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 Author Thread: Gas milage!
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 24
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:05:46 PM

My scientist friend, who loves to track and analyze things, found that slowing down boosted his mileage way more than he ever imagined.


That is because wind-resistance is not linear in relation to speed.

Yes, HUGE +1 to avoiding ethanol crap.
 OpieDopey

Joined: 6/16/2006
Msg: 25
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:32:01 PM
I have 96 Escort LX, my "Gypsy Wagon" Was told I would get 26-27 MPG, didn't..

put in a gas additive to ungum the fuel injectors, then did get 26 highway.
 farceur

Joined: 5/3/2009
Msg: 26
Gas milage!
Posted: 8/22/2009 2:26:49 PM
The magnets do work, really well, but they have drawbacks. The magnet has to be big enough to pull the car toward it. The magnet has to be kept in motion ahead of the car. It sounds good but what happens is you end up using more gas than you save, because you need a truck to pull the magnet ahead of the car. It's bad news when you stop, too, because then the car slams into the magnet. It helps to put a folded blanket across your bumper to absorb the impact. They do work, though.
 normaldude

Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 27
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/22/2009 5:32:21 PM
pretty soon you will not be able to get gas without ethanol crap in it. It is one of the biggest scams for making people think its better. There has never been an independently tested device that has made any measurable mileage increase. All those devices are snake oil. The only way to extend your range is to keep the car tuned up, keep the tires at full pressure, limit the weight you carry and SLOW DOWN
 shmodzilla

Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 28
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:48:22 AM
modern, even older cars coast a long time . Why do people go like hell to stop signs then slam on the brakes? try letting off the gas WAY earlier, you'll be suprised. Also if you are coming to a red light you see ahead let off way early and try to wait for it to be green while your still at speed. Not only does it save gas it is actually fast since you never stopped. Stay back from traffic if there is a stupid driver in front of you going 50, then 40, then 50.. all that speeding up and slowing down is eating gas. Just hang back a hundred yards and do a steady 45, saves a lot.

My blazer is rated 15 city, 20 highway. Even in my town of hills i still get over 20 in town, my best highway ever i scraped 34 mpg. I bought a scan gauge, was about 140 bucks and has paid for itself over and over.
 yna6

Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 29
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:17:01 PM
I really have to get the tank fiexed....leaking gas or it evapourating off isn't helping my milage in any way!
Loved that "gypsy wagon"...hehehehe
 johnconiston

Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 30
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/23/2009 5:38:24 PM
Inflate your tyres to the correct pressure.
Anticipate road conditions brake gently and only acclerate smoothly.
if your car is more than 5 years old replace the grease in the wheel bearings also replace all drive train lubricants ( anything at all really that can improve your car's freewheeling ability)
with these measure my old 1995 328 Bmw does 36 miles to the British Imperial gallon
probaly more like 30 for your US gallon.
best way to save your Gas dollars? car share! myself and a neighbour do this for our commute and we have both halved our commute bills and that includes wear and tear and also the mileage depreciation.

and therfore allows for me to hit the accelrator at the weekend!
 MillionYearMoment

Joined: 8/21/2009
Msg: 31
Gas milage!
Posted: 8/25/2009 4:45:13 PM
Yna6,

Check this out

95 4-Runner here, 6 cyl 3.0 FI, mountain highway driving

Was getting 475km at 105-110 km/h per 65L tank.~~~~~~~7 km/L or 17 mpg
Now getting 625km at 90km/h. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~10 km/L or 23 mpg

Didn't cost me a dime, it didn't contribute any demand for more consumer goods to be manufactured out of any natural resources by installing gizmos and I'm chilled out plus less bagged upon arrival. Viva the Cool of James Dean. People rushing people rushing ..in the end...for what?


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaaaa
 hockey199

Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 32
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/25/2009 4:56:52 PM
I get about 7KM/L average in my Audi.
 andso.itgoes

Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 33
Gas milage!
Posted: 8/25/2009 5:50:35 PM
I like the Escher trick. Not too late for the rest of you to take a look!
 black hat

Joined: 2/6/2006
Msg: 34
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/25/2009 11:08:09 PM
I live in a university town with free busses,I use them,I dont know what they run on but they dont go real fast,especilly the ones right in Clemson,I have a Silverado though,There are alot of Grease cars on Ebay that are disal or Grease,have not inqired about them,but there about the same for instance a 1977 Mercedes with a good deal of miles 1800,while there was one that a guy said ran on both,but it still had that 1800 price,it makes you wonder if the kits they had where magic beans,

I mean neal young said he had the full Job done in one of his Classic Cadilacs and it was alot,so that on one of those car shows,but there are kits on Ebay that show you how to make ethenyl and even they sell Stills on Ebay,Just like if you make your own wind power in the Desert you can sell it back to the Government,if you really want them to know ,I keep my opinion to my self on that.
 whothehellknows

Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 35
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:38:54 AM
Beats me, I've never checked. I drive a Toyota Yaris now and it is supposed to get about 40 hwy. It does get great gas mileage, but I've never checked it to actually find out.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 36
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/26/2009 5:23:29 PM
When I get a new vehicle, I always check. My biggest shock ever was my built 88 GT.

302ci
670CFM vacuum operated carb (Holley Avenger)
.542 lift cam
10.5:1 compression
4.10 gears

25mpg. I then swapped to a 575cfm double-pumper style and my mileage dropped to 18-19. This is highway. Still, built carbed V8 with 4.10's knocking back 25mpg!? I was beside myself.
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 37
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 12:26:31 AM

I take my foot off the gas and start coasting (assuming I'm not slowing to an annoying pace if there's someone behind me).

I love annoying the sh1t out of people who get frustrated when I coast to the next red light...they race around me and then hit the breaks at the light. I occasionally wave at them (especially if they've been surly) as I pass them at the light.
Tailgaters have got to be the worse...I slow down even more!

Using cruise control does help. Manual transmission is the only way to go. Huge benefits while stopped at a light and much safer for deceleration in bad conditions.

06 Ranger 3.0 L (standard)...10L/100k at 10-20k over the limit. (highway). Anything over that...and a problem arises...

I have a governator that won't let me go past 147km/h. Probably a good thing.

Any person that claims a device (magnets, et al) will increase gas mileage is a Shylock.
 vanaheim

Joined: 6/6/2009
Msg: 38
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:16:10 AM

Wierd, we only balance and blue-print the engine and/or flywheel once and it seems to do just fine. Whatever was wrong with your car sounds like it was rather destructively serious.

Triple carbs on a divided manifold, race rules means you have to a return spring on every butterfly valve so the linkage would twist over a week. Also the mixture had to be balanced as dictated by the plugs, because being longitudinal the front carb ran lean, rear one rich. Also the type of carb being a slide valve (SU) has about 120 different needles which controls mixture through the manifold vacuum range and the one for each carb is best tailored individually and dependent upon ambient temperature, elevation, essentially time of year and where abouts you're going to be driving the thing (there's some ranges nearby).
This manual process, finicky and taking a bit of intuition to get right is called balancing the carbs. A lot of mechanics couldn't do it or messed it up totally trying so taught myself. It's worth 30hp or more if you get it right, and is the difference between a hoon car and a genuine race trim on the street.
Put it this way, I ran 3.3 litres at ca.11.5 comp with triple 1.75" throats for something like 250hp @ 7200 for 2425lbs of car.
I know that output figure doesn't sound huge, believe me I know, I raced at Calder Park and on the street and people are telling me bla bla 400, 500 and 600hp and I'm blowing their doors off (says something about popular renditions of actual power outputs). But typical Oz engines were big straight sixes 3.3-4.1 litre and small eights 4.2-5.0 litre, about the biggest thing you'd see around is a 5.8 cleveland invariably in something 3100lbs or heavier. A very fast local car might have 300hp in his 5.0 litre or 350hp in his 5.8, they'll pull maybe 14secs/400m and I'll kick their butt every which way, they won't even make it across the intersection I'll be down the road.


By the way that spreadbore 670 of yours would've operated at about 250cfm most of the time, while that 575 squarebore would've operated at about 380, there's your problem. Better torque delivery off the line with a squarebore though and optimal airflow with those specs will top out at around 600cfm on 5.0 litres anyway, assuming a 2.5" paper filament and very free exhaust.
Tried it on locally made 5.0 litres, the 600 squarebore holley was as big as you could go on the track without actually losing power, even though they came delivered with a 680 spreadbore (a lot of guys made the mistake of keeping that carb for street racing, though indeed better economy). In the 80s and 90s they were getting 550-600hp out of those 5.0 litre motors on the touring car track, using 600-650cfm depending on the circuit.
Same thing with the 780 carter on 5.8 litre clevelands and the 650 double pumper, though the cleveland is pretty thirsty, so long as you go absolutely ballistic mechanical lifters and the full bit it'll soak up a 750dp for around 420hp return on the street dyno'd (this is basically the showroom floor trim of the Phase III GTHO Falcons in 1972 after blueprinting). Funny thing with the 5.8 is the 2v heads race prepped actually get better times than the 4v ones.

And mate 4.10 gears are nuts. 3.5 is plenty for those specs, more than plenty. How did you get 25mpg, doing 35mph all over the state?
I varied between 3.36 and 3.55 gears at different times, that was plenty. I only chose 3.55 because I was doing drag runs more than circuits and lived in suburbia, when I was out further the 3.36 were definitely the way to go, could actually see 140mph, could do 100mph economically.

I got 31mpg highway (about 11mpg city, ahem with a heavy right foot but) so your 25mpg with 4.10 gears, 10.5 comp, a cam lift that suggests around 27/65 timing at least for OHV or any 2valve/cyl job and a 5.0 litre engine capacity in what, a 3200lb car? That's pretty bloody impressive.


been trying to remember my cam specs, it was something pretty special that got lined up for me off the track tables, but understand this was nearly twenty years ago.
36/72 timing and iirc .580" lift and adv.dur 320/305 degrees or thereabouts, used to spit raw fuel into the exhaust under about 2500 and didn't come on strong until 3500 or so, but pulled like a ton of bricks roughly 4500-7100 and would spin to 7500 which isn't bad for an old iron block OHV with tappets (busted one in half and bent a pushrod one time though). Maximum output was probably at 6800 but I never really did get it quite sorted as well as I knew it could be.
 cncgandolf

Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 39
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:06:26 AM
"Even 10% ethanol in gas will noticeably reduce mileage. "

Ooooooooooooo.... hmmmmm.... ethanol became common about the time I had to replace my engine. I've always blamed the engine for dropping my mileage from slightly over 30 to slightly over 25 . Alas, my car can't be classified a clunker. Maybe I should blame the ethanol instead of the engine. I'll try to find some without and test for it.

I drive a 1989 MR2 with 5 speed transmission... I'll never own an automatic again, I hope. (medical necessity being the only reason).

My favorite was my 1986 Colt which got 42 on trips to Mammoth .. better mileage going to than back. The Geo Metro was good on gas, but don't try to drive it up a steep hill, it lacked the guts to really make it over the CA grapevine .... slow lane reqjuired for the struggle.

So, if my Colt back in 86 got 42mpg can someone please explain why car manufacturers still need so much time to reach a mpg standard much lower than that?
 vanaheim

Joined: 6/6/2009
Msg: 40
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Posted: 8/27/2009 9:17:21 AM

So, if my Colt back in 86 got 42mpg can someone please explain why car manufacturers still need so much time to reach a mpg standard much lower than that?


Easy. Because car manufacturers took that amount of time to get that sort of mileage out of engines producing much better output than your 1986 Colt, at a reasonable cost to the consumer and themselves.
Cars are far more comprehensively engineered and equipped, so are much heavier, they need more powerful engines though better aerodynamic design also helps.
In other words not just fuel economy needed to be improved but also features, emissions and safety.

Your 1.5 litre Colt put out 70hp back then and used lightweight to compensate, in a high speed crash I don't much like your chances of survival, and load bearing ability is poor, also engine anciliaries like air conditioning and high energy electrical requirements have to be kept at a minimum and noticeably reduce mileage.

A 1.5 litre engine with variable valve technology today puts out 110hp in stock trim with a very good torque rating, luxurious features including crash rating and the same or better economy, not to mention stricter emissions requirements and far better overall performance. A 1986 Colt is like a go kart at a fair by comparison.

A 1.8 litre V-Tec or VTi engine which puts out around 200hp gets about the same economy as a 1.5 litre Colt from the mid-80s and can be found in small luxury cars like the Civic and Prelude with very good performance and features, or semi luxury cars like the Mazda 3. These are not light vehicles, though use some weight saving features such as spaceframe and monocoque with internal crash bracing and crumple zones, instead of the old girded steel subframe and chassis and prayer beads.

The type of modern car in the Colt's class is now the 1.3 litre, with around 25% better mileage and as much power output as the Colt, slightly better in most cases.

And then you have your hybrids and low mileage specialist cars in the class of the Dihatsu charade of the 80's at 1.0 litre, 3 cyl for almost as much power output as your Colt, but up to 70mpg, these combine the high efficiency engine with very low fuel consumption. They do however have low torque ratings and are not very heavy machines, subject to reduced performance on inclines and instability in high winds.


So the buyer of the Colt car class today can choose a luxury car with luxury car performance and features for the same fuel economy, or a similar car which is much safer and has noticeably better fuel economy and features, or a similar car to drive but newer which has more than 50% better fuel economy.
 nobeergut

Joined: 6/2/2006
Msg: 41
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 12:04:55 PM
I have better mileage by using FULL synthetic oil ,e.g. Mobil1; and by following MFR recommendation to use 91 octane (premium). The cost difference for both the oil and fuel seem to be exceeded by the savings. In fact with synthetic oil, the change interval can be extended where the car does not perform severe duty - see your owner manual. For my Toyota the change interval can be 7,500 for normal duty and I have gone 10k before a change of synthetic, and no harm done yet, it's at 130K and still running fine. Of course I commute uncongested freeway miles, with little surface or stop and go miles.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 42
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 3:29:44 PM
I have better mileage by using FULL synthetic oil ,e.g. Mobil1; and by following MFR recommendation to use 91 octane (premium). The cost difference for both the oil and fuel seem to be exceeded by the savings. In fact with synthetic oil, the change interval can be extended where the car does not perform severe duty - see your owner manual. For my Toyota the change interval can be 7,500 for normal duty and I have gone 10k before a change of synthetic, and no harm done yet, it's at 130K and still running fine. Of course I commute uncongested freeway miles, with little surface or stop and go miles.


Mobil one is not full synthetic anymore, but now more of a blended oil ever since they lost the law-suit against Castrol and I personally refuse to use the crap. My WS6 used 1qt per 2500 miles (5-30 15K mile formula). Mobil 1 shears down BADLY! I now run a true group IV oil (fully synthetic) (Castrol 0-30 Syntec European, I belive the only Castrol that IS truly group IV) and I use 1qt per 5K miles (about the interval I use.).

Most LS1 equipped vehicles do use a slight amount of oil due to inherent engine design (short skirt lightweight pistols and low-tension oil rings, frees up some powa!). Normal, but with an oil that thins down badly over time, this is exacerbated greatly.

The reason you get better mileage on 91* is because the engine can advance timing without detonation so you are running more eficiently than if the ECU retarded timing due to knock-sensor input from detonation when running 87*.
 matchlight

Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 43
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Gas milage!
Posted: 8/27/2009 5:44:42 PM
My 2000 Corvette 6-speed gets between 28 and 29 mpg on trips, cruise control set at 75-80. Around town, with traffic, hills, stops, and all that, it's more like 17 or 18.

Poor wheel alignment is another thing that can really hurt gas mileage (and wear out your tires.) And when you're idling, or have the throttle pushed down more than about halfway, the engine runs richer (mixes more fuel with a given amount of air) than when you're just cruising.
 matchlight

Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 44
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Posted: 8/27/2009 6:00:10 PM

Mobil one is not full synthetic anymore


I bought some Red Line 10-30 online and am planning to put it in next oil change. I studied the specs, and it seems to have the best numbers overall. My LS-1--even with only 35,000 miles--has the piston slap, occasional lifter clatter, etc., which is pretty common on them. So I don't want anything but a really good synthetic. The Castrol Euro 0-40 is very good also, and so is Amsoil.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 45
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Posted: 8/27/2009 7:22:16 PM

I bought some Red Line 10-30 online and am planning to put it in next oil change. I studied the specs, and it seems to have the best numbers overall. My LS-1--even with only 35,000 miles--has the piston slap, occasional lifter clatter, etc., which is pretty common on them. So I don't want anything but a really good synthetic. The Castrol Euro 0-40 is very good also, and so is Amsoil.


Piston slap is common as is lifter chatter. I found the best thing for this was a high-flow oil filter like a K&N along with 0-30GC that I run. Oddly you will notice after you get 500-1,000 miles on an oil change your lifter chatter will calm down a bit. No clue why. Wierd. Don't worry though, the engine is fine. The engine and transmission are about the only parts in these cars that aren't a pile of crap, lol. Worry about the rest of the car. Cannot wait until I can ditch domestics and upgrade to a European car.
 farceur

Joined: 5/3/2009
Msg: 46
Gas milage!
Posted: 9/2/2009 5:39:50 AM
That works as long as you buy your gas in gallons. Buying gas in tiny metric units means less distance per unit of fuel. The more distances you get per fuels, the better.

3o miles per 4.55 liters

48.3 kilometers per 1 gallon

30:4.55 or 48.3:1

Which ratio do you want to pay for with your hard earned money?

Buying gallons to travel kilometers is better by a factor of, um, 7 ,or so. You could actually make money that way driving kilometers in a country where they have miles and sell gas by the gallon.
 avpd

Joined: 8/5/2009
Msg: 47
Gas milage!
Posted: 9/2/2009 11:42:35 AM
They sell it by the liter in canada. You look and see 98 cent gas. That's $4 per gallon. I gas up at the US border.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 48
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Gas milage!
Posted: 9/3/2009 10:25:52 PM
By the way that spreadbore 670 of yours would've operated at about 250cfm most of the time, while that 575 squarebore would've operated at about 380, there's your problem. Better torque delivery off the line with a squarebore though and optimal airflow with those specs will top out at around 600cfm on 5.0 litres anyway, assuming a 2.5" paper filament and very free exhaust.
Tried it on locally made 5.0 litres, the 600 squarebore holley was as big as you could go on the track without actually losing power, even though they came delivered with a 680 spreadbore (a lot of guys made the mistake of keeping that carb for street racing, though indeed better economy). In the 80s and 90s they were getting 550-600hp out of those 5.0 litre motors on the touring car track, using 600-650cfm depending on the circuit.
Same thing with the 780 carter on 5.8 litre clevelands and the 650 double pumper, though the cleveland is pretty thirsty, so long as you go absolutely ballistic mechanical lifters and the full bit it'll soak up a 750dp for around 420hp return on the street dyno'd (this is basically the showroom floor trim of the Phase III GTHO Falcons in 1972 after blueprinting). Funny thing with the 5.8 is the 2v heads race prepped actually get better times than the 4v ones.

And mate 4.10 gears are nuts. 3.5 is plenty for those specs, more than plenty. How did you get 25mpg, doing 35mph all over the state?
I varied between 3.36 and 3.55 gears at different times, that was plenty. I only chose 3.55 because I was doing drag runs more than circuits and lived in suburbia, when I was out further the 3.36 were definitely the way to go, could actually see 140mph, could do 100mph economically.

I got 31mpg highway (about 11mpg city, ahem with a heavy right foot but) so your 25mpg with 4.10 gears, 10.5 comp, a cam lift that suggests around 27/65 timing at least for OHV or any 2valve/cyl job and a 5.0 litre engine capacity in what, a 3200lb car? That's pretty bloody impressive.


The car was the first one I meddled with and I got suckered in by a lot of people, learned a lot. Anyways, the cam I ran was .224/224 duration and .542 lift. REDICULOUS for heads that flowed 210/150 roughly on a 302. Anyways, yes, the 575cfp trapped about 1mph faster and was much stronger off the line. I got that 25mpg with the 670 vac carb running around 70 on the highway. Yeah, shocked me. It may have been off, but I fueled up, drove 150 miles, and fueled up again, and did the math. I topped off each time at the same station. Not very scientific doing it only once, but still probably not TOO far off. My car weighed around 33XX with me not in it.

I think you are referring to tuning (A/F mixture) and not blueprinting/balancing, which is removing metal from the rotating assy to "balance" the crank and flywheel and make sure all the pistons are =.

Now I have a bone-stock Trans Am with an LS1. I love it. Gets 27+mpg highway and still does very well on the street. HORRIDLY afraid of blowing the rear-end at the track and I launched with a 2.35 60' and ran a 14.0X@ around 102 granny shifting and with a full tank of gas. On the street I have slaughtered Porsch 996's, beaten Z4M's, Challenger R/T's and been pretty much dead even with the new "426 hp" Camaro SS (guy did have a regular-sized guy as passenger). Car is probably a mid/low 13 second @ around 105-107 car with a driver that can launch at the track withing cringing every time those 275's hook up and the 7.5" rear-end telepathically screams. However, like most american cars, this one is falling apart around the driveline. Next car will either be a Viper or something turbocharged for Porsche. The viper is a pile of crap I know, but it's a pretty one, on the outside at least, and most dyno around 54-550 whp and they look really easy to work on teh way the hood has that room under it and everything. Tempting. That is why I bought a WS6 in the first place, to learn the T56 in preparation to buy a Viper when I got older.

In the GT I ran a TKO500 transmission and 4.10's. They worked well. On crappy JUNK! tires I pulled a 2.15 60' at the track. Not bad at all for a total noob at the strip. The car didn't hardly make power until 3500 and I shifted at 7K on the stock tach (around 62-6400 in actuality).
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