only equally poor. Both socialism and communism interferes with the workings of the only wealth maker, private interprize. No government creates wealth. Government only takes from the productive and gives to the unproductive. When the productive is punished for being productive they quit being productive. When the unproductive is rewarded for being unproductive they stay unproductive. Common sence will tell you that this is not sustainable.
Besides only in the free market can there truley be liberty and freedom. Who ever holds the purse strings controls. So socialism is truly a system of civil slavery. That is what is wrong with socialism.
We who are def3nders of the free market are not battling for greed (which thrives by the way, very well in socialism and communism) but for liberty and freedom. We truley are trying to perserve what The US is truley all about. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 3:23:19 PM |
Americans aren't necessarily "anti-socialist;" they've just been conditioned to accept simple definitions and look for bogeymen, rather than doing their due diligence on any given subject...why else would so many Americans just blindly accept the right-wing spin that there are going to be "death panels?"
Well-said.
It must simply be easier to accept what one hears, rather than do a bit of searching for the other side of an issue.
More fun to live scared, maybe?
Reading about the Red Scare in America during the 50s makes it clear that we do seem to be a bit of a gullible people. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 3:33:32 PM | | The current flap is not so much about socialism as it is about racism and classism. Some are not inclined to share the same they benefits they enjoy with others, especially if that effort is directed by one of a different race and many of those who stand to benefit are of a different race or class. We are seeing a knee jerk reaction by selfish, uncaring people. Some of them are quite hateful, many are reacting emotionally. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:07:21 PM |
From my lofty moral perch...
Your opening words probably do more to identify the problem with socialism in the U.S. than anything else. People who support it generally take their position on their "lofty moral perch" without having any actual moral authority to do so.
They talk about things being "fair" and, of course, choose to define "fair" to mean whatever they want it to mean. Who cares if it isn't "fair" to others? They also tend to speak about large social programs and how these will help so many people but when it comes down to the fine print, they want someone else to pay for it.
The annual cost for healthcare in the U.S. is currently running just over $6,000 per person. Is EVERYONE is the U.S. willing to pay an additional $6,000/year per family member in taxes for socialized coverage? That would make things pretty simple wouldn't it? Eliminate all the middle-men and create one huge, single-payer system that everyone would use - no exceptions. THAT would be socialized medicine. Everyone would pay the same amount into the system and everyone would get the same treatment from the system.
But NO ONE advocates for that. Why not? That's easy enough to answer. People want all of the positive benefits of any program. They aren't willing to suck up the negatives. The negatives in this case are paying for the system and as soon as that is brought up those in favor of such a system start looking for someone else to stick with paying while they enjoy the benefits. - all of course, in the name of being "fair". | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:24:52 PM | Right on message #53! Well said and I concur!
Some are not inclined to share the same they benefits they enjoy with others
Um, why should I be required to share what I've worked hard to have with anyone who is not willing or able to do the same? I am not looking for anyone to provide for me, I was raised to do so for myself and thus far am quite happy with it. If I want to share my wealth I will do so, however I am adamently against a REQUIREMENT that "the rich" to share their wealth with "the poor". Plenty of poor people make their way to wealth via the free market, ingenuity, HARD WORK, sacrafice and plain old going without. Just look at the new immigrants (many colors, many classes) They couldn't be happier to work for THEMSELVES and actually benefit from their labor. Your Sotomayor is a prime example.
We are seeing a knee jerk reaction by selfish, uncaring people. Some of them are quite hateful, many are reacting emotionally.
I think the knee jerk reaction is coming from those who "have not" who are determined to destroy the pursuit of freedom and liberty so that they can feel better about there own lack of personal growth, creativity and achievement. Those that build themselves up by the effort of their own hand are more than happy to then put that hand out and help the "less fortunate" eager to change their lot in life! It's when one gets one's hand bitten off at the shoulder that one re-examines one's willingness to help out those "less fortunate".
That is what America is about. Doing for oneself and then, by the grace of God, helping those willing to take steps to help themselves.
As for health care, I believe that if we took health insurance off the table at the workplace and made it a product only available on an individual basis, perhaps the cost would be driven down, down, down since most of us could not afford $450 (?) a month to have it. I do not have health insurance and even when I do, I do not go to doctors. I use the dental and eye programs, but I do not go to doctors. I choose to educate myself about what is healthy for my mind, body and spirit. The health care industry does not give a rat's behind about making you well. No profit in healthy people. If you really want to make America healthy, shut down every fast food restaurant corp and every publicly traded food manufacturer in the country because as long as they choose $$$$ over all else, your health will be the last item on the agenda. Educate yourself while the library is still open and free. It's YOUR life and your life is YOUR responsibility! | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 5:26:53 PM | | Much of the anti-socialist propaganda comes from vestigial cold war fears. Some of it also comes from a misguided understanding of personal responsibility, and so words like "entitlements" get thrown around loosely. I have friends, very intelligent friends, who are impossible to have a conversation with on this topic. Anything that involves redistributing money is responded to with a crucifix, even when it's done for the purposes of keeping demand afloat and not letting the rest of the economy go down the toilet. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:29:33 PM |
I don't think that's right. That's what Wesley Snipes got 3 years for not doing.
Well, I know that to you and most other folks that doesn't sound right; but the fact remains...
Passenger 57 got hosed...
See if you can get a hold of a copy of Aaron Russo's "Freedom to Fascism"...
It's a bit more insightful and informative than the shit Michael Moore cranks out... | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/17/2009 10:25:16 PM |
We are seeing a knee jerk reaction by selfish, uncaring people. Some of them are quite hateful, many are reacting emotionally.
This can easily describe those who are inconsiderate enough to waste their time on nonsense while the so-called "haves" are busy working their butts off. Selfish, because they don't consider what effect their time-wasting has on those around them. Uncaring because they don't place value on other peoples' efforts - since they often don't see the value of making more than a nominal effort themselves. They project their impressions of every person for themselves and "free money"-ism on everyone else, so they see those who have worked as "selfish" or "uncaring".
Hateful because they believe anybody else who won't give them what they whine for doesn't deserve to have it either. Reacting emotionally with knee jerks? Look at some of the rants they post...they believe they are ENTITLED to what they get through the grace of others.
Sure, there are some have-nots who had absolutely no choice in arriving where they are in life. But for the vast majority, like the squirrel squandering daylight, they figured they'd play now and worry about tomorrow later. I've met so many of them over the past 40 years (when I first began noticing them), it's absolutely disgusting.
Fortitude and work ethic are words either long forgotten or never even learned by many out there today. If you dropped them in the middle of nowhere, they'd just curl up and die. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 3:20:28 AM | You say that you do not want our country to become socialized? I made this list to point out that are laws that have been on the books for many, many years from birth to death.
You think that your privacy is threatened? Your life is already and open book from birth to death!!
1)Birth certificates, registered into your state's vital statistics records.
2) Infants must have required immunizations.
3)Child must be registered for school ,public or private (must pay tuition). Parents must show proof of immunizations. I don't know the requirements for home schooled students.
4) Public schools k-12. Socialized?
5) Driver's licenses, vehicle insurance, registration and inspection as required by your state.
6) Social Security card required for employment other than "off the books". Don't forget to file your Federal and State taxes.
7)State run Universities& Colleges (lower tuition and fees than private schools)
8) Marriage licenses and certificates registered into your state's vital statics records.
10) Real Estate. Deeds and mortgages registered into your county and or state system. You must pay your property taxes
11)Daily living... purchase of goods and services means you pay sales tax as required by your local laws.
12)Retirement pensions are regulated by the government in many,not all, cases. Social Security and Medicare are socialized programs. Stock market investments are regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). The jury is still out on the quality of oversight.
13) Death..Burial, entombment, cremation laws. Death certificate filed with your state Department of Vital Statistics.
Hello people , should we cease participating living our daily lives in America ? Seems to me we are already socialized to a great extent.
I am mindful of some who fear" government takeover" of our lives and I respect your opinions. I, for one, have no problem with a public option as a choice, not a mandate, for health insurance. I really do not see where this would lead to a takeover of private insurance companies.
The US post office system is losing business while privately owned UPS and Federal Express are functioning quite well. Seems like the" socialized" Post Office has not taken over these free market enterprises. That is why I do not see public option health care overtaking the "free enterprise" health insurance business. Paying for this is a concern of mine . However, the choice of a public option works for me.
Let's respectfully agree to disagree. OK?  followed by | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 3:38:59 AM | The most insidious lie perpetrated upon the American people is the fear of the " Free Lunch ".
The idea that the government is going to take your money away and give it to somebody who doesn't want to work. That somebody's going to get a free lunch.
You hear this all the time.
The Soviet Union didn't collapse because they paid people not to work.
The Soviet Union collapsed because they couldn't pay people who really did work.
Work became worthless.
We are now and have been experiencing the same thing in this country for the last 40 years. The harder we work, the less that work is worth. Little by little, with each passing year our labor is worth less and less.
There are many reasons for this which I wont go into here.
There is however, an overriding erosion of the sense of community and belonging in the American consciousness. We have been led to the idea that we are no longer Americans and are now all competitors against each other.
We have adopted the thinking of " I'm getting mine and to Hell with everyone else ".
This attitude will destroy our country as surly as any war could ever do.
We Americans must figure out that we are not competitors and we must all be partners.
When your neighbor goes broke and loses his house, the value of his house goes down.
Then the value of your house goes down too.
When your neighbor fails, you share in that failure.
When your neighbor succeeds, you share in his success too.
The more people who fail, the more we will all fail.
The more people who succeed, the more success we will all have.
Success, property, and money must not be allowed to become the exclusive right of a privileged few. We cannot afford to prop up a few people and cut the legs out from under others. We must do things which encourage success for everybody. This doesn't mean giving anyone a free lunch.
America is our country, our home, and we all live here. Like any family, we must all contribute or we will all fail, rich and poor alike. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:26:25 AM | Some are not inclined to share the same they benefits they enjoy with others
We are seeing a knee jerk reaction by selfish, uncaring people. Some of them are quite hateful, many are reacting emotionally.
well ain't THAT the typical socialist whine, lol. yep, socialists everywhere always presume that they should be able to take by compunction and force stuff from that person and give it to this one in the name of self-assumed moral superiority and, of course, "for the greater good". yes people, whatever is not obligatory is forbidden. groupthink. this is what it all boils down to. and it doesn't take a socialist very long at all to start looking down their long noses at people who dare to disagree and shaming them with the good old "selfish and uncaring" routine while preaching the gospel of their next wealth redistribution scheme. bullshit. what a bunch of sniveling self-righteous hyenas…. mealy mouthed, double-talking hypocrites and duplicitous liars who just want me to share. waaaah! now go ahead and point at what i just said and call it "hate". go ahead!! and then sit there bask in the glow of your self-satisfied smirk while you insist on a world that operates with maximum control and minimum freedom for everyone…. i.e., the dumbest common denominator. here's a clue: americans are so anti socialist because there are still enough of us around to remember that socialism doesn't work. unless you're amish. so go start a commune.
meanwhile, remember that it’s your vaunted social engineering policies that inevitably lead to situations where the privileged few have exclusive rights and everybody else can pick through the rags of life while paying tribute to philosopher kings. excuse me while I trot out another hackneyed phrase, those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. and those of us who still value freedom and all the blood, sweat & tears that it takes to preserve it will get on with our lives while finding more workable solutions to helping others and contributing to society. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:41:12 AM | Arent nearly all western nations as free as America is?
And have a healthcare system.
So why all that freedom stuff all the time?
lol funny how the right wingers make it sound like the ussr, talk about paranoid.
Bringing America back to the centre would be a good thing. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:57:44 AM |
Arent nearly all western nations as free as America is?
And have a healthcare system.
Why, yes... yes they are... and yes they do.
So why all that freedom stuff all the time?
Perhaps because so many, of a conservative bent, are still "stuck at 16".
That's why you keep seeing so many of the "you're not the boss of me" arguments and the little name-calling temper tantrums (see below).
well ain't THAT the typical socialist whine, lol. yep, socialists everywhere always presume that they should be able to take by compunction and force stuff from that person and give it to this one in the name of self-assumed moral superiority and, of course, "for the greater good". yes people, whatever is not obligatory is forbidden. groupthink. this is what it all boils down to. and it doesn't take a socialist very long at all to start looking down their long noses at people who dare to disagree and shaming them with the good old "selfish and uncaring" routine while preaching the gospel of their next wealth redistribution scheme. bullshit. what a bunch of sniveling self-righteous hyenas…. mealy mouthed, double-talking hypocrites and duplicitous liars who just want me to share. waaaah! now go ahead and point at what i just said and call it "hate". go ahead!! and then sit there bask in the glow of your self-satisfied smirk while you insist on a world that operates with maximum control and minimum freedom for everyone…. i.e., the dumbest common denominator. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:09:04 AM | .
................Groupthink ? ... Mega Ditto................Dam Socialist....
Freedom??............... like buying your health insurance form the Company store???? | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:10:12 AM | You what I find really amusing, laughing at myself here, not really all that bothered by what the US does with its social and economic policies.
But I'm a democratic socialist myself. Yep I want democracy, a representative administration like a senate or a parliament and a centralised economic policy of governed wealth distribution and services subsidy, with goods privatisation. A simplistic idealism. Commonwealth parliamentarianism isn't too far from what I think is good, swedish parliamentarianism sounds possibly best, the Finns seem to have good things going on, etc.
But I'm dead against collectivisation or fascism in any form (even authoritarian parliamentarianism which I think is the biggest argument against Commonwealth systems, for its fascist overtones), as much against it as conservative capitalism, which is funding arms purchasing in third world countries as a form of aid and fun stuff like that.
So I join Socialist International and check out the world marketplace of socialist democracy and what do I find? Bloody right wing Labour Parties and collectivist extremists one end to the other. These people are damn morons who can't string a coherent piece of research about anything together, their political arguments sound like school children trying to scam their way into the candy store so they can rob it blind, damn sure not a step up.
So I guess we're f*cked. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:29:44 AM | meanwhile, remember that it’s your vaunted social engineering policies that inevitably lead to situations where the privileged few have exclusive rights and everybody else can pick through the rags of life while paying tribute to philosopher kings. excuse me while I trot out another hackneyed phrase, those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. and those of us who still value freedom and all the blood, sweat & tears that it takes to preserve it will get on with our lives while finding more workable solutions to helping others and contributing to society.
Forceful summary statement! I only take exception with one word, "yours" ~ for it is not only mine but "yours" as well. While I too hold great disdain for social engineering, it not exclusive to one party or person but been a long on-going process that started long ago. When much as today, a select few were stepping on our necks, as savings and discretionary spending dried up for the middle classes.
So maybe this"UHC" as proposed is not the best answer but it is oh so very clear something has to be done. ~ We cannot continue down this present path of waste , fraud and rising cost while the value of labor takes a steady nose dive. Where cost of living increases are offered only to government and the upper 40% of wages earner in this country. As illegal immigration continues unaddressed , saved for a 12 high fence made of "weathering steel" spanning from Mexico to Canada.
It's a matter of money and the cost of providing for one's family. ~ In order for anything to work very long or well ~ both sides needs a win. ~ For the last 30 years we've been playing a lopsided game, They win , we loose. ~ People with insurance, thinking that they had health care coverage yet still going in debt , 50, 75 , 150 thousand dollars. The cost of fuel with all the middlemen has us by the throat and we seem to have little control. American's left to absorb increases yet can't pass them along being the end consumer.
Redundant test, redundant procedures, redundant billing, deferred , referred, ~ we presently are leaning heavily on Emergency Room care. That's the front line of care in America today, and America has the best in the world.
But I don't know how long this can continue, do you? This is truly" reactive care"
We need a system that is proactive and available to cut our cost in human suffering and dollars.
How this gets done ~ is what we address today.
Huge project require a collective effort. ~ Your car would be pretty much worthless without roads ~ Free enterprise afforded you the car ~ the collective afforded you the roads you drive, permitting you feel so independent and free!
while preaching the gospel of their next wealth redistribution scheme. bullshit. what a bunch of sniveling self-righteous hyenas… I really enjoyed this sentence. ~ The wealth of the nation will be distriburted, one way or another. ~ That 75% of Americans find themselves in a losing game with zero savings, discretionary spending down more then anytime in 30 years and want a new dealer, they are bunch of sniveling self-righteous hyenas? ~ I assure you, ~ when Insurance companies and business like GM or AIG find themselves on the negative end of the ledger we heard of their concerns, do we not? In fact they ask us for some help and it don't take them 30 years to do the dying c o c k roach dance for us but more like 3 months.
So what is wrong with 60 % of working American asking for some help as they find things pretty damn near impossible to deal with?
and those of us who still value freedom and all the blood, sweat & tears that it takes to preserve it will get on with our lives while finding more workable solutions to helping others and contributing to society. My favorite sentence, ~ just love it!
We do fight for freedom this day, ~ we looking to get out of a losing game and address needs and concerns that affect not only us but future American. ~ It's not just about us!
We wish to throw the money changers out of the halls of government, it's an ambitious project and might well take 30 years to complete.
Won't you help?
Dance
This allows you to quote a previous post. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 10:05:47 AM | Most americans reject the idea of socialist policies due to conditioning from the cold war. The truth is that a free market is no more secure than socialism. Every economic platform has its strong points and its weak points, but Americans are not well versed in the horrors that capitalism can bring to the populace because of government intervention and regulation.
The free market thrived best in the quasi-decentralized period of colonial independence. The overall market was small and confined to their respective states for the most part. Those groups competing on a larger scale often did little competition with the more local businesses. Agriculture and transportation were the key areas where a free market truly thrived in this point, as there were very few legitimate businesses. Most of those participating supplied their own private merchandise, they were making money off the sweat of their own brows.
Free market concepts started to bare their horrid teeth during the industrial revolution. The larger and more industrious a market becomes, the more oppressive the free market becomes. There was a period during the industrial period of the US that the government maintained a hands off approach to the market, and it was during this time that the "average joe" would be exploited to the fullest. To put it bluntly, the free market was enslaving the populace. Men would work in excess of 12 hours a day without rest in horrible conditions, and any mistakes they made were met with hours or even days worth of wages forfeited. Women would work just as hard, if not harder than the men, for significantly less pay. In addition to docked wages, women were beaten with cowhide or clubs as punishment for mistakes or tardiness, sometimes to a mortal degree. Many children were orphaned due to unsafe working conditions, and those rounded up would eventually end up in a work house where they would be "adopted" by a factory. Children were useful because of their size, they would reach into moving machinery to retrieve objects, a job that left many children mangled or limbless.
It wasn't until the government intervened that this stagnant period ended. The institution of a forty hour work week, protection of wages earned, a minimum wage standard, minimum standards for working conditions, and child labor laws were installed by the government for good reason. The free market was making slaves out of the population, and government regulation was needed to emancipate them. This wasn't out of the goodness of the governments heart, but because the unions, the very people that were being victimized by the market, pushed hard enough to gain them. This helped end the meat grinder mentality of the industry driven free market and forced business to focus on efficiency instead of mass labor at the cheapest rate possible.
The truth is, no single economic system is better than the other. On a small enough scale all of them can function in the manner that they are supposed to, but as they grow the flaws in them widen and become a door for extensive abuse. Currently, the only way that has seemed to be a treatment for this problem is to hybrid various economic systems together so that the strengths of others will close the gaps that would appear in a pure system. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 10:57:04 AM | ^^^^
How about putting some actual dates or at least years on that so the younger amongst us who have no clue can know where each period actually occurred?
You allege that no economic system is better than another, but it's a fact that a number of systems are far worse than others for the purposes of this country. You cannot only take the choice parts of a system and cobble them together to expect a far superior system. You may as well take parts of different animals and sew them together to come up with a "superior animal"...It sounds good, but the implementation is universally disastrous.
Social security sounded good (to the old and sick) back in FDR's day, yet many fought it, seeing catastrophe in the future. 70 years later, that catastrophe is fast-approaching and the system FDR set up as well as others that were designed to mesh with it, threaten the bring down the economy from overload, unless even more measures like it are instituted. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 12:33:01 PM | The "decentralized" period extended for a long period of time. It was strongest during the early colonization periods (where survival took precedence over monetary stability) and eeking out a living was more important than becoming the rich super mogul of the town. During these periods gentlemen, men who literally did no work, were nothing but a burden. John Smith, the resident American colonial hero, essentially forced a communist state in Jamestown. To put it bluntly, he said "if you want to eat, you are going to work". Each colony operated independent of the crown via their charters and each other in accordance with local conditions. Goods produced were the monetary standard, which gave rise to concepts such as "being able to buy a wife for a pound of tobacco". This period of regional independence from each other continued until around 1819, when the federal government successfully justified the implementation of a central bank. This united the states under a single monetary unit and created a period of financial intermingling between states.
The industrial revolution that took place in the late 18th and early 19th century is what gave root to the horrid period of working conditions in the US that I described above. Ford, the pioneer of the assembly line, was one of the few industrialists who believed in a regulated work week to allow leisure time for workers. His concept was almost universally rejected by others in favor of maximum production time. Child labor was a serious, yet untouched issue. It doesn't take strength to operate a machine, you can pay a child less than an adult, and as I mentioned before they can squeeze into smaller and more dangerous spaces than adults. Abuse led to the implementation of the "factory acts" in England in the early and mid 1800's that severely regulated child labor. You know those factories in 3rd world countries that americans find so disgusting due to poor conditions and excessive child labor? That was happening in every nation that was going through urbanization and industrial reform. States that passed laws regulating child labor were circumvented by industries that would load their children onto trains and move them out to a state where they could continue working. It wasn't until 1938 when the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed by FDR that the government finally stepped in and said "Enough of this crap, we are setting some rules".
This didn't just apply to the workers, but to the products they produced as well (Read: The Jungle). If you found out today that the meat packing industry willingly served meat with rats, bleach, and the occasional human that fell into the grinder to the public you would go insane. These things were not only common, but were unregulated up until the turn of the 1900's.
It is fact that no economic system is flawless, you cannot dispute this as history has proven it. Further more, your analogy of stitching an animal together doesn't even come close to applying. There are numerous federally regulated and controlled monopolies that exist in the US today and are not only successful but also efficient because of federal regulation (power and communication). If the government continued its hands off approach to everything, telephone companies could claim dominion over their lines. Any competing telephone company would have to raise their own posts and line network to facilitate communications, which would result in a wasteful mess covering the city. The same can be argued for energy providers, who are regulated but still allowed to operate as a private entity due to the wasteful nature that competing locally would cause. Saying that the US would crumble because of installing socialized programs is false, as socialization is what maintains several critical functions on both the federal and state level. Those roads you use to get around town are handled in a socialized fashion while still maintaining the private sector.
You CAN have a socialized healthcare system while maintaining a private ownership of hospitals and practices. You CAN socialize transportation and have private contractors compete for contracts. Saying that capitalism is the absolute answer is paramount to saying space monkeys will descend and carry us to the marshmallow kingdom. Centralizing operations for large scale operations may seem daunting because you are handing over the keys to a single entity, but it also reduces disorganization and waste generated by having twenty other entities clambering for control and profit. It also improves the transparency of the operation, as you only have to focus in a single area to see how resources are being utilized.
Believe it or not, the Social Security programs that people are so afraid of are not as horribly failing as Bush portrayed them to be. Paul Krugman, an economist and Nobel Prize recipient, already displayed the numbers and projected expenses. This quote rationally sums up the Social Security scare...
"There is a long-run financing problem. But it's a problem of modest size. The [CBO] report finds that extending the life of the trust fund into the 22nd century, with no change in benefits, would require additional revenues equal to only 0.54 percent of G.D.P. That's less than 3 percent of federal spending — less than we're currently spending in Iraq. And it's only about one-quarter of the revenue lost each year because of President Bush's tax cuts — roughly equal to the fraction of those cuts that goes to people with incomes over $500,000 a year. Given these numbers, it's not at all hard to come up with fiscal packages that would secure the retirement program, with no major changes, for generations to come." | |
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ceoil
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Joined: 6/12/2009
Msg: 70 | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:25:42 PM |
all that i know is that i much rather depend on myself then any goverment!!!
Did you go to public school in America?
Have you driven on a highway recently?
Ever have need of the fire department?
Ever have to call the police for help?
Know anyone on Medicaid?
If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then you need to know that they are all paid for by the government upon which you depend. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 3:35:17 PM | | Socialism?, Capitalism?, blah, blah, blah. Just a bunch of beuracratic nonsense if you ask me. The reality is that EVERYONE that I know, and have EVER talked to about national health care, is all for it. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:58:55 PM | I wonder how many other industrialized countries don't have socialized health care for it's citizenry??
Hmmmm..................... | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:25:05 PM |
Did you go to public school in America?
Have you driven on a highway recently?
Ever have need of the fire department?
Ever have to call the police for help?
Know anyone on Medicaid?
If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then you need to know that they are all paid for by the government upon which you depend.
...Then this poster needs to know that they are all paid for by the taxpayers, in which the government depends on (hello )
So we're all depending on ourselves, the taxpayers (the working class, excluding the deadbeats), because without us, who's going to pay for all this pork? | |
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