|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 1:53:02 PM |
I did not speciically attack willow, I called her statements lies, I did not say that she was a liar as I do not know if the statements were hers
Yes, her is a him.
She is a he.
I would hate to be known as a “she” when I am clearly a “he” (at least I was last time I checked)
Not that I have anything against the “she” variety. My daughter is a she peep and she is a wonderful person. I was married for 25 years to a she peep and she was a,,,,,, wait,,,,, poor example.
OK, I admit. She peeps scare the crap out of me.
Not that it should make any difference to the thread. It didn't seem like Bright1 was holding back because he thought I was of the fairer gender. (ouch). | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 7:31:31 PM | Exuse me divagreen, but that is not a direct quote and I do not apreciate the obfuscation. I know that I can be harsh, but am normally very carefull not to attack a poster directly, only thier posts.
Willow, sorry about calling you she. I have never checked your profile and only have a tiny avatar pic of you. I just thought you were a woman because of the name willow. My fault, sorry, I did not mean to imply anything, it was just an honest mistake. Sorry.
In respect to the OP, I think that morals are not dependant on ones actions but the thoughts and intent behind those actions. If you are not vegan by choice, for example if you are vegan because you have vegan parents and they will not permit you to eat meat, then there has been no moral desion made by you.
In our modern western world, there is no nead tro eat meat. It is now posible to eat an entirely vegitarian diet where as in the past it was not. It is only now an issue for people to decide wether or not we should continue to eat meat.
Morality is an extreamly dificult thing to define and is pretty much imposible to quantify, whas moral for one person is not for another. IMHO, it is imposible to say that one person is "more" moral than another, just difrently moral. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:16:20 PM | | Sorry Willow- I'm sure I've made the same mistake. Its the Willow name- its feminine, and is a womans name. I mean, if I came on here calling myself "Awesome April", I've got to expect some people to think I'm a chick. Especially with no picture. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:32:58 PM | Exuse me divagreen, but that is not a direct quote and I do not apreciate the obfuscation.
Excuse me Bright1Raziel, but it was. Did you bother reading your post 139? It was your first sentence.
I think that morals are not dependant on ones actions but the thoughts and intent behind those actions.
I find it interesting that we judge ourselves by our intentions, but we judge other people by their actions... | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 9:36:50 PM |
Sorry Willow- I'm sure I've made the same mistake. Its the Willow name- its feminine, and is a womans name. I mean, if I came on here calling myself "Awesome April", I've got to expect some people to think I'm a chick. Especially with no picture.
Is Willow really feminine?
I thought it was a tree.
God, now you guys have me feeling all self conscious.
Maybe I can change it to “Sir Willow”, or how about “Willow the Butch”
I know, how about “Bubba Willow”? | |
|
| |
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/13/2009 10:12:23 PM | RE Msg: 283 by Wayward Willow:
Is Willow really feminine? It wasn't always. But now it is. Especially since the redhead in Buffy, who turned out to be a lesbian, was called Willow. At least, she was a lesbian in the series. Not in real life. In real life, she's married to a man. But ever since I watched Buffy, anyone called Willow gives me a boner. Well it did, until I found out you were a guy. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/14/2009 5:29:49 AM |
I cannot tell, Cheshire, if you are refuting or reiterating...
@Divagreen, it was a refutation. Clearly, subgroups of the population have morals that often do not represent the population at large. Hence, the original post is an entirely appropriate question......
Be well...... | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 9/14/2009 7:25:49 AM |
the redhead in Buffy, who turned out to be a lesbian, was called Willow
This may explain all the come-on emails from the guys. I thought there were a lot of gays on this site.
ever since I watched Buffy, anyone called Willow gives me a boner. Well it did, until I found out you were a guy.
Ok that’s it. The name goes. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/1/2009 7:19:38 PM |
"Nowadays, we see that dining out, once thought to be a luxury, is now a necessity for many. Convenience comes at a high cost, especially for animals, and I believe that is one of Willow’s points. With convenience, you have inhumanity, health problems in the animals being produced for food and in humans who consume the meat produced. At the cost of convenience, humans tend to forget what is involved in ordering a steak, turkey sandwich, or hamburger. It is obvious that, for the sake of convenience, many people don’t want to be reminded that their dinner was once a living and breathing animal. If most people are forced to view the inhumane treatment of a factory farm, they would find it an unjust system. People think they’re higher on the food chain and have the right to eat what they want. But for convenience sake, one supposedly gains a lot by driving the store and picking up a package of chicken or beef. When animals are kept on factory farms, the treatment given to them is much less then humane. Animals are kept in warehouses without room to move around. After long periods of confinement in their small cages animals begin to show similar signs as humans suffering from sever mental illness. But WTF, it’s convenient ain’t it?"
I agree with this also.
I just ordered a book from a vegan website on eating gluten-free and vegan because vegan cooking is a way to also avoid dairy. I noticed on the site this statement about their idea of what being vegan means. Nowhere does it talk about any kind of violence or aggressive tactics that somehow seem to be the perennial example of veganism brought up on this thread for discussion purposes.
I think it is a nice summation of how I felt at the time I was vegan.
A quote from the site:
"Non-violence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man."
— Mahatma Gandhi
“Why Veganism?”
by Eva Batt
"Although all through the ages there have been many people living a strictly vegetarian existence for one reason or another, it was not until 1944 that a few enthusiastic total vegetarians (later to call themselves vegans) met in London to exchange knowledge gained through personal experience of living on a diet which excluded not only flesh, but all dairy products (milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, and eggs) as well, and to discuss ways and means of making the results available to all, so that anyone who wished could adopt this humane diet with confidence.
The first Vegan Society was founded in February of that year in England and a newsletter was circulated to members. This was replaced in the summer of 1946 by the quarterly magazine, The Vegan, which is still published. More and more humanitarians joined, with varying degrees of knowledge and experience. Occasionally, enthusiasm was greater than either, and during the next few years some of these pioneers developed symptoms of diet deficiencies and a few suffered much both physically and socially.
But it is as a direct result of these selfless pioneers that today vegans can embark on this wonderful adventure in compassionate living without fear, and are accepted as (almost) “normal” citizens. Since that time, vegans from many other lands have joined with those in the British Isles, and in 1960 the American Vegan Society was formed in Malaga, New Jersey, publishing Ahimsa magazine. As might be expected, close coöperation exists between the two societies.
Veganism has always stressed the need for sound nutrition as well as humane diet, the importance of soil conservation and the correct long-term use of the land so that our heirs should not find this precious heritage eroded, scorched, or leached of the essential minerals so necessary for a full and healthy life. Of course, vegans rely upon natural methods (pure food, fresh air, sunshine, exercise, etc.) rather than using vaccines and serums to retain a sound, healthy body and mind. Also, the contamination of water with sewage, industrial wastes, or the addition of fluorides, etc., is not, in the vegan view, in the best interests of the individual or the community.
The use of pesticides and of artificial fertilizers is opposed to vegan principles, and veganic gardening has proven them to be unnecessary once the correct balance of the soil has been established. Fruits and vegetables grown with the veganic methods can be as large and beautiful, and perfectly formed, as those grown under any other methods. (Note: This is not the same as “organic”, which may mean utilizing dried blood, bone meal, hood and horn meal, plus any other slaughterhouse waste products.)
Indeed, the slides illustrating Mr. O’Brien’s lecture at the Royal Society Of Arts in London proved that food produced by the Dalziel O’Brien veganic no-digging method can be large and beautiful, as well as more nutritious and flavorsome than that grown with “artificials” and smothered in poisonous insecticides. To vegans it has the added advantage of being humanely produced, owing nothing to the aforementioned slaughter products.
Because of their belief in Ahimsa (Sanskrit: Non-Killing, Non-Injuring, Harmlessness), vegans are naturally inclined toward pacifism, and many take an active part in opposing all kinds of aggressive activity, but veganism has no connection with any political party or system, national or international. Similarly, individual vegans may be deeply religious, perhaps devout Christians or disciples of one of many other faiths and creeds in this world, but this is not a requisite of veganism, which is an everyday, fundamental way of life concerned with living without hurting others. The hereafter may, or may not, solve all our problems; but what we do now certainly affects all those around us.
There are several roads to veganism and many individual views of it, but veganism is one thing and one thing only—a way of living which avoids exploitation whether it be of our fellow men, the animal population, or the soil upon which we all rely for our very existence. A few are attracted to veganism at first because they desire to improve or regain their health; others are more interested in the economic aspect which is of great important to everyone. Few non-vegetarians appreciate the fact that because much more vegan food (vegetables, fruit, grain, nuts, seeds) can be produced on an equal area of land in a given time, veganism if generally adopted would not only release man from animal husbandry and all its cruelty, but many fertile acres would be freed for the abundant production of food for direct human consumption. In such circumstances, even Britain could become a food exporting nation.
Think what this could mean to the “underdeveloped” (another term for starving) peoples of this world and what a contribution it would make towards world peace!
But by far the greatest number of vegans are those who have been moved by compassion to adopt this way of living without hurting. Most have been reared on the usual mixed diet with meat, eggs, milk, and fish possibly predominating, but may have been feeling for some time that this could not possibly be the best way to live. Then, perhaps a casual visit to a cattle market, or the sight of new-born calves being driven to slaughter (born and killed so that humans may drink the milk that Nature provided for calves) has caused their decision to be a party to such criminal practices no longer.
Sometimes a person is sincerely anxious to help in this resistance to cruel exploitation yet hesitates for fear of seeming “peculiar” to his friends, or even looking a bit “odd” without woolen cardigan or leather shoes. Thanks, however, to the pioneers, and to the efficient alternatives created by our present economic position, such fears can now be immediately dispelled. Another deterrent to a few, is the reluctance to refuse animal food when accepting hospitality. This discomfort is quite unnecessary; surely if any should be embarrassed it must be those who have not taken the trouble to provide good, humanely produced food for their guests and actually expect them to eat dead animals, or margarine made from the body of a whale which has been killed by shooting explosives into its insides. Our friends do not realize these things, so it is up to us to make the facts generally known.
Of course there are difficulties for the beginner, but these exist more in imagination than in fact, and tend to disappear quickly when the decision is made to go ahead anyway. It is not that veganism is so difficult—it is simplicity itself—but while society (and most of the world) is geared to animal exploitation, and world economics are built upon the generally accepted principle that might is right and the dumb have no rights, anything which tends to interfere with or bypass this is not encouraged. Also, veganism offers nothing for big business to exploit. Many people ask why we need to “go so far” and say that lacto-vegetarianism [still using dairy products, perhaps leather, etc.] is enough for the time being. Unfortunately, very few vegetarians indeed, in our experience, really appreciate the present rate of exploitation, not from lack of feeling but rather from lack of interest and understanding. Unlike vegans, a great many vegetarians are concerned chiefly with their health and are prepared for animals to be killed to produced leather, cheese, margarine, etc., so long as they do not actually eat the carcass.
In our opinion, it matters not one jot to the innocent creature whether it is to be slaughtered for human food, medicine, clothing, sport, or such luxuries as ivory ornaments, horn, bone or tortoiseshell knick-knacks, crocodile handbags, or exotic perfume. Sudden death in the prime of life, or the lingering agony of pain and starvation in a steel trap, must be as terrifying for the field-mouse, stoat or rabbit as for the hunted tiger, whale or stag. What at first may appear to be a quick death for one creature often means a slow starvation for her young ones as well. Sometimes it is the baby, or rather its skin, which is coveted by man. What the parent seal feels as she grieves over the bloody remains of her clubbed and quickly skinned pup, is probably no different from the anguish of the domestic cow on losing her newly-born calf. Anyone living near a farm or slaughterhouse has learned the pitiful cries of both mother and calf.
But the majority of persons, on first adopting a lacto-vegetarian diet, increase their consumption of dairy products and eggs which means that any relief of suffering for the animals exists more in hope than in fact. It is surprising to learn how many vegetarians are unaware that the rennet used to curdle many cheeses is obtained from the stomach of a freshly-killed, very young calf. Such cheeses are not, of course, even lacto-vegetarian; and we feel that these inconsistencies should be much more widely publicized.
If, however, we were to compare degrees of cruelty, it would be clearly seen that of all the “food animals” the cow suffers far more than beef cattle. For the whole of her life, this soft-eyed, docile animal is regarded simply as a milk machine. She is kept going with drugs and “steamed up” with hormones, injected with antibiotics, and still has to suffer the horrors of the slaughterhouse when she has at last become unprofitable.
Putting veganism into practice will require a little patience, some knowledge of nutrition (which is easily learned and is a most rewarding study) and perhaps a bit of help from other vegans who have acquired local knowledge about the availability in the area of pure foods, humane clothing and household products. Call on your Society for help and advice if your particular problem has not yet been dealt with in the magazine.
All made-up foods, i.e., biscuits, cakes, “ready-mixes”, pies, puddings, tinned soups, etc., are suspect. They are likely to contain at least one of the following: butter, milk (fresh or dried), honey, cheese, animal fats (including whale or seal oil which for some reason is not always included under this heading by food processors!), or eggs. [Additional ingredients as fractions from milk or from fat—usually animal—include whey and various lactates; numerous stearates and other fatty derivatives, etc.]
Apart from this, they are nutritionally inferior to the simpler fresh foods—fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains—partly because they have been cooked or otherwise processed and partly because they are also likely to contain some of the 800 recognized (but not recommended) food additives in the way of chemical dyes, improvers, softeners, preservatives, synthetic flavorings, bleaches, etc., etc., etc. A good working guide for a beginner is: “If you can’t eat it raw, leave it alone!” There are several obvious reasons why it may not be advisable for anyone on an “orthodox” diet to change overnight to all raw foods, but eating a fair proportion of these is a must for general fitness, as all forms of cooking destroy some of the nutrients in foods.
An occasional serving of good home-made soup, conservatively cooked vegetables, wholemeal bread, or potatoes baked and eaten with the jackets, will add variety and interest to the essential green salads, fresh fruit, nuts and grains (these last may be sprouted with ease and excellent results) which form the basis for a good vegan diet.
Catering for non-vegan guests will be a poser at first, but a little shopping around and experimenting will prove that savory rissoles, nut roasts, cakes, biscuits, tarts and pies in great variety can be produced from all-vegetable ingredients for friends who expect this type of food. This is another challenge and it gives us an excellent opportunity to demonstrate how attractive, flavorful and varied a meal can be made with absolutely no animal content.
Being entertained calls for a little tact and quite a lot of determination. It also necessitates explaining beforehand (as simply as possible) our eating requirements, if our hostess is not to feel embarrassed by our failure to appreciate the delicacies she will otherwise offer. However, everyone can produce some fruit and nuts without any difficulty and with the minimum of preparation, so we need not feel that we are being a nuisance. Nevertheless, on the first such occasion the hostess is bound to feel that you are “not getting enough to eat”. But your reassurance on this point can, if handled with diplomacy, add to her education. We find it best to answer all questions fairly briefly and leave it at that. This invariably creates more interest and further questions, which enable us to sow a few seeds without listeners feeling they are being “preached to”.
But veganism is by no means concerned only with food; vegans deplore the slaughter or exploitation of any creature for any reason:
FOOD—Meat, fish, poultry, eggs, milk, butter, cheese, cream, lard, honey, and all made-up foods containing any of these;
CLOTHING—Wool, leather, silk, reptile skins, etc.;
ADORNMENT—Fur, feathers, pearls, ivory, etc.;
TOILETRIES—Soaps, cosmetics and creams containing animal fats and oils, lanolin [wool fat] and perfume ingredients obtained from animals under grossly cruel conditions;
HOUSEHOLD GOODS—Hair and wool rugs and carpets, woolen blankets, feather pillows, brushes and brooms made of hair; oils, greases, polishes, etc., that include animal fats in the ingredients;
SPORTS—Hunting, racing, shooting, fishing, etc.;
AMUSEMENTS—Circuses and all acts which include performing animals or birds; zoos wherein naturally free creatures are imprisoned—national parks and wildlife preserves are so much better and more rewarding for all concerned;
MEDICINES—Vaccines, serums, etc., made from animals, not forgetting that millions of animals are used yearly for “testing” all kinds of drugs as well as shampoos and “beauty products”.
This may seem a formidable list but it only goes to show to what great extent we have grown to rely on animal-based substances and the wholesale exploitation of every poor creature from whom man can extract a profit. However, for all the above there are humane alternatives. Even the fine artist-brushes are now being produced of synthetic materials.
The Vegan lists foods and other items guaranteed by the makers to be quite free of any ingredient of animal origin, and these lists are revised frequently.
Aside from immediate effects, vegans consider this way of life to be no less than a duty to future generations. It will take many ages at the present rate of progress to undo all the results of past wrongs, if indeed this is ever possible; but whatever our actions, it is our heirs even more than we who will reap the results (good or bad) of what we do today, tomorrow, and the next day, until we leave them—what? A desert, a conflagration, or a garden of plenty?
The decision is yours and mine."
source:
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/
Gary L. Francione
EVA BATT, 1908 – 1989
In 1954, Eva had a shattering first-hand experience of the practice of separating cow and calf which is central to commercial milk production, and as a result became vegan and joined The Vegan Society.
"...a taste for meat in no way justifies the violation of a moral principle. Our conduct merely demonstrates that despite what we say about the moral significance of animal interests, we are willing to ignore those interests whenever we benefit from doing so–even when the benefit is nothing more than our pleasure or convenience."
~ Gary L. Francione | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/1/2009 8:37:36 PM | ^^^ I get it now. People who are vegan are smug and self-righteous. Also, self-contradicting and ignorant.
Live any lifestyle you want. The need to preach to others that your lifestyle is better than theirs for whatever reason is the essence of arrogance. Get over yourself.  | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/1/2009 8:50:43 PM | ...and never take advice from your 'friends' on any issue , especially whether you should tuck into a steak or a salad ... preferably do both and then if you care about such things as other peoples' opinions you are covered whichever way you turn . The advice , unlike the kindness , of strangers is a matter for your own conscience not theirs . One is not necessarily more ethical or smarter for heeding others' preferences . Moral ? No I don't think this is a moral issue ...I'm not quite sure what moral issue is involved ... we do have teeth that are made for ripping at meat and for those of a rabbit like disposition , there's always lettuce . Either way it's between you and any conscience you may have . | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 9:11:41 AM |
Live any lifestyle you want. The need to preach to others that your lifestyle is better than theirs for whatever reason is the essence of arrogance. Get over yourself
Great quote, In fact I think it should be added to the list below:
Slavery was good for the slaves; the slaveowners took on the burden of caring for the interests of inferior beings, seeing that they would be fed, clothed and given religious instruction.
Slavery was vital for the continuance of a superior Southern lifestyle which emphasized good manners and graciousness; they did not want to become like the fast-paced, money-grubbing North.
Biblical references show God approves slavery: e.g. Israelites, "God's chosen people," were slaveholders; Christ never condemned it; Paul supported it.
All men are not created equal: the black race is inferior; thus, blacks are better off as property of superior whites who ensure their subsistence.
Slaves are content with slavery, for their masters ensure they're fed, clothed and taught Christian values: comparatively, Southern slaves are better off than many of the immigrant workers in Northern factories who are confined in unhealthy workplaces for long hours.
Slavery is the key to national prosperity-for both the North and the South: cotton produced in the South is a major U.S. export to Europe; thus, if the Southern economy is tampered with, the big industrial cities of the North would collapse.
Slavery enabled the founding of the American Republic: four out of the first five American presidents were slaveholders from Virginia, and George Washington owned as many as 300 slaves over his lifetime
Live any lifestyle you want. The need to preach to others that your lifestyle is better than theirs for whatever reason is the essence of arrogance. Get over yourself. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 9:52:57 AM | ^^^^
I agree with the jist of what you wrote but... there still needs to be room to discuss lifestyle as some are clearly more ethical than others. ex. Slave owner's lifestyle clearly not as ethical as egalitarian lifestyle. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:31:50 AM | Alright let me jump in here and say, first I was once a vegan. Not because of some belief that it is somehow "wrong" to eat meat but, because I highly disagree with modern conventional farming practices. Well I continued not eating any animal products, I ate a diet laid out by nutritionists and slowly I got sicker and sicker until, I started passing out. I was taken to the hospital and they ran all sorts of blood test. Vitamin levels normal everything seemed to be in order. The doctors were baffled.
They then asked me what I have changed lifestyle wise looking for whatever they could. I told them I became a vegan within the year, the doctor said try eating some meat and see if it helps.
Sure enough after that no more passing out. Now I eat some organic free range meat, about 2-4 times a month and never had that problem again. I asked the doctor how this could be and he told me there are some studies that suggest that people of my blood type O- have this issue sometimes. He said he is unsure as to the why of it but, it is what fixed the issue.
Now let's talk about this sanely shall we? Life feeds on life. It matters not one iota if you are killing a plant and eating it or killing an animal. To me what matters is that you honor what you eat and treat it decently while it is alive. You are honoring the things you eat for it truly even scientifically speaking becomes a part of you after this. After your body breaks down the food it takes those parts and makes new parts and repairs old ones out of it.
As far as the group PETA goes. Well I would not call them terrorists per se but, they are extremists for certain. I think the word terrorist is far too overused.
For the people quoting Gandhi do note that Gandhi experimented with eating meat, do know that Gandhi also said, it is far worse of an offense for a vegetarian to criticize a meat eater than it is for one to consume meat.
For those whom say meat eaters are evil/amoral and vegetarians are somehow moral/saints POPPYCOCK!
Now that said there are issues I do agree with PETA on.
We should not be abusing animals in the way the farming industry does. ie putting them in cages stacked on top of each other, chopping off their beaks and, to never let them live their normal natural lives and serve their natural functions, overcrowding them and making them stand in their own feces, injecting hormones, other chemicals, mucking around with their genetics, feeding them things unhealthy for them to eat etc.
As far as the people whom wish to look at certain traits of humans and claim we were never intended to eat meat at all. More poppycock.
Humans are omnivores, this does not mean we always HAVE to eat meat but, it means we CAN eat both.
It also means that it is not healthy to ONLY consume meat.
One trait the people always forget to point out is, that all vegetarian mammals have eyes that can see behind them since, they are a prey animal and all hunters have eyes that look straight forward. Which eyes do you have?
Humans are a hunter get over it!
There are some few people who should never eat meat as well, just as there are some like myself whom MUST consume it.
Look everyone is unique. I know this goes counter to your ideas you may have been fed about humans but, it is a fact.
In this case I would say please DO stand up for animals not being abused and DO fight the systems of farming being practiced because they are outright only being used to make more profit and do not benefit either the consumer nor the animals they consume on the health level. In fact these practices are a threat to both the health of the animals some of us eat as well as the pollution problems and other issues they cause, and of course this will have health ramifications of those whom not only consume them but, live near the farms.
I would ask my vegan friends to not be so judgmental on people eating the animals but, try to bring them to a better way that takes into account the proper care and treatment of the animals during their life.
I believe most people would get behind a campaign to ensure farmers are not abusing the animals we are going to eat because what we eat becomes a part of us. I do not wish to have a sad abused animal for dinner. I want a healthy happy one to become part of me.
I do not think any meat consumer would disagree with a stance that called for better treatment. If this group continues to criticize people for consuming meat they will just continue to alienate themselves and the good issues they do bring up will easily be swept under the rug as just another lunatic claim.
I have noticed though that a lot of my vegan friends are quite angry and depressed people I wonder if lack of B vitamins have anything to do with that. | |
|
| |
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 11:14:18 AM | I think the point of not eating retards and babies (even though some cultures do), is the same reason we do not eat cats and dogs. Not because they are better or smarter than cows, but because we form deep relationships with them. The same reason you might punch some stranger in the street for spitting on you, but not you mother.
To be honest, and totally take this out of the philosophical context, there is no complicated agenda or moral justification to the consumption of meat. It is something carried over from times and places where meat was the only food source in enough abundance to sustain us through desolate winter months. Why do we continue to do it? Because it is delicious, nutritious, and available. Is it unethical? I would like to defend myself and say yes, but somewhere deep down, i see a cow on the side of the road with a native american headdress on sheding a single tear, and it gives me pause. | |
|
| |
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:37:06 PM |
Oh come on Dukky- you call me out on my straw man arguments, but you let Willow go full force with his own?
The only way you can claim my comment is a straw man argument is if you are claiming that humans suffer more, or feel more pain, than animals, otherwise you can’t claim straw man because I was comparing suffering of human animals to suffering of other animals.
So lets see, how do we test to see if humans really do suffer more than animals. How about we place a human and a pig side by side and shove a cattle prod up their a$$. I am willing to bet the pig squeals louder.
If I had a choice of either being born a slave, or a pig in a factory farm, I would choose the slave hands down. | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 3:33:44 PM |
If I had a choice of either being born a slave, or a pig in a factory farm, I would choose the slave hands down.
I was born a pig and I'll die a pig!...
(I've always felt that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.) | |
|
| Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 9:58:45 PM |
Great quote, In fact I think it should be added to the list below:
Slavery was good ...
This is quite a perfect example of what I mean. The arrogance and hubris of people who think they've affected a morally superior stance by doing something just a little bit different. Here, you equate my telling someone else to stop proselytizing an alternative lifestyle as condoning slavery. Get a life.
Let me spell it out for you. Human beings are apes. Apes are onmivores. If you don't like that, write your god or your genes. Don't bother me. I have no time for someone who thinks it's wrong to eat something merely because it has eyes. You kill to eat just like the rest of us.
Anyway, you had a chance to post something intelligent but didn't. Welcome to my Bozo Bin. | |
|
|
| Page 12 of 14
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 |
|
Home
login 
