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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/21/2009 8:56:37 PM | hello everybody. my apologies for not being able to get back to this, actually my original post, was the first message on this forum and i was not expecting this much of a response, in such a short amount of time. i appreciate everyones input, and i have read each and every one of them.
i will try to answer some of the questions that i have read, or atleast i remember, and clarify a few items which i believe have been misunderstood.
clarification #1: we went to university together (4 years). we knew one another. we started going out officially a year after university, which means at year 5, we started going out. now it has been 4 years that we are together, hence a total of 9 years of knowing her, and 4 years of being with her.
answers:
Q1: Is she a virgin?
A: Yes, she is a virgin, or atleast thats what she has said. Believe it or not, I have not even been down there to check. Although, if you ask me, I do believe her 100% and if I were to judge, I would say, she is virgin, as she says.
Q2: Get her drunk and get laid.
A: She does not drink.
Q3: Is she not giving you some because of religion?
A: No. If it was religion, she wouldn't have gone out with me for 4 years. Why is she not wanting to do it?.. I am not sure.
Q4: "IllBurHukleBry" lady - Why are you here? Why are you crying? You can't respect her and support her, you are weak etc etc.
A: Madam, in short, I love this woman alot. If you respected your man half as much as I respect my woman, you wouldn't have your door closed with him banging on it. I feel sorry for your partner based on what I have read from you so far.
When we got together, it was the respect which kept me from asking her for sex, for not just the first couple of weeks.. but 12 months. (maybe I was wrong in not asking). When I did bring up the sex talk to her, she basically said, "I'm not ready for it." I took that for face value and suddenly replied back, "Ok.. I will wait.. " That one year has stretched into four years, and I am honestly not sure what to do.
Suggestion 1: Maybe she's not into you?
A: I am .. should I say, I consider myself as an attractive guy, love sports, go to gym regularly. Time to time, I would surprise her with things, flowers, find beautiful spots to drive up and take her away from the routine randomly etc etc... almost every second week I would try to come up with something, which results in tears in her eyes because she really loves what I do for her.
Suggestion 2: Give her an ultimatum and see what she says. Based on that, dump her if need be.
A: I actually did give her an ultimatum last week. She was very upset and cried alot. It broke my heart but I really resisted giving in. It looked very promising that very night as she was shocked. I had basically told her that "I was starting to loose certain feelings and that I really think we need to get physical. I told her that I feel these physical urges really getting the best of me and that she is the only one I can turn to." She cried quiet alot and in that very conversation had suggested that we would like have to have sex. and that she does not want me to loose attraction towards her. To my surprise, the very next day, she told me that she cannot have sex, she is not ready...
From the looks of it, she's definetely a virgin and is almost 'afraid' of sex. Ofcourse I am not going to force her for this, but I really don't know how to shake her out of this. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 10:34:50 AM | | well i'm sorry to say this but i think your friend might need some psychiatric help. i mean if she is truly *afraid* of sex then that is just not normal. was she ever sexually abused in her past? because that would explain a lot of things if she was. otherwise, it's up to you but i doubt she will be having sex with you any time in the near future. there are plenty of women who would love to have sex with you i'm sure so why wait for her? why is she so special? honestly she hasn't even given you a good reason for not sleeping with you. why remain a virgin if it's not for religious purposes? makes no sense to me. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 10:52:40 AM | Hello OP,
Kudos for getting back with us. I was beggining to this this was a troll post, however your replies have lead me to believe that you are a genuine person who's frustration has hit an all time high.
I'm not going to jump on the "if she's worth it, you will wait" bandwagon.
And I would seriously love to hear from anyone in this forum that would make someone wait 6 years to be intimate with them.
I see you are 28 from your profile. You love this woman, that is appearent. Anyone that says you don't doesn't have a clue. You have basically been celibrate for 4 years for this woman and she asking you to remain so for another 2 because of some timeline SHE decided.
She's not ready. Fair enought. The only problem I have with your post is you saying you don't know how to shake her from this.
OP, it's been 4 years. Nothing you say or do will make her change her mind on this.
She has never had sex and from the sounds of things, she not interested in doing so.
This leave it up to you on what you are going to do.
You really have only a few options.
Have a sexless realtionship with her.
or
Move on without her.
Something else you need to ponder. You are a healthy grown man in your 20's.
Do you really want to spend the ages of 24-30 without any type of physical intimacy with a woman you love? | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 10:53:10 AM | First OP, if you delivered your "ultimatum" as you described, I wouldn't consider that an ultimatum which is good. You let her know that you want to sleep with her as a part of the affection that you have and that not being able to do so is starting to mess with your big head. This is something that she needed to know. Realizing this and having the reaction the next morning, sigh.
I'm agreeing with Edencapwell on this. Is it possible that she had some type of incident as a child that she blocked out? You said religion isn't part of this but what was her family's position on premarital sex? She could have very ingrained messages from her family of origin that caused her to internalize that sex was dirty, tramps, etc.
It is seriously not normal in the loving relationship that you describe for her to be afraid of sex unless it is an issue that she is horrified that she is so inexperienced at her age? Idk, I would approach this as I love you and let's solve this together.
I know you tried to recap but are you engaged to this girl? Is she afraid that even after all this time you will be one of those guys that disappears not terribly soon after the sex? My daughter and I discussed this recently. She is a senior this year and knows several girls that were in long like 2 years or more, relationships with guys and then not long after they finally did the deed, they were dumped. I told her that I suspect it is not that the guys were dirtbags but that the sex thing morphed into a sort of goal and after they finally had sex, the guys realized they didn't really love the girl like they thought they did because they had started going through the motions with the relationship.
As a virgin, you might just talk to her about sex, that it is often initially clumsy and not very good but that most people learn how everything works and that is part of the relationship, finding out what makes you and your partner feel good. If you haven't even checked things out as you alluded to in your post, why don't you suggest that if she is afraid, you go a little further than you have without actually having sex. She might be able to relax and do that and wake up her slumbering libido and get to the point that her desire outweighs her fear.
She's not ready. Fair enought. The only problem I have with your post is you saying you don't know how to shake her from this. OP, it's been 4 years. Nothing you say or do will make her change her mind on this.
This point brings up another. What if after the grad school she tells you she still isn't ready? Again, have you discussed marriage, etc.? Some people believe in waiting until marriage even when it is not a religious thing and I know my daughter's mindset is that she doesn't want to have sex until she is able to raise the potential consequences of having sex, is an unplanned pregnancy potentially part of this for her too? Would her family flip out if she wound up pregnant when she wasn't yet married? | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 12:07:45 PM |
... I really don't know how to shake her out of this.
You can't. It may be possible that she can, with counseling. Maybe. I have no inkling what the problem is, but, clearly: there is one; it isn't you; and it's major.
So where does that leave you?
I don't think you'll regret it if you stay a while longer with her while she tries some counseling. It may not help, or not within a time frame that's livable for you, but at least you'll know you did everything you could to help. If she won't go, though, as hard as it is, I think for your own sake you've got to conclude that she's too screwed up to be with.
Good luck with all this. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 12:25:49 PM | Well, there were so many replies to this that I couldn't read them all, so sorry if this is redundant. Have you gotten to the bottom of WHY this is an issue for her? Maybe she has a disease (HIV?) and is afraid to tell you. Or maybe she has a pregnancy phobia. Or, she may have been molested at some time in her past, and is unable to move forward. Do you really know her as well as you think? This sounds like one for couples' counseling to me.
That aside, the fact that you're wondering if this is "enough to ditch her" raises a red flag. "Ditch" sounds so premeditated, and "enough" suggests you are looking for reasons to make your break. Sounds to me like you have one foot out the door already.
And, to echo others - WTH does getting a masters' have to do with getting married? Plenty of married people pursue advanced degrees, and many universities provide affordable housing for them.
Let us know what you decide to do! Good luck. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 2:34:18 PM | From the looks of it, she's definetely a virgin and is almost 'afraid' of sex. Ofcourse I am not going to force her for this, but I really don't know how to shake her out of this.
You CAN'T shake her out of this. This is clearly a huge hang-up of hers, and it sounds like she's not communicating with you about it aside from telling you that she's "not ready". Not being ready is fundamentally different from waiting until marriage despite wanting to, and it sounds to me like there's definitely something going on in her head that she can't or won't talk to you about, let alone work through. If she's "not ready" after four years together, I can't imagine she'll be ready in another year or two unless she does some violent soul-searching in the meantime. I suspect she'll be ready with some other excuse come then, because this seems to be something she wants to avoid.
Have you touched her between her legs over her clothes? Under them? Mutual masturbation? Oral sex? You could ask her if she'd be willing to start exploring a couple of these things with you. If not, then perhaps you could suggest counseling so she can work on whatever is holding her back.
From what you say, it really does sound unlikely to change. Considering the lack of communication and her complete frigidity, I definitely think you're justified in ending this relationship if you need to do so for your own sake, especially since you're losing your feelings for her (and frankly, I would lose mine for someone after a few months--how you've made it four years is completely beyond me). If she's unable or unwilling to change, then you can choose either to accept her as she is, or to leave and look for better. You may not be able to have both a good (or even acceptable) sex life AND a relationship with this woman, at least not in an ethical way. It's also worth considering what your sex life with her is likely to look like ten years from now even if she does marry you, and whether you're willing to settle for what the outcome of that is most likely to be. Good luck. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 2:46:21 PM | I know I will be going somewhat against the grain here.....but....
Going with someone for that length of time and no intimacy is not just about saving yourself for marriage. She is deliberately using this as an excuse to not further the level of intimacy between you, keep you at arm's length, literally. Let's face it....this is the 21st century....even during Victorian times, people your age were getting more intimate than you are now.
There are more deep rooted issues at play here. Is it possible she has a fear of intimacy due to some abuse as a child or adolescent? Or she has some unrealistic puritan views of sexuality? Poisoned by fundamental, religious dogma. Completely overwhelmed and uncertain of her ability to meet yours (or anyone's needs sexuality) or paralysis by analysis. In any event, enough is enough....if this is for real, get out in the real world and find someone who realizes sexuality is a natural part of human interaction and wont be offended, afraid or overwhelmed by getting naked. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 3:37:42 PM | | she is disrescpecting u and i thuink she has a mental problem need s to get to a shrink | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 3:40:20 PM | OP, if she is not ready/willing to have sex yet, she never will be.
Are you really willing to throw your life away over her?
Believe it or not, that is exactly what you are doing. I assume from a lack of statement to the contrary that she has done nothing about the situation in terms of medical/psychological counselling.
If she is not even motivated to address the situation with anything but refusal and tears (yes, yes - you talk about it), then on what would you base any optimism in the situation? What proactive measures has she taken? Or you for that matter? | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 3:52:33 PM | | I knew a couple who had no sex after being married for six months. The problem was solved by the couple's friends and family members who communicated with both of them. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 4:06:13 PM | I guess I'll add my little ole opinion on to the multitude. Something is up, and it's more than she is telling you! Either she has some trauma or fear to get over, or something else is going on with her. You know, normal women need a healthy sex life too! If you had told me it was a religious thing, I could possibly understay and having been raised in a very restrictive religion and knowing how mind controlling that can be. If that is not her issue, it seems to me you need to do some follow thru with your ultimatim. Either get counseling, get some better answers... and in the meantime, Here is a thought of how to handle this, I would reclassify the relationship, not only with her but in your own head. Maybe not eliminate her from you life, but view her as a friend or a casual date, while you move on and continue an adult dating life with others. I will promise you. If this love that you and she share is truly that powerful, it will survive! If she loves you, she shouldn't be putting you in a position of asking you to give up so many years of your life to celibacy!
I will tell you from experience, having allowed religion to do that to me in the past, I am very resentful of the years of my life that I gave away "doing the right thing". Live your life and enjoy it! We have physical and sexual needs because we are human and that is normal, to deny yourself that is not normal which is the reason you are struggling with this so hard. You are fighting a basic human need! It's people who try to live these uptight, puritan lives that turn into closet perverts and freaks! I would simply tell her that you are going to keep dating and if she ever feels ready to have a more serious relationship with you to let her know. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 4:21:44 PM | wow 4 years!i applaud that. however,do you want this to be the way this always will be?even if you hang in there she may have psychological issues holding her back.unless she's willing to get help i'd have to say bye.seriously i would never consider marrying somebody im not sexually compatable with.what will you do then?what if she still has this issue after marriage?maybe she will want sex once a month?6 months?and she just lays there at that?no thank you | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 4:51:48 PM |
Q4: "IllBurHukleBry" lady - Why are you here? Why are you crying? You can't respect her and support her, you are weak etc etc.
A: Madam, in short, I love this woman alot. If you respected your man half as much as I respect my woman, you wouldn't have your door closed with him banging on it. I feel sorry for your partner based on what I have read from you so far.
Yes...you love and respect her so much that your are here, letting the world know, she's a virgin and has issues with intimacy...and you are asking whether you should be looking elsewhere or "cheat"....ummm yesss...very respectful....!! If you truly wanted to be respectful you'd have talked with her in private about these issues...9 years you have known her and can't communicate properly with her...??
Truth hurts doesn't it...?? You want to hear what you want to hear...that it's ok for you to "cheat" ...move on mister...4 years ? Omg .....what the heck are you waiting for....go get laid...geesh......!!!! So go....that's what you wanted to hear with your troll of a post...!
Hmmm.....maybe she's not all that into you!! If she's still a virgin, for her to want to give herself, it would have to be to someone she could truly trust, someone with whom she can completely depend upon....with your "ultimatums" and constant badgering or nagging she's not going to feel she can trust you enough to be there in the long scheme of things either....this is probably why she's distanced herself from you...not to mention the fact that you've claimed lost feelings towards her... and you feel sexual intimacy is the only way to regain that...geee....makes me wanna just jump yer bones....
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 6:27:11 PM | | I agree with IllBurHukleBry's thoughts. Ditching her or cheating on her presents nothing related to loving her! In addition, OP is on the dating site and tells that he's single. Does his love to the hard working woman exist? Maybe there is a different story between OP and the hard working woman. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 8:58:57 PM | Q: Why do you show single on your profile.
A: I will go change that. Creating this account, I wasn't very keen on filling every field properly, I just wanted the account made and just clicked/typed whatever, sort of like when you make a fake email account for all the spam. I will correct the status right now. Thanks.
Q: Did she have a childhood or past where she was abused sexually?
A: She did not have a troubled childhood or past.
Q: Why are you on a dating site?
A: Good question. I guess I was looking to turn to someone for advice. Someone who did not know me personally, someone who wouldn't laugh at my situation and spread it around. I have actually gotten very good responses, enough that I see some signs of improvement. (Will talk about that below).
So, I was with her most of the day today, we had a BLAST as always. I was somewhat distracted as always and she kept asking me what it is which is keeping me from being 100% myself. Although I didn't really want to get back into this, I did bring the topic up and this time, I got a little mad. Maybe I was angry at myself, the situation, her, I dont know. After an hour of talk, with different emotional heights, apparently I am getting a BJ tomorrow with a condom, as a start. She's still not too sure about doing the actual deed, but has said she's willing to start from here. I am actually somewhat relaxed, atleast I see some light of hope. The story has not ended, but its taking a turn, in a good direction, thanks to all of you. I am not sure where I go from here, but I will let you know. Let me know what you guys think. | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 10:45:43 PM | If it really bothers you that much that you're not getting laid then break up with her. I'm not of the mind that certain things can’t be controlled. Not cheating is controllable. If it was truly uncontrollable you would have done it by now. (You say "especially when she's not giving me any" but say that you haven't had sex with her)
If you love her respect her wishes then wait with her. Ask her what she does to help her not get to the point where she's "beyond horny". It might actually help you wait with her if that's what you want to do.
Honestly, going to college and being a wife wouldn't be an ideal scenario. Kudos to those who can pull it off, but that just sounds too stressful to me. I'm assuming she has a job as well so having to juggle work, school, marriage, and whatever else she has to juggle in her life is a lot.
If she doesn't think juggling all that is too much perhaps she's trying to make sure she's got the right one. You've already told her that she’s becoming less attractive to you because she’s not giving you any. I would feel awful if a guy I was with told me I was becoming less attractive to him because I choose to wait until marriage to have sex. That sounds like something some high school kid would say to get a girl to sleep with him. Hopefully your main reason for marrying her is not for the sex. Maybe she's seeing red flags and doesn't want to get married right now because of that. Still, it’s put up or shut up time. When it comes down to it what do you care more for her or sex? You will put more effort towards the thing that has your heart.
If you already cheated or if you're getting ready to cheat (i.e: you already have someone ready to go) then you both should go your separate way.
EDIT: I was reading some of your replies and it seems that she didn't tell you from the jump that she wanted to wait until marriage. That's messed up. I guess she was afraid that you would leave her if she said that (see the "would you wait" thread)...still that's not right. Now that you know what the deal is you gotta decide if you're going to stay with it for the long hall chastity belt and all or are you going to walk away.
Considering that I don't know the girl I can't say whether she is or isn't afraid of sex, but I would be more afraid of becoming another statistic. :-\ | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 11:33:48 PM | well dude... i'll go against the current (again) ....
but as much as i would agree that 4 years without is plain unacceptable, i cant help it but think what things will be like if/when you marry her.... let me explain:
there is something called the "180" or the "bait and switch" that women do.... meaning that until you put a rock on her finger she'll do everything you'd ever dreamed of and then, just like a switch, everything is "off the menu"....
so considering that you are not getting ANYTHING now... i can only wonder what'll will happen when the switch gets flipped......
...of course, just when i think they've reached an all time low, one of them manages to shock us by getting even lower.... so needless to say my idea is a risk .... worth considering tho.... good luck
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/22/2009 11:41:00 PM |
I was somewhat distracted as always and she kept asking me what it is which is keeping me from being 100% myself.
Wait a minute, after your ultimatums and all the crying and drama from earlier and she doesn't know why you aren't your usual self?
(shakes his head)
After an hour of talk, with different emotional heights, apparently I am getting a BJ tomorrow with a condom, as a start.
Once again, tomorrow, it's always "tomorrow". Why not "tonite"
After 4 years of a relationship, 4 years of celibracy, your magic night of intimacy is a BJ with a condom. 
First thing you should do on YOUR end. Get AID tested, get a check-up and show her you are 100% healthy. Maybe, just maybe, this will ease her mind about the health issues, unless she thinks she can get pregnant from a BJ (hey, look it up pregnant by blowjob, you be amazed how many people ask this)
Dude, I can tell you a true story about a friend of mine.
He dated this woman for an entire year, no sex because she was a virgin and he assumed she wanted to wait until marriage. he did love her and he did marry her.
On the wedding night she told him, "No one will touch me in that way except Jesus Christ"
His life was hell for the next few years. This a true story, no BS.
There are some people that have incredibly messed up notions about sex and intimacy.
You really need to do some serious soul-searching if you think this woman is "the one"
because I guarantee you, sex is not the only thing she has a hang-up about. Stuff like this is usually a symptom of much larger stuff in her personality. | |
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womany
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Joined: 8/10/2009
Msg: 149 | |
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| Is this enough to ditch her?
Posted: 8/23/2009 12:21:01 AM | | she is giving you a BJ with a condom? WTF? doesn't sound like that will be much fun. i'm still not sure why you are putting up with her and all her idiocy. hell if i dated a guy for 4 years and he didn't want to have sex with me, i'd be long gone but then i'm not you and i definitely would not have been with someone for so long without being intimate. i would wonder if they found me attractive and all other sorts of thoughts. life is too short!! move on already!! there are plenty of willing women out there and guess what? they ALL have vaginas too, what is her's golden or something? | |
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