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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:33:41 PM | | Don't you guys have to wait months to see your doctors? In our country, even booked doctors can see us within a month usually. I don't think it's socialism we're afraid of. It's waiting six months to see a specialist, that scares us. Oh, and our elderly do have some sort of healthcare here. Medicaid has its problems, but its better then nothing. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:51:05 PM |
Don't you guys have to wait months to see your doctors? In our country, even booked doctors can see us within a month usually. I don't think it's socialism we're afraid of. It's waiting six months to see a specialist, that scares us. Oh, and our elderly do have some sort of healthcare here. Medicaid has its problems, but its better then nothing.
From what I understand, Canada's difficulty in expedient care doesn't stim from a lack of funding, but from a serious shortage of medical practitioners. This could be a problem under any system.
I could be wrong and if someone indigenous to Canada could correct me I would appreciate it. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:52:52 PM |
Americans aren't necessarily "anti-socialist;" they've just been conditioned to accept simple definitions and look for bogeymen, rather than doing their due diligence on any given subject...why else would so many Americans just blindly accept the right-wing spin that there are going to be "death panels?" This is the United States of America, for cryin' out loud! Honestly, if enough scare-mongers told enough of us that "red roses" actually meant a smoking pile of excrement-over and over, loudly and frighteningly- the rest of the world would start wondering why Americans hate pretty, sweet-smelling flowers so much...
...Bravo Steveo! You would make Pelosi, Reid proud. Keep up the good work on criticizing Americans' intelligence...it shouldn't take an Einstein to figure out why we have a Opposition. "Due Diligence"? -People have read the Healthcare Bill, are attending these townhall meetings (along with the Rent-a-Acorn), and are demanding answers. I doubt Obama has read it yet and he's trying to push this through.
Scare mongers?: who's using Global Warming tactics thus we need to be "green" or we're doomed? who's using the Stimulus Package, because the economy would be a lot worse if we didn't bail them out (even though the aftermath we had bankruptcies/failures/record unemployment)?
WTF. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:54:19 PM |
Don't you guys have to wait months to see your doctors? In our country, even booked doctors can see us within a month usually. I don't think it's socialism we're afraid of. It's waiting six months to see a specialist, that scares us. Oh, and our elderly do have some sort of healthcare here. Medicaid has its problems, but its better then nothing.
I've never had to wait to see a specialist ... the only wait time I've had longer than 2 weeks was for an ENT appointment and it was something on my end. The longest I've waited for a test was 3 weeks and it was a brain scan. Even when I had elective surgery, I was given a date but ended up getting in a week early because of a cancellation. I honestly have never heard of the wait times being as bad as people claim it is. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 5:23:31 AM |
Don't you guys have to wait months to see your doctors? In our country, even booked doctors can see us within a month usually. I don't think it's socialism we're afraid of. It's waiting six months to see a specialist, that scares us.
It's my personal experience that this time to see a doctor can vary a lot! ~ The quality of treatment can vary a lot as well. ~ It depends on where you live, where you are is a system or not and the quality of that system. Where you have a history with your provider or not.
By strange events I have recently had both a retired mother of 79 and a employed brother of 58 come down with a similar foot injury. ~ Both crippling around on crutches with foot that offers them great pain with a torn ligament. ~ Mother was reaching , standing on her toes and brother had a ladder slip and he fell to the ground ~ both happening 3 days apart .
Mother is being administered too, MRI's walking cast and plans surgery for next week.
Brother had been to the doctor 3 times , no cast, no MRI. ~ no medication.
when he's up on it for 4 hours , tending to doctor visits ~ he' s in bed with great pain two days following getting over the trip, with a foot twice it's normal sixe.
This is on going as I speak. ~
So it all depends, it's not consistent.
Dance | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 8:23:59 AM | The medical leader in Canada has already stated that national health care up there is imploding. It is unsustainable.
Americans don't want socialism because we know that if you pay people not to work, most will not work. And if you take away the fruits of someone else's labor, and give it to someone else, that person will work less.
Finally, if you outlaw luxuries, what reason will some people have to work harder? | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 10:07:09 AM |
The medical leader in Canada has already stated that national health care up there is imploding.
If you're referring to the head of the C.M.A., she is not a "medical leader"...just the head of the doctors association.
The president of the CMA is a one year term based on a rotational, provincial basis. Last year it was B.C.'s turn. Dr. Brian Day "won" with about 10% of B.C.'s doctors votes....not exactly an endorsement. He also happens to own a highly successful for profit clinic in Vancouver. The previous year it was Dr. Ouellet...who owns or manages 5 private, for-profit diagnostic clinics. They have a personal agenda....$$$. A two-tiered system. About 80% of Canadians disagree.
Medicare is socialism...do you advocate getting rid of it? Insurance companies won't cover the elderly....there's no profit in that! They profit on the healthy ones.
People protesting get a wake up call....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVwrCzRUX0
....like deer caught in the headlights... | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:43:09 AM | I really don't understand the appeal of capitalism. How can any good come from a system who is entirely motivated by greed?! You can't even say that it's a good motivator for innovation. Innovation comes from passion and creativity, from people doing something they love or feel very strongly about. If anything, capitalism kills more innovation than creates. Why provide funding into a beneficial project that might not have a profit in it? Why try something new when being different is just a financial risk?
And as far as health care goes, who do you trust more? A regulated institution created for the people, by the people, or an unregulated private company who's only goal is profit and bonuses for their CEO's and shareholders. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 12:10:24 PM | Don't you guys have to wait months to see your doctors? In our country, even booked doctors can see us within a month usually. I don't think it's socialism we're afraid of. It's waiting six months to see a specialist, that scares us. Oh, and our elderly do have some sort of healthcare here. Medicaid has its problems, but its better then nothing.
Um no. Here is a typical example of our system. On June 26th my husband went to a clinic complaining of chest pains. He was having a heart attack, he was sent to a regional hospital where he recieed an EKG and an ultrasound on his heart, he needed a quadruple bypass! Within 4 hours he was on the operating table getting his surgery done, he was in intensive care for 2 weeks and on a ward for another 3 days and them sent home for follow up care. This has cost us nothing, when my daughter was born she had a heart condition and was in the special care nursery for the first three weeks of her life. She was seen by more paediatric specialist than I knew existed. Her condition was diagnosed (pulmonary valve was scarred 72% percent closed) she was monitored by a cardiac specialist until she was 15 months old then the decision was mafe to give her angioplasty, she was one of the first babies to have this procedure done, this was back in the 80's. She has since had it done again at 15 years old. She has seen a cardiologist every year for EKG's, ultrasounds and stress tests and will for the rest of her life. Again all of this and we have never seen a bill.
Now both my daughter and husband would most likely never get coverage from a private insurer due to "pre-existing" conditions.
Is our system perfect? No. Do people have to wait for treatment sometimes, yes, usually because it isnt life threatening and our system is geared towards those that need it the worst are seen first. Is that perfect? No, but it is nice to know that generally if you need critical treatment or surgeries you will get it when you need it.
Sorry a bit off topic but this is the type of service you get in a "socialist" country with a universal medical plan. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:09:52 PM | On one side you have people that want to help the majority of other people with a better way of living and health care.
On the other side you have people that want to protect what they have built because if they lose there are billion at stake .
Yap. Socialism is in between capitalism and communism. It's not communism. Some people should go and get an education, especially US people who know very little about history and the world in general. Pure capitalism is an utopia, so is pure communism. Social policies are necessary to have a civil and progressive society. In Europe they know why. Because men are selfish and tend to think of their own good only, because Not everybody can make it and those who can help, should: this is what civil people do.
In my opinion, you are either progressive and accept that government should establish some boundaries ( not take over!!), or your are conservative and want private enterprise to take over ( who is impossible). After this year crises, it should be obvious that the american way does not work. Who stopped the going down ill when it started? Government action.
Now, in answer to the question WHY. It's either because they are ignorant or because they are selfish. Freedom is a ridiculous concept in a society where injustices are present. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 86 | |
| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:22:53 PM |
our system is geared towards those that need it the worst are seen first.
Some fear that the size of their wallet doesn't equate to "me first".
And as far as health care goes, who do you trust more? A regulated institution created for the people, by the people, or an unregulated private company who's only goal is profit and bonuses for their CEO's and shareholders.
This is the result of viewing society through the prism of "markets" as opposed to "society". The current version of "Capitalism" is a dismal failure by any measure other than those in the Oligarchy. A good read on this world view and its failure is "The Collapse of Globalism" by John Ralston Saul. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:28:08 PM | Did you go to public school in America?
Have you driven on a highway recently?
Ever have need of the fire department?
Ever have to call the police for help?
Know anyone on Medicaid?
isnt the public school system failing in this country
arent the highways falling apart
my fire company is volunteers
isnt the medicad system just about broke as in running trillions of dollars defiect? | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:40:50 PM | Neatly avoided answering the questions, didn't you.
No, the public education system is not 'failing'.
We have construction on I-5 happening right now--my tax dollars at work.
You might find that the Federal Government is still involved in your volunteer F.D.
Regardless of the shape its in, Medicaid is socialized.
People need to stop being afraid of words like 'socialism' and deal with the reality of it.
Next time you have to call the police for something, remind yourself that THAT is 'socialism'. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:51:05 PM | No, the public education system is not 'failing'.
We have construction on I-5 happening right now--my tax dollars at work.
You might find that the Federal Government is still involved in your volunteer F.D.
Regardless of the shape its in, Medicaid is socialized
so its not failing? i swear i heard obama say that on the campagin trail, weird
regardless of the shape its in? whos avoiding the facts now, its broke!! so if its broke maybe one could think it doesnt work? again this is not a party thing for me, i hope obama does well, i really mean that, i know its hard for some to think that since i dis agree with the man on somethings, but i do hope he does well. i just look at the goveremnt and dont have much faith, maybe iam wrong, i hope that i am, but i look at cali and mass ( states that try to run healthcare) and i see how bad as in broke they are and worry for the rest of the country, again i hope iam wrong , its just a concern i have, juat my opinion | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:57:10 PM |
so its not failing? i swear i heard obama say that on the campagin trail, weird
regardless of the shape its in? whos avoiding the facts now, its broke!! so if its broke maybe one could think it doesnt work? again this is not a party thing for me, i hope obama does well, i really mean that, i know its hard for some to think that since i dis agree with the man on somethings, but i do hope he does well. i just look at the goveremnt and dont have much faith, maybe iam wrong, i hope that i am, but i look at cali and mass ( states that try to run healthcare) and i see how bad as in broke they are and worry for the rest of the country, again i hope iam wrong , its just a concern i have, juat my opinion
The point of your diatribe was the 'socialism' was bad--right?
I pointed out that we do, in fact, have socialized police forces, Medicaid, fire departments, infrastructure, and public education, to name a few entities.
My ultimate point is this: Stop being afraid of the word 'socialism'. Stop letting your fear get in the way of the truth. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 91 | |
| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:59:48 PM | ...so if its broke maybe one could think it doesnt work?
One could also deduce that it's underfunded.
i look at cali and mass ( states that try to run healthcare) and i see how bad as in broke they are and worry for the rest of the country
Maybe it might be better to look at one of the many examples in the western world that do work, and cost less per-capita, and have as a priority, universal coverage.
Viewing society only through the lens of markets and economies is not new, though it's been a trend in the west since the '70s, but it has been tried before and always fails those societies under the lenses (with the exception of those in the oligarchy). | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 2:03:39 PM | The fact of the matter is Socialism works in countrys like Norway, where the population of the whole country is 4.8 million and they are rich from the oil and fishing industry.
Unlike the United States where the hand of America is DEEP in Chinia's pocket and is downing in debt from its own greed and shady government. I am not afraid of Socialism I am afriad of Americas collapse. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 2:04:41 PM | I pointed out that we do, in fact, have socialized police forces, Medicaid, fire departments, infrastructure, and public education, to name a few entities.
My ultimate point is this: Stop being afraid of the word 'socialism'. Stop letting your fear get in the way of the truth.
iam not afarid of the word socialism, what iam afaird of is our goveremnt not running right well. look you show me it works and iam onboard, untill then i will hold my reservation, considering the price tag. yes u have names some examples, i dont know that u have named anyone that runs well, but thats our opinons on that. what truth, mr obama has giving no concrete plans, all i have to go on is cali and mass. , iam not saying that it will be the way this is ran, but thats all i have. i can give alot of examples of what goverment programs have failed, my point is not going tit fot tat, its just the fact that iam concerned about our goverment running anything, i mean repub or dem running the program. by the way does the fed. gov. subsidies the oil indrustry, wanst not that long agao that everyone was up in armw about the oil prices, just a example of gov. failrue | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 2:29:35 PM | Capitalism strengthens some areas and weakens other areas, that's just the way it is. Socialism does the exact same thing. You can't have a little of this and a little of that in the same economic system. Socialism for health care, economy, and capitalism for everything else? Lets be real. People are without health care because they can't pay what the owner of the hospital is asking for. Yes people have a right to be healthy, they also have a right to not starve to death but you can't stroll into a supermaket and take 1 grape without having to pay for it. Is it wrong for an entire nation to be built on making money and being extremely wealthy at the cost of dying citizens that can't afford health care? Nope! But U.S. still helps the economically challenged individual with cool stuff like wellfare thanks to everybody paying out of our pockets to help the lesser citizens. America DOES care about all its citizens through and through. Is there any wonder that the U.S. is THE BEST place to be if you're sick or have no money? If you're going to be ill and homeless, would you rather be in America or Africa or even Asia?! We got dumpsters filled with food outside of restaurants, wellfare checks right in the mail, jail cells that actually give you some decent health care and ok food and you don't pay a cent for room or board, you just pay the price of incarceration and butt love from other men  | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 2:37:56 PM | Yes people have a right to be healthy
i must start buy saying agree with most every thing else u said, but the right to b healthy, its not a right, my mother has been sick for my whole life ( she has parkisons and krones) , my fathere has worked his ass off for her, when i say that i mean my dad is 62 years old and still works 50 to 60 hrs a week as a diesel mech., we pay for her healthcare outta pocket, so i ask you where is her rights, its not a right, its luck and a blessing to b healthy. that word right is thrown around to much these days, in my opinion. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 3:53:43 PM | Canadian gives his opinion:
Our medical system works alright. The waiting times can be long so one usually books one's appointments 3 or 4 months in advance. It is possible to go to the hospital directly and see someone, the wait is usually under 4 hours.
As Mona asked, yes shortage of staff is the key problem. The problem being, of course the there is less money to be made here in Canada practicing medicine than elsewhere. Currently efforts are being made to create an educational program that would update the training of immigrant doctors to add to the pool of available specialists.
I have never lived (and I am 35) without hearing on the news how the health system is suffering and that there is no money and yet neither have I heard of anyone having a bad experience (well... beyond chance or human nature) with our medical system. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 4:16:53 PM |
From what I understand, Canada's difficulty in expedient care doesn't stim from a lack of funding, but from a serious shortage of medical practitioners. This could be a problem under any system.
Yep, we got a lot of their Dr's when they went to that healthcare system. Just like a lot of OUR Dr's will leave if we do the same. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 4:34:07 PM | | You have made this comment before. I think last time you said that would leave the country and take your nursing skills with you. My question still remains, where are you going to go? The United States is the only industrialized nation without universal health care. Most of Africa is open, about half of Asia. Let us know your decision. | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 4:55:44 PM | With all respect folk, ~ America has just been robbed! That right ! "Somebody" has made off with some loot! Lot's of it! and like a huge machine that can't be shut off that's developed a small flaw, we are still mass producing error! ~ Everyday, I see bags of gold with little wings on them just flying off to god knows where!
We are a huge nation, capiable for doing both good and bad ~ and a lot of it ! in short period of time.
We fight among ourselves today ~ as the bag man makes a clean getaway.
America unique forum of Capitalism was working rather well ~ UNTIL!
So let's not burn down the barn to get rid of the rats ~ Okay?
Yes we've got our dummies! ~ We've got a lot of them in fact. ~
Like one lady said , " Keep government out of my medicare!"
Fortunately , she's not running anything but her mouth.
We got people dumber then a box of rocks ~ and they listen to TV and vote!
Things are a changing for us and we'll be stronger and better for it.
But for now, ~ we short cash flow and we hurt. (some still dumb struck as to how or why)
My thoughts are to recover some stolen loot might help. But this would side track todays business. I think we should but ~ I fear we'd spend as much reclaiming it as we'd get back. It's a sad state of affairs we find ourselves in for sure, as the world looks on.
Just know this, American was founded of solid principles and offers good will to all men. Know that we appreciate both your unwavering support and concerns. You honor us.
And please don't question our power or resolve to defend and protect both ourselves and our friends borders and values we all hold so dear.
Now we might have to work on a National Program to dig into sofa cushions in every household to get it done ~ might hock the dog ~ but we are here and we are still up to a strong fight, several if necessary.
Personally I think we need to send Karl Rowe and Chaney to help out in Afghanistan, a little lead from the front approach to things.
Hang with us ~ we get through this mess ~~ and I thank you.
dance | |
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| Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/19/2009 8:43:48 PM |
Yep, we got a lot of their Dr's when they went to that healthcare system. Just like a lot of OUR Dr's will leave if we do the same.{/quote]
The US is still far below the OECD optimal standard in both doctors per patient and beds per patient. Doctors immigrate constantly for numerous reasons, this isn't something universal to a single healthcare system. Canadian Physician migration to the US doesn't account for even half of their immigration trend.
You have to consider that doctors travel to nations for education, training, fellowship periods, and other medical practice experiences. "Its all about the money" doesn't account for many of the migrations, the same thing plagues US healthcare despite it being private insure, for profit.
Despite having double the annual per capita cost, we can only boast a .3 advantage of physicians per 1000 people. The level of physicians operating in the US has been in decline ever since '00. | |
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