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Posted: 8/29/2009 12:46:56 PM | Personally, I have to agree 100% with everything Junipermoon said. 
I do not understand any pan predjudice. Why must everyone be forced into cookie-cutter images and lives? This is the main issue with intolerance today. Strip humans of life and make them brainless Hollywood acceptable, moral-less robots and it seems most people would be happy. What is up with that?
I embrace diversity in ALL things and sadly this current environment has killed off the most diverse cultures, people, animals and plants. They get mass murdered, mass uprooted, mass reeducated and mass rehabilitated. So many are thrown into mental systems for daring to be different, or who they really are. This current world culture has thrown millions into an identity crisis. Few people are tolerant these days. Beliefs about the past being so homongenized is ridiculously false. People sit on their high horse and do not have a clue what they are spewing as right.
I mourn all of the diversity we have lost.
SS | |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 1:03:19 PM | I must also agree with SmilingSalmon and Junipermoon,
Cultural diversity is a great part of what has made our cultures evolve and become more interesting. I went to a concert last evening where the two young ladies and man from out of Austin, TX provided much amazing music with gypsy influence in many of their songs. Just as the english language and others are a mix of thousands of cultural influences, so goes music, liturature, and the arts.
Those fearful ones, as witnessed here and many other forums, forget that their "purity" of their culture is an illusion. We are all mutts from the same momma from southern Africa long ago. A few dozen or hundred generations of inbreeding for certain familiar physical and cultural traits does not wipe out the myriad of influences that temporarily created those cultures. Everything is in flux on this blue ball in the cold universe. The sooner we figure out were all earthlings, all on this same life support system and interdependent for survival, the greater the odds we may survive. | |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 1:17:58 PM | So excellently said, Earthpuppy.
Thank You | |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 1:20:56 PM | Easy to say when your culture is only 200 years old and is a mish mash of other cultures.
Try having one thats over 2000 and a falling birth rate.
you ask the eu and Romania for help to deal with illegals and roma and they do nothing.
Finally Europeans are waking up.
Italy signed an agreement with libya to stop the illegals. | |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 8:23:18 PM | My people are gypsys by ethnicity--we all have jobs, though, and aren't grifters. We have "active" gypsies here in USA, by the way. Often associated with stealing money from old ladies by saying they'll roof their houses, then taking off without doing the work. It's sickening. Also siding scams. There are what, 15-20? well-known gypsy families (extended) in the USA?
Anyhoo, any group that refuses to assimilate into a society is going to have problems. I remember when Sweden started getting all the Muslim emigres, and it caused some pretty big cultural rifts. But it all settles down within a generation or two, right? Similar to the Pakinstanis and Indians in UK. At first, it was a big problem, now the young ones are just Brits, right?
The ones that assimmilate are ok, so it's not REALLY a racial thing--it's a cultural thing. | |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 2:35:50 AM | i have too always been curious about gypsies they have a very different lifestyle
the way i see it, is if you google " how to catch a wild pig" it gives an interesting concept
the gypsies live outside of civilization to avoid that ,
one thing i've always found curious is they try to stay to their own , so i wonder how do they populate when they have such restrictions , i mean think about it , assuming the men and or women go into the city to meet someone how do they find someone to follow their path and live away from the city ,sure they come in to the city to sell and get what they need but other then that they stay away
so how do they find mates and have children? i've questioned whether gypsies truly keep it in the family , im positive there are hundreds of gypsies so they can avoid crossing the same genes but you have to wonder
i have a question for you NEBULA22 , you say you camped with them, did you notice anything? do they conversate about anything and everything like we do in the forums , do they talk bout their way of life and everyday occurences like how construction workers talk about what freeway they took home lol , or did you do most of the talking and they played music to fill the silence around a campfire | |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 7:41:46 PM | They are no different than everyone else.
They talk politics , religion , freedom and everything everyone else is worried about.
They too are worried about what's going on in the world and how this world is being destroyed.
They do marry outside their race as everyone else does.
Like others , they don't approve of cheats but are aware that there will always be bad people where ever you go.
Did you know that pan handlers can make more money than a ripoff artist makes?
Why do people live in houses they have to spend their lives working to afford?
If you live in the woods and pay no rent , then what money you make is yours to keep.
You can also afford to go south for the winter.
Think about that for a minute.. | |
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Posted: 8/31/2009 8:07:03 AM |
Message: Easy to say when your culture is only 200 years old and is a mish mash of other cultures.
Try having one thats over 2000 and a falling birth rate.
you ask the eu and Romania for help to deal with illegals and roma and they do nothing.
Finally Europeans are waking up.
Italy signed an agreement with libya to stop the illegals.
Not being funny or anything but what is a proud Italian doing in Austraila ?
If you feel free to swan off to Oz then why can't gypies feel the same way and come to Italy ? The Roma by their nature and culture are prone to waunder around so I am glad the old girl Madonna spoke up.I wish she would do more like fund an orphange or something there.There is chronic poverty in Romania .Boris Becker devotes a fare bit there .
Its a disgrace how the gypies are treated in the eastern EU countries .We here are better but not by much.
Further.....Libya is not the source of Italy's illegals .Its sub-saharan Africans and you know that or should.Didn't they have shoot outs and all sorts with the ruddy Mafia in soutern Italy over drug distribution? Blocked off the highways in and out. | |
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Posted: 8/31/2009 9:29:41 AM | Dual citizen mate, with family in both.
unlike the gypsies we assimilated, are law abiding citizens.
Libya is or was a big source of italys illegals, where do u think they bought passage in those deathtrap boats to get to Lampedusa?
You should be voting for the BNP instead. | |
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Posted: 8/31/2009 12:03:53 PM |
Message: Dual citizen mate, with family in both.
unlike the gypsies we assimilated, are law abiding citizens.
Oh really ? Who says that Italians in Oz are law abiding ?
You? Not being funny again but are you assimilated and living like the aboriginals ??
As for law abiding...pull the other one.Who runs the Mafia everywhere they go ?
In every country that has Italians has Mafia making any little scam gypies can do to be small fry .You wanted to talk stereotyping so Italy is the better example...!
Libya is or was a big source of italys illegals, where do u think they bought passage in those deathtrap boats to get to Lampedusa?
Well this is news to me.Since when has Libya been known as a sub-Saharan population ? It may be news to you but sub-Saharan Africans pass through the Arab countries to reach Italy and why should the Arabs stop them ?? If you don't want illegals ...why should Libya have them ?
You should be voting for the BNP instead.
Not a chance .BTW....it wasn't too long ago that Italians were known as "w o g s" in Oz and now you are looking down your nose at other people? Peter Andre who is a Greek born in England tells of regular beatings and racists chantings against him in OZ while at school .He was glad to return to the UK.
You ought to think back and realise that racism could be directed at you next just as quick as it was in previous years . | |
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Posted: 8/31/2009 12:59:40 PM | Perhaps the stereotype continues in many areas because of the activities of certain Gypsy families.
Each and every year - usually starting around this time of the year, bands of self-identified Gypsies run up and down the West Coast like a storm through town. They often hit homes that appear clean, yet a little run-down, with elderly occupants. They offer to seal roofs, fill in driveway potholes or most commonly - seal/topcoat driveways against the oncoming fall weather.
If the unlucky, but greedy (looking for a "good deal") victim agrees to the apparent reasonably-priced "service", they'll appear, collect the fee - almost always demanding cash, then proceed to spray USED MOTOR OIL over the victim's asphalt, spreading it around evenly with brooms. Then they're gone - never to be seen again. When the rain does finally arrive and there's a long, multicolored stream of oil-contaminated runoff from your driveway, you also stand a good chance of being fined for environmental violations.
There's also usually a rash of "short-changing" of retail stores at the same time - where "customers" come in and start to confuse the cashiers with large bills and last-minute purchase-swapping chaos, often leaving with more cash than they had when they walked in.
By the time these most-notable scams hit the news media, they're gone, hundreds of miles away and they've hit dozens of other victims in the menatime. The losses incurred by most victims is really only attributable to their own greed. However, it doesn't excuse the scammers, who only prolong the image of their heritage. If there's a "stereotype" to be corrected, the scammers really are the only ones who can do the correcting. When they stop performing their usual "jobs", which amounts to collecting as much cash for nothing as possible, maybe others will begin to see them in a different light.
I've dealt with them a few times. They rarely carry ID and when they do, I have doubts as to whether or not the names on them are real. As I said earlier, Gypsy Driveway Season is fast-approaching. (I wondered about the timing of this thread)Beware of fast-talking swindlers carrying buckets of used motor oil. Ask for IDs, demand and record contractor's licenses (the scammers won't have one), take license plate numbers and vehicle descriptions. If in doubt, call the cops and let them deal with the scammers. | |
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Posted: 8/31/2009 1:29:30 PM | Message: Dual citizen mate, with family in both.
unlike the gypsies we assimilated, are law abiding citizens.
Oh really ? Who says that Italians in Oz are law abiding ?
You? Not being funny again but are you assimilated and living like the aboriginals ??
As for law abiding...pull the other one.Who runs the Mafia everywhere they go ?
In every country that has Italians has Mafia making any little scam gypies can do to be small fry .You wanted to talk stereotyping so Italy is the better example...!
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coming from a Brit?
How many countries did you "colonise" and exploit?
quite a few I seem to remember.
Any injustice done to aboriginals was done by the English who colonised Aus.
Not by the Italians and Greeks who came after ww2. They have simply assimilated into anglo Aus.
As for the mafia, well thats a southern/sicilian thing.
But i dont begrudge them, Italians werent let into America and Aus to share the spoils.
Both countries needed to populate and needed worker bees.
But some wanted a piece of the wasp action and keep some Italianess.
Plus the government has cooperated with the mafia in both countries when its suited them.
Libya has been paid some money to stop it and crack down on the people smugglers.
Funny how the right is getting stronger all over Europe huh?
Wait till the next UK election the BNP will do well.
Im not looking down my nose, just worried about my culture.
Proper Romanians are related to us as u know. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 2:26:06 AM |
How many countries did you "colonise" and exploit?
quite a few I seem to remember.
Any injustice done to aboriginals was done by the English who colonised Aus.
Not by the Italians and Greeks who came after ww2. They have simply assimilated into anglo Aus.
As for the mafia, well thats a southern/sicilian thing.
But i dont begrudge them, Italians werent let into America and Aus to share the spoils.
Both countries needed to populate and needed worker bees.
But some wanted a piece of the wasp action and keep some Italianess.
Its precisely because I am a Brit that I know people will be people and seek pastures new.The Romans and Greeks sought pastures new.The Spanish,Dutch and French.The Russians .Felt free to sally forth,take over and rule other people and YOU as an Italian were no different and not exempt.You can keep your Little Italy back in Italy if you are worried about your culture at home.
You have "family" in two countries because Oz is good to you.Maybe the Roma have family in Rome and in Romania.If you were fully assisimilated.....you would not be thinking about Italy so thats your angle out the window.Peter Andre is 34 I think and thats probably your age range.You may think you are accepted and now look down on others but the thing is that Greeks and Italians are and were and may still be known as w o g s .I am saying its wrong if they are but you are wrong for covering up your racism with pretending to be goody two shoes and accepted.The Mafia is one of the biggest criminal firms in the world .What wouldn't they do ? Drug distribution,protection rackets,hits etc etc.
Thats okay is it ?
Libya has been paid some money to stop it and crack down on the people smugglers.
Funny how the right is getting stronger all over Europe huh?
Wait till the next UK election the BNP will do well.
Well we will see.The right did well in France years ago under LePen and it turned out to be a protest vote because the next time it disappeared .The French came out in the streets to protest against LePen .In Britain the protest was to not vote at all because of upset about MP's expenses.The BNP profited but in real terms their vote was down on their highest vote which was in 2004.In 2004...the BNP polled 800,000,nationwide.
Britain has 60 million people so you can then work out the maths. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 3:08:09 AM | We had a group of Roma gypsies (about 70) come to Ireland illegally... They set up their tents at the side of the motorway. From early morning they would beg and cause chaos amongst the traffic. What sickened us the most is how they used their children for the begging (babies in prams in freezing cold conditions)... They were at all the junctions heading into town...
Not only were these illegal, they were unskilled and had no intention of working... They claimed they came to Ireland for a better life, but rather than set up a proper home for their children, they sent there begging money home and more and more arrived over the course of a few months... Their little camp site spread. In the end, the Government intervened, gave them some money and a flight home... The site had to be fumigated, trees, plants and flowers destroyed from faeces... It has taken almost a year now for that patch of land to re-grow, but there are still health hazard warnings forbidding people to walking in or around.
One of my collegues from work reported to his landlord about constant coming and going in the apartment upstairs from him... When the landlord contact the owner of the property, he found that the gypsy couple he had let his apartment out to had well over 20 people living there. After their eviction, his was left with 1000's euros worth of damage... Having to replace everything... They just moved on and probably did the same to another.
Even the Romanians living and working in Ireland hate these gypsies because what kind of culture is about begging, shitting, cursing and sitting on their lazy arses all day drinking and smoking?
It's taken years of integration and education to have our own travellers start to educate their children and earn a living... Why the hell would we want to go back to those days and start taking on Romanias??? | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 3:14:13 AM | Do you know what gypsies do? how they live?
Its easy to be off with the pixies and say come take everything when its not your country or your culture.
The Romanian government has called italy crazy and Italians too nice for letting the gypsies get away with what they do.
Its not like the gypsies arrived in Europe last year, they have been around for hundreds of years, about time they stopped the bs.
Maybe India will take them back ? lol.
Peter Andre was hated cos his music was crap lol.
hes cypriot i think. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 10:44:55 AM |
They have strong family values and work ethic despite the stereotypes that have been plaguing them for centuries.They have deep rooted religious beliefs as well as fascinating cultural beliefs and traditions.
The first time that the present of gypsies in America was brought to my attention it was on a Law and Order show. Until that time I had never actually associated gypsies with our modern day much less modern day America.
Need I say that since it was a Law and Order show the Gypsies were portrayed in a negative light. It was a murder involving a Gypsy car theft ring of some sort, so a double negative representation at that. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 11:13:34 AM | | I don't know that I have ever met any Gypsies/ Romas , to form a true personal opinion of them (in so far as it's possible in any case to ever form a true opinion of an entire ethnic group based on the few we actually meet...). In America frankly we never hear much of them. In Italy though, last time I was there, they were having problems with Romanian Gypsies, in Rome especially. And there was some sort of deportations from the country which occurred, I believe, a small number, due to the fact that some of them were there illegally and had been involved in crimes. Public sentiment at the time seemed somewhat tense against the Romanians. A Romanian man (a Gypsy/ Roma I believe) was assaulted by some Romans after an Italian woman was murdered, I think was what happened, and the Italian gov't then also tore down some 'shanty town' that was full of illegal Romanians (mostly Gypsies ) on the outskirts of the city. This was about , late 2007 I would say. It's an ongoing issue I'm sure; seemed almost like the issue with Mexican (and other) illegal immigration here , basically. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 3:10:47 PM | I clearly remember in my childhood, the prejudice among my peers toward Italians, Poles, and Catholic Irish. The advent of John F. Kennedy becoming president was every bit as significant at the time as Obama breaking the race barrier for that office today.
Waps and Pollacks were particularly targeted for sterotypes, along with our native American neighbors. My maternal grandmother sat us down after church one Sunday to chastise us children for having Winnebago, Chippewa, Lakota Sioux, and Menomenee friends, using precisely the language that Frankster uses in his prejudice against Roma Gypsies. Roma Gypsies are just one subset of a number of traveling cultures.
The Irish, Italilians, Chinese, Slavs and many others suffered under the same prejudices and language as they came to the new worlds to begin assimilation. My Norskie kin, along with Swedes and Finns to this day have a dedicated joke genre used to denigrate them by the Know Nothings of the day then and now. Ole and Lena were my great grandparents...Check out Ole and Lena jokes to see how it still prevails.
It's just ironic as hell, that an Italian, living in Oz, knows so much about how all Roma live in other nations, and has become the oppressor instead of the oppressee, and fails to see the cycle. The Israelis are another group that jumped the gulf from victim to oppressor in short order. We're all capable of it, given enough fanning of the flames, and copious amounts of disinformation and propoganda. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 5:18:50 PM | More ironic that you are comparing Italy to Israel.
rather a long bow to draw.
disinformation and propaganda? Theyve always been like that, its nothing new.
Go there and see for yourself.
Oppresor? yaright. | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 5:44:32 PM |
The Native Americans would still be living free today if it was not for the American government making it illegal for them to do so.
Does anyone know what a reservation is and why the Indians were forced to live on them.?
The Gypsies could have it worse than they have it now ,,
They could be forced to live on reservations where food will not grow while most of them starve to death or die of poor health like what happened to Native Americans after the europeans came here.
 You are a very wise one, a little harsh when it comes to the ladies.. but wise none the less . I like your posts  | |
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Posted: 9/1/2009 6:58:50 PM | "More ironic that you are comparing Italy to Israel.
rather a long bow to draw.
disinformation and propaganda? Theyve always been like that, its nothing new.
Go there and see for yourself.
Oppresor? yaright."
Peas in a pod as far as fascist/racist nations go. I find it rather interesting that they were so united on Durban II so early. Israel has it's favorite oppressed, as does Italy. Kinda like Alabama and Mississippi on these shores.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1236269355448&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull | |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 1:41:47 AM | Italy doesnt have a gaza.
Nor kill anyone.
Nor have the US in its pocket.
Youre looking for stuff that isnt there.
So the right is in power now, just like how it was for the last 8 years there.
Not like the American right thank heavens. | |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:01:03 AM | Peter Andre was racially abused in schools in Austraila as a teenager .He is Greek and was born in London .He was beaten up as were all olive skinned folk like Itaians and Greeks etc. He was not abused because he is a crap singer .These were not accepted as white Europeans .There is still a debate on that.
And as newer immigrants head into Austraila these same folk like Italians or Greeks then turn on and look down on others although Peter Andre does not at all.
If we link crime to a group just because we don't like that group-thats stereotyping a whole lot of people but either way,you cannot find an organisation on par with the criminal activities of the Mafia to link with any other ethnic group.A few years ago a baby was kidnapped in Australia.This baby was Italian and her father had been killed in a in house Mafia hit the year before. Now what kind of behaviour is that ?
All those people....were Italians born in Australia but they didn't leave the Mafia back in Italy .Should we stereotype and label all Italians as we label Roma gypsies ?
A Brit girl student was killed in Italy by an American,Italian and an African .So....?
Polish people get abused here....and they are usually blond and blue-eyed but Polish people have been attacked yet EU regulations permit their UK entry.I am saying that this stupid business of why are you here etc is not good for anybody.Crime is wrong on all fronts and is a separate issue .
A Latvian or Polish guy abucted,raped and killed an Indian teenager in London about 3 years ago.He fled the country and we had to bring him back here to stand trial.Now...are all Polish guys...rapists ? No they are not. Added to this but this UK born Indian teenagers parents were suspected in as much as stereotyping meant that Scotland Yard had to eliminate the fact of say the girl just running away from home due to strict parenting.All that time the girl was lying dead in bushes and the Polish guy made his escape.His friends turned him in.
For some mad reason these east Europeans love British girls particularly white and Indian ones.They will touch them up on buses and approach them very brazenly which is offensive in the extreme but you still can't label them all as perverts.We had Romanians begging in the street years ago and it was a pain but its been eliminated by the police.
Irish tinkers used to go door to door ,years ago too.
Illegal Ghanians have been deported from Canada 9 times and still got back in and scammed millions from Toronto.Do we label Ghana ? Done the same here too with our Post Office .
Every nation on earth has some problem with some group but lets not pat ourselves on the back and look down on others.Crime is another matter entirely but you can't link the two unless you want the whole thing linked to you. as well .
I find Italians and Spanish people to be particularly racist towards anybody else unless you are olive skinned.They shout abuse at blacks quite openly and don't like WASP's .However they seek to identify with WASPS as in Australia. | |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 2:33:18 AM | All italians and spannish are olive skinned are they?
News to me.
Northern italians are white, many blondes there.
Same with some spannish too.
Theres the Russian mafia, pretty bad too, the triads, in England theres the aristocracy, big crooks them.
I dont have olive skin.
Italy is part of Europe, just a pity Europe makes some dumb decisions at times. | |
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Posted: 9/2/2009 8:11:00 AM |
They shout abuse at blacks quite openly and don't like WASP's
I never shout abuse at black people, never have or would, in fact I prefer them in most cases to WASP's, to be totally honest. | |
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