| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:20:39 PM | ^ There is NO "explosive impact," that's the whole point---you would know this if you could ever bring yourself to actually try any of these methods for yourself before mindlessly regurgitating the sadly uninformed conventional-wisdom/mythology of the shoe industry and medical establishment.
Thank you for your well wishes, in any case.  | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/16/2009 5:26:34 PM | Running with a weighted vest is only going to lead to joint problems down the road.
Agreed.
As any extra weight is going to increase the load on the joints.
That extra weight can also be in the forum of muscle.
That is why I would say if you are body building and packing on extra muscle you stand to do more damage to your joints by participating in any activity that involves running.
Extra weight is just that, your body does not care if it is fat or muscle.
Humans evolved as runners. Our ability to run long distances is one of the reasons that we thrived and are here today to talk about it.
Most kids born today start wearing shoes at a young age which hinders their ability to naturally adapt to running barefoot or close to it, but the technique can be trained and taught and is still practised today by many tribes around the world and some of the distances they run and the type of races they complete in make marathons look like sprints.
Man can not improve on what millions of years of evolution has provided us, but we sure are good at thinking we can. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/17/2009 2:05:53 AM |
^ There is NO "explosive impact," that's the whole point---you would know this if you could ever bring yourself to actually try any of these methods for yourself before mindlessly regurgitating the sadly uninformed conventional-wisdom/mythology of the shoe industry and medical establishment.
There is though if you're actually running at any pace. It's physically unavoidable, that's the whole point of explosiveness, to generate speed. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/17/2009 3:12:46 PM | ^ This MIGHT be true if you're referring to an elite marathoner who runs 26.2 miles at a 5:30 pace. For the vast majority of recreational runners who fall in the 7:30-10:30 range, running with the soft efficient techniques I listed would entail a fraction of the impact of the typical conventionally pounding, heel-striking runner.
Again, you would know this if you were a runner who had weaned yourself off of heel-striking. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:01:41 AM |
For the vast majority of recreational runners who fall in the 7:30-10:30 range, running with the soft efficient techniques I listed would entail a fraction of the impact of the typical conventionally pounding, heel-striking runner.
Ah, I see. You're referring to 'exercise' without putting any effort whatsoever into it.
That's where the confusion arose, I thought we were talking about actually working hard.
My mistake. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:54:50 AM | ^ LOL as you get older and wiser you'll learn the difference between training HARD and training SMART...basically not using a sledgehammer to kill a fly, otherwise known as EFFICIENCY.
Frankly I doubt you could run 26.2 miles at even a 10:30 pace, since you are clearly not even a runner to begin with. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 2:46:19 AM | Gosh, you're right, I don't know a thing about training smart. When I go to the gym I tend to do 20 sets of curls and 20 sets of bench presses, all for 10 reps per set, all to failure, and I do that five times per week, never train any other muscles. When I want to do fat loss/conditioning exercise I don't do stuff like tabata, complexes and circuits, what I tend to do is run 26.2 miles so I look and feel weak and emaciated.
After all, there couldn't be any exercise which will improve the health of your heart and lungs better than running 26.2 miles, right?
I do wonder why on earth someone would waste that amount of time running at a slow pace in a straight line. Have these people never heard of real metabolic conditioning? One can only assume that the reason someone would run that far would be A) to lose fat, or B) to get 'fit' (what most people would consider the term to mean, i.e. improved cardiovascular function). Why these people don't just educate themselves on metabolic work is beyond me.... start throwing in Tabata, HIIT and complexes a few times a week and you will be in better condition in every conceivable way than by running long distances.
And just so you know, I used to do a lot of long distance running. Then I realised I was skinny and weak and generally the only good thing about it was being able to run long distances. Now for my metabolic stuff I do stuff that is actually demanding... 4 minutes of Tabata will leave you feeling like you've been hit by a train. A 6 round, 8 exercise complex will teach you a thing or two about endurance. Why you would want to 'exert' yourself at a pace barely beyond walking for hours is beyond me when you could get better results in a far shorter time.
But hey, it's down to you. I wouldn't be built like a distance runner for all the money in the world, I value my knees, and I like actually being able to exert myself, which is something that people who exercise consistently at low intensities just can't manage.
In fact on the subject of that, I got my best friend who does a lot of distance running to try one of my complexes a few weeks ago. He doesn't lift but he's not weak or skinny. I used 55K (121lbs), he used 25K (55lbs), which is roughly the same in terms of relative to our maxes.
Guess which one of us was too out of breath to make it through the second round? Hint: it wasn't me. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.. tip!!
Posted: 10/18/2009 9:20:16 AM | | running with weight is great for your physical endurance and will make running without weight alot easier however you have to be careful on your joints. I think personally the best way is not vests but weigh ina rucksack start with a relatively small weight and build up trying to keep the routes you take for your runs majority cross country. Grass and dirt etc will bear on your joints better than concrete or tarmac | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.. tip!!
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:22:05 AM |
...I do wonder why on earth someone would waste that amount of time running at a slow pace in a straight line. Have these people never heard of real metabolic conditioning? One can only assume that the reason someone would run that far would be A) to lose fat, or B) to get 'fit' (what most people would consider the term to mean, i.e. improved cardiovascular function). Why these people don't just educate themselves on metabolic work is beyond me.... start throwing in Tabata, HIIT and complexes a few times a week and you will be in better condition in every conceivable way than by running long distances....
For one I would say anyone that can average a sub 6min per mile pace for ~26miles is not just slumping along.
But how do you measure who is more fit?
It really depends on how you test them.
I see it like cars.
There are drag cars that are very fast for short periods of time in perfect conditions.
There are cars that are not as fast top end, but go further and through harder conditions.
There are cars that travel over roads that are almost impossible for very long periods of time.
You can not say that one car is any better than the other, you can only say that each one of those cars is better suited for the track that they where built for.
I see people the same way, some peoples bodies are better suited for long distances and some for short bursts and some for all out strength.
One is not better than the other, they are just different. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:35:44 AM | Squelchmeister,
You know, the funny thing here is that you're not STUPID, you're just hopelessly SIMPLISTIC.
In other words: you are fundamentally unable to make simple DISTINCTIONS, because you have all the mental subtlety of a ten year old. Sorry, I know that sounds harsh but it's what you've demonstrated time and again in this thread, though I don't doubt that you're probably a generally nice person and do know something about the kind of (mostly) vanity-motivated fitness training that you do.
But trying to educate you about alternative approaches to running makes about as much sense as trying to discuss the Kama Sutra with a virgin. While you claim to have "once" been a distance runner, from your comically embarassing lack of knowledge that you've displayed here, I honestly find that very hard to believe. I mean, you didn't even know the difference between heel-striking vs. midfoot-striking...holy cow, that is just frickin' HILARIOUS.
LOL...but because I have been known to have a twisted sense of humor, I think I'll persist in this Sisyphean endeavor, just for sh*ts and giggles.
So, let's see if I can plant a few seeds in that hermetically sealed noggin of yours:
1. Everyone does not engage in exercise solely out of narcissism or vanity. (gasp!)
2. Some people choose to do something like RUNNING just because it FEELS good and they ENJOY it! (gasp!)
3. Some people choose to RUN at whatever pace or distance they like, rather than feeling bad that they are not trying to run as fast as the elite runners. (gasp!) Just like there are lots of folks who lift weights but have no desire to look anything like Jay Cutler. Not all of us have such pathetic little egos. (Double gasp!)
4. Some of these people in #3 adopt certain BIOMECHANIC TECHNIQUES that allow them to run for decades WITHOUT suffering the kind of joint injuries that the medical establishment keeps warning will befall ANYBODY who takes up running. (Said medical establishment being 90% NON-runners and 99% IGNORANT of those alternative ways of running.)
5. Due to #1, 2, and 3, very few non-professional distance runners have the kind of extremely wiry bodies that ignorant/lazy people like to imagine ALL distance runners have. You would know this if you were ever anywhere near a marathon, or even a half-marathon. But it's obvious that you've just been blowing smoke out of your @ss this entire thread when pushing the idiotic myth that running by definition causes joint injuries. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:00:38 PM | I don't see any need to result to personal insults. It seems you're the one lacking maturity here if you feel that's necessary, which is a shame for someone 15 years my senior, but if it makes you happy then go ahead.
I'm not sure why you think I train (mostly) for vanity given I've mentioned both strength and metabolic conditioning in this thread. Do they sound like issues of vanity or issues of performance? You tell me.
You'll have to excuse the lack of direct quotations, I may as well simply respond to your points as you numbered them.
1. I'm aware of that, which is why I mentioned cardiovascular improvements in my post. Did you ignore that or did you just not read it? I can provide the quotation(s) if you so wish.
2. Gasp! No, really!? I'm aware of this, and if people truly enjoy running for the sake of it rather than for performance and/or (more or less non-existent) aesthetic reasons then bully for them. I can't personally fathom running as enjoyable when you could just as easily take up a demanding sport, but to each his or her own.
3. Again, I'm aware of this, and if people want to do this for their own enjoyment then fair enough, I'm just saying be aware of the potential problems of it and be aware it's a form of exercise that will get you to performance and aesthetic goals much slower than other forms of exercise. Hell, I play badminton sometimes, I just don't have any illusions that it's going to get me into incredible shape compared to other types of exercise.
4. Again, I never said joint injuries were inevitable, and again I would ask if you ignored this or simply didn't read it, and again I will offer to provide the exact quotation were I said joint injuries were not inevitable.
5. Most distance runners are skinnier and weaker than almost every other type of recreational athlete. Again, it's not inevitable, but it is likely. As for your assumption about me never being near a marathon, I was at the London Marathon last year cheering a couple of people I know on, and my observation there reflected my opinion compared to what I have seen in every single gym or amateur sports event (including local racket courts and that sort of thing) I have been to.
Basically, my points can be summarised as follows; run if you so wish for enjoyment, but be aware that for any performance or aesthetic goal you have (unless that goal is specifically running long distances), there are many superior forms of exercise you can take. Also, be aware that running can cause joint problems long term, although (in my opinion weak) arguments can be made for mitigating these problems, although if you wish to run with any sort of intensity then these mitigating factors become less feasible, although again, as with any sports/exercise related injury, it is by no means inevitable. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:31:32 PM | I don't consider calling someone "simplistic" to be a personal insult, and it wasn't meant in that vein. Chances are that if we met in a bar and didn't discuss running, we'd probably get along just fine over a couple of beers, lol.
Anyway, I'm glad you're finally opening your mind to the possibility of running NOT being an inevitable cause of joint injuries. A LITTLE bit of backtracking is better than none at all. It suggests that there's some hope for you yet. 
Now, I've never seen the London Marathon---but every race that I've seen and been in, has featured a very diverse range of body types. The elite/pro competitors are mostly ectomorphs, but the other 90% are a different story. This holds true for marathons, half marathons, 10Ks and 5Ks.
You claim not to be predominantly motivated by vanity, yet in the last couple of your posts you've been using the "but runners are sickly thin" argument in order to excuse your obvious lack of experience and knowledge about running. Not bad diversionary tactic, I have to admit.  | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:42:42 PM |
I don't consider calling someone "simplistic" to be a personal insult, and it wasn't meant in that vein.
I do, but whatever.
Anyway, I'm glad you're finally opening your mind to the possibility of running NOT being an inevitable cause of joint injuries. A LITTLE bit of backtracking is better than none at all. It suggests that there's some hope for you yet.
I see I'm going to need to provide those quotations after all; "It's not inevitable that you're going to experience joint problems, but it makes it far, far more likely," and "There's a world of difference between a trend and a hard set inevitability. And the fact is, if you run a lot, regardless of shoes and technique, your knees are taking more of a battering and are more likely to experience problems in later life than someone who doesn't run a lot. You might be lucky and get away with it while someone who has always done low impact exercise gets painful arthritis at 25," both from page 2. Check if you like. I NEVER said it was inevitable so I'm not backtracking in the slightest. You're just putting words in my mouth.
You claim not to be predominantly motivated by vanity, yet in the last couple of your posts you've been using the "but runners are sickly thin" argument in order to excuse your obvious lack of experience and knowledge about running. Not bad diversionary tactic, I have to admit.
I believe I've mentioned both the appearance of runners and general overall athletic performance (strength and cardiovascular function) as reasoning for why I consider running to be a poor choice for exercise. Not a diversionary tactic at all. In fact I believe I've mentioned performance more than I've mentioned appearance if you were to go and check. Not that both aren't equally valid reasons for exercising in a certain way, it's all individual preference after all. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:03:00 PM |
You know, the funny thing here is that you're not STUPID, you're just hopelessly SIMPLISTIC.
In other words: you are fundamentally unable to make simple DISTINCTIONS, because you have all the mental subtlety of a ten year old.
I don't consider calling someone "simplistic" to be a personal insult, and it wasn't meant in that vein.
I wouldn't even argue with you Edsta because I admittedly don't run, and you seem to know what you're talking about but c'mon.... not personal insults? | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:16:40 PM | | I have to admit that I personally think saying to a 25 year old he has the mental subtlety of a 10 year old would probably be considered insulting by most people. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:18:04 PM |
Most distance runners are skinnier and weaker than almost every other type of recreational athlete. Again, it's not inevitable, but it is likely. As for your assumption about me never being near a marathon, I was at the London Marathon last year cheering a couple of people I know on, and my observation there reflected my opinion compared to what I have seen in every single gym or amateur sports event (including local racket courts and that sort of thing) I have been to.
A marathon runner does not have much muscle mass because he is weaker, its due to his training as his body has adapted itself in the most efficient fashion.
You can not determine someones fitness by the way they look.
Take a look at Bike Racers in the Tour De France.
Sprinters will be larger than climbers.
Some racers will transition from a sprinter to a climber.
One main thing that will happen to their bodies is it will shed excess muscle.
Their fitness stays the same, but essentially they just re tuned the engine for greater fuel economy.
They are no less of an athlete because they carry less muscle.
The more muscle you have the more energy you need to output just to use it.
So then you must find that balance of how much muscle to too much and what is not enough and that is a totally personal choice as their is no right or wrong reason.
Two main factors that determined your fitness.
Strength
VO2
Power lifting is the extreme of one and ultra endurance events are the extreme of the other.
Trying to compare the two is futile.
There are marathon runners that could not bench 100% of their body weight and their are power lifters that could not run 1 mile. | |
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| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:27:15 PM |
A marathon runner does not have much muscle mass because he is weaker, its due to his training as his body has adapted itself in the most efficient fashion.
Why have you just posted something 'contradicting' something I never even said in the first place? I never said marathoners have less muscle because they're weaker, although that is surely the same thing as their bodies adapting themselves to the training they're receiving, i.e. having no need for muscle because they don't need to express strength?
You can not determine someones fitness by the way they look.
When did I ever say you could?
Take a look at Bike Racers in the Tour De France.
Sprinters will be larger than climbers.
Some racers will transition from a sprinter to a climber.
One main thing that will happen to their bodies is it will shed excess muscle.
Their fitness stays the same, but essentially they just re tuned the engine for greater fuel economy.
Actually their fitness will change. Or rather, what TYPE of fitness they have will change. If someone drops muscle and strength but becomes more aerobically capable then their fitness isn't the same, is it?
They are no less of an athlete because they carry less muscle.
Depends on what you want to be athletic for really, doesn't it?
The more muscle you have the more energy you need to output just to use it.
So then you must find that balance of how much muscle to too much and what is not enough and that is a totally personal choice as their is no right or wrong reason.
Ummm, yes, I'm not sure how this has anything at all to do with anything I said, other than the fact that I expressed my personal choice.
Two main factors that determined your fitness.
Strength
VO2
Power lifting is the extreme of one and ultra endurance events are the extreme of the other.
Trying to compare the two is futile.
There are marathon runners that could not bench 100% of their body weight and their are power lifters that could not run 1 mile.
Thanks for stating the obvious first of all, but I think there is a great deal of point in trying to compare the two. Surely if you're putting the effort in to exercise then you should choose a way of doing so that will benefit you both in terms of getting you to your goals in the most efficient fashion as well as in terms of enjoyment? Hence if someone says "I want to be 250lbs at 8% bodyfat" then you would compare all forms of exercise and choose the one that fits the goals, just like if someone said "I want my heart and lungs in the best possible condition" you would do exactly the same and choose the right tools for the job.
You have to choose what aspects of athleticism you are most interested in pursuing and that's what it's completely necessary to compare different types of exercise. | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 75 | |
| Running with a weighted vest.... anyone do it?
Posted: 11/1/2009 10:28:34 PM | Adventure racers do it all the time - it's called a backpack !
If you add up all the required gear for most races, plus water in the Camelback = weighted vest.
Racing along the sand dunes in Muskegon, Michigan really was an a.s.s.kicker, very tough.
You wear the "weight" the entire day and even carry other stuff like portaging canoes,
throwing a bike on your shoulder, performing other tasks , etc., etc. | |
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