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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/7/2009 10:53:23 AM | I can only tell you that what I had been taught by my parents did not serve me well.
What I have learned is that you cannot control what the other person is or will do therefore you must be true to yourself. The times I have gotten in trouble relationshipwise is when I forgot or ignored that lesson. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/7/2009 11:03:08 AM | You know, I didn't even consider taking this a step further with respect to marriage. Wow, I guess that says a lot about me, eh? Although I enjoyed being married and *most* everything it entailed, lol, I'd be hard pressed to remarry, at least anytime soon.
It makes me sound like total white trash to state here that my parents were married a total of eight times to each other (duh) and others before they met and after their divorce. Did that have an effect on me? Yes, but it wasn't cataclysmic. It did diminish the concept for me as it was apparently just "something you did when with another" as opposed to a union recognized, condoned and blessed by whomever your God is.
My kids do ask me when I'm going to remarry, as their Mom has already remarried but it only lasted a few years. They're still married, but he moved to parts unknown and she hasn't undertaken the steps necessary to formally divorce.
I guess I would remarry if I were *certain* it was with the right person and for the right reasons. But if there are no plans to have additional children (God forbid, lol) I don't know if it could be rationally justfied. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/7/2009 11:47:18 AM | Great post resident cynic harboring a smidge of hope.
Your last point about the lack of information from your parents is exactly why I have been talking with all three of my children about relationships for years, so they would have a clue when they started dating themselves and considering people as long-term partners. I was in your shoes as well, neither of my parents ever talked to me about dating or anything else. And honestly, I don't now if the relationship conversations happened because the subject came up or because we were discussing my relationship with their dad. I do know that I often take the time to rehash these things when they tell me about something going on with a friend, or we see a family somewhere acting weird or whatever.
I too wonder about their success and the pitfalls with the examples they lived with and I have told my daughter and my sons, if you don't see yourself married to this guy/gal with kids, don't date him/her. This may sound stupid but we cannot control who we fall for and many bona fide adults over the age of 25 do not have the where-with-all to walk away from someone they know they shouldn't be with when they love him/her. Why put yourself in that position, so the guy or girl who doesn't apply themselves in school, who is not involved in extra-curricular activities, who is partying all the time, who doesn't give a damn about anything or anyone, is disrespectful to his/her parents or other adults, is probably someone they don't want in their lives. Now certainly many people outgrow these behaviors and become productive adults but more often, those individuals that are doing the things to promote a successful future now will have one.
I have told them when they do date, to expect certain behaviors, my daughter is expected to have anyone she wishes to date meet me, I'll kill her myself if she ever goes running out to a vehicle if the guy doesn't have the courtesy to come to the door and is dumb enough to honk the horn, etc. For my boys, I let them know that they should be gentlemen and courteous but to expect reciprocal behavior from the girls/women they date, none of them should put up with poor treatment from people. That is not to say that they shouldn't understand that everyone has a bad day and people do have disagreements and there is a difference between occasionally being a poop and that being a significant component of your nature.
I've told them about a friend who is after 13 years and three children still happily married but the first couple of years, oy. They had a baby before they married, and another two years later, with financial stress, etc. they fought relatively frequently. She would call me and we would get down to she supposedly wanted to bail, and I would ask her, are you doing it because you really can't stand the man or because you are hoping that there is someone better out there? Because if it is the latter, you have some things to consider like the good father he is, yada, yada. Now, they still have a row now and again but they do enjoy each other's company, have been good parents both involved and united on that front, and several years later she told me that she would call me because she knew I would talk her down when other people she knew would have advised her to walk.
I have told my kids to pay attention to how a boy treats his mother, how his father or stepfather treats his mother or significant other. Same family dynamics for a girl's family. While people can reject the models they are shown by parents, this is often quite difficult to do so better to find someone that comes from a happy, respectful home. For my daughter, whether a boy seems good around children because he is more likely to be a helpful, engaged, hands-on father should a relationship ever progress that far.
I have taught all three that they should wait until they are mature enough to have sex but only they can decide when that is right for them. I hope that they all have sex because it is part of a loving relationship and a progression of their feelings. For my daughter, that she wants to, not because she feels pressured, is afraid he will leave her or to make him happy rather than because she really wants to. For my boys, I have told them that they really should do more than listen for a no, try to make sure that it is really what the girl wants. I will skin both of them alive if I ever find out they are banging multiple women just to be adding notches to the bedpost. My daughter believes that until she is ready to have a baby, she shouldn't have sex because there is nothing that is 100% guaranteed no matter how careful one is. My boys similarly have seen their 30-year-old brother produce 7 kids with an idiot for a wife and their cousins having babies or siring them when they are 17 or 18. By 23, one of their cousins already had three kids with an ex-husband that had spent more time during their marriage in prison for DUI than out; oh, and she got married at 16, sigh.
I have talked to them about marriage and the many questions I did not ask myself about children, money, conflict resolution, faith, planning for the future, and other things that people have problems with in relationships. We have also discussed the number of good relationships we know about, which as you said, are very few and far between. I wish you had spoken with those people because I think that while they are happy, things are not happy all the time and most couples have experienced significant rough patches along the way and probably love each other more for getting through it.
We have also talked about the stupidity in remaining in relationships because you have invested too much time to leave, or because you choose to see the good qualities and ignore what is clearly staring you in the face. We have discussed why relationships I have been in have ended, why I think I married their father who turned out to be an exceedingly poor husband and father, the latter a surprise given how he behaved with and about my stepson. We have discussed why if things are rocky in the beginning, it is better to end them because the likelihood that things will get better rather than worse is very slim. I think they get the balance required to really try to make a relationship work without wasting energy on something that never had a prayer to begin with.
All three of my kids are leery of relationships because they have seen one heck of a lot of bad but they have all learned things from watching other people, particularly my boys about the way men can choose to behave differently from what they have seen from their father. My daughter also has her own opinions and will manage her dating/love life differently from the way I have but she also values my opinion and I think all three of my children will likely talk with me as they already do relative to relationships. They seem to be making good choices, even my youngest who was dating someone we all wanted to see go away, I made sure he stayed involved in sports, with his friends, and he fairly quickly broke up with her because she was treating him poorly.
I think the more information you give your children, honest information that includes both the realities of the problems as well as the hope that love can last a lifetime if you choose wisely, they will navigate dating and marriage as successfully as one could hope. There are no guarantees, I have seen people do a Jekyll/Hyde thing after marriage and there are certainly marriages that are good but crumble under personal tragedy but I think again with the right partner, happiness forever is possible. but I would also caution my children that even in good marriages, people can grow apart and perhaps who they thought was the right one, really wasn't the one to be with them forever and that is okay too.
I think if I had some over-arching advice to give them it is that if they make decent choices, even when relationships do not work, the pain is not excruciating when you can honestly just say that you were not suited, when there has not been significant ugliness, jealousy, and all of the other things that propel two loving people to a stance of hate. I think even when a marriage ends in divorce and when children are involved, there are such things as amicable divorces and positive co-parenting and again, if you choose the right person, he/she will think of the children and remember the love that you once did share and act accordingly.
What would really break my heart is if they found themselves adopting the attitude of a cynic and staying on the sidelines because they are afraid or don't believe that a happy healthy relationship is possible. I would rather see them hurt I think than for them to harden their hearts.
No matter what has happened to me in life, I will not influence my children in their personal lives when it comes to dating. That is after they turn 18 and presumed to have magically acquired enough intelligence and skills to handle theirs lives as required. Of course I will offer some guidance, but will hover in the background until I get the SOS flag.
Given that psychologists/neurologists indicate that the person's cognitive development is not complete until 25 and that it is much harder to deal with a problem than help to prevent it, I would have to say I totally disagree with this position unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't consider my life experience as somehow coloring how they might behave because we have discussed exactly what I knew about their dad, what I didn't know, what I chose to overlook and what I didn't really understand, so I don't really have to tell them anything.
I won't "tell" my kids they should or shouldn't do anything but depending on their age and their potential response, I will make comments that hopefully lead them in the right direction. I could not stand the girl my youngest was seeing but I also felt that forbidding it would result in him potentially doing it behind my back and his not telling me in the future when he does have a girlfriend and I expect my boys to bring a girl home just as I expect my daughter's dates to meet me. Many people were appalled because the kid was 10, the girlfriend 13 but I felt it was better for him to keep seeing her under my supervision than to lose the opportunity for future input in this area. For an older kid, what guidance I would give would probably depend on the kid and how intense the feelings are. Even if you know from the get go that someone is a huge mistake, if the kid is gaga, they aren't going to listen so you try to help put the brakes on things and pray that the cracks start showing up pretty quickly; they usually do. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 7:08:39 AM |
Given that psychologists/neurologists indicate that the person's cognitive development is not complete until 25 and that it is much harder to deal with a problem than help to prevent it...
I think this is a really important bit.
While I realize that my kids will do whatever the hell they are going to do despite my incredible wisdom and sage advice, I do, and will continue to, stress getting all their ducks in a row before they consider getting into any sort of serious relationship. The later, the better as far as I'm concerned...
... details like never living with your S.O. and getting an iron-clad pre-nup if all else fails will come later...
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 7:54:36 AM | Hmmm... my 20-y-o daughter told me this past weekend that her bf's grandmother is pressuring them to get engaged or married to one another. That's insanity! My daughter works part time (10--20 hours week) and attends college full time. Her bf works part time for a company serving various venues which hold large crowds (concert halls and sport arenas), barely graduating high school, and with no current prospects to attend a college or technical trade school. Two such persons have business contemplating marriage... and my daughter had the inelligence and balls to tell the old woman so.
I've told my daughters that dating is not a free entertainment service for them. IMHO the main purpose of dating among younger persons is to find a suitable life partner. If you meet someone you hit it off with and the feeling is mutual then you spend more time together and determine whether you have similar values and goals (or at least goals which don't confliect with each other's). If a person isn't interested in having a life or long time partner (or at least not at that particular juncture in their life), then they can spend time with family/friends for socializing.
Once people are in a relationship I believe (and have told my daughters) it takes work. Maybe not initially but eventually. Maybe some of it comes naturally or is so easy that it doesn't seem like work. The point is I don't give my daughters' the impression that boy meets girl and rainbows fly out their a** for the rest of their lives. As I've said previously on many occasions, I stress to my daughters that the chances of some Prince Charming taking them away to live in a stress-free fairy tale world are pretty remote so they need to concentrate on getting an education. Personally, I've felt trapped in a bad relationship. I want my daughters to at least know that they can support themselves and to never feel like they have no choice but to remain in a bad situation. But I hope my examples and my words will help them to make good choices so they may never face some of the challenges I have.
I've taught them (especially during the past 1 1/2 years) that people and things change. It isn't always intentional, can't always be forced nor stopped, but just is. We must be flexible, able to compromise and roll with the punches... adjust, adapt and overcome. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 8:16:42 AM | On one hand you are saying that you WILL attempt to influence your kids about a choice that could have a profound, possibly negative, impact on their lives and on the other hand you state that you will take a more laissez-faire approach to relationships which will ALSO have profound, possibly negative, impacts on their lives. I see what you mean. I guess *for me* I see my 'influence' on safe sex and pregnancy prevention being a more limited thing.
That is, I do not want either of my children to shorten their life span or end up with a disease as a result of unsafe sexual practice and I do not want them becoming a parent unless they do so with their full consent and intent to become one prior to it occurring.
The rest however, is not for me to influence. All easy to say now of course. Get back to me when my daughter informs me somewhere in her late teens or early 20s that she and "Xxxx" are in love and have decided to become parents! 
I guess 'my plan' if you like is based on a belief that yes, relationships in themselves can have profound and possibly negative impacts on their lives. However, those impacts are far less likely to be life-threatening than unsafe sex and are not going to leave them forever responsible for another life, unlike unplanned pregnancy.
To me the way a relationship can change your life, even alter the course of it is one thing. But it is just not on the same level as becoming a parent if you didn't want to/consent to it or to be carrying a STD or the rest of your life or worse...
Does that sort of clarify where I am at with it a little?
I guess we differ a little, in that despite the failure of my marriage and my resulting life as a single parent, I have not lost 'faith' (for want of a better word) in relationships, commitment, marriage or family.
I will live with a man again. I would live with a single father. I am definitely open to re-marrying, although do not see this as in any way 'essential' or even particularly 'desirable'. I will seek out a long-term committed relationship, although again from a very different place than I might have done in my past, that of it being my preferred/desired state, not a 'must do/have' type of need.
So again it comes down to just 'keeping it real' (is that the phrase?!) with my children. I will be vocal on issues of safe sex for health reasons and pregnancy prevention in terms of being prepared, 'ready' and desirous of being a parent. But it's not like I could ever tell them to never marry, or only do so with a pre-nup or never live with someone, or never live with a single parent, etc, etc, because I do not necessarily believe in any of those statements.
But I guess I see that kind of "influence" as different to trying to influence their relationships on any other kind of level. It is more along the lines of not living my life one way and telling them they should be living theirs differently, if you know what I mean? | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 11:54:28 AM | | Whatever you tell your kids about relationships will matter far less than the behavior you model for them. You seem pretty pessimistic about the possibility of satisfying, long-term relationships. I'd bet real money your kids will pick up on that, regardless of what you tell them. You can decide if this is good or bad. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 3:47:44 PM | Well Cap, I teach my children to respect themselves and to respect other people, to communicate rather than bottle up or avoid conflict altogether. I teach my children to honour their committments to themselves and to others. I teach my children (my son now, my daughter when she is older) than having sex is not something to enter into lightly and to be selective with whom he chooses to be intimate. I teach him to be extremely careful with respect to bc (don't give up his responsibility to himself because she says she is on the pill).
In terms of future dating (he is only 15, she is 4), I intend to try and guide him to always keep his blinders OFF and select people with whom he has a lot in common (interests, values/morals, attitudes, goals) as opposed to basing his choices solely on looks. Will he listen? Probably not...lol, but I do have to try.
No matter what has happened in my life with respect to relationships, I have refused to become jaded about them. I do not have negative attitudes about relationships, love or marriage. I do believe that we are better with someone than alone for many reasons and are not "designed" to live without a partner with whom to share our life. I have at times thrown in the towel so to speak in terms of seeking a partner but never have I been so convinced that I was better off without one that I didn't still want one. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 7:16:09 PM | As a single dad, I was the only parent "directly" instructing my kids along with any example of behaviors they observed. As previously said in other posts, I had a reputation as "lecture dad" to all my kids friends.
I regularly speak to them (even now that they are adults) about the history of human behaviors, the instincts, environment, history and all that shapes us.
Regarding "couple" types of relationships I've given some very specific instructions that started when they were very very little.
What you are about to read ARE generalizations, but based on statistics have become truisms .
1. Boys arent men until about the age of 34. I tell this to my daughter whenever we observe, or she has had a typical stupid male behavior exhibted to her (such as her boyfriends) I tell her that BOYS (with ID) cant even decide on a brand of beer. They'll drink anything, and enjoy the hangover, boasting with their hungover buddies of how much a blast it was to get "wasted". I tell her that BOYS cant COMMIT to anything. Committment is an act of a MAN. I tell it to my son to remind him of society's (and eventually a wife's) expectations of how he should "man up" and take responsibilities on. I've told him to NOT date seriously, that the twit-level of most of the girls of his age range is obvious (he concurs, by the way) . I tell him to go do his adventures, to find his way, to find a CAREER path that he'll be HAPPY to "be stuck in" once he has a mortgage, diapers, saving for college funds, etc. Then he wont feel stuck. I've told him to watch the growth leaps of women as they go through their 20's. Some will be looking for an M-R-S degree right out of highschool, looking to be taken care of by a male wallet. Some will go to college, but not learn any valuable income-producing skill from those 4 years. I tell him that an AA is NOT a degree. I tell him to observe his highschool friends and see those that have the best grasp on reality, versus are out partying.
I've always taught them that the BEST "feeling" is the one that comes from DOING. Dont wait for the feeling to come over you in order to take on a task. The "sense of accomplishment" is the reward. The feeling that comes after is the one to focus on.
I also tell them "Not all feelings are based in reality" when it comes to the whole emotion vs logic. Many people substitute FEELING for REASON and throw all THINKING away. I tell them if it doesnt make sense, dont feel it. Use logic first, THEN see how you feel about it as to how it measures up against what you KNOW.
I've taught them the stupid phrase used about love. I tell them that REAL love, adult love, sensible love.. is NOT "fallen" into. I say those that "fall" have usually hit their head, and are senseless, trying to deal with a physiological reaction to pherenomes and hormones. I tell them the more proper term would be Heels OVER head, with a concussion. I've taught them the difference between bio-instincts (lust) over reason/analysis, intellectual comfort of KNOWING it's right.
I've taught them that love is something that grows, from a combination of all sorts of things that MAKE SENSE. That love ISNT a feeling in standalone mode. It's a culmination of things that are experienced, and that TRUE ADULT LOVE is arrived at because it MAKES SENSE.
I've pointed to the failures out there and they've done the analysis of WHY it failed. Failure is a greater teacher than any other. They've seen it and I've explained the background of it for them to observe.
I've also taught them the evolution of dating/relationships vis-a-vis economics, independence, women's liberation, procreation, societal pressure/expectation and how it ALL is evolving from old school to how it is now.
THAT's what I've taught my kids. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 9:24:33 PM | OMG! I'm sooooo happy to see you here, slingdad (even if you don't know who I am!!) and OP, I was happy to see this topic brought up, as I really struggle with this. I have to say, though, that I adhere to the notion that your children do what they see you do, rather than listen to what you say. Having two daughters near dating age, I feel pressure to be the ultimate role model! I admit I deal by never letting them come in contact with anyone I date, and as a result, don't date much! 
When we speak about it, I tend to speak in "mommyisms", and tell them to pick the one who tells you you're beautiful rather than the one who tells you you're hot, I tell them to choose the guy who calls you back after you've hung up on him. I tell them things of a more personal nature about the relationship between their father and me, about how people change, and how sometimes things just happen, despite YOU. I believe that the relationship between you and you is the most important, and if I can guide them to a place where they are happy with themselves, they'll be able to deal with their interpersonal relationships in a healthy way.
The truth is, you never really know how much you've taught your kids. You have to do what feels right for you. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 10:38:04 PM | My daughter told me a while back that she had been watching me carefully and figured she wasn't going to make the same mistakes I had cuz she is much smarter than me.
She may even be right.
We talk. We talk a lot and I look for the "Montessori moments".
When she was a little kid, I told her to try food and, if she didn't like it, remember that her taste buds would change over the years and to try it again from time to time. She recently told me she's noticed 'the food rule' applies to people too.
I've told her no one is perfect; we all have our flaws and our greatness and as near as I can tell, the secret to life is to give space to their flaws and enjoy their greatness.
I've used hockey as life - you get sent to the box for a transgression, and sometimes it's a bad call and sometimes it's good, but either way, you hit 'reset', shake it off and go back at it.
From our talks, I'd say she has a pretty clear idea of who she is right now, understands that who she is now isn't necessarily going to be where she'll be at 25 when her brain finishes with the white matter (yep we talked about that too) - and she seems to see other people fairly clearly as well. She's got pretty good communication skills and, for a teen, is great at identifying and solving problems.
I figure if she has the basis to navigate the speed bumps in life she's as prepared as I can have her. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/8/2009 11:28:58 PM | Hey, PDX3, I'm not the resident cynic, am I?
Oh yeah, and...
OMG! I'm sooooo happy to see you here, slingdad (even if you don't know who I am!!)
Nice try, it's almost gotta be SJ, I can almost hear you speaking out loud as you type.
For relevant content, Capitan, this has been a very good introspective thread. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/9/2009 4:14:00 AM | ...in fact, in the final analysis, I've never experienced any wonderous or beautiful relationships, so I'd be lying to my boys if I told them something like that.
~capitano~
^^^Sure ya have...just think back to when your boys were born and how you felt back then.
 ...you big marshmellow!
I think we all tell our kids the same thing these days...take things slow...choose wisely..and stay focused on yourself and the direction of your future..
I wish I could teach my kids the lessons I have learned with just a lecture.
I am sure my parents felt the same way when I got married at 20.
Even the most jaded people can't deny that it feels good to feel wanted and appreciated....and perhaps even loved?
I teach my kids compassion and to treat others as they want to be treated.. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/9/2009 4:46:37 AM | What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Guys (Dad included) would rather be in a relationship with someone who looks really good in a swim suit then someone who only looks average in a swim suit. Girls do too. You don't need to be in a serious relationship to be happy. Karma, the golden rule, what goes around comes around; if you treat people right even if a relationship ends you can still be friends. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/9/2009 5:07:04 AM | | What you teach about relationships is taught by how you relate to people, mostly, and hardly by how you account for any one romantic snafu that predates their direct observation. In the way you greet the mailman you are showing more than in the occasional pedantic soliloquy you render on behalf of regret. What is it to relate well? They watch and learn. How you account for your romantic history, they wonder when you'll stop talking. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/9/2009 8:49:02 AM |
I have to say, though, that I adhere to the notion that your children do what they see you do, rather than listen to what you say. Having two daughters near dating age, I feel pressure to be the ultimate role model! I admit I deal by never letting them come in contact with anyone I date, and as a result, don't date much!
And as a result, provide them with no model good or bad. | |
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| What do you teach your kids about relationships?
Posted: 9/12/2009 8:25:21 PM | While I might agree that I have gone a bit overboard as far as not being comfortable with my girls seeing me date, I disagree that, by not doing so, I provide them no role model at all! They see, on a daily basis, that loving oneself, being happy & feeling complete is possible, without "needing" someone else. They see that they can make it on their own. They see that one does not ever have to settle, just so they won't be alone.
Besides, there is so much more to modeling life for your children than the dating aspect. There are many relationships we model for our children. The value we place on our relationship with ourselves and our children is just as important, don't you think? | |
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