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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:23:16 AM | Again, the gulf between Candidate Obama and President Obama is striking. As a candidate, Obama ran promising a new era of government transparency and accountability, an end to the Bush DOJ’s radical theories of executive power, and reform of the PATRIOT Act. But, this week, Obama’s own Department Of Justice has argued that, under the PATRIOT Act, the government shall be entirely unaccountable for surveilling Americans in violation of its own laws.
This isn’t change we can believe in. This is change for the worse.
This is what many cannot figure out about the Obama acceptance mentality.
Obama is not only doing many of the same things that previous administrations did but is escalating what they did.
Obama has escalated many of the crucial issues of the Executive Branch, disrupting the significant fundamental checks and balance system set up many years ago for the federal government.
Obama even promised to Reverse the policy of escalating the powers of the executive branch beyond the powers of Congress. Some say this refers to just the Patriot Act! Yet Obama is not only using the Patriot Act as he wants but is also bringing in more Czars/Advisors than any other President without Congressional Jurisdiction.
Somehow I guess we didnt listen between the wordsand lines Obama was sprewing out during his campaign.
More and more everyday it seems that the Change Obama meant was an escalation in the problematic policies of DC.
These are only some of the reasons many have got a big Trust Issue with local, state and federal government. We try and believe in political promisses, yet we get the same ole crap. We believed in Obama and we got it at the Federal level, just as we have seen it at all the other levels. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:41:46 AM | These are only some of the reasons many have got a big Trust Issue with local, state and federal government. We try and believe in their promisses, yet we get the same ole crap. This statement seems random. Every single line that it refers to contains the name "Obama." My pleasure or displeasure with my local government (and my state government, for that matter) is not based on Obama's behavior.
This victim mentality doesn't help anything. If you don't like what's going on, GET INVOLVED. I try not to make assumptions about what people are doing in their private lives (i.e. community involvement) but statements like "we try to believe their promises, yet we get..." paint a clear picture of sitting back and complaining instead of stepping up.
Everyone in government has stepped up to promote and work towards what they want. If I don't like it I need to step up myself, because the only other choice is to sit back and feel victimized. And there's no need for that. Drawing lines in the sand between "us" and "them" simply exacerbates the problem. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:55:06 AM | Ye a Sahara ~ The patten is quite clear be now~ and fails to offer clear reasoning . ~ It's like they all we to the same meeting and got all excited about what someone might have said.
This is just another feeble attempt to gain some yardage with smoke and mirrors ~ they got no game to play ~ the issue they have lost on, over and over again.
They attempt to focus on Obama and lay fault at this door. ~ 2 weeks ago I was calling it veil bigotry, ~ I noticed on the news last night others were doing the same , I was two weeks ahead of the news.
The GOP is like a huge mortally wounded animal that thrashes about attempting do harm to anything within it's reach as it gasps it's last few breaths of air.
This Sept 12th March ~ was another tea bag event. ~ The only thing they knew for certain was they were in DC and pissed at government! Void of focus and just lashing out at anything an everything, then throwing it Obama way , ~ Like "watch me throw a fit!" ~ juvenile behavior at it's finest! Simple bunch of folks.
I'm angry too ~ have been for 27 years ~ but at least I know why!
Like I stated earlier there was 8 million more just like them that never got off the couch.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 12:47:43 PM | msg said (So a McCain/Palin ticket was the answer to all our woes?)
Actually that is what was sad about last year.
There are many who will openly admit they voted for McCain/Palin because it was the better ofthe two. Some would have voted for the independent candidate if they thought it would have done more than just give Obama a bigger edge.
Many would have rather seen a different Republican ticket last year.
In fact many would have loved to have seen a different Democrat ticket last year.
It has actually been a long time since we have seen a good Presidental election with a clear cut choice. In fact many of our elections have been that way lately on both the local, state and federal level.
That is why people have lost their trust in practically all elected officials.
2010 is going to be an interesting year at the local, state and federal level. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 1:04:34 PM | "Ye a Sahara ~ The patten is quite clear be now~ and fails to offer clear reasoning ."
Seriously clear reasoning? Ok its like this lets see if this is clear enough for you....Focus now...people think Obama is doing a terrible job, reasons for this......
Promised to end the Wars and pull people out asap...not happening!
Sold people a stimulus bill so filled with non stimulus programs and what not that it did not stimulate the economy....1 trillion dollars..unemployment rises everyday...instead of concentrating his efforts on the economy he is trying to redirect everyones attention to Health care so that he can have a Government run system,as if that will somehow end unemployment.....he is unclear on how he intends to pay for any of these massive changes he proposes...he is so concerned with implementing his Green agenda that he is doing nothing that is going to help all of the unemployed in the short term.....His priority should be the economy not his dream of being the savior of all those without Health Insurance..........his priorities are Off...what good is Health Insurance when you cant pay your rent or put food on the table because there are no jobs..........what happened to the 3-4 million jobs he was allegedly going to create with the Stimulus debacle...the argument of him only being in office for 8 months is getting very old....Trillions of dollars later and no decrease in unemployment....I know blame Bush...like I said before do some research Bush may have played a part in this economic situation but so did Clinton if we are going to be honest....so its time for him to spend the stimulus money, start these infrastructure plans, create the green jobs or any jobs and live up to his Promises..... | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 2:57:21 PM | I really find it difficult to "not" address most of your concerns ` ~however seeing little benefit in doing so. I'll pass and let you stew ~ If I shot them down, which can be easily done ~ you will just dream up some more ~ and on and no it would go.
It's clear ~ not enough people voted for Senator Mc Cain is it not ~ or is that up for debate as well? Do we need to discuss it?
As for pulling troops out of Iraq, ~ It can't be too soon for me. ~ Every minute , every dollar, every American life lost there is a travisty .
It took 5 years to disengage Viet Nam ~ I would expect much the same with Iraq.
This instant gratification that you are expecting will leave you a very disappointed person. Me too, I wanted Bin Laden head. I not yet got it, though it was promised. Seems the Bushy's got theirselves distracted.
You are being most unrealistic with you expectations. Things take time and you can't push the river. Now if you want to really slow things down, answer this "call to arms" from the prophet "Glen Beck" revolt! overthrow the government. ~ Then all work will stop for a few day while federal force are redirected to clean your clock. That would work for me as well ~ this noisy minority is just that "noisy" ~ they speak in circles, think in 5 word slogans ~ so we are suppose to listen to them? I think not today.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:07:56 PM |
Promised to end the Wars and pull people out asap...not happening!
Sold people a stimulus bill so filled with non stimulus programs and what not that it did not stimulate the economy....1 trillion dollars..unemployment rises everyday...instead of concentrating his efforts on the economy he is trying to redirect everyones attention to Health care so that he can have a Government run system,as if that will somehow end unemployment.....he is unclear on how he intends to pay for any of these massive changes he proposes...he is so concerned with implementing his Green agenda that he is doing nothing that is going to help all of the unemployed in the short term.....His priority should be the economy not his dream of being the savior of all those without Health Insurance..
Again some very well brought up issues about why people are so quickly losing faith in Obama.
Instead trying to push another Expensive Bill at this time, Obama should be pushing some type of solution to fixing unemployment, foreclosures and the worsening economy.
Yet what we get is another way to spend tax payers' dollars that we do not have.
You don't fix your personal finances by going out and borrowing even more and spending even more. Anyone with any common sense knows that
Yet that is what Obama has done without Federal Government, piled up the debt bigger and deeper. If we do Obama's Health Care Reform it will be even deeper.
When do we start digging out???? | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:14:56 PM | There are many who will openly admit they voted for McCain/Palin because it was the better ofthe two. Some would have voted for the independent candidate if they thought it would have done more than just give Obama a bigger edge.
Many would have rather seen a different Republican ticket last year.
In fact many would have loved to have seen a different Democrat ticket last year.
It has actually been a long time since we have seen a good Presidental election with a clear cut choice. In fact many of our elections have been that way lately on both the local, state and federal level.
That is why people have lost their trust in practically all elected officials.
I do not understand but what you mean by many?
As the number of people involved is very relevant to the topic, why would you choose and arbitrary description like many?
Is that because - "many" really means a small albeit loud minority and saying many making your point sound better?
As the op stated there seems to be allot of people that point out the smallest things and then try to make them into something out of nothing*, IMO -You are quoting something that one could never prove either way, they are only opinions not facts.
...Seriously clear reasoning? Ok its like this lets see if this is clear enough for you....Focus now...people think Obama is doing a terrible job, reasons for this.....
Let me fix that for you.
...some people think Obama is doing a terrible job,...
See the difference?
Those some people represent the minority not the majority.
*
After reading these forums for entirely too long, I have noticed that there are quite few American posters on here that feel that their Government is full of liars and shouldnt be trusted, example: Healthcare, and point out the smallest little thing as proof that they cant be trusted to look out for their citizens or make the right decisions where people's lives are concerned. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:31:13 PM | | I should have put some that is true, but that number will rise as more Americans lose their jobs while Obama and his minions are concentrating on Health Care reform when they should be concentrating on creating jobs...............the Fed has predicted that Unemployment is going to keep increasing, this is from Bernake.... | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:40:04 PM |
Let me fix that for you.
Well let me try an even better approach, if what you want is the numbers. First, look at the popular vote. This is the NUMBER of real people who voted in the election, not the number of electoral votes they had representing them. The NUMBERS were approximately 47% to 53%. So your large majority or minority do not really exist. I'm going to bet that most of that 47% are not real happy with Obama right now.
So, probably chances are lots of people think Obama is doing a terrible job. They may not represent a majority but if it's almost half it isn't a small minority either. Of course, that is assuming the rest of population that didn't vote is a mix divided pretty much the same, so if there is proof otherwise of that fact, I could be wrong. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:55:45 PM |
So, probably chances are lots of people think Obama is doing a terrible job. They may not represent a majority but if it's almost half it isn't a small minority either. Of course, that is assuming the rest of population that didn't vote is a mix divided pretty much the same, so if there is proof otherwise of that fact, I could be wrong.
Well it seems that Obama is going for another record in the polls. Obama has actually slid downward more in the polls than any other new president. After a bump of about 1.2% on Monday Obama is down .5% in his Approval ratings. Good news for those behind Obama is that there are no polls that have him below 50% currently.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
As for the direction our country is going in only 35.4% of people think that the Direction of Country is the right direction with 58.8% saying the wrong direction.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html
I think the polls say quite a bit. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:11:43 PM | | Maybe what is most important here is the fact that Obama only got 43% of the white vote, 55% white voters chose McCain and Palin. Old white voters are the most likely to oppose Obama. They are most afraid of losing something under his administration. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:44:58 PM |
I think the polls say quite a bit.
Gee...another mention of polls...
Polls can be used to support two opposing views on the same subject, so it isn't really advisable to rely on the numbers.
People can say whatever they want; it is in their actions that we see the truth.
Government trust...a great concept whose grasp doesn't quite equal its reach. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:57:10 PM | Yet another dumb thread with partisan bickering, by folks who have no idea how the government actually works.
When the AMA, and the HMO's, and the insurance companies, and the entire medical lobby can find a way to maximize their profits(over and above what they currently make) THEN you will see universal healthcare, and not a moment before.
We have the best government that money can buy. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 6:47:34 PM | I don't watch the polls ~ maybe I should ~ but this ain't no horse race and I'm not prepairing to make a bet. The bet was made back in November of last year. A real "no brainer" it was. Never has a decision been any clearer.
The dark one out shinned , out thought, out planned, out articulated, out graced, out reasoned the white one every step of the way. I was a man that use to bet against Cassius Clay , never no more will I be such a fool. It was never about color but my bias. I've learn to recognize a winner. Obama has got it covered. ~ much better then his opponent. The Maverick with the brown nose. The hero pow , the reformer with a bunch of buddies , End of story.
He won, get over it! like I got over Bush first win, the final decision resting on one man that just happen to be a conservative ~ get over it.
It was Mc Cain 's to loss ~ and he did! Mc Cain had it! But he lost it with his assuming the dog and pony show would work yet again, that "America First" was suppose to mean something to people that had already given their all, they sons , their daughters, their jobs , their homes. McCain was appealing to people that had not yet begun to give! While the rest of us looked on in total disbelief!
When will some realize falsehoods and deception win only minutes ~ while truth wins the days. (but sometimes it does take a while) This process of being able to tell lies faster the then they can be prove untrue ain't a working and more! So another plan is needed! Ah! overthrow the Fed! now that might work! With a wide brush just waste them all! ~ Maybe that will work! We gotta get that black guy out of there! Let's destroy ourselves and start anew!
It didn't know That 20 % of American were so sick. I only knew 28 % had minds hard as concrete.
maybe you can set yourself ablaze ~ that will show us your serious.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:00:43 PM | "This process of being able to tell lies faster the then they can be prove untrue ain't a working and more! So another plan is needed!" I have to agree with this. I think that is why Obama and his administration are having so many problems winning public support. His misrepresentations and agenda are becoming more evident, when people voted for hope and change I don't think that is what they had in mind.
"but don't you think "now" is the best time to try? and if not now When?" Definitely not!!!! Now is the time to concentrate of fixing the economy and putting people back to work,,,,, reform what we can in Health care with no major overhaul while working on creating the millions of jobs that Obama promised with the Stimulus plan.....When? after the unemployment numbers are lowered and after illegal immigration is dealt with.,.....Even the Fed says that unemployment is going to continue to rise,,,,I think that fixing the Economy should be Obamas number one priority right now....without people working there are no taxes to pay for all of his programs anyways...... | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:08:52 PM | | government trust sounds like an oxymoron to me | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:25:13 PM | "
This process of being able to tell lies faster the then they can be prove untrue ain't a working and more! So another plan is needed!" I have to agree with this.
This reminds me of a cartoon I once saw. If Obama had a lie o meter at his side it would be spining so fast it would take off like a helicopter.
"but don't you think "now" is the best time to try? and if not now When?" Definitely not!!!! Now is the time to concentrate of fixing the economy and putting people back to work,,,,, reform what we can in Health care with no major overhaul while working on creating the millions of jobs that Obama promised with the Stimulus plan.....When? after the unemployment numbers are lowered and after illegal immigration is dealt with.,...
This is actually a problem at most state levels too. What is with all this spending spending spending ? When does it stop or does it.
When do we figure out a way to create jobs not just adding to the ranks of the ranks of the unemployed and uninsured. I was actually shocked when Obama's speech gave a lower number for uninsured. I figured with all the new unemployment that the numbers probably went u.
Obama needs to stop his campaign blitz and concentrate on why all his other plans this year have not given the economy the boost he promised, especially the unemployed. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:35:49 PM | ....without people working there are no taxes to pay for all of his programs anyways......
In order to have a healthy economy one must have a healthy populous.
Ya'll seem to keep missing the point that corporations run government...
Why b1tch about Obama when the likelihood of McCain doing the same things is patently obvious.
Not much different that going after the dime bag dealers while ignoring the producers.
Power is the drug...
"This reminds me of a cartoon I once saw. If Obama had a lie o meter at his side it would be spining so fast it would take off like a helicopter."
Me too...only is was Bush II...Clinton had one too...as did many of his predecessors. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:40:24 PM |
"This reminds me of a cartoon I once saw. If Obama had a lie o meter at his side it would be spining so fast it would take off like a helicopter."
Me too...only is was Bush II...Clinton had one too...as did many of his predecessors.
I think it is all of them....Such a shame... I will say I bet the "lie o meter" flew to the moon during the Bill's first speech to the public about Monica and him.
Talk about lost of government trust. Bill lost a lot of people and their trust. with that one. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/15/2009 10:09:00 PM | If Bill's "flew to the moon", chances are, Georgies flew way beyond the stratosphere...
Yes...a lie about a BJ is more/just as important as a multitude of lies that plunges a nation into war 
Bill's BJ was not about government trust...it was personal... | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:45:17 AM | To people that have and are in the process of raising families Health Care is a big issue.
I'm already past that point ~ it's not that big of a concern for me, But! I don't represent most of America.
Obama chose to address it now for several reasons
1. it's needed ~ for HC cost is out of control
2. projected cost is staggering
3. everyone at sometime requires it
4. this cost eats away at every American's discretionary spending, that small amount of money left after you pay for food and shelter,etc whether or not you save a nickel out of each paycheck.
5.Health care reform will be the hardest thing he might attempt to do under his administration
6. Obama knows he's at his strongest at this point in time.
7.The money directed to address infrastructure is to be phased in and require much research and study,this is happening as I speak. Feasibility studies, impact studies, right-of-way studies. Engineers , Research & Development are ongoing. American industry have been told what is needed ,the projects have been funded and it will requires some time before most of us see it start to happen. ~ For now, few do.
So Health Care dominates our conversation. If we were engineers, we'd be talking about something else.
I'm eager to see something myself. America must slow her dependence on imported crude. America and her people are going through a transition. Transitions and change are rarely fun.
Myself I'm eager to see some kind of immigration reform as we increase our population by (1) one every 14 seconds. I'm eager to see people get back to work and paying taxes and raising families . I'm eager to see bridges to nowhere and highways to nowhere then nowhere become somewhere. Somewhere people may live and work.
I'm eager to see NAFTA reform. Where we can buy American made goods again.
I'm eager to see a military career a real choice ~ and not because young men and women just can't find meaningful employment.
Health Care is a hole in every American pocket, where we are losing our buying power. It's a wealth transfer in progress. A slow bleed out situation that stiffles personal wealth and growth.
Today, when you woke up ~ did you think about on the way to work you might stop in a BMW dealership and buy you a nice car? ~ Well that just about what happens in this country if you ever have much of an accident. ~ That's what you will spend trying to get yourself mended and healed up. You can drop 35 -40 grand easy.
But accidents only happen to "other" people right?
and on a side note : I'm not telling anyone anything about my recent BJ ~ I'm sure as hell not going to give her name up! But Baby ~ it was great! you could suck the chrome off a bumper. Think I'll leave you something went I go.
Who would ask such a thing? ~ And worse who'd tell the truth?
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/16/2009 7:25:58 AM | Ugh, this is why I'm a moderate. Let's have some nice, healthy gridlock so radicals on NEITHER side can have their crazy way!
Our system is imperfect, but it actually functions pretty well, overall. I think it's pretty unlikely to change much in the near future, supposed voter disaffection notwithstanding. If Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressive Party couldn't pull it off nearly 100 years ago, when there was arguably, a lot more at stake in terms of the country's direction, it's certainly not going to happen now, when the large majority is literally fat, and mostly happy, in spite of a lot of b*tching & moaning.
Sure, it's a bit depressing that we'll probably see the same-old same-old for the rest of our natural lives, but I've lived for 40 years, hearing that the sky is falling anytime now, whether it was because of the Communist threat or environmental catastrophe, and guess what? Most of us are still here. In fact, more than ever are still here, and so far all of the doomsday predictions regarding the exploding world population haven't really materialized, either.
I'm not advocating complacency, because I think it's our duty as citizens to keep an eye on our government, to get involved if we feel strongly enough, and do our best to bring about change for the better. A good example of this is health care reform, I think. I don't really see how anyone can argue that we DON'T have a problem with runaway costs and that most people will probably be priced out of adequate care in the not-too-distant future. That being said, I'm not necessarily keen on the bills currently in the works, although for all of the squawking in protest, I haven't seen anyone in the "opposition" come up with anything resembling a viable solution, either. I wish fewer people would fall for all of the polarizing demagoguery, and just be practical about coming up with something that works. Other countries have done it- I don't think we're really that much less competent than anyone else. 
As to the OP, I think the answer to your question is that people tend to respond emotionally, rather than rationally. The shock and horror that followed 9/11 made it pretty easy for the government to rationalize just about anything. Afghanistan wasn't surprising at all, but I was pretty disappointed at how readily the public, media and congress fell for the administrations rationalizations about going to war in Iraq. Some of that got by pretty easily because, even though I hate to say it, the American public is shockingly ignorant of world affairs. I don't even know how many intelligent, presumably well-educated people I spoke with in the run-up to the war in Iraq, made some pretty amazing statements like, "Oh, they're all the same over there (meaning Arabs, Muslims, I guess?), they're all out to get us, so we might as well just attack them."
Another thing that occurred to me at the time was that Americans in particular, seem to see war as some kind of abstraction. Our combat casualties in recent years tend to be pretty minimal, and since it's been well over a century since any kind of war has been fought on our soil, civilian losses don't even seem to register with most people. A lot of otherwise compassionate people seemed pretty unimpressed with the idea that thousands of Iraqi non-combatants were dying for no particularly good reason. Things that affect the pocketbook however, are a lot less abstract. Sure, bomb the crap out of nameless, turban-wearing villagers, but don't go raising my taxes! I guess some of that is natural, but I still can't help but wish for a little more interest and curiosity about the rest of the world on the part of the American people. | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/19/2009 6:55:02 AM | Good sensible posting brightestblue
I would only add, a few things.
If what America and Americans did ~ didn't affect the rest of the world so, the need of understanding other nations and countries would be much less. But as it stands today, we have people suggesting the peoples of Iraq will greet US troops with flowers as they march into Bagdad on a bed of rose peddles. That kind of thinking came from the top! and not the average American. That was insane to think such a thing.
And one life time is spit in the ocean when it comes to history and the direction of a nation.
The Jews spend 40 years on an extend "camp-out" after leaving Egypt.
Life is made up of minute, sometimes minutes become lifetimes. From 1932 to 1945 the German people lived in a living hell. So what we say and do by the minute, matters to someone, somewhere.
Life seems to be a process of enduring, learning and over coming, most of us would all agree that learning the same lesson twice is unnecessary and "can be" avoided, and that's what we are trying to do.
The cycle of over reacting and under reacting like a huge rubber band, being pulled,tugged and stretched to the limits of breaking point.
Yes , we can break ! Yes! things can get worse.Yes! people in high places do lie.
Our future is neither promised or guaranteed. We are not "too big to fail" we are just so big it's hard to see the failure. You only hear rumors of failure and suffering but if there no sign of it at "our" house and not affect us ~ it's just rumors.
You can "see"what ever you wish to see. But we all know that darkness comes slowly and so does the light.
Education is the "only" way through this maze of bitter sweetness.
Stay informed by many sources, listen and read things that you might not agree with as well as the things you do. Control your bias, understand it, know it.
Know that freedom is not free and the fight for freedom goes on daily.
Know that freedom of speech does not mean your not held responsible for you words and there could be a price to pay. You are only free to say it, no one will deny you.
Know that lies only win the moment but lose the day and will be uncovered with time.
Treat words like money, spend them carefully.
Dance | |
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| Goverment trust
Posted: 9/19/2009 9:59:36 AM | January 22,2009 Obama was sworn into office.
Note the date on the piece below and how it is critical of the Obama administration with regards to H L S , something I personally think unnecessary and a breach of civil liberties. Actually created in the wake of failures in Federal Agencies. So more Federal Agencies were created and nobodies head rolled in the CIA, FBI or Immigration after America was attacked on it own soil from within.
It's almost as if some people expected change January 23th 2009. 60 days into his administration Obama was still filling cabinet position. That he hit the ground in a hard run at three times the speed of his processor wasn't good enough for his critics as early as April of this year.
To think that somehow any "on going" legal proceeding will somehow change their position overnite due to an administration change, begalls me.
This is unreasonable and navie expectation, one would think anyone smart enough to offered criticism on such a topic "might" know something about due process and what they are talking about.
April 7, 2009
Commentary by Tim Jones
Electronic Frontier Foundation, Deeplinks Blog
We had hoped this would go differently.
Friday evening, in a motion to dismiss Jewel v. NSA, EFF's litigation against the National Security Agency for the warrantless wiretapping of countless Americans, the Obama Administration's made two deeply troubling arguments.
First, they argued, exactly as the Bush Administration did on countless occasions, that the state secrets privilege requires the court to dismiss the issue out of hand. They argue that simply allowing the case to continue "would cause exceptionally grave harm to national security." As in the past, this is a blatant ploy to dismiss the litigation without allowing the courts to consider the evidence.
It's an especially disappointing argument to hear from the Obama Administration. As a candidate, Senator Obama lamented that the Bush Administration "invoked a legal tool known as the 'state secrets' privilege more than any other previous administration to get cases thrown out of civil court." He was right then, and we're dismayed that he and his team seem to have forgotten.
Sad as that is, it's the Department Of Justice's second argument that is the most pernicious. The DOJ claims that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying -- that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes.
This is a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one -- not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration -- has ever interpreted the law this way.
Previously, the Bush Administration has argued that the U.S. possesses "sovereign immunity" from suit for conducting electronic surveillance that violates the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). However, FISA is only one of several laws that restrict the government's ability to wiretap. The Obama Administration goes two steps further than Bush did, and claims that the US PATRIOT Act also renders the U.S. immune from suit under the two remaining key federal surveillance laws: the Wiretap Act and the Stored Communications Act. Essentially, the Obama Adminstration has claimed that the government cannot be held accountable for illegal surveillance under any federal statutes.<<<
This case ~ was just more baggage for a new administration, which already had plenty.
If the plaintiffs wanted a better outcome, their legal council should have timed the trial better, for everyone knew we were going through an Administration change.
But what do we "choose" to do? ~ Lay it at Obama's feet! Yea ! that's the ticket!
Just one more rabbit trail. ~~ that lead to nowhere ~
Dance | |
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