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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/13/2009 12:15:55 AM | Thanks! I don't nap during the day. I couldn't even if I wanted to. No matter how tired I am, I can never fall asleep in the day time.
My doctor wanted me to do a sleep study and I checked into it, and it was over $2,000.00. I just don't have the money to do that. I have had RLS at times in the past, and if it's bad, I will take a muscle relaxer for it. I use valerian root, melatonin, or kava kava (not all at once, of course :) All 3 of those will help me fall asleep, but I can never stay asleep.
If I have something really important to do the next day, I will take Ambien and that works for 4 hours for me. I have also tried the Ambien CR and it's way more expensive, and doesn't seem to work any better. Lunesta does not work at all for me.
Like you, I try not to take anything, but I will take something when I haven't had much sleep all week, or if I really need to be sure to get a better night's sleep when I have something important to do the next day.
My doctor's latest idea for me is Neurontin but I notice the next day, I want to eat all day long if I take that. Medicine is a last resort, and I would give anything to just sleep like a normal person. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/13/2009 2:22:48 AM | | Sassy Scorpio, I don't want to tell you what to do, but please let me give you a word of caution. Before you take Ambien again, google the side effects, along with how common they are. Sleep walking, sleep driving, sleep eating, having sex in your sleep, shopping on the internet while sleeping and the list goes on....all with zero memory of the the event the next day! Very dangerous drug in my opinion but I'll stay off the soap box for now! Just know it's highly addictive, despite what they say and the side effects can be brutal and detoxing off of it is like detoxing off a street drug. It's awful! Doesn't sound like you take itt everyday so you may be ok, just be very cautious! | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/13/2009 11:37:59 PM | yes, I have heard of those things happening. I am careful with it. I am lucky that I take it and hop right into bed and wake up 4 hours later. Well not lucky I guess, because my choice would be to wake up 8 hours later like they say on TV- must be able to spend 8 hours in bed before taking it. I have had friends who wake up with ice cream all over their pjs and have no memory of getting out of bed to eat. I only take it on rare occasions like if I need to catch an A.M. flight and can't lay awake all night. My doctor would never give me enough of it to take it on anything but rare occasions anyway.
I have a friend who sleeps 12 hours every night if she wants to, and I tell her constantly that she has no idea how lucky is that she does not have insomnia. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:07:20 PM | clearing the mind of your daily life helps to drift off to sleep.
a simple excersize of the mind,
will help shut the day off, and allow the mind to relax.
count backwards by 3 from 300
sounds silly I know , but it has worked for many | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:18:33 PM | Start at 5am by splitting and stacking wood. Make sure the spot where you split the wood is at least 20 yards from where you stack it. Do this for 12 plus hours. Then find some bleachers and run up and down for another two hours. If you dont fall into a coma after that, well...I dunno.
I've tried various herbal OTC supplements for sleep aids. Not that I needed them, but was simply testing them for their effectiveness. Dosing higher than the normal amount, none of them worked as claimed. Yet that was me and each person will respond differently. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:29:40 PM | I personally will use sleeping pills that have diphenhydramine in them but I have found that after a period of time, I start to get headaches. So I'll use them when I travel and then get myself into the sleep pattern before the headaches come back. Obviously it's not healthy but I need my sleep. I use Sominex and WalGreens brand so I'm not sure if you used prescription pills or not. Regardless, there is a reason why you aren't sleeping and pills aren't the answer as you have found out.
Have you documented your daily weekly habits? Is there anything unusual you are doing or not doing that is preventing you from sleeping? Do you do a lot of reading and work in the bedroom? Watch a lot of tv while in bed? How is your stress level? Are you currently employed or not?
Are you instinctively a night person year round or just when there is more light during summer /spring? It sounds goofy but usually there is a simple reason for a lot of things. However, I firmly believe in self fulfilling prophecies. For example, if you are a person who ambles about in life with the mentality of "without bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all" or "I'm ugly and I'll never have a girl/boy friend", or "I'm always catching something, I'll never get better". Those persons usually end up alone, in jail, and very sick.
It's not to say that if you wake up every day and say to your self "I am going to have one helluva fantastic day" it will happen, but honestly, it couldn't hurt to have that mindset.
Remember doctors in general make money when they prescribe pills for all of lifes' ills. The pharmaceutical industry relies on people like you and when you get healthy without using their medication, they lose a customer.
Find a sleep therapist, if there is one in your area, find a counselor who works on a sliding scale fee, pay as you can concept. I love sleep, I dream about sleep, that's how much I love sleep and it's sad to read about insomniacs, or potential insomniacs.
Let us know what it turns out to be because I can bet there is another POF'er who is having the same issues. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:04:51 AM | Bedlog,
I have struggled with this for more than 10 yrs. I never took anything for the first 3 and just didn't sleep. OTC meds don't even make me sleepy. My diet is likely healthier than any one I know. No caffiene, no sugar, no junk food...protien shakes, chicken and fish is about all I eat, and water. I am in a fast-paced, often times stressful career, along with being a single parent, but my child is about the easiest they come. I watch maybe 2-3 hrs of tv a week, and that is only when I am trying to fall asleep and can't. I've tried hypnosis. Sleep study showed nothing. I have black out shades in my bedroom, along with an expensive mattress, etc. I am at wits end and my sleep specialist and dr are telling me that the amount of sleep I am living on is putting me at risk of several medical complications, including seizures. So, I wonder if I shouldn't give in and go back on some sleeping med. Although I will never touch Ambien again. I am going to start yoga classes this week at the gym near my home to see if that helps at all. I so desperately don't want to be a sleeping pill junkie, and am going to try some of the various advice I've been given on this thread! As far as your concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy, yes, I may be doing that because at this point I literally fear the night time because I know I will be awake for hours and hours unable to sleep.
Thanks to all for you advice and suggestions! | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/16/2009 2:10:50 AM | ^^^^ Speaking of Ambien.... I never had any of those side effects that you described.
But... I took it at 2 am, and it's 5am now and I am still awake.
I thinking it's time to smack my head into the wall, and knock myself out...
Will try some of the ideas from here and let you know is any of those work for me.
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/16/2009 10:34:28 AM | | get plenty of excercise and bet active, that helps reduce anxiety and stress amazingly... and dont follow a low protein/high carb evening meal...that is ridiculous and will have you with even bigger problems trying to get to sleep with upset stomach and poor diet. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/17/2009 1:48:33 PM | I think most of us who have insomnia have already heard all the suggestions- eat right , exercise, don't nap, etc.
I can be dead tired all day long and it's like 9pm somebody turns a switch on and I am more wide awake than I have been all day. It's maddening. I exercise at the gym every morning for a couple of hours no matter how hard it is to drag myself out of bed.
There doesn't seem to be any answer that really does work. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/18/2009 4:04:17 PM | | Sassy Scorpio, Feel free to write me offline anytime if you just need to talk...sounds we have walked the same path. Today is my first day of yoga...praying that will do something. I have also started keeping a sleep journal because I am going to go find another sleep specialist in about another month, I figured I'd collect a month of data first. Last night, 4 am til 7 am. That's pretty typical. I am also going to see a nutritionist. I have cut so much out of my diet trying to eat healthy (I drink 2 protien shakes a day and either chicken or fish for dinner - nothing else) so I'm almost curious if maybe in my quest to eat healthy if I am missing something? Although the protien shakes are supposed to have everything you need??? The difference for me though, is I am never tired in the day, ever. Or at night for that matter. I live on 3 hrs sleep and have more energy than anybody I know. And no, not ADD ( I actually had that checked once and the doc laughed at me, did all the tests and said no, you're normal. Not too sure about the normal part but at least don't have that! Haha) | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/19/2009 5:43:15 AM | | Have you tried PRAYING about it? Ask the Lord to bring you "sweet sleep" every single night, and relax in that. It works. Stop confessing that you can't sleep, start confessing " I am able to get the right amount of sleep I need, every day" | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/19/2009 5:52:14 AM | Forum Goddess
I havent read thru the previous posts - this may have been stated already
Google = L- Theanine, 5 HTP and GABA.
GABA is one of the brains natural calming chemicals. Its also an amino acid ( non essential )
When taking valium, GABA is the amino acid this works on giving you the calming effect.
If you like how valium feels......then getting this amino acid to work to its full potential might be an idea for you.
GABA is iffy in its synthetic form. Some studies show a few brands that do in fact cross the blood brain barrier, some do not.
So the best way to be sure you ARE manipulating your GABA receptors is taking some L- Theanine along with 5 HTP.
Both natural. Both safe. Both work to increase GABA receptors. Both have very lil side effects, those side effects being pleasant.
Do some google searching -- get a few different reputable sites to read from.
You will be amazed at how strong some of these natural remedies can be. I do realize you mentioned you have tried natural products in the past.....I dont know what those where......but when it comes to manipulating the brain waves....not all products can pass the blood brain barrier.
If they can't....they are useless to you.
5 HTP and L-Theanine can and do.
Note. When looking for a reputable brand of L - Theanine ask for some help. You want to make sure you are getting L-theanine in its purest form possible. NOT L -Theanine extract from green tea.
Green tea has L-Theanine and yes its good for you, but what you are looking for is the purer version of L-theanine in a much higher dose than green tea can provide.
If you can mix your L-Theanine with a small dose of 5 HTP...you should feel very relaxed and induce sound sleep.
Again. Do some research here. Start with small doses know what and how to take these.
Your diet/lifestyle is going to be a huge factor in the reasons WHY you may be having this problem in the first place.
Not eating/drinking alot of simple sugars/carbs several hours before bedtime will help as well.
Best of luck | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/19/2009 11:06:22 PM | I am interested in these supplements you are talking about. I have never heard of GABA.
5 HTP made me feel like I took speed. It made me feel shaky and nervous. Do you get the other 2 at a health food store? | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/20/2009 5:15:43 AM | Sassy Scorpio
Im not sure how familiar you are with proteins in your diet. When protein is eaten its broken down into amino acids. These amino acids are what the body needs to build new proteins, send neuro transmissions in the brain, seratonin, dopamine and every single process in your body is dependent on amino acids.
Take a look at your diet. Make sure you are taking in what you need for good health including a healthy brain. Talk over with a health professional what you eat - you may benefit greatly from a simple amino acid complex blend. Easily taken and found at any health food store.
Answering your question....
GABA, L-Theanine and 5 -HTP are all easily available at any reputable
health food store. These 3 are just the beginning, theres alot to choose from.
There should be an isle dedicated to * calming/sleep * herbs and amino acids.
Ask for some help -- explain what you are looking for.
Do some research here. Most everything in these isles can be mixed without a problem. But knowing what you are taking and how it works in your body is a good idea.
Kava kava, St. Johns wort, Gotu kola, 5 HTP, GABA, Passion flower, valerian root, Chamomile, melatonin, L-theanine, Full amino acid blend, Etc etc etc
For instance, I know a fella who takes 200-400 mg of L-Theanine mixed with 1 tablet of melatonin. Both already present in the body and natural.
Taking them together induces relaxation and powerful enough that he cannot drive.
He doesnt get *stupid high* just very very relaxed.
Some mixed together can produce an almost euphoric state. Do your research here. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/29/2009 8:37:06 PM |
"I have cut so much out of my diet trying to eat healthy (I drink 2 protien shakes a day and either chicken or fish for dinner - nothing else) so I'm almost curious if maybe in my quest to eat healthy if I am missing something? Although the protien shakes are supposed to have everything you need??? "
^^^ If you are accurately portraying your diet here you are missing carbohydrates in your diet. Protein is important, but you have to have a balance of protein and carbohydrates for a good diet.
It is possible that the protein shakes you are drinking twice a day have ingredients in them to speed up your metabolism in order for some of their customers to loose weight. A normal maintenance diet does not need to have anything that speeds up your metabolism. Anything that speeds up your metabolism is going to possibly also cause you to have trouble slowing down enough to sleep well.
A healthy diet includes vegetables, fruits, some carbohydrates from whole food sources (like brown rice and potatoes) and high quality protein. Protein shakes are formulated to emphasize the protein component of a healthy diet, because most people eat too many carbohydrates. It sounds to me like you are eating too few, so this is not your problem.
To be really healthy, you can try switching from artificial meal replacers and protein shakes to eating and cooking whole foods from scratch. If you want to eat very healthy spend your money on organic foods without a lot of artificial ingredients.
Amino acids are the building blocks for neurotransmitters in the brain. If you are getting too much of something from the protein shakes you are drinking you might be experiencing an imbalance of amino acids in your body. This is great for energy levels, but bad if you are unable to settle down enough to rest.
I would ask your Doctor to check your thyroid levels to see if you have hyperthyroidism. This would cause some of the symptoms you describe.
You can get very good protein from vegetable sources if you are worried about cholesterol and fats. Beans, lentils, nuts and seeds have a lot of protein, no cholesterol and are lower in fat than most meats. Fish is a good source of complete protein. Chicken without the skin or fat is also very good, but I recommend buying the organic free-range type so you can avoid some things that are added to the chicken feeds that can cause problems. Recently it was reported that many chicken producers were adding a small amount of arsenic to their chicken feed to make them grow faster.
Try cooking whole foods from scratch for a while and seeing how you feel after two weeks. Whole foods are just foods like they come from a farm...not in a package or a can mixed with other things. Look for the items that have one ingredient on the label...a bag of potatoes, for instance, just says "Potatoes" on it.
A nutritionist can help you plan a balanced diet that includes protein, carbohydrates and all the other nutrients without you having to rely on supplements and shakes at all. A good diet should leave you feeling satisfied and not craving anything, with enough energy to get through the day, but also not so wound up that you can't rest at the end of the day.
Carbohydrates are not the enemy. Your body burns carbs for energy.
They are bad if you eat more than your body needs for energy for the next two or three hours at one sitting, and if you eat highly processed starches.
A rule of thumb is that you can tell the highly processed starches because they are usually all "white." Like white flour, (bleached and the vitamins have been stripped off the grains) white rice, white sugar, ect. These sometimes make people sleepy because they cause insulin levels to rise and then drop quickly, causing mood swings. You want your blood sugar to be more stable, so that your body doesn't get toxic levels of glucose circulating in your system (oxidative stress on your internal organs -- like rust.) You do need some carbs every meal, but eat the unprocessed kinds like brown rice, whole potatoes, whole fruits and sweet potatoes instead of processed sugar.
A small snack that includes some carbohydrates just before you go to bed might make you a little more sleepy. For instance, a few almonds or almond butter, and some brown rice crackers, or a small baked red potato with the skin on, and a tablespoon of olive oil, and a few cashews on it.
You don't say how often you are eating. You say you are not tired during the day, but you do have high stress levels. You might be running on andrenaline, which is a hormone secreted as part of the "fight or flight" response of the body to stress. Andrenaline is what surges when you need extraordinary strength in emergency situations. Unfortunately, your andrenaline response can get stuck on "high" and you might end up crashing and burning out your adrenal gland which causes a syndrome called Adrenal Fatigue.
To keep your energy levels high, I recommend eating the same number of calories you currently are, but divide them up into five small meals per day to level out your metabolism.
There are several good books about adrenal fatigue, and adrenal functioning, but many mainstream Doctors are just not diagnosing it enough because most people enjoy the feeling of getting a lot done, and don't make an appointment until the fatigue hits later on, and fatigue is the most common complaint a Doctor hears, so it isn't pointing to anything specific enough for them to make a definitive diagnosis. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/29/2009 8:47:21 PM | You don't have to post the name of the protein shakes you are drinking, but if you list the ingredients, it would help to see what you are, according to your post, eating for 2/3 of your diet. I am concerned that drinking two of these per day for an extended period of time is going to give you more than the recommended amounts of certain things.
Check the labels and look each ingredient up on the internet and see what it is, what the side-effects are, if any, and what they are supposed to accomplish for you. Sometimes there are hidden stimulants in protein shakes that are just fancy names for caffeine.
Another thing to watch out for, is that there are some vitamins that are oil-soluble that you really shouldn't get too much of because they are hard for your body to remove. (Vitamin A, for instance.) The water-soluble vitamins, (like Vitamin C) flush right through your system if you get too much of them (but they put a strain on your kidneys and liver in the process.) | |
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EST74
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Joined: 3/13/2009
Msg: 43 | |
| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:17:42 PM | | Wow as a recovering insomniac I feel your pain. I needed therapy to get to the core of my insomnia and now I'm doing much better but still have my occasional bouts. I would strongly suggest you find out the source of your insomnia because the lack of sleep the effect not the cause. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 10/8/2009 3:52:24 PM | I had insomnia for a while, and here is my take on it. A large part of my insomnia was mental. I didn't see my life going the way I wanted, and would obsess about it. Lying awake at night thinking about what a mess things were. Part of it, to me, seems to be depression. When I am really feeling low, I have a very hard time sleeping.
Also, I am a light sleeper. This may sound funny, but if I snore, I wake myself up. My eyes move in the direction of any noise, even when I have them closed. To combat this I have a 12 inch box fan that I turn on at night and point towards the bed. The hum of the fan drowns out the board creeks, dog barks, and heater clicks that were distracting. The moving air keeps me a little cooler too. Being too warm makes it very difficult to sleep. Now that the weather is cooling down, open the window a crack, and get an extra blanket. Keep the blanket near by and throw it on if you get cool, or take it off when you get warm. If you wake up, just roll over to the other side for a cooler spot on the mattress and pillow. Those memory foam mattresses emit a horrible smell when they get very warm, and reflect a lot of body heat. Your own body heat can affect the foam enough to cause it to smell . I remember the first time I was exposed to one, I thought the cat had done his business in the room. They over-heat the body, in my opinion.
I recently picked up a book on weight loss from the bargain bin at the book store. One thing it mentions, a lot, is blood sugar. The authors claim that even people that aren't diabetic can suffer from severe drops in blood sugar. After reading several chapters and the stories from real-life people in the book, I am more convinced then ever that the blood sugar swings affect sleep. Especially feeling drowsy during the day time after you had a decent night's sleep. I am trying to recall this from memory, but other than eating a healthier diet, and exercising, the authors recommended getting your thyroid levels checked.
Don't go hog wild, and try implementing everything at once. Start with one thing, like the box fan, and see how it goes. I hope this helps you in some way.
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:21:12 AM | What has worked for me in this case is to cut out all caffeine,all sugars,salt,fatty foods and spicy foods and go walking every day when you can. It is called eating healthy.
I do not drink soda at all anymore but caffeine free koolaids and Gatorade,the latter about 24 oz a day. I do not do Alcohol nor any illegal drugs either. 9 yrs Clean and Sober.
Yes drastic but it works and it especially works well if you are on any kind of psychotropic medications for other illnesses.
Nice side benefit is gradual weight loss too.  | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:52:55 AM | | I used to have insomnia problems and what happened with me is that after a while i just accepted that all i was going to get was a few hours. Once i entered that mind set i used to operate at practically all hours and only go to bed when i was truly stuffed. After a while, i started to go to bed earlier and earlier and now i sleep 6 hours regularly. At first i had the same problem as you in that i dreaded going to bed and worrying about having enough energy the next day to get my work done properly but as i accepted my situation it seemed to improve. I guess this all happened over a period of two years between acceptance and sleeping regularly. I think it might be good for you to accept just a few hours of sleep and see how you go. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 10/26/2009 5:45:05 PM | | I've had chronic insomnia all my life (since I was 4!) and found a book that REALLY helped me beat it...and I didn't even finish! LOL Check it out: "Beauty Sleep: Look Younger, Lose Weight, and Feel Great Through Better Sleep" by Dr. Michael Breuse (only $6 on amazon). Actually, the book I used was called "Goodnight : (something about a 4 week plan for getting the best sleep, can't remember)", but actually "Beauty Sleep" is a newer updated version and even better (I have both). I really recommend that book to anyone who has sleeping problems, not just chronic insomnia. | |
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| What would you do??? Insomnia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 10/27/2009 10:32:23 AM | Hey ForumGoddess,
Sorry to hear that you are having this problem. I too have suffered with insomnia for years. I literally have had to find a job where I start late in the afternoon due to this problem. Trying to function at a job, drive a car, take care of children etc. It is crazy when you are sleep deprived. You can't concentrate and are forgetful. I used to be addicted to sleep medication as well but found that I was groggy all day until the evening. The only thing that I have found really works is vigorous exercise. Unfortunately, it won't kick in right away but eventually it will go a long way.
I noticed that you have a clean diet etc but I didn't see any mention of exercise until one of your latest posts. I hope that your first yoga session went well. Keep it up and hopefully you will start to sleep soundly.
If you need to talk you can always message me in private.
Hugs,
Christina | |
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