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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 8:47:16 AM |
I never shout abuse at black people, never have or would, in fact I prefer them in most cases to WASP's, to be totally honest.
I am sure that you as an individual never would but its common to do that in Italy and Spain .at football matches .They throw banana skins on the pitch and make monkey noises every time a black player touches the ball . You are American and thats different but whole families will sit and s in the stands while this goes on .
Mind you they also chant at people like Redondo and he is white.They call him Indian.
On the other hand the Spanish people are kinder and more accepting of all olive skinned peoples be they Arab or Indian or whatever.I have been on holidays to Spain and the bona fida Spanish will stop their car at the lights for an olive skinned girl (of any nationality.The ones with our group were Indian and the Spanish liked them) to cross over but not for some blond . | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 8:50:52 AM |
I dont have olive skin.
Italy is part of Europe, just a pity Europe makes some dumb decisions at times.
Your pic tells me olive and I have been to Italy numerous times .Shorter people too.There are blonds but they are northern or out the bottle.Either way olive skinned is the predominant colouring and while Europe makes some dumb decisions........some people like you should try being kinder since you can at any time be in those shoes.......again ! | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 10:21:38 AM | It's difficult if not impossible to identify the ethnic background of any European nowadays based on their coloring and height. Silly discussion, imo.
My impression from traveling in and living in Europe, and working with a lot of European people is that there is a lot of ethnic bias throughout Europe. I live in Austria and the Austrians don't like the Germans, though they are so close in culture and share the same language. Old patterns of thought and behavior die hard throughout Europe. As well, European countries are struggling with a huge influx of immigrants over the past couple of decades. They are having trouble absorbing these people into their culture and the immigrants have trouble assimilating. | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 11:40:52 AM | I am sure that you as an individual never would but its common to do that in Italy and Spain .at football matches .They throw banana skins on the pitch and make monkey noises every time a black player touches the ball . You are American and thats different but whole families will sit and s in the stands while this goes on .
Yes, this is objectionable and highly regrettable to say the least. A holdover of old Latin racism , part of which mentality (unfortunately) helped found much of the Americas (central and south) and left it imprinted with the legacy of terms such as 'mestizo', 'zambo', 'mulatto', 'criollo', 'peninsulare', etc....all basically terms trying to delineate who was closer to being 'of pure blood' ('purely' European) and who was 'mixed' with Indian and/or black slave.
In the 20', 30's, 40's, probably even into the 50's or early 60's, Italian immigrants to America for example were horrified and angered and they fought and/or fled when black Americans (whose ancestors had been here much much longer incidentally) moved around 'their' areas, and yet at the same time these Italian immigrants were often not the most highly desired neighbors in strictly WASP-American neighborhoods themselves. This goes on everywhere, throughout Europe, etc, as the poster above me just said.
Today, it's the Mexicans (oftentimes new immigrants themselves, or sons of immigrants) who fight fiercely , particularly in parts of southern California right now, to keep blacks, southeast Asians, etc, out of 'their' neighborhoods while at the same time ironically they themselves have also been discriminated against in varying degrees. Probably none of this will ever fully end, it is in our human nature to an extent I think. | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 1:33:39 PM | It must be our human nature
I'm one of those equal opportunity haters ~ if you're a criminal, a dirtbag, a lowlife, I want you locked up. Lowlifes come in all colors
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/2/2009 7:54:17 PM | | indigenous peoples are an endangered species... if you live off the land, you are a target | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/3/2009 8:36:46 AM | Would it not be a nicer world if more looked at the person versus their outer covering. There is usually so much more within than without.
Think about it the inside of a banana is so much better than what it looks to be.
As MLK so eloquently said
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.  | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/3/2009 11:18:44 AM | Of all the countries of Europe...Spain is the most visited for its sun,sea and sands but also its history and culture .The history of Spain is rich from its Islamic past....the palaces,mosques,paintings etc and from its Indian gypsy past which is alive and well in its music and dance ......the flamenco .
So what I am saying here ,is that at some point-the outsiders....gypsies became part of the rich fabric of Spain and we never realised.
http://www.marbellaguide.com/blog/spanish-gypsies/
Gitanos have greatly enriched Spanish culture with their contribution of Flamenco and finely handcrafted wares.
The Gitanos are from an ethnic group which calls itself Roma (also Rom). It is believed that gypsies migrated out of India and Pakistan (from Rajasthan and Punjab) into all parts of Europe around the eleventh century. The name Gitano comes from Egiptiano (Egyptian) in Spanish, because for many centuries it was thought their origins were in Egypt.
The Rom people speak the language of Romani (of Sanscrit origin) but after many centuries of nomadic living and assimilation into foreign countries the language is virtually non-existent today.
After losing their original Romani language, the Gitanos used Caló, a jargon with Spanish grammar and Romani vocabulary. Today, the majority of Gitanos use Spanish (Castillian and Andalus) as their primary language.
The Gitanos secretive and isolated existence (by choice) has always left them on the outside. They were severely persecuted and punished for wanting to sustain their customs and language as it has existed for thousands of years. For more than 300 years Gitanos had been forced to integrate with Spanish culture and completely abandon their culture and lifestyle.
Gitanos were required to marry non-gypsies, and they were denied their language and rituals, and were forbidden from traveling in groups of more than two. Gypsy dress, music and clothing were also banned. Thus gypsies were driven into a permanently submerged underclass from which they are still emerging today.
Within the Gitano community there is a very high level of illiteracy, ranging from children to adults and elders. Folklore, music and genealogy are passed down through the generations verbally in the form of spoken stories and songs (flamenco) within the tightly knit family units.
But as family members move away from the core family in search of earning a decent living. Many groups of Gitanos have also been forced into resettlements and others have abandoned the countryside for big cities. Since then they have experienced an increasing encroachment on their lifestyle by the non-Gypsies. This has led to the demise of gypsy traditions, language and customary ways of earning a living.
The Gitano population in Spain is around 500,000 with the largest concentration in Southern Spain. Gitano communities are abundant in parts of Seville, Granada, Jerez de la Frontera, Cadiz and Ronda, just to name a few.
As with all cultures, there is diversity within the culture. Many groups of gitanos still lead a very nomadic and isolated life from the rest of the Spaniards while others have settled and become prosperous shop owners of antiques and Spanish goods. Historically, they were excellent blacksmiths, coppersmiths, basket makers, horse traders and the like.
So, it is a logical step that they came to be owners of shops selling authentic Spanish goods. Many poorer Gitanos have given in to lives of crime and drugs in the big cities.
It is a shame that the general reputation of gitanos is that of thieves and beggars. The Gitanos in Spain are wonderfully friendly, talented, passionate and dedicated to family. Almost all Gitano communities (rich or poor) have one thing in common….they are an extremely tight group and really do not let to many outsiders in.
Holidays, parties, weddings, baptisms are usually only attended by other gitanos, family members from all parts of Spain. This way their customs really do stay within their world. The worst part about this is that this is what all outsiders really want to get a glimpse of…the foot stomping, joyous alegria of flamenco at its purest form….gypsy style!
It is impossible to write about gitanos without addressing Flamenco. Flamenco refers to a style of music and dance and is the expression of one culture, gitano. More than simply a type of folk music, flamenco embodies a complex musical and cultural tradition that dates back thousands of years.
Gypsies are believed to originally come from a caste of entertainers and musicians, and therefore, it seems inevitable that the gypsy communities of Andalucia became the custodians of a musical art form as rich, deep, and vigorous as flamenco. It is also likely that it grew out of the unique relationship of native Spanish, Moorish, and Gypsy cultures that existed in
Andalucia at the time.
Flamenco music and dance is dramatic and aggressive yet at the same time it is graceful and touching. Flamenco was driven by some of the same social forces that created American Blues music, those of cultural oppression. Flamenco, like the blues, has not always been eagerly accepted by the more conservative elements of society, perhaps because of its lyrics that often speak of oppression, persecution, incarceration and loneliness as well as passion and family.
Originally, flamenco consisted of just one person singing. Later, the musical style evolved and developed and integrated guitar, rhythmic hand clapping, finger snapping, percussion instruments (castenets and cajon) and dance. The dancer’s feet are considered an important percussion instrument too and the sound of the dancer’s feet, called soniquete are often amplified and used as part of the song. Flamenco is improvised to a certain degree but its strength rests in a continued existence of “flamenco puro”, performing in a style that has changed little in the last two hundred years. Flamenco and Gypsy culture is surprisingly conservative and unchanged with time.
Many Spanish artists perform flamenco intent on interpreting flamenco as they learned it, but the Gitanos reign supreme. No one can match their style and natural ability, this comes directly from the manner in which they live their lives, their culture…..they are born into flamenco. Flamenco is actually a way of living, it is a “forma de vivir”.
Gitanos in Spain have reached legendary status and many myths hold true and many do not. Their presence is everywhere in Spain, whether you see it or not. Theirs is a rich and proud culture that deserves to be respected and understood. They have contributed more to Spanish society that they have been credit for. Gitanos are in danger of slowly loosing some of their customs but I am sure that their culture will remain strong and prosper for centuries to come.
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/6/2009 5:14:03 AM | When I was growing up in Portland, Oregon, I lived in a lower working class neighborhood. There were gypsies living on one of the streets, an extended or several extended families as I remember it. I was pretty young. I don't remember anything about there being any crime associated with them, and I don't remember their kids going to my elementary school. The only thing I remember vividly is my mother not liking that the little girls wore earrings and that they had their children at home and threw the afterbirth in the garbage.
When I lived in Turkey, I saw their camps along the highway when I traveled by bus around the country. I also saw them sometimes in the city begging or selling bits and bobs of cheap stuff. They live outside the mainstream--that's the most obvious quality I remember about them, and they are not liked much wherever they are. But, in general, I believe they choose not to assimilate. | |
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| Gypsy interlude
Posted: 9/18/2009 11:04:18 AM | Posted By: Fleur_de_Lis on 9/2/2009 4 39 PM
Subject: Gypsy interlude
Message: It must be our human nature
I'm one of those equal opportunity haters ~ if you're a criminal, a dirtbag, a lowlife, I want you locked up. Lowlifes come in all colors
<img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
thanks Fleur...couldnt agree more
how many US citizens are imprisoned?
how many Italian citizens have been robbing ..murdering...
show me a country without a jail or justice system...
do I say there is no Rom or Sinti doing something illigel..no...do I know educated...nice mannered...well behaved ...law respecting...YES
Problem is ...good behavior dont make any headlines...and not any (I believe 99%) "Gypsy" is a Rom or Sinti...but well...its easy to blame people without a country and without a voice
its the weakest link.....someone who walked into a store to buy food and have been denied service only because u are of the wrong race ...have to deny ur kids to tell who they are because of fear being hurt...someone who walked in those shoes..can speak
I applaude Madonna...she stood up...if she would have thought about her publicity...she wouldnt made such a comment...she saw something wrong and wasnt scared...BRAVO
Alizee | |
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