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Posted: 9/12/2009 10:20:06 AM | | Seriously? You don't remember all the anti war(Bush) rallies...come on now! thats the problem with the left selective memory and selective about what promises Obama is expected to keep. Whatever happened to all those who were opposed to the Wars? why are they suddenly quiet, since Obama has been in Office? We have have had some of the deadliest days since Obama has been in charge and yet there are no protesters speaking out, why is that? Its because People hated Bush and Used the War to justify or rationalize their illogical Hate.....Americans are still fighting and dying everyday over there, what happened to all the Outrage? Obama began his campaign condemning the Wars and promising to get the troops out, he has slowly altered his position along the way in regards to time lines and what not and to deferring to the Generals but what he sold the Voters was he idea that the Wars would be ended quickly 8 months now and no sign of either War ending anytime soon....SO Once again where the Heck are all those fanatical War protesters and the Media for than Matter? when Bush was in Office even at the end of his term you couldn't turn the TV on without seeing protesters or death tolls on the News....... | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 52 | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 11:40:31 AM |
considering obama didn't start the war in Afghanistan and Bush and Cheney swept it under the rug once it was obvious they'd have to raise taxes to put enough troops in to make any further progress I'm not sure what you expect of him.
I'm opposed to most any overseas wars and occupations unless we think about it very carefully and limit our involvement.
but what do you think Obama should do with the disaster we are now engaged in in Afghanistan? he doesn't have a lot of options.
we can stay and keep the troop levels the same and lose a lot more troops to no particular end.
we can escalate and try to reduce our casualties but we'll never either manage to pacify the most unpacifiable place on the planet which we should have had the brains to never occupy in the first place.
we can pull out and most likely cede the Pakistans nuclear weapons and delivery systems to the Taliban. thats a good idea?
which one would you chose? seems to me thats about a bad hand to get dealt there.
and as I remember it getting the getting the troops out pledge applied to Iraq, which we are doing. Afghanistan never figured into that.
and as for the protests, trying to hide paying for these stupid wars has left most americans trying to feed themselves. they don't have much time for protests. | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 12:01:02 PM | 43 got favorable press most of his first term. ~
what few attempted to offer resistance were shouted down, called unchristian and in general ,"big dogged" any decending voice was not take well, as America and Americans committed troops and resources, placing them in harms way.
All the pain , hurt and anger still fresh on people minds ~ we wanted Osama bin Laden and every single people that remotely had anything to do with 9-11.
The search started in The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, as we had him cornered we ( or government) looked away and lost his trail in Bora Bora Mountain Range.
and from that point, things started going south for 43.
The adminstration became interest in old debits and scores to settle in Iraq. ~ We didn't invade the source of this "scourge" , this Islamic fundamentalism , we didn't ask Saudi Arabia to explain or to apologize. We just keep buying their oil.
Bush first taste of really bad press was in Sept 8th 2004 when Dan Rather ran a piece suggesting 43 military records had been doctored. An act that would cost him his job, for at that time, GW could walk on water according to most media accounts.
Mr. Rather announced he was stepping down , Jan 10th 2005
The piece in question high lighted and dug into the questions that arose
from attempts to get to the bottom of George W. Bush’s military
experience when he served in the National Guard. ~ While one might think
such matters might be crystal clear, however in this case, it was not and
Dan Rather attempted to expose the facts or absence of the facts in the pursuit
of investigative journalism. ~ In so doing, Dan Rather was asked to step down by
management of CBS.
"In any fair-minded assessment of how CBS performed and why they so badly butchered their own standards, that has to be part of the explanation," said former New York Times reporter Steve Roberts, now a professor at George Washington University. "It's not just that they wanted to be first, they wanted to be first with a story that was critical of the president."
The investigators hired by CBS "lay out a bunch of evidence of political bias, and very little exculpatory evidence, and then throw their hands in the air," said Weekly Standard writer Jonathan Last. "Rather is sitting here maintaining, despite everything, that the memos don't actually matter, that the story is right."
Rather told the panel the accusations of bias were "absolutely, unequivocally untrue." The 73-year-old anchor was in the unusual position of declining to comment when Bob Schieffer led off the "CBS Evening News" on Monday with the report eviscerating Rather's Sept. 8 story on Bush. Rather wasn't granting interviews yesterday.
In a statement yesterday that dealt with none of the specifics, Rather, who will step down as anchor in March, addressed CBS's ouster of three top executives and his producer, Mary Mapes: "Four good people have lost their jobs. My strongest reaction is one of sadness and concern for those individuals whom I know and with whom I have worked. . . .
"We should take seriously the admonition of the report's authors to do our job well and carefully, but also their parallel admonition not to be afraid to cover important and controversial issues."
Also granting no interviews yesterday was CBS News President Andrew Heyward, who survived in his job while lesser heads rolled.
Louis Boccardi, the former Associated Press chief executive who headed the panel with former attorney general****Thornburgh, said they "didn't feel we could say, 'We accuse you, Mary Mapes, of having a political bias and we can prove it.' Instead we said, 'Look, here are the things these folks did, that the program did.' " This, Boccardi acknowledged, "won't satisfy anybody who thinks anything short of outright condemnation, a finding of political bias, was an act of cowardice . . . that we didn't have the nerve, courage, wisdom, insight to say it." But, he added, "bias is a hard thing to prove."
( just two people made up this "Panel" hired by CBS) I found very little on this "Louis Boccardi" a very achieved media person, well though of by many. ****Tornburgh , a solid republican, and past held an appointment given by Bush senior. Anyway, ~ just two people made up this panel that advised CBS to dismiss Rather and his associates.
Dan suited CBS for 70 million, ~
NYC judge wants to see CBS panel's Rather papers
Posted 11/5/2008 7:49 PM | Comment | Recommend
E-mail | Save | Print |
NEW YORK (AP) — A New York City judge says he wants to see documents that passed between a law firm and a panel CBS hired to investigate a Dan Rather story on President Bush.
Judicial Hearing Officer Ira Gammerman told attorney David Versfelt on Wednesday to let him examine the papers so he can decide whether Rather's lawyers may see them.
Versfelt's law firm was hired to advise the panel. Versfelt says the papers are protected by attorney-client privilege.
CBS hired the panel to investigate a disputed 2004 "60 Minutes II" story about Bush's military service. Rather says he was removed from the evening news anchor chair and given little to do after the story. He is suing CBS for $70 million.
so Dan Rather attorney didn't get the document.
Critics Question No-Bias Finding By CBS Panel
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 12, 2005; Page C01
If there is one line in the 224-page report on CBS News that has set critics aflame, it is that there is no "basis" for concluding that Dan Rather and his colleagues had a "political bias" in pursuing their badly botched story about President Bush's National Guard service.
What, they say? No evidence?
And a brief editorial summary;
Published on Monday, December 1, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Bush and Iraq: Mass Media, Mass Ignorance
by Jeff Cohen
The president's secret Thanksgiving trip to Iraq prompted predictable gushing from major media. As we head toward a presidential election, mainstream media and their pundits are telling us Bush will be difficult to beat. What mass media don't discuss much is their own role in public opinion and public ignorance, two measures that run hand in hand.
Looking for the Bill Moyers Keynote Address to the National Conference on Media Reform?
That half or more Americans think Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attack -- perhaps the most media-covered event in our history -- stands as a horrific indictment of U.S. media today. Such levels of ignorance can't be found in other countries.
Americans who are fundamentally misinformed about 9/11 provide the bulk of those tallied in polls as supporting Bush and the Iraq war. Subtract them from polls and Bush is an unpopular president -- widely seen as having accomplished a bait and switch, redirecting U.S. anger and vengeance toward a country that did not attack us.
The run-up to the Iraq war offers a case study in news bias: how mainstream media, especially television, were incapable of getting the truth out in the face of administration lies and innuendo about Iraq's 9/11 role and weapons of mass destruction.
Among experts internationally, there had been much debate and many doubts about Iraq being an imminent WMD threat. But there was little debate among the handpicked weapons "experts" who dominated U.S. television coverage in the build up to war -- and most of what they told us has turned out to be wrong. A media furor erupted over fictionalization in news accounts by New York Times reporter Jayson Blair, but not about the more momentous reporting -- illusory and scarily overstated -- by Times star Judith Miller on WMDs, both before and after the Iraq invasion.
News outlets ideologically allied with Bush have been happy to assist in confusing the public about who had attacked us on 9/11 and in morphing our enemy from Al-Qaeda to Iraq. The Fox News Channel runs its "War on Terror" banner whether discussing Afghanistan or Iraq. Other outlets promoted the Saddam/911 confusion less out of ideology than ineptitude -- during a live, pre-war news conference at which the chief of Homeland Security described new terrorist threats from Al-Qaeda, MSNBC ran its banner: "Showdown with Saddam."
sorry to run so long ~ it's all there ~ for anyone to find ~ the media and especially FOX at the end ~ that kept the package sold to American . ~
Obama could have used a 3 year romance period, with all the problems he's inherited ~ but he's not gotten 3 minutes!
You can't trust the media or your government!
Dance | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 2:08:18 PM | msg 51 says "Seriously? You don't remember all the anti war(Bush) rallies...come on now!
How soon some seem to forget.
Guess this is another area of contention. It was ok for us all to protest and demonstrate against Bush but not Obama??? It was okay for us to say we distrusted and did not like the government under Bush. However we are not supposed with Obama, even though Obama is just as bad if not worse so far.
I will admit it does seem strange for me to be going from War protest against Bush's policies to now Tea Parties against Obama. In the beginning I did have trust and faith that this new president would bring good change to DC, especially after what Bush had done. Now I have realized Obama is just like all the other politicians.
Some memories of just a small percentage of the numerous anti-Bush rallies that were held across the nation. Some of the pictures are a bit mind boggling as to the signs carried.
SAN FRANCISCO Huge statue to be jailed in anti-Bush rally
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/04/BAGEULHT991.DTL&feed=rss.bayareap
Thousands rally nationwide vs. Bush NLRB's anti-worker rulings August 19, 2006
http://www.ilwu.org/dispatcher/2006/07/nlrbrallies.cfm
Downtown Rallies Condemn Bush Administration Hundreds Gather In Grant Park And Federal Plaza http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/anti.war.rally.2.332682.html
Outrage: Public schools busing students to anti-Bush rally By Katharine DeBrecht CHRISTIAN EXAMINER- Opinion http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Dec05/Art_Dec05_oped1.html
Pictures of the rallies.
September 24, 2005 Anti-War Rally in Los Angeles
http://www.humboldt1.com/~mdd/lapeacerallysept2005.html
These photos were taken at the post-election anti-Bush rally in San Francisco on November 3, 2004.
http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/
Great Signs at a Bush Rally http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=33373 | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/12/2009 7:03:13 PM | Here are some nice shots of just how much people don't trust government at the moment:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html
What's interesting is that U.S. news media report the number in "tens of thousands", while this U.K. media says it was up to two million. The pictures testify as to which is reporting it more accurately.
Somebody the other day was saying how this march wouldn't amount to much, implying it was just a small handful of disgruntled rich people or something.
I'd say the White House was watching this event very closely. Some of the signs are pretty good, too. Sorry I couldn't make it.
Looking at the photos, I'd say AT LEAST as many people were here as for themillion man march, only these appear to be packed a lot tighter. Estimates of the Million Man March varied between 400,000 and 850,000 attendees. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/12/2009 7:08:16 PM | Man talk about protests. Looks like a lot of people are having a problem with government trust. The top aerial picture says a lot.
D.C. police estimates the crowd at 1.2 million. ABC News, however, reported this afternoon that the crowd was estimated at 2 million. http://americangrandjury.org/march-on-dc-draws-2-million | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 7:41:17 PM | It's kinda like how people can be FOR ABORTION but NOT FOR KILLING a person in their right mind who committed an act so vile that it makes you want to puke!
But really. It all comes down to this point. If we do not have vested interests in the world then there is no such thing as competition. Competition runs the world and always will. Just WHO will be the winner at any given point in time is how the future will unfold.
The future is so uncertain that at any point a countries survival and it's interests hinge on the greatness that it may have. Look at the middle east for decades and centuries and see how much influence they have had on history. Not just OUR history but the world history. Everything from Vlad Tepes to the Romans, from Biblical to Philosophy. Negative impact? Positive impact? You decide.
As we see now many laws that are being passed if the middle east were once part of our culture also. The law in Afghanistan were women have to submit to sex every four days. etc.. Yes, the USA once had if a woman refused her husband that divorce could be decreed and he would win. Times have changed here in the USA.
After looking at the laws that the Muslims have over their wives. Maybe men should rethink their commitment? You may not think this kind of stuff could happen in our country. BUT take a look as to what has happened in the last 60 years!
I personally believe that it is sick to tighten security on our own people here. Freedom is being rocked to it's core. 40 years ago things that are happening today would have never been allowed here. The people of this country would have never allowed cameras to catch you speeding, running a red light, peeping into your private life, utilizing the AMERICAN dollar to support a communist nation, letting congress and or a President set up a government owned business, Selling AMERICAN land to a foreign owner!
Just my thought! | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 7:48:25 PM |
we can pull out and most likely cede the Pakistans nuclear weapons and delivery systems to the Taliban. thats a good idea
If you notice. MOST of the terrorists ARE from WHERE lately? Ummph! Pakistan... Obama himself said it plainly until it was ousted by his political party. He was going to invade Pakistan!
I say pull out of those countries. If we are not going to utilize their land and make them part of us... Then WHY the HE_ _ be there!
War today is to dumb for us to get involved with! No matter if we win or lose we are the losers! | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 9:09:33 PM | I say pull out of those countries. If we are not going to utilize their land and make them part of us... Then WHY the HE_ _ be there!
War today is to dumb for us to get involved with! No matter if we win or lose we are the losers!
there's nothing "to" win and everything to lose for the USA anyway, anyhow. But there is profits in war for some, both here and there.
but I differ with you in that I believe a woman has the right to control her own body and it shall not be taken away from her by government, within given time limits . And that's the way it stands today, it sad that this single point can keep like minds separated so furiously.
I'm by no means calloused or indifferent as you suggest some might be that it make you puke. There are hard decision that must be made each day and you suggest they not be made and conduct moral judgement on any one that does. I find this , very big of anyone that wish to dictate to woman/mother on such matters.
So we should trust government or you and your team on such matters. Sounds more like 900 bc Taliban inflicting moral judgement to me.
2 million? hmm ? that leaves 300 and five million people somewhere these. I'd say those numbers very doable ~ I'd guess there is a good 10 million zealots and extremest in America, making it 8 million that never left the house , the noisy ones that chose to stay home.
Dance | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 9:56:51 PM | "I believe a woman has the right to control her own body and it shall not be taken away from her by government,"
The problem with that statement is that a baby, fetus or whatever you want to call is not "Her own body" it is its own entity that relies on her to make the Right decision so that it will be given the RIGHT to LIVE!!!!! | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 10:12:25 PM |
"I believe a woman has the right to control her own body and it shall not be taken away from her by government,"
The problem with that statement is that a baby, fetus or whatever you want to call is not "Her own body" it is its own entity that relies on her to make the Right decision so that it will be given the RIGHT to LIVE!!!!!
If that's true then take it out and leave it up to god. If it lives, it lives. If it does not, then that was god's will. | |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 10:59:42 PM | It's just too bad people can't seem to get out of the Dem vs. Repub mindset, nor seem able to separate government from their religious beliefs.
Those two things above all others keep the status quo in place. From reports that I read, not all of the protestors were Republican. Many were Democrats who are just as pissed off at what is going on in Washington. Kind of blows the "us versus them" arguments right out of the water.
That blindness and rote partisanship will be the downfall of the country yet. It's sad when someone who is not a Democrat is automatically assumed to be a lover of Fox News, Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, and a Republican.
Some people just want to live their lives without being lied to or manipulated by their government or organized collectives of people primarily interested in their own comfort at the expense of others. When denied, they turn to bite the hands that have fed many of them for decades. Kind of hypocritical to hear how they've been oppressed and cheated by people allegedly doing the same things to them. Makes you not want to trust anybody, not just government. | |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 6:33:58 AM |
It's just too bad people can't seem to get out of the Dem vs. Repub mindset, nor seem able to separate government from their religious beliefs.
I think lately what people want is a government that listens to its people, regardless of the party they belong to. Democrats, Republicans and Independents are upset and distrustful of all of DC, and all parties; Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike.
Many Americans have gotten tired of the same politicians taking office year after year with the same ole promises that they break as soon as they win the election, Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike.
The tea parties, 9/12 protests and town hall meetings were and are not just about the Health Care Reform. These groups are about government trust, distrust of the Republicans and Democrats. Many do not feel that they can trust who has been put up in DC as a good spokesperson of the people Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike.
Yesterday's Very highly attended rally in DC proved just such a point. If one looks at the signs one will see the frustration with government in generalfrom Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike, not just Health Care. I have a feeling that if any of the news media had been out there, besides Fox they would have found out that fact. Admittedly many of the signs were referencing Obama, but even Obama admits the buck stops with him. Since the buck stops with the president the signs are aimed at the current just as they are with any other governmental protest in the past.
http://americangrandjury.org/march-on-dc-draws-2-million | |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 7:17:36 AM | The problem is the corruption of our Government and also the insatiable need for power. Whether we want to admit it or not, I am now believing we have have the most corrupt government on the earth right now. Special interests and Lobbyists run our nation threw political contributions. Trial lawyers, Wall street and Fannie Mai and Freddie Mac are the largest contributors to the Democrat party. Pharmaceutical companies give huge amounts of money just so they are no legislation to regulate them. Republican Politicians are no better and have their own special interest groups.
"We the People" have no one to blame except ourselves.
Why?
Because many of us have had blinders on and follow the Democrat and Republican parties like little puppy dogs wanting to suckle on their mother. Doesn't anyone see that they want us to fight amongst ourselves. I am so tired of hearing left wing, right wing, republican, democrats, Bush or Obama. Our government is draining all of us. What happened to being a proud American. A patriot of freedom.
Our country was founded on Freedom to make our own choices and not have our lives dictated .
We have major decisions to make about our self and our nation. There are good points to be made from the left and the right of our country. There is a common ground that can be found. I know it can. I still believe in our Constitution as a way to live our lives.
Corruption is like a cancer. There is a problem when politicians like Charlie Rangle can cheat on his taxes and be head of the committee that makes tax laws. But he hit the wrong button on turbo tax. But he will not be investigated unless "We the People" demand it. There is a problem when Acorn is one of the most corrupt agencies in our society and will not be investigated. They are to receive billions of our tax money to continue the power hungry grab. To maintain the lefts control over society.
America is a melting pot of ideas and nationalities. That is what we were founded on. The idea of Freedom for all, Not just white or black, Christian or atheist, left or right but for all.
We are easy to call each other stupid for not believing in what we believe. What gives us the right to do that. Freedom of speech? No wonder there is so much hatred in our country. It is a shame when people are attacked for their beliefs. There is no more respect for one another. Look what happened to Sarah Palin she was crucified for having a dumbfounded look on her face about a question what do Alaskins read. LMFAO so did I. I wish she would have said "Well Katie, We are all waiting for the next issue of Igloo building "
Government should earn the trust of "We the People" they have not and let us down because of our self.
"We the People" Have to take our country back. It is time to end the corruption in Washington now. We have precious little time to do this. It is a shame when you have to be a rich elitist to be a congressman or senator or president. Why is it not possible for you or I to be a politician? I have heard great ideas to reshape our country and economy not from our politicians, But from right here on POF forums, from co-workers, from neighbors. We are the ones being victimized by Washington.
The media is no help. So therefore we have to spread the message. We have to point out the corruption to all Americans that will listen, that care about our future and our children's future.
It's time to throw the bumms into the Potomac river and start over again. | |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 8:22:57 AM | "I believe a woman has the right to control her own body and it shall not be taken away from her by government,"
The problem with that statement is that a baby, fetus or whatever you want to call is not "Her own body" it is its own entity that relies on her to make the Right decision so that it will be given the RIGHT to LIVE!!!!
well Sir. , woman is the host to life ~ this is a burden and a gift that place on "her". You can twist it around anyway you wish ~ but you'll never get around that fact. You can't separate the host from the child on this physical plane and that's what's in process here. You are attempting to separate mother and child. ~ They are one!
If there was as much interest and consideration afforded the born as the unborn you might offer a valid arguement for such a positional stance. But as it stands, ~ once born, ~you are on your own. A sad place for a 6 pound individual to find themselves, wards of the state with no host.
Sure, we have some programs in place to address these issues. ~ We've had to fight tooth and nail with the GOP to ever get much done in this area , for children don't vote! ~ And this "should be" a family matter and not a matter of government. None of us enjoy the notion of government involvement into matters of family, and only do so with great reservations.
Life is full of irony ~ it's bitter , sweet, heart wrenching at times. Ever read "Sofy's Choice"? Where a mother has to choice between two son, where one might live and the other die? Gut wrenching tale. Life is much like that. Just because it's never been placed on your shoulders personally does not make this human drama less real to others. It's dealt with daily by someone, somewhere. These decisions they must live with ~ and they are oh so heavy. But you'll never see it by just looking at them. That you can't see it, does not mean it's not there. Women take these matters most seriously.
And it not for tired old bald men to say what "women" must do within the parameters of time allowed, it's for the host and family to make such decisions.
From a Nations, point of view, Our present infrastructure can acommonidate 350 million people. Presently we are approaching 320 million.
There is population problems ahead, big ones!
Hard decisions ~ are just that,"hard" and everyone will never be pleased with any "one" choice. ~~~ Say a pray for Truman while you are thinking so deeply, he could use the support.
All infants deserve a sponsor and host. Are we in such a position to guarantee that they have it? Well, we darn well better be if we had it your way.
It's a heartbreaking problem.
So as you judge ~ you will be judged , is a universal law, another reality you can't escape.
Dance | |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 12:58:57 PM | "We the People" Have to take our country back. It is time to end the corruption in Washington now. We have precious little time to do this. It is a shame when you have to be a rich elitist to be a congressman or senator or president. Why is it not possible for you or I to be a politician? I have heard great ideas to reshape our country and economy not from our politicians, But from right here on POF forums, from co-workers, from neighbors. We are the ones being victimized by Washington.
The media is no help. So therefore we have to spread the message. We have to point out the corruption to all Americans that will listen, that care about our future and our children's future.
It's time to throw the bumms into the Potomac river and start over again.
Actually this is what all the tea party rallies and the hugely attended (over a million 9/12 rally in DC are all about . People in the tea party and 9/12 rallies are actually asking that all elected politicians start listening to us or they are gone:
After the apparent success of the rally on 9/12 in DC the politicians might be waking up and seeing that a lot of people are Not Happy.
It's taken a while but it looks like a good portion of America has started waking up to the corruptible politics in DC.
Many have lost their trust in what the elected local, state and federal politicians are doing Democrats and Republicans alike.
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Posted: 9/13/2009 1:09:33 PM |
It is a shame when you have to be a rich elitist to be a congressman or senator or president. Why is it not possible for you or I to be a politician? It is possible; it is just less likely. Most congressmen have histories in other political offices... most "start small." If you're interested, that is what you should pursue. I don't think the victim mentality of "Why isn't it possible for you or me to be a politician?" is necessary or productive. | |
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Posted: 9/13/2009 3:25:14 PM | Yea ~ well if that's what it all about ~ fine ~
but all this excitement and resistance to a package direct toward "main street" ~ that is to be phased in and spent over several years is unnecessary and uncalled for.
We still transporting electricity on dead trees for christ sakes ~as well as much of our communications.
The power grid need to be upgraded ~ communication upgrade. ~ One ice storm knocks out whole sections of the nation. ~ One nuclear blast would be crippling.
The work needs to be done ~ and people need work. ~ People pay taxes when they work!
People not working don't pay near as much taxes as one that do! ~ We need the work, the work needs to be done, we need the revenue , so what's the problem?
Show me a bill that passes the house and senate that doesn't have to be greesed to get passed. That's the way the hill works and has worked for many years. Maybe it shouldn't, I'll agree to that ~ but we have an "all hands on deck " situation and it's a poor time to discuss proper disembarking methods and where the life jackets needs to be stored.
Or was I the only one that felt a sense of "ergency" to act, as monthly unemployment figures rose at an excelerated rate and bankruptcy common place. I think not! I am not alone with my thoughts.
>>>>>>
News Americas
US unemployment continues to rise
Analysts expect the number of unemployed
people in the US to rise further [AFP]
The US unemployment rate has risen to 9.7 per cent, the highest level for 26 years, government data for August has shown.
About 216,000 people lost their jobs last month, according to figures released on Friday by the US labour department, pushing the jobless rate up by three-tenths of a percentage point from the previous month.
But although the jobless rate increased, the pace of job losses has slowed, the figures showed. Revised data showed that 276,000 people fell out of work in July and 463,000 in June.
"The good news is job losses are slowing. The bad news is joblessness continues to mount," said Sal Guatieri, economist at BMO Capital Markets.
"Our sense is job losses may continue for a couple of more months, which can only act to impede a consumer-led recovery."
Analysts had predicted that 230,000 jobs would be lost in August, pushing the unemployment rate to 9.5 per cent for that month.<<<<<<<
we are not through this by a long shot ~~ and the private sector alone can't turn this boat around fast enough , it needs help from the FED. ~ It's time for "everyone" to paddle. It's time for leadership. It's time to look around and see who's part of the problem and who's working for resolve and resolutions with long term goals ~ This ain't no pout pout boat, the USA is a huge blue water vessel, she slow to go and slow to turn around and impossible to stop once she's reached cruising speed. Any course change takes time, lots of it.
Where you know it or not ~ we are all in the same boat, some of us just has better setting, but if we run aground and rip a seam, good setting won't save you from getting wet and swimming with the sharks.
Not spending is the equivalent of not rowing.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/13/2009 10:44:09 PM |
So we should trust government or you and your team on such matters. Sounds more like 900 bc Taliban inflicting moral judgement to me.
The taliban is not that old. Heck, Muhammad is 570-632. So they are relatively new on the religion pool. As for old religions. The taliban is not even 20 years old... The new religions that appear I always cringe.
As for my initial comment on the Abortion VS killings. I said it that way to be more of a forked tongue comment. People in favor of abortion and the people who don't approve. ALSO the way someone can be FOR the right to have an abortion then turn around and want to save the life of a convicted killer who is nothing but evil. It really fit with the OP.
People go on about how we (the people) would have to pay for an unwanted child but prefer to give some jacka__ who killed someones daughter, mother, father, son free health care, dental, and room and board for 30 years. One prisoner on death row probably could provide enough money to sustain life to an unwanted child for XX years.
As for the HOST (child / mother) bit. Amazing how women go about saying it is their bodies etc.. They ARE being dictated to! If a woman smokes during pregnancy, does drugs, drinks, etc... They can be up for big time problems, maybe even lawful ones! If the case of life, host, child etc... An unborn child can not survive out of the womb without intervention. PERIOD! no matter if it is 6 weeks or 8 months! Heck, even if it lasts full term and is born.
You ever hear an aborted fetus cry? My parents use to have a shop next to a planned .... Yep, you can hear some of them cry. That is why Obama voted AGAINST the bill to BAN partial birth abortions! Yes... He voted against the ban. I won't go into how they preform this procedure to save your supper!
The fact of the matter is this. Republicans really could care less to an extent of what a woman does with her body! Republicans just do not want their tax dollars being SPENT to PAY for such procedures! It would be like a woman that can't get a boy friend because she has an A CUP to get bigger boobs. I don't want my tax dollars to be spent for that! | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 12:00:12 AM | The right should question everything the left does.
The left should question everything the right does.
The left should question the left as the unintended consequences of any policy is what needs to be questioned.
The right should question the right as the unintended consequences of any policy is what needs to be questioned.
You can go back to the founding fathers and politics were intended to be based on intense debate.
If you are so entrenched in your own ideals that you can't question your own beliefs as well as that of the opposing side then you are part of the problem.
Most people are so entrenched that they ignore the common ground where they do agree, and this where we need to start.
And trust no media, what happen to the good ole days of investigative reporting, not just teleprompter regurgitation. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 12:05:34 AM | The taliban is not even 20 years old...
The Taliban is a political group...not a religion. They may hijack religion and use it as a tool...but they are politicians...not unlike other politicians who hijack religions...the Crusades come to mind...
The new religions that appear I always cringe.
Yes...enlightenment is the curse...Galileo was a heretic! Still is in some circles...
People go on about how we (the people) would have to pay for an unwanted child but prefer to give some jacka__ who killed someones daughter, mother, father, son free health care, dental, and room and board for 30 years. One prisoner on death row probably could provide enough money to sustain life to an unwanted child for XX years.
Yet...
ALSO the way someone can be FOR the right to have an abortion then turn around and want to save the life of a convicted killer who is nothing but evil.
But death penalty killing is ok?
Sounds like....you are anti abortion, yet pro killing...forked tongue indeed!
WWJD? I suspect he'd be anti both!
It would be like a woman that can't get a boy friend because she has an A CUP to get bigger boobs.
The thinnest argument I've heard in a long time...talk about "nth" degree.
Enough already...not what this thread is about.
Goverment trust...corporations allow the government to run as they see fit.
Edit: fzrhusker.....2 thumbs up! | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 1:12:46 AM |
People go on about how we (the people) would have to pay for an unwanted child but prefer to give some jacka__ who killed someones daughter, mother, father, son free health care, dental, and room and board for 30 years. One prisoner on death row probably could provide enough money to sustain life to an unwanted child for XX years.
Yet...
ALSO the way someone can be FOR the right to have an abortion then turn around and want to save the life of a convicted killer who is nothing but evil.
But death penalty killing is ok?
Sounds like....you are anti abortion, yet pro killing...forked tongue indeed!
Actually I am more of an older mind set. I'd give the vile human to the women. Just like Afghans use to do. Maybe like the American Indians. Take them to a field, tie them down then slit their eyelids and pour honey on them for the ants! That suits me fine.
When a baby pops out of the womb and kills the doctor with a knife in the chest I may think twice when it comes to reversing the thought! lol
But my original post was a parallel on the OP. We see the underlying tones of the original post. When it comes to our own interests (USA) then competition rules. For many generations the presidents and congress have utilized the power of the GOV to create more wealth for those in office. Even you will know that a revolution was not what the people wanted here in our own history. Only the wealthy who were being ravaged by taxes wanted war. NEXT! The Civil war was not about freeing black people from oppression! It was how the north could not compete! NEXT! Even good old Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer passed a law that only SIX peanut growers in the USA would be allowed. Guess what! His family JUST happened to be one of the farms allowed to stay open! Congressmen have also increased their wealth by sitting in the house, senate, and in-between.
No need to keep adding to the list of how power and government go hand in hand to create wealth for those of the inner circles.
All I want from a government? Pull back to our own borders. Keep USA safe from foreign invaders. Protect and help our Allies when called on like the RULES say. Protect its citizens and livestock from being murdered or slaughtered by tainted food, tainted medicine.
And by all means... Stay out of my daily life and let me choose how to live! I don't need their health care. I don't need their opinions on if my child is to fat or to thin. I don't need their cameras watching me to see if I am speeding down the highway. I don't need them to keep a watch on my home to see if someone is going to break into it! And I DO NOT NEED to pay taxes just to have my money go off to a foreign nation.
And BTW... Isn't it great that big brother is watching all of us smoke, drink, and eat to many potato chips? | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 4:47:25 AM |
And by all means... Stay out of my daily life and let me choose how to live!
Sir. you can't have it both ways. You are all over the place with you conflicting conviction.
This is indictive of this mindset. It just fails to ring clear.
And the arguement is weak at best. If it not any of your concern , whats the fuss.
We are not discussing your Tax dollars here. We not discussing "for" death but personal libertys that some people wish to deny women.
If you wish to protract the effect of "any" decission your are liberty to create any monster of your choosing. Authors of fiction enjoy this dominion and entertain us daily such protracted reality.
In any case , your opinons fail to ring clear or rule the day.
It's clear this divides us and always will I suppose , for I don't plan changing my views unless new and better information comes forward. You fail to offer me any.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 11:13:21 PM | Republicans must think Obama has superhuman power. I read Rush Limbaugh's website three days after the election last November and Rush said the "Obama recession" was fast becoming "the Obama depression." The man wasn't even President yet and already he was being blamed for the economic problems of our country. That's pretty amazing.
Amazingly stupid. And people buy it. Critical thinking is dead. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/14/2009 11:49:30 PM | Holy Crap: Obama Actually Manages to Make the Patriot Act WORSE than Under Bush
Obama is in trouble with the left (again) because his Justice Department is proving to be just as secretive, tyrannical, and oppressive as Bush’s — and in some cases even worse:
The new wave of criticism was triggered by two actions in recent weeks by the Justice Department.
First, earlier this month, the department presented an expansive series of arguments urging a federal court in San Francisco to throw out a lawsuit over warrantless surveillance first filed against Bush. The department’s brief not only asserted the state secrets privilege, which has long infuriated civil libertarians, but also made a sweeping assertion that Americans have no rights to challenge surveillance that violates the law unless the information is improperly released.
Then, on Friday, the department issued similarly broad arguments against a court ruling giving legal rights to some detainees held by the U.S. military at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. The government motion said the decision could aid “enemies of the United States” by allowing them to use “the U.S. court system as a tactical weapon.” The filing led to a New York Times editorial Monday sharply criticizing Obama for positioning Bagram as “the next Guantanamo.”
…[snip]…
…critics such as [Glenn] Greenwald insist that the recent Obama administration acts on secrets and Bagram need to be publicly denounced.
“It would require a virtually pathological level of tribal loyalty and monumental intellectual dishonesty not to object just as vehemently as we watch the Obama DOJ repeatedly invoke these very same theories and, in this instance, actually invent a new one that not even the Bush administration espoused,” he wrote.
“When Bush asserted the power to abduct people and put them in prison for life with no charges, he was a Constitution-hating tyrant. When Obama does it, he’s being really careful and cautious and doing it to protect us for really good reasons even if we can’t know what they are and he won’t tell us,” Greenwald wrote, mockingly summarizing the arguments of Obama defenders.
via Legal left cools toward Obama – Josh Gerstein – POLITICO.com.
Frankly, I don’t understand the shock — given Obama’s stunning flip-flop on FISA last summer, what did Greenwald expect? That was when they should have turned away from Obama — but instead they swept him into the White House, signaling then that he could do whatever he wanted with no political repercussion. Even now, instead of taking Obama to task, Politico is still publishing crap articles about how trustworthy he is.
A least a few former fans aren’t buying it:
First, they argued, exactly as the Bush Administration did on countless occasions, that the state secrets privilege requires the court to dismiss the issue out of hand…As in the past, this is a blatant ploy to dismiss the litigation without allowing the courts to consider the evidence.
It’s an especially disappointing argument to hear from the Obama Administration. As a candidate, Senator Obama lamented that the Bush Administration “invoked a legal tool known as the ’state secrets’ privilege more than any other previous administration to get cases thrown out of civil court.” He was right then, and we’re dismayed that he and his team seem to have forgotten.
Sad as that is, it’s the Department Of Justice’s second argument that is the most pernicious. The DOJ claims that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying — that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes.
This is a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one — not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration — has ever interpreted the law this way. [italics mine]
…[snip]…
The Obama Administration goes two steps further than Bush did, and claims that the US PATRIOT Act also renders the U.S. immune from suit under the two remaining key federal surveillance laws: the Wiretap Act and the Stored Communications Act. Essentially, the Obama Administration has claimed that the government cannot be held accountable for illegal surveillance under any federal statutes.
Again, the gulf between Candidate Obama and President Obama is striking. As a candidate, Obama ran promising a new era of government transparency and accountability, an end to the Bush DOJ’s radical theories of executive power, and reform of the PATRIOT Act. But, this week, Obama’s own Department Of Justice has argued that, under the PATRIOT Act, the government shall be entirely unaccountable for surveilling Americans in violation of its own laws.
This isn’t change we can believe in. This is change for the worse. | |
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