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 Author Thread: Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 26
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/13/2009 2:35:18 PM

Guys. If you look at a CNN, NY Times or Fox, NPR ect... poll you are gonna get different numbers every time. Gallup currently has the best reputation as a polling company. This comes from my college classes. Otherwise you might as well split the difference between the various media outlets.


That is why I used Real Clear Politics when possible for political they average out close to all the current polls currently out there.

Before using other polls I will try and find the demographics of the people being polled. (I will often note that this is unknown if I can't find them) If it is to be a poll reflective of America's feelings then the poll takers should reflective of America's demographics.
In politics that means that there probably should be around a third republicans, a bit over a third democrats and about a forth independents.
According to Rasmussen there seems to be 32-33% Republicans, 37-38% Democrats with about 25% independents. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/partisan_trends (Political affiliation % numbers of America)

I don't really have a problem with polls that are just 5 percentage points higher or lower off in the type of demographics they should be using. It's when demographics % are 10 to 20 % lower higher in one or more areas. That is usually indicative of that there were be a bias in one direction or the other.
Most of the polls that came out right after Obama's Health Care Speech had slanted demographics or demographics that could not be distinguished. That is why I said it might be better for some better polls for comparison.

The 52% disapproval is before Obamas speech but is reflective of quite a few polls.
So I'm not really jumping off or on any bandwagons with the Heath Care Polls.
 sd_matt

Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 27
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/14/2009 2:37:58 PM
Yeah Rasmussen is another good one.

I can't say this enough people. Go onto YouTube or Break.com and watch videos of the people who warning us of impending economic troubles before 2005. As far as I'm concerned those are the only ones you should be listening to.
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 28
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/14/2009 2:45:26 PM
This is encouraging.


<div class="quote">A new study finds that a majority of physicians support the creation of a public health care option.
A Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF) study published in Monday's New England Journal of Medicine shows that 63 percent of physicians support a health reform proposal that includes both a public option and traditional private insurance. If the additional 10 percent of doctors who support an entirely public health system are included, then approximately three out of four physicians nationwide support inclusion of a public option. Only 27 percent support a private-only reform that would provide subsidies for low-income individuals to purchase private insurance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/majority-of-doctors-back_n_286352.html
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 29
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/15/2009 7:55:55 PM
In the most current poll it looks like many do not have any cofidence in what it will achieve if passed.

Six in 10 say Obama's proposal, if enacted, would not achieve his goals of expanding coverage to nearly all Americans without raising taxes on the middle class or lowering the quality of health care. For the first time, a majority disapprove of the way he's handling health care

Currently the Gallup Polls are showing 50% suppor t Obama's Health Care Reforem and 47% against.
policy.http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-14-obama-poll_N.htm?csp=34
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 30
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:14:45 PM

In the most current poll it looks like many do not have any cofidence in what it will achieve if passed.


It's really a shame that those opposed to health care reform have to lie about it in order to scare some of those who need it the most into believing that it would deny them care, if people had the facts they could make an informed decision, death panels, rationing are just two of the many lies circulated by those who are in bed with the health care industry
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 31
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/16/2009 1:23:51 PM
From Polls conducted days after Obama’s speech it looks like Americans still do not have faith in Obama’s Health Care Reform Plan.

It does however look like most Americans do want to see some type of reform, just not what Obama and his people are pushing.


PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans are skeptical that President Obama's healthcare plan will be able to accomplish all he intends -- to expand coverage to nearly all Americans without raising taxes on middle-class Americans or affecting the quality of care. Thirty-eight percent believe his plan will achieve all of these goals, while 60% do not think it will
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122969/Many-Americans-Doubt-Costs-Benefits-Healthcare-Reform.aspx


Later on the Gallup Poll in summary says.

Despite the fact that half of Americans support the idea of new healthcare legislation, many fewer are convinced that President Obama's healthcare reform plan can expand coverage and maintain quality while not increasing middle-class taxes, and that the plan can be paid for mostly through cost savings in the existing healthcare system.
The poll suggests that support could drop if Americans come to believe the middle class will be asked to bear an increased burden in terms of higher taxes, higher medical costs, or diminished quality in order to expand healthcare coverage to those who currently lack it.
With 50% of Americans backing healthcare reform in principle, it is unclear whether the president has enough of a public mandate at this point to convince reluctant members of Congress to vote for healthcare reform. Equally unclear is whether public support for healthcare reform will grow or decrease in the coming weeks as more details of the plan are hammered out in Congress. But as Congress continues to do its work, the president and other supporters of healthcare reform have an opportunity to continue making their case to Americans, and to allay some of the public's doubts about what their vision of reform would accomplish and at what cost http://www.gallup.com/poll/122969/Many-Americans-Doubt-Costs-Benefits-Healthcare-Reform.aspx
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 32
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/18/2009 12:01:59 AM
Polls, polls and more polls...all tweaked to one's perception...it's time for some real numbers...

Premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance rose to an average of $13,375 annually for family coverage this year, with employees on average paying $3,515 and employers paying $9,860, according to a new survey.

The benchmark 2009 Employer Health Benefits Survey, released by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust, found that family premiums rose about 5 percent in 2009. That’s more than general inflation, which fell 0.7 percent, and workers’ wages, rising 3.1 percent, during the same period.

Since 1999, premiums have gone up 131 percent. That’s far more than than workers’ wages, up 38 percent, or inflation, up 28 percent, over the same time period.

The survey found that 60 percent of firms offered health benefits to workers in 2009, but the smaller the firm, the less likely it is to offer health benefits. It found just 46 percent of the smallest employers, who have three to nine workers, offer health benefits.

Among those firms offering benefits, 21 percent report they reduced the scope of health benefits or increased cost sharing due to the economic downturn, and 15 percent report they increased the worker’s share of the premium.

The survey further reveals that a growing number of workers who are covered by their employer are facing high deductibles in their plans in addition to contributing to the premiums for their coverage.

In 2009, 22 percent of covered workers must pay at least $1,000 out of pocket annually for single coverage before their plan will pay a share of their health care bills, up from 18 percent last year.

Now in its 11th year, the survey is a joint project of the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust, an affiliate of the American Hospital Association.

It was conducted between January and May and included 3,188 randomly selected, non-federal public and private firms with three or more employees.

http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2009/09/14/daily62.html
131%...the baby boomers are (or nearing) nearing 65...they gotta grab that cash before medicare sets in...profit taking at it's best!

Real people want real change...but their only stipulation is "don't make me pay for it"...well..guess what..."you can't have your cake and eat it to..."

We all learned that in grade school...what is your solution?
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 33
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 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 34
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/18/2009 12:50:06 PM
Polls once said... "Dewey Wins" and the Chicago newspapers lost a lot of money...
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 35
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/18/2009 1:05:03 PM
"Six in 10 say Obama's proposal, if enacted, would not achieve his goals of expanding coverage to nearly all Americans without raising taxes on the middle class or lowering the quality of health care. For the first time, a majority disapprove of the way he's handling health care "

Of the six in ten, how many do you suppose have actually read any one of the proposed health care plans?

Why would they have the opinion that the plan would raise taxes when Obama is standing before the world stating that it won't and the CBO is backing him up?
And what's truly comical is that health insurance costs have increased 420% over the past 10 years so people are paying more and more directly to the insurance companies... so if there's no public option / low cost alternative, then insurance companies are free to continue that trend... people will pay more and maybe a lot more but they'll be able to say that their taxes didn't go up!
In short, no public option means we're going to put our faith in insurance companies to do the right thing rather than our own government... ohhh yah... maybe you'd also like to consider buying this bridge?
 jack-d-ripper

Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 36
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/18/2009 11:00:21 PM
.



....With a Media Blitz of $300 MILLION .... Opinions will happen. That is a LOT of $$$



.
 CountIbli

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 37
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/20/2009 5:46:54 PM


It's really a shame that those opposed to health care reform have to lie about it in order to scare some of those who need it the most into believing that it would deny them care, if people had the facts they could make an informed decision, death panels, rationing are just two of the many lies circulated by those who are in bed with the health care industry


It's really a shame that those people who support Obama's idiotic "reforms" have to misrepresent Obama's opponents as "opposed to health care reform".
 CountIbli

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 38
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/20/2009 6:00:12 PM

Why would they have the opinion that the plan would raise taxes when Obama is standing before the world stating that it won't and the CBO is backing him up?


The plan will raise costs. So either the insurance companies will raise premiums or the government will subsidize it. Perhaps you think that the government won't raise taxes to pay for it, but I find this as likely as insurance companies not raising premiums and taking the financial hit themselves.

Edit: I suppose the other option is that the government just prints more money to pay for it, but then the American people will pay for it in the form of inflation.
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 39
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:38:20 AM
"The plan will raise costs"

Prove it... don't just say it... PROVE IT

You can't... because there is no proof... only the rhetoric from those that brought you
Absolute Facts...
Republicans have held the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years
Republicans have held control of the congress for 14 of the last 16 years
Republicans have held both the presidency AND control of the congress for 6 of the last 8 years...
In the same period, our national debt has gone from under $ 2 trillion to over $ 11 trillion...
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 40
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:42:03 AM
The American Medical Association announces 76% of U.S. physicians are in favor of Obama's health care plan including the public option...

The American Pharmaceutical Association just released a position paper announcing they are in favor of Obama's health care plan including the public option...


Seems the only folks truly against it are those with a different political agenda...
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 41
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/24/2009 8:07:15 AM

Prove it... don't just say it... PROVE IT


What has the goverment touched that hasn't made the costs skyrocket? Why can private schools educate on a shoestring while public schools spent three to four times per student for a subpar education. The post office takes in hundreds of millions a day and is always on the verge of being bankrupt but FedEx and UPS show profits every year. Medicaid and social security are on the verge of being bankrupt. You name it, the government touches it and it turns to crap.

Why don't you prove it isn't? Because you can't either. But based on the past, the odds are I'm right and you're wrong.


Republicans have held the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years


So?


Republicans have held control of the congress for 14 of the last 16 years


Again, so?


In the same period, our national debt has gone from under $ 2 trillion to over $ 11 trillion....


And the majority of that 11 trillion has been since Obama took office.


The American Medical Association announces 76% of U.S. physicians are in favor of Obama's health care plan including the public option...


Actually it's 76% of doctors in their association, which is about 15 to 20% of all doctors in the country. Most doctors don't want this plan, they know it will ruin healthcare as we know it, and most people are happy with their healthcare as it is.
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 42
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:32:27 PM
"private schools educate on a shoestring while public schools spent three to four times per student for a subpar education"

Not in my neighborhood... public schools spend about $ 6000 per student while private schools charge $ 12,000 to $ 27,000. Further, public school is primarily funded from the state and local levels.

"The post office takes in hundreds of millions a day and is always on the verge of being bankrupt but FedEx and UPS show profits every year. "

The U.S. Postal Service is, unfortunately, not run like a business. Also please realize that Fedex and UPS only took the cream of the business... overnight service and parcels... not letters. Further, the prices charged by Fedex and UPS are vastly higher than those charged by the USPS... even for overnight service and parcels.

"And the majority of that 11 trillion has been since Obama took office."

Your credibility went straight out the window with that statement. Do you really believe Obama has already overspent the budget by $ 11 trillion? The deficit for the year is projected at around $ 1 trillion.

"Most doctors don't want this plan"

Kindly quote sources and data.

Statements on past Republican control of our federal government... are made to suggest that they should take their fair share of responsibility... the long standing conservative right approach of cutting taxes and over spending the budget does not work... 28 years of data proves it with the end result being the state of our economy.
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 43
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/25/2009 9:41:57 AM
Here's the problem the administation is facing. First of all the president came out and said health care reform would provide coverage to more people at a higher level and would not cost more. After the CBO came out and shot that claim down the president lost a lot of credibility on the issue. The second problem for the administration and democrats in general is current plans being considered takes 100 billion dollars out of Medicare Advantage. 11 million seniors are enrolled in that plan. They like, they'll see benefit reductions, they're mad, and they vote in higher numbers than other demographic groups. So the polls don't accurately reflect the opposition to reform. Look at this way. Who's more likely to vote in 2010? The 25 year old who got all caught up in Yes We Can or a mad as heck senior.
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 44
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/25/2009 3:24:04 PM

Here's the problem the administation is facing. First of all the president came out and said health care reform would provide coverage to more people at a higher level and would not cost more. After the CBO came out and shot that claim down the president lost a lot of credibility on the issue. The second problem for the administration and democrats in general is current plans being considered takes 100 billion dollars out of Medicare Advantage. 11 million seniors are enrolled in that plan. They like, they'll see benefit reductions, they're mad, and they vote in higher numbers than other demographic groups. So the polls don't accurately reflect the opposition to reform. Look at this way. Who's more likely to vote in 2010? The 25 year old who got all caught up in Yes We Can or a mad as heck senior.


Do you have sources for 100,ooo billion taken from Medicare Advantage? Is it an estimate our is their data to support it, I would like to see it since you know where it is in the bill maybe you could direct me to the right page
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 45
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 12:53:04 AM
Do you have sources for 100,ooo billion taken from Medicare Advantage?

Earl you know I do This work for ya?
From the Atlantic
Democrats aim to cut as much as $120 billion from private insurers in Medicare Advantage over 10 years. CBO head Doug Elmendorf told lawmakers that those cuts "could lead many plans to limit the benefits they offer, raise their premiums, or withdraw from the program”
And this from that bastion of right wing conservatism MSNBC
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus is proposing to cut more than $100 billion over 10 years from Medicare Advantage plans.
But wait till this gets out.
Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.
Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_090925_document2.html

maybe you could direct me to the right page

why, you wouldn't read it.
 Acoustic-Blues

Joined: 7/19/2008
Msg: 46
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 5:54:52 AM

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail


How do you see a problem with this, at least they will have health care while they are incarcerated. Health care for all ya know
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 47
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:42:22 AM

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_090925_document2.html

Discusses Sec. 7203 of the Tax Code. (failure to pay taxes).

Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly NOTHING about health care.
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 48
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:55:49 AM
Re: $120 billion in cuts to Medicare Advantage.

More than 10 million seniors enrolled in an enhanced, private version of Medicare known as Medicare Advantage - including 175,000 in Massachusetts - could see their plans shrink or be replaced with traditional coverage under the health care overhaul plans proposed by Democrats in Congress.

Democrats want to cut Medicare Advantage by more than $120 billion over 10 years. It could leave seniors with fewer boutique Medicare options offered through private insurance companies or with private plans that offer fewer of the extra benefits such plans provide.

Republicans have seized on Medicare Advantage cuts to accuse President Obama of fudging the truth with his oft-repeated pledge that seniors’ Medicare benefits will not be reduced. Under the health care overhaul proposals as written, traditional Medicare would still be open to all Americans age 65 and over, and the standard benefits would not change.

Private insurers can afford to offer extras under Medicare Advantage - such as lower premiums and coverage for eyeglasses and gym memberships - because the federal government pays them about 14 percent more per patient than Medicare typically spends.

Many health policy specialists say that, with Medicare nearing bankruptcy and millions of Americans going without any insurance at all, the United States can hardly afford to offer a pricier Medicare version that is growing more popular.

“The [Medicare Advantage] beneficiaries have gotten a very good deal from these overpayments. These are good services,’’ said Robert Berenson, a health policy specialist at the Urban Institute. “But it’s a very inefficient way to give people extra benefits.’’

The $120 billion cut to Medicare Advantage is part of spending reductions in Medicare totaling $460 billion to $540 billion over 10 years that have been proposed by Democrats. The cuts would fall on the government reimbursement rates for a broad variety of providers such as hospitals and home health agencies, which could probably absorb them without affecting the services elderly Americans receive, many specialists said in interviews.

Though some industry groups complain the spending reductions are too severe, adjustments could be made if problems arose because they would be phased in gradually. Most are aimed at making the programs more efficient.

“We think the proposals actually will improve access and quality,’’ John Rother, a leading lobbyist for the AARP, the large lobbying organization for senior citizens, said in an e-mail.

But Republicans have seized on Medicare spending reductions as a political bludgeon aimed at the health care overhaul.

Seniors are a key constituency, and “scaring seniors’’ with attack ads is a perennial campaign tactic for both parties.

Polls show that Republicans, who began decrying the Democrats’ Medicare proposals last summer, have already helped turn seniors against the president’s health care overhaul.

That is despite the GOP’s own proposals to cut Medicare by 14 percent over seven years in the mid-1990s, said health economist Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, a Washington research group.

The White House is scrambling to fight back. Yesterday it released a seven-page report titled “Health Insurance and Medicare: Making Medicare Stronger for Seniors’’ that emphasizes the upside of a health overhaul: major prescription drug discounts for seniors, free preventive services such as mammograms and colonosopies, and investments in higher quality care.

James Roosevelt Jr., chief executive of Tufts Health Plan, a Massachusetts plan with 83,000 Medicare Advantage subscribers, said the effect of the Medicare Advantage cuts will depend on how they are made.

The House Democrats’ proposal might not dramatically change Tufts’s offerings, he said. But the Senate version would be “quite devastating to what is available to our Medicare Advantage members,’’ he said.

Most of the rest of the Democrats’ Medicare spending reductions involve asking providers to accept a slower-than-expected rate of growth in payments over the next decade.

Some, such as payments to home health care agencies, were previously recommended by the Medicare Payment Assessment Commission.

Stuart Guterman, assistant vice president for the Commonwealth Fund’s payment system reform program, said, “This policy is saying something that providers ought to be able to do.’’

Some specialists worry seniors could be harmed indirectly. Gail Wilensky, who ran Medicare under President George H.W. Bush, notes that many nursing homes depend on getting overpaid by Medicare to offset the stingy payments states provide for Medicaid patients.

Curtailing those overpayments could strain those fragile institutions, she said.

But health policy specialists said the cuts should be considered in the context of a larger problem: Medicare is on the verge of going broke.

“We can think that the status quo means everybody has everything they have now, but that is all in danger if we don’t do anything,’’ Guterman said.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/09/24/democrats_seek_cuts_in_medicare_advantage/
 geeleebee

Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 49
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 8:06:55 AM
Does anyone seriously not get the connection between the outright lies being told about Obama and his poll numbers?
If all you read/heard was gossip/rumor/lies, and didn't bother to look beyond them, wouldn't you believe it?

Simple-minded people stop thinking after they read the morning spam.
Then, they search for a poll to fit the spam.
Then, they spread that misinformation around, thereby contributing to the negativity.

One ugly snowball.
You betcha.
 sum1reel

Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 50
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Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 10:07:50 AM

Most doctors don't want this plan, they know it will ruin healthcare as we know it, and most people are happy with their healthcare as it is.


actually, most doctors do( and always have) wanted a healthcare plan overhaul simply because the Insurance carriers have become obstructionists in the delivery of healthcare in terms of denying what is medically necessary. At the same time, these said companies are using less and less of their healthcare dollars on 'actual' healthcare spending as much of goes to pay dividends, massive CEO salaries, etc.

The only pple who are happy with their healthcare are:
1. our elected leaders who have guaranteed care on a "carte-blanche" plan
2. Those who profit from the pain and misery of others who don't have adequate coverage.
3. Those who work for the healthcare industries (or many of their Shills).
4. Those stupid enuff not to know how easy it is to lose the coverage they currently have, or not knowing how lucky they are...in having the the coverage they now enjoy!
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