I do not argue that it is unethical to use sentient beings as a commodity. My argument is that cattle, pigs and poultry can hardly be considered sentient. Sentient beings are capable of higher mental functions such as forethought, planning and self awareness. I have not seen any evidence of this in any of the livestock I have ever observed.

You can't exclude everyone that has a difference or the organization eventually looses all its members.

We are just too clever a species to not be able to find loopholes in just about everything.

I just think that you can't assume an organization is inherently good just by looking at its rules as they are written on paper. There are the written rules and the unwritten rules...

e sure to develop a good sense of discernment and judgement of your own, and also a willingness to stand against the group if necessary, or to leave the group, in the case it drifts toward unethical and immoral ways.

...And start a new group! I think that new groups need to be started!

Here is my name for a group:...

If you agree that it is ethical for sentient beings to be used or abused by those that possess power over them, then you by default have to extend the same moral argument to humans.

Vegetarian foods are coming available

Being raised on a small mixed farm and having a pig as a pet I can tell you that pigs are more intelligent than dogs.

I used to hike in Northern British Columbia and came across a small herd of cattle grazing in the wild ranglands. Upon seeing me, they immediately made a formation with the young cows in the middle of a circle and the older ones facing outward in a defensive posture. These were cows bred for slaughter, so it would seem it was a learned behavior.

But don’t take my word for it. The vast scientific evidence clearly shows that animals, including livestock, are capable of higher mental functions such as forethought, planning and self awareness.

intelligence is not the same as sentience.

Could you pleas provide some examples of the type of experiments used? I know that I have seen male turkeys who spent hours trying to intimidate their own reflection in a patio door, which would seem to indicate a profound lack of self-awareness.

even vegetables I have read somewhere scream in pain as they are cut or cooked

Granted, but intelligence is not the same as sentience.

even vegetables I have read somewhere scream in pain as they are cut or cooked

Dreams on the other hand... when your dog is lying down sleeping and then starts whining and moving his legs like he's running... he's having a dream.

The aren't self aware like we are, they don't think like we do, I agree with this.

A group of female animals (cows) herded and controlled by a male animal (bull) of that species for breeding purposes. Such behaviour is exhibited by bovids including cattle and buffalo as well as moose, elephants, seals, sea lions, sea elephants.

I agree that intelligence is not the same as sentience. But please...correct me if I am wrong...sentience means "the ability to feel", right? To feel both pleasure and pain?

In science fiction, an alien, android, robot, hologram, or computer who is described as sentient is usually treated as a fully human character, with similar rights, qualities, and capabilities as any other character. Foremost among these properties is human level intelligence (see above), but sentient characters also typically display desire, will, consciousness, ethics, personality, insight, and many other human qualities. Sentience is being used in this context to describe an essential human property that brings all these other qualities with it. The words "sapience", "self-awareness", and "consciousness" are used in similar ways in science fiction.

The word sentient is often confused with the word sapient, which is essentially a confusion between simple perception or sensation and intelligence or thinking.

Keep applying with the zoo Cyke you'll get the permit to have your harem one day. You might have to move to a more liberal country (aka Sweden) to full enjoy your harem however.

word, you all know what we're getting at.

No, I really don't it is why I ask questions...

It is my dream to someday have a harem...

However to make a claim that when a dog squeals in pain it is not real pain, it is just instinct, robotic, is just false.

In fact, I would suggest that the only reason you are born human is luck of the draw. You could just as easily have been born a dog, or a pig.

You don’t torture another human because then you are supporting torture, which may be done to you.

My* dog dreams of catching that damned rabbit!

Just instinct.

Are you saying you instinctively want a harem?

Unfortunately religion does not support this logical morality because Christian religion states that all life was put on the earth for the disposal of humans.(animals have no soul).

Religion has done humanity a disservice with these beliefs.

I felt compelled to point out that distinction...however, we seem to be debating from a similar point of view...but I feel I must ask...do you eat meat?

Sentient beings are capable of higher mental functions such as forethought, planning and self awareness. I have not seen any evidence of this in any of the livestock I have ever observed.

Actually you are refering to sapience. Sentience is the ability to sense your suroundings. That means that everything thats alive has some semblence of senteince.

Ever had pineapple slices marinated in spiced rum, brown sugar, and cinnamon barbecued?