| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/5/2009 10:09:01 AM |
I can give you the names of quite a few bike racers in their 40s who were runners (without weight) for years and finally wore out their knees and other weight-bearing joints.
And I'd bet good money that 90% of those folks had lousy biomechanics---namely, overstriding and heel-slamming. Probably wore some clunky 14oz marshmallow-shoes with 2" heels. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/5/2009 8:02:52 PM | The kinesiology of running forward downhill makes it abusive to your knees.
The only safe way to run downhill is to turn around and run backwards. Seriously. This keeps your heel from touching the ground; you just bounce on your toes like you're jumping rope or doing boxing footwork.
Sure, you have to keep looking over your shoulder so you don't crash,
and you may feel you look silly, but if you want to run uphill and then get back downhill quickly (rather than a long slow walk) without punishing your knees, run backwards downhill. I used to run up a long hill (dirt road) which took me about 15 minutes (just the ascent).
Running with extra weight on your body is asking for trouble.
(An exception would be on very soft smooth sand, with a plodding jogging stride.)
However, a long fast WALK with added weight can be very beneficial, without penalties. I am pleased with the experience of walking fast for 45 minutes or so with a pair of 5 lb ankle weights and a pair of 5 lb handweights (often slowly punching as I walk -- slowly is more beneficial and safer).
Next I might get a weighted BELT -- 15 or 20 lbs -- for my long fast walks.
Unfortunately none of my local sports equip stores sells them, so I can't try one on first -- seems my only option is to buy one online.
Has anyone here tried any kind of exercise wearing a weighted BELT? | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/8/2009 9:36:48 AM |
I can give you the names of quite a few bike racers in their 40s who were runners (without weight) for years and finally wore out their knees and other weight-bearing joints.
And I'd bet good money that 90% of those folks had lousy biomechanics---namely, overstriding and heel-slamming. Probably wore some clunky 14oz marshmallow-shoes with 2" heels.
Nope. One qualified for the Atlanta Olympic trials. Some of these were elite athletes who ran marathons and 10K for decades. One was the only American to come in among the top ten in a prestigious national race. The body was not made to run 100+ miles a week, week after week, for decades. And it was not made to run while wearing a weighted vest.
Has anyone here tried any kind of exercise wearing a weighted BELT?
Why do you people keep wanting to do these ridiculous things?
Wl245 (or whatever your name was) you're 26 years old. Wait til you are 46. You guys, this is a really bad idea. Do you see Olympic athletes training like this? No, you do not. There's a reason for it. Why do you want to do this to yourself? | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/8/2009 1:06:41 PM | The body was not made to run 100+ miles a week, week after week, for decades.
Yikes, that IS excessive. The most I've ever done in a week was 50, and that wasn't a week I'm terribly eager to repeat. 30-35 mpw is where I'm happy to languish at.
As for the weighted vest, I'm not sure I see the harm if it is used only occasionally, like once or twice a week, and only for short slow runs, as a substitute for hill running.
Do Olympic athletes ever use weighted vests? I have no idea. I'd imagine that they train in mountainous areas on purpose, so they get plenty of natural hillwork plus getting used to training at high elevation gives them a big edge when they compete at lower altitudes. A friend of mine who lives in Boulder CO said that tons of Olympic athletes come to train there just for that purpose. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/8/2009 3:22:52 PM | If this was true then why are there weight lifters? Do they have bad joints? Brock Lesnar carries a log when walking. The problem with runners is that then don't take breaks which is required. Your body isn't designed to run or jog nonstop. You actually suppose to take breaks.
I carry on my backpack anywhere from 5 lbs to 40 lbs while riding a bike. Mind you it is usually groceries or whatever. Also if you have joint problems consuming fish oil can help with your joints. Marital artist tend to have joint problems too but they don't wear weight vest. 40 lbs is nothing for a vest, your body will build muscles to adapt if you give time for body to REST! This is why I think HIIT is better way of training but then you don't really need a weight vest if you do that since it's an explosive exercise. Look at the sprinters out there, they have defined muscles and I never heard of any of them having joint problems. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/8/2009 3:29:54 PM | The body was not made to run 100+ miles a week, week after week, for decades.
Some believe that our bodies evolved with that very trait in mind.
The Evolution of Human Running
Humans evolved from ape-like ancestors because they needed to run long distances—perhaps to hunt animals or scavenge carcasses on Africa's vast savannah—and the ability to run shaped our anatomy, making us look like we do today. That is the conclusion of a study by University of Utah biologist Dennis Bramble and Harvard University anthropologist Daniel Lieberman. Bramble and Lieberman argue that our genus, Homo, evolved from more ape-like human ancestors, Australopithecus, two million or more years ago because natural selection favored the survival of australopithecines that could run and, over time, favored the perpetuation of human anatomical features that made long-distance running possible...
..."There were 2.5 million to 3 million years of bipedal walking by australopithecines without ever looking like a human, so is walking going to be what suddenly transforms the hominid body?" he asks. "We are saying, no, walking won't do that, but running will". Walking cannot explain most of the changes in body form that distinguish Homo from Australopithecus, which—when compared with Homo—had short legs, long forearms, high permanently "shrugged" shoulders, ankles that were not visibly apparent and more muscles connecting the shoulders to the head and neck, Bramble says. If natural selection had not favored running, "we would still look a lot like apes", he adds...
...Why did humans start running?
The researchers do not know why natural selection favored human ancestors who could run long distances. For one possibility, they cite previous research by University of Utah biologist David Carrier, who hypothesized that endurance running evolved in human ancestors so they could pursue predators long before the development of bows, arrows, nets and spear-throwers reduced the need to run long distances.
Another possibility is that early humans and their immediate ancestors ran to scavenge carcasses of dead animals—maybe so they could beat hyenas or other scavengers to dinner, or maybe to "get to the leftovers soon enough", Bramble says. Scavenging "is a more reliable source of food" than hunting, he adds. "If you are out in the African savannah and see a column of vultures on the horizon, the chance of there being a fresh carcass underneath the vultures is about 100 percent. If you are going to hunt down something in the heat, that is a lot more work and the payoffs are less reliable" because the animal you are hunting often is "faster than you are".*
Adding extra weight to your body is not a good idea for high impact activities, the lighter you are the better.
http://www.runtheplanet.com/resources/historical/runevolve.asp | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/9/2009 10:51:02 AM | Since I've worked with a number of elite runners and other elite athletes, I can answer some questions based on my experience with them:
First of all, they flock to Colorado for a couple of reasons. One is that the Olympic training center is there. The other is for the altitude, not the hills. When you train at altitude and then come down closer to sea level, your body is getting lots more oxygen. Have you ever noticed that some of the best runners come from Kenya and Mexico? They both have a tradition of running and they run on high plains. While marathons and other long races may contain some hills, they generally run on fairly level ground.
I have never, ever known any of them to wear weights while running. Ever.
As for what we were evolved to do: yes, primitive people had to run. I seriously doubt any of them were running miles and miles every day, day after day. On pavement. And their life span was short. And they were smaller. And I doubt they ran with excess weight unless they absolutely had to. Think about it.
As for weight lifting: it's an entirely different activity. You are stationary, not running. It's doing an entirely different thing to your joints.
Find some elite runners in your area, people who have been at it at a high level for at least a decade, and ask them if they run with weights. They will look at you like you are crazy. And believe me, the ranks of masters level bicycle racers has a significant percentage of former runners whose joints couldn't take the impact any more. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/9/2009 12:14:17 PM |
First of all, they flock to Colorado for a couple of reasons. One is that the Olympic training center is there. The other is for the altitude, not the hills. When you train at altitude and then come down closer to sea level, your body is getting lots more oxygen.
That is why they put the centre there to allow athletes to take advantage of training at altitude.
Your body will increase its red blood cell production and this will give it the ability to carry more oxygen to the muscles.
Post high altitude training benefits can be felt for 1 - 3 weeks after returning to sea level.
Some athletes will take advantage of hyperbaric chamber to simulate altitude and some will just take drugs that makes your body produce more red blood cells.
Ironically two of the things are perfectly ok but one is not , although they all produce the same result.
Either way if you want to run, run with the least amount of weight you can. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/10/2009 1:58:46 PM | I use a 40 pounder to do stair training. Find yourself a nice steep set of stairs and go up and down them. Much more gentler on the knees and is a great cardio/endurance workout.
I also take Trigosamine as a supplement which is excellent for the joints. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/12/2009 7:31:55 PM | | When I was younger we used to have to run 5 miles with 80lbs... military... don't wear regular jogging/running style shoes... wear flat bottom sneakers like skate-boarders...J | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 9/13/2009 8:15:11 AM |
don't wear regular jogging/running style shoes... wear flat bottom sneakers like skate-boarders...
Yup, most regular running shoes have way too much cushioning, esp. in the big clunky heels, and end up making your feet weak and stupid, very prone to injuries. There is a growing number of folks who are taking up minimalist and barefoot running just for that reason:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/business/30shoe.html?_r=1&th=&emc=th&pagewanted=all | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:28:48 AM |
If this was true then why are there weight lifters? Do they have bad joints? Brock Lesnar carries a log when walking.
Squatting/deadlifting/whatever is completely different to running. You're not smashing your feet into the ground, there's no impact. Try pushing a nail into the wall with all your strength and see how far you get. Now try knocking it in with a hammer. Notice a difference? Now try hitting another nail into the wall as gently as you can. That's the equivalent of your walking analogy.
The problem with runners is that then don't take breaks which is required. Your body isn't designed to run or jog nonstop. You actually suppose to take breaks.
No, the problem with runners is that over the years they smash their bodyweight onto the ground hundreds of thousands of times through all the strides, and triple the equivalent of your actual bodyweight travels through your knees when you do that.
I carry on my backpack anywhere from 5 lbs to 40 lbs while riding a bike. Mind you it is usually groceries or whatever.
Again, riding a bike is like squatting and totally different to running... there's no explosive impact, simple muscle contraction.
Marital artist tend to have joint problems too but they don't wear weight vest. 40 lbs is nothing for a vest, your body will build muscles to adapt if you give time for body to REST!
It's got nothing to do with muscles, it's about your joints degrading. What about this is hard to understand?
This is why I think HIIT is better way of training but then you don't really need a weight vest if you do that since it's an explosive exercise. Look at the sprinters out there, they have defined muscles and I never heard of any of them having joint problems.
Sprinters will have less joint problems than distance runners because over the course of a couple of decades or whatever they only run a fraction of the distance and therefore only damage their knees a fraction of the amount. Sprinting 100m you're doing only 2% of the amount of strides that you would do if you jogged 5km. That's a lot less damage to your knee. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/14/2009 7:07:50 PM |
No, the problem with runners is that over the years they smash their bodyweight onto the ground hundreds of thousands of times through all the strides, and triple the equivalent of your actual bodyweight travels through your knees when you do that.
Those are the runners who are clueless about correct technique and who have been duped by the shoe industry into wearing the wrong kind of shoes.
Unfortunately, that's about 80% of runners out there. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:39:23 AM |
Those are the runners who are clueless about correct technique and who have been duped by the shoe industry into wearing the wrong kind of shoes.
Unfortunately, that's about 80% of runners out there.
No, it's 100% of runners out there. Technique and shoes can only do so much about the fact that whatever you do, you're repeatedly bringing your bodyweight smashing down onto the floor at a high velocity. Deceleration can only be slowed a tiny bit by technique and shoes, there's no getting around it, and that's what does the damage, the impact. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:05:34 AM | ^ Sorry, I call BS.
There are plenty of runners who've been running for 20, 30, 40 years and have no joint injuries. Some of them could run circles around people 1/2 or 1/3 their age.
Unless you yourself have used these alternative techniques and unconventional approach to shoes, you know nothing of what you speak. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:32:21 AM | Lmao! Are you serious? It's not inevitable that you're going to experience joint problems, but it makes it far, far more likely. There are people who are 80 and have smoked 40 cigarettes a day since they were 16 and don't have lung cancer, but more people who have smoked 40 cigarettes a day since they were 16 get lung cancer than those who haven't.
There's a world of difference between a trend and a hard set inevitability. And the fact is, if you run a lot, regardless of shoes and technique, your knees are taking more of a battering and are more likely to experience problems in later life than someone who doesn't run a lot. You might be lucky and get away with it while someone who has always done low impact exercise gets painful arthritis at 25. Genetics play a role, but so does environmental stimulus, and running, regardless of what stipulations you apply to it, is a high impact form of exercise that is damaging to the knees. Period. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:40:52 AM | Think about it... what's going to do more damage to your body, being hit by a car at 30mph whilst wearing a padded suit, or holding onto a car's bonnet from a stationary position while it slowly accelerates up to 30mph and then back down to 0mph while wearing shorts and a T-shirt?
Answers on a postcard please. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:37:48 PM | ^ I'll put it very simply:
1. Run the way most noobs run: big 14oz. marshmallow-type overbuilt clunky "stability" shoes with a half dozen gizmos and gimmicks inside, hard heel strike, foot lands way ahead of the body, upper body rigid, arms pumping, fists clenched, knees locked out just before impact, bouncing up and then heaving forward, torso 90 degrees to the ground, face in a fixed grimace as if you haven't had a decent bowel movement in two weeks.
2. Run the way a more educated/coached runner would: lightweight, highly flexible neutral shoes with reduced or minimal soles, soft midfoot strike, foot lands under or slightly behind the body, upper body relaxed, arms relaxed, hands relaxed, knees always bent, short strides but high cadence, zero bouncing, all movement is horizontal in a smooth easy flow, torso leans slightly forward so that each step feels like you are falling forward, and you have an easy relaxed smile on your face.
Runner #2 is most likely going to continue running well into old age, without any joint injuries, and with total enjoyment.
Runner #1 is most likely going to get injured and/or feel totally miserable and inept while running, which he will blame on the sport than on the fact of his own ignorance which is the true cause of his problems.
Your assertions are based entirely on Runner #1.
If you want to get a glimpse at the very different alternative universe of Runner #2, I recommend you read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/business/30shoe.html?_r=1&th=&emc=th&pagewanted=all | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:13:10 AM | Running with a weighted vest is only going to lead to joint problems down the road.
And running is high impact on the joints which isn't a problem if one isn't over training or has injuries I have found as far as injuries down the road? Like anything if you don't take it easy now and then you're going to have issues. I mean look at power lifters, now they get injuries. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:30:49 AM | And yet, surprisingly enough, they all involve explosive impact when your foot connects with the ground.
Funny that.
But hey, in all seriousness I do wish you luck with your knees. It's by no means an inevitability they'll be f**ked and I hope they don't get that way, you seem a nice fella. | |
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