| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 9/30/2009 8:44:31 AM |
Bowling For Columbine was my first exposure to Michael Moore, I was really interested in what he had to say. The movie left me wondering why the hell he was so bent on pushing his own agenda, bending lies & truth to his whims in a fashion that would even make Spin leader Bill O'Reilly blush, and yet never answer any of the questions that would maybe have shed some light on why America may have more murders and accidents with guns than other countries with large gun ownership. He just harasses people, edits with glee and forces his opinions without a lick of care for common honesty. I don't care to see his movies because of his abusive bias and lack of ability to see any side but his own. I was hoping he was going to make a difference, but all he is, is another editorialist with no more ethics than a Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Bowling For Columbine was an insult to those who lost their lives that day. Michael Moore is nothing but a Spin Doctor, just like the rest of his ilk.
I couldn't have said this any better myself.
I've often made the observation that Michael Moore is nothing more than the left wing equivalent of Rush Limbaugh. Same lunatic, different side of the fence.
I've loved all of Moore's films, but I think they are stronger when he lets his subjects speak for themselves and keeps behind the camera.
Or behind the editing machine. Like when he takes statements from Charlton Heston out of context to make it sound like he's saying something he's not actually saying. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 9/30/2009 4:41:40 PM |
I've often made the observation that Michael Moore is nothing more than the left wing equivalent of Rush Limbaugh. Same lunatic, different side of the fence.
Wow, that's like saying Martin Luther King and the KKK are the same - just on different sides of the fence. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 9/30/2009 6:44:39 PM |
Wow, that's like saying Martin Luther King and the KKK are the same - just on different sides of the fence. No, it's nothing like that at all. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 9/30/2009 6:49:33 PM |
Wow, that's like saying Martin Luther King and the KKK are the same - just on different sides of the fence. More like Louis Farrakhan and the KKK....... | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 9:56:05 AM | ^You beat me to it. That was the exact comparison I had typed up.
Michael Moore is not a typical liberal. He is a caracature of everything liberalism stands for. He makes honest, intelligent, fair-minded liberal people look bad by association much in the same way Rush does with conservative people. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 9:58:44 AM | | ^^^ thats a great point u made, iam a conserative that doesnt listen to rush, but yet iam always lumped in with that guy. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 2:19:00 PM | PLUS - Just out today... He's a multimillionaire who complains that "Capitalism did nothing for me!". I guess those stupid worn out ball caps he wears are supposed to be "poor man" camouflage. The ruse seems to be working for him, but he maintains it's not capitalism. ("Do as I say, not as I do".)
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54833 | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 3:33:59 PM | PLUS - Just out today... He's a multimillionaire who complains that "Capitalism did nothing for me!". I guess those stupid worn out ball caps he wears are supposed to be "poor man" camouflage. The ruse seems to be working for him, but he maintains it's not capitalism. ("Do as I say, not as I do".) So how does he spend the money that he earns?
What are his motives for making making films?
Unless you can answer those question your point has zero meaning and can only be seen as an nonobjective opinion.
There are lots of people that do what they do because that is what they are good at, the fact that some of them are able to earn more money at it does not prove that capitalism is good for anyone, other than the top 1%.
I would say he is not against people being able to earn a buck, but there should be a limit. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 3:38:54 PM | The actual quote is
“Well, capitalism did nothing for me, starting with my first film.” “You know, I had to pretty much beg, borrow and steal,” he said. “The system is not set up to help somebody from the working class make a movie like this and get the truth out there.”
“In fact, in Fahrenheit 9/11 if you remember, capitalism, the Disney Corporation, tried to kill that film--tried to make it so that people couldn’t see it,” said Moore. “My book Stupid White Men--Harper Collins tried to kill that book so that people couldn’t see it. It's only because I put the light of day on it and told people what was going on did people get the chance to see these things.”
Also there's this:
Despite their personal investment, the Weinstein brothers will not be the biggest financial beneficiaries of "Fahrenheit." The real winner: a charity, or charities, as yet unnamed, that will receive about 60 percent of the net profit ultimately generated by the film -- a tally that could be tens of millions of dollars.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0702-07.htm
Moore also supports Raising Malawi
Volunteer organisation which helps orphans in one of the poorest countries in the world (Malawi) by providing water, food, medical care and schooling.
http://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/1402-michael-moore
Also, in his interview with Larry King last week, Moore mentioned projects that he was working on in Flint, Michigan including building a public library in his hometown.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/
And of course, from those who've actually watched the movie Sicko, they already know about this. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hou2cY_plOM | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 3:59:32 PM | Michael Moore reminds me of a fat tick. The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it.
Capitalism has made the U.S. standard of living the envy of the world. Communism is terrific. Just ask those Cubans risking their lives on home made rafts heading for Florida. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 4:06:52 PM | ^^^lol. . . funny thing about the news. It's updated daily.
Yup, those communists are really suffering.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/malcolmmoore/100012052/the-communists-have-conquered-the-empire-state-building/ | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/1/2009 6:19:50 PM | Somehow Michael Moores little film about health care neglected to mention the thousands of Cuban doctors risking their lives to go to the U.S. Even the NY Times admits it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/health/04cuba.html?scp=2&sq=cuba&st=cse
Moore is the perfect example of what comrad Lenin referred to as "Useful Idiots" | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 4:05:54 AM | I like Moore and his layman’s presentation on issues. It’s good that he’s one of the few that is presenting documentaries etc on the big screen. I think there’s enough escapist diversions that most people end up watching. Main stream media certainly isn’t presenting in depth reports of big issues out there for sure. They’ve flip flopped over 911 and the WMD issue and slandered people brave enough to not buy the initial reports and shallow views on what happened. Initial estimates and blind patriotism wasted billions and thousands of lives to attack Iraq which had no real hand in the bombings. The media essentially went along with the US administrations belief that Hussein and Iraq were behind the bombings. And now all of a sudden Obama et al think Afghanistan is behind all the terrorism. Moore talked about the Bin Laden connection and their influence in Washington. All documented solid evidence and how they were allowed to leave right after the bombings. Certainty even if Chomsky presented his view on these matters even with all his academically accepted data, the neo cons and what not would still ignore the real situation. Chomsky farther can barely get on mainstream media. It’s like most people choose to ignore this stuff buying the superficial icing rather than really looking at the big picture. Massive debt and causalities are being ignored by most people. So because of this ignorance and usury by the elite running Washington, the whole planet is in a massive world-wide recession. A business as usual mentality pervades despite that fact that’s it’s not working. Munitions manufacturers, the banking industry or middle-eastern lobbyists don’t care how much debt and people die, they just care about furthering their means. Unbridled capitalism or whatever it is now isn’t working. Massive corporate debt and ceo plunderers and parachuters didn’t work. Oligopolies and monopolies are the companies who are running the world now. They aren’t really competitive and don’t care about outsourcing, downsizing or pollution that is occurring. They want the full market, to make cheap product and maximize profits at all costs regardless of what it does to their country or their people. Bill Gates is still running explorer for windows for example because he had so much money he stalled or bought off all the lawyers or judges so competitors couldn’t get in as easily as they should have been in a free market. Someone said something about freedom and liberating the world in WWII. Heard of the Breton Wood agreement? And what about freedom of speech, what real freedom of speech is there now? You can’t say what you really may want and you can’t talk on the net or on a phone without it being monitored now because of the Patriot Act. The event that “liberated Europe,” Pearl Harbor was a setup. They knew the Japanese were spying more, they moved the whole fleet there and the generals f*cked off that weekend. And on communism... Where did the commies get their money for the revolution, from banks in New York? And what were the real backgrounds of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and his inner circle for that matter? WWII was a power shift away from Europe, the establishment of a country in the middle east and a number of other things. The Treaty of Versailles helped create Hitler. The big Three partitioned off Eastern Europe to Stalin (yeah the US and Britain sold off “the Polish dogs” said Churchill.) Funny the Poles are pretty quick to fight lately after that decision. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 6:56:31 AM | | Going to see this tonight, for sure. Looks great and , needless to say, very timely. Personally I've liked pretty much all of his other work so far (despite occasional factual errors I have heard in Fahrenheit 911; overall I still think it was definitely an important film to bring out). Moore's become an important social gadfly IMO, and I love how he puts these people on the spot and calls them out and such. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 12:23:02 PM |
Somehow Michael Moores little film about health care neglected to mention the thousands of Cuban doctors risking their lives to go to the U.S. Even the NY Times admits it.
Hell, if I knew that 50 miles away there was country where the people were dumb enough to pay 6 times the cost for the same level of care I'd move too!
But back on topic! I hope to see it this weekend. If you get to see it, post your review here! | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 12:47:02 PM |
So how does he spend the money that he earns?
What are his motives for making making films?
Unless you can answer those question your point has zero meaning and can only be seen as an nonobjective opinion.
There are lots of people that do what they do because that is what they are good at, the fact that some of them are able to earn more money at it does not prove that capitalism is good for anyone, other than the top 1%.
I would say he is not against people being able to earn a buck, but there should be a limit.
The very same questions can be asked of your position. Moore is no different than the opportunistic t-shirt vendor who goes to the corner and waits for some issue - any issue - to arise. Then he prints up t-shirts pro or con (or if smart - both!) and proceeds to sell as many as he can while the issue is still hot. Then, he moves on to the next issue to CAPITALIZE on it.
He doesn't discover new issues. He jumps on those already in the minds of his viewers. Much like a kid placing burning bags of dogpoop on doorstoops. You already know you live in a questionable neighborhood. His actions just underscore the fact - again. For all the outrageous stunts and insults he presents on screen - how many have in fact resulted in positive changes - due solely to his "talent"?
When asked about his earnings, he never directly answers the questions. Instead, he answers questions with questions. He CLAIMS to be contributing to an "As yet undisclosed charity"? I've heard that one before. Let me guess...The "Michael Moore and George Constanza - Human Fund"? | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 1:42:50 PM | That he gives to charity is good. That he distorts is not so.
Bowling for Columbine; Ask any cop who has been on the street for a few years or more what would happen if all guns and/all ammo were made illegal. Ask him just how much of an effect it would have on crime.
Roger and Me; If I understand the premise correctly it is that the fat paychecks of the corporate bosses drove General Motors down. Whenever I watch a history show, classic car channel, or some economics show, there is only one thing consistent; gas prices went up and the Japanese had the superior econo car. Now my step dad worked for GM and says it's corrupt top to bottom, unions and all. So apparently there was more than one thing hurting GM but Moore would have you believe that is was only the bosses.
Capitalism; I'm gonna go out on a limb here....big evil corporate bosses rob the people and nothing else. Hmmm.....well it just so happens that I have been watching the people that predicted this economic collapse for a couple years now. One is a liberal, another is a libertarian, another is a professor and so on....They have some common views.
...anyone here wanna guess whether or or not they assign all the blame to Wall Street? | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 4:16:03 PM | I personally don't care about how much money Moore makes. I'm sure he's no Coppola or Speilberg. What he's doing on the screen and trying to make people more aware of what maybe going on is the main thing. We all need to make money like it or not. I'm sure some big corporate type makes much more on the backs of millions then does Moore.
I look at what going on in Western civilization as an eclectic problem. It's not just one group. It's the odd owner, manager, investor, politician or lobbyist that are part of the whole problem. Even what some people consider success and how to attain success be it financial is what maybe the real problem. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 7:11:40 PM | Moore is a showman. He's doing a public service by getting the word out regarding how we were reamed by Wall St. I don't care if he's a hypocrite and I don't care how much he makes. If he can get things done, that's what matters. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 7:19:28 PM | ^^ I agree. I'm sure he's made a good deal of money in his career (capitalist pig ) but at the same time he's (IMO at least) an important social gadfly, as I said I think before, and if he can raise the awareness of the IMO largely complacent middle & lower middle classes, especially with regards to this most recent crisis, then I suppose he deserves his paycheck every bit as much as the baseball or football player who gets the same or more just for playing a game. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/2/2009 7:41:57 PM |
and if he can raise the awareness of the IMO largely complacent middle & lower middle classes, especially with regards to this most recent crisis, then I suppose he deserves his paycheck every bit as much as the baseball or football player who gets the same or more just for playing a game.
The question there is "Does he actually do that?".
In this current movie he goes up to the Goldman-Sachs building in NY and pulls out his bullhorn before trying to barge into the building. The scene is about the bailout money G-S got through TARP.
So how many people are going to see this movie and then go on ranting about how evil G-S is for getting goobermint bailout money? And at what point is Moore going to do a follow-up movie to explain to those people that G-S actually paid back every penny they got before the movie was even made? Because the over-whelming majority of the people that see the movie aren't going to go and do any independent research on their own...
And that is the problem with Moore, IMO. He uses his bully-pulpit to distort the truth and make his point. But a large portion of his audience doesn't understand that his movies are distortions and he never goes back and tells them that he left out 95% of the truth that didn't fit his agenda.
Is he really raising awareness or is he just spreading misinformation? Is a person actually "aware" when they only know of one (distorted) side of the story? | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/3/2009 2:46:36 AM | There are so many people who hate Moore for some reason. Why because he's fat or has an opinion?
I think alot of people think he's unpatriotic or doesn't dutifully subscribe to the American dream or some sickos who are views as pillars in it. Well he maybe one of the biggest patriots around. Most of what he says is because he wants to improve things. What massive debt, stupid wars (by blindly following Bush or the nut bars behind him,) or supporting insurance companies scams is bad for America?!?
Like I said you could have a brilliant academic like Chomsky, a MIT linguist political commentator with boatloads of valid strong data and many people still don't give a dam if their wrong. Some of these people still want to scam, pretend everything's fine, pretend it's survival of the fittest if we were just apes, and can't see how they've been used because it makes them look stupid.
You think Fox or CNN are good media groups?!? Their stories are usually short shallow PC bites designed for tv and bird brain attention spans watching it now. Big corporations with vested interests in big business or political agendas are running the media.
So if you hate Moore so much ignore him. I wish I could ignore the BS on tv and what most of the herd eats up. Many too stupid to see the big plan, whose hiding behind the laws and media and schemes and who's using them. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/3/2009 9:59:03 AM | Goldman Sachs could NEVER pay us back for the damage they've done! What are you smokin'? Have you read Matt Taibbi's article? Tell me, what IS the "other side of the story?"
Goldman Sachs has infiltrated every aspect of our government and has milked the country dry.
You need to read more. | |
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Sannia
| Joined: 9/11/2009 Msg: 75 | |
| Capitalism: A Love Story Posted: 10/3/2009 10:34:13 AM | he didn't really need to compare the US with Cuba. The comparison with some countries in Europe would have been enough. There is a qualitative difference between communism and socialism ( a socialist/controlled economy). No need to go to Cuba where democracy is not really happening. One needs to stay in the middle: Neither capitalism nor communism proved to be working as Systems. Yes, Michael Moore is ok, but he needs to amplify his radar, as far as comparisons go. | |
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