| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:02:15 AM | IMO what you / we have here is ultracapitalism, "casino-style" capitalism as some have called it; capitalism run amok , essentially. Inherently, it's a good system (capitalism/ free market) and it's necessary, but (again just IMO) it's like keeping a rather fickle and potentially dangerous type of pet for example. You have to know how to handle it , how to keep it under control, and so forth, or else it begins to take charge (so to speak) and it quickly gets out of control, and it may even attack neighbors and such...  And we've seen the results of that kind of situation this past year.
As one columnist I read not too long ago put it, paraphrasing, "...all this has a sort of ironic twist to it because capitalism has been this country's pet project....and now we've basically been gored by our own bull." Does this mean that I think capitalism in this country (or in "the West", if you will) should cease to exist? No. I don't believe in that radical of a solution. I personally identify myself as a social-democrat and generally social-democracy believes (unlike some strains of democratic-socialism and further to the Left) that the free market (and "the State") needs to exist and that it is overall a better option over other methods that have been tried, such as any sorts of attempts at entirely state-planned systems and so on. But I do think that capitalism here has had (despite the regulations that have been in place already) definitely still not enough regulation on it. That, coupled with an essentially sociopathic culture of greed emanating from places such as Wall Street, set the machinery in motion for this kind of crisis to eventually occur. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:04:30 PM | There were people screaming about this shit long before the bottom fell out of the market.
Yet the VAST majority of finacial news magazines; online, cable or print, with their tons of talking head experts, missed it...or miss-represented the problem to the general public.
I wonder why? | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:05:06 PM | There is NO CAPITALISM in America, ok?!
What we have here can be called COMMUNISM because we have a central bank controlling the monetary system. Or SOCIALISM for the rich because they privatize profits while socializing losses. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/19/2009 2:07:26 PM |
If the man didn't turn a profit for his effort, he'd never be able to make advocacy films in the first place. He's probably given more to charity than everyone on this site, combined. 60% of the profits from Fahrenheit went to charity. I'll bet you didn't know that.
Shouldn't 100% have gone to charity if he's so anti-capitalism? If he was that much against capitalism, he wouldn't use it to promote why it's bad. There mere existence of this film is a contradiction. It's like PETA killing animals to promote animal rights. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/19/2009 2:21:01 PM |
Shouldn't 100% have gone to charity if he's so anti-capitalism?
No.
You can still earn a buck, but there is a limit and those that earn more need to pay back a higher percentage, and that is what he is doing.
If he was that much against capitalism, he wouldn't use it to promote why it's bad.
He is not using capitalism to promote it, he is using the media.
There mere existence of this film is a contradiction.
Contradiction in what way?
Are you saying you can not make money talking about making money?
No where does he state he is against making money, he is against people making insane amounts of money and the continued shift of wealth, the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
It's like PETA killing animals to promote animal rights.
They do, Peta killed 21,339 animals in 2008. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:43:17 PM | Great news! Capitalism broke the 10 ten for top grossing documentaries!
Now 4 of the top 10 top grossing documentaries are Michael Moore films!
The people have spoken! Gratz Mike!
http://boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=documentary.htm | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/29/2009 5:38:57 AM | His point was yes he now makes good money and can make pretty much any movie he wants to, then he alludes to the fact that he thinks he should be taxed more because of his income.
Did you know that the IRS has a form for you if you want to donate more than your tax due to the Fed Gov't?
Let Moore put his money where his (big) mouth is! | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:50:44 PM |
If the man didn't turn a profit for his effort, he'd never be able to make advocacy films in the first place. He's probably given more to charity than everyone on this site, combined. 60% of the profits from Fahrenheit went to charity. I'll bet you didn't know that.
On the Hannity interview he addmitted that he helped a few families. I doubt that adds up to 60%. I changed my viewpoints on Moore from that interview. Before I thought he was just a Hollywood Liberal that preyed on Liberal money. Just like that Bill Mayer guy. He had a few good ideas. But I still think he preys on the Liberal money. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:56:23 PM | | “The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” —Margaret Thatcher, Prime Minister of Great Britain | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/29/2009 5:58:34 PM | | Love to hear people use socialism as an excuse for capitalism...then condemn capitalism | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:19:51 PM | Just watched it online today. (free at movie2k.com )
It was distubing that there is so much collusion between wall street and the white house. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
When you look at the lobbying that has gone on to change or deregulate the banking business you can see that it wasn't to lift up the standard of life for the average joe.
It's much like the deregulation that is currently happening in our power and gas industry. There are some very shady people making untold amounts of money and they are using fear to scare many people to sign bad contracts.
We know it is happening right now but little is being done about it. This one seems to be flying under the radar.
For the record I like moore and the fact that he does like to shine a light, his style does reach a greater audience, most times investigative docs never see any light at all because we would rather watch the simpsons then actually learn something.
Maybe it was all those wretched films we had to watch in school, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:10:58 AM | I finally got to see it myself and (of course) I liked the movie but I didn't think it was as good as Sicko.
Mike finds archived footage of Roosevelt proposing a 2nd Bill of Rights:
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
I strongly believe we need to start a movement to add this to our Constitution.
The film also makes a good argument that the issue isn't Capitalim v. Socialism but in fact Capitalism v. Democracy. Capitalism benefits the Rich and Democracy benefits the People.
And yes there were other parts of the film that I did not agree with but I don't have a partisan agenda - and I don't let others with a partisan agenda tell me what to watch or not to watch - so I still viewed it and made up my own mind. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:55:27 AM | | The above is the philosophy of shop keepers and villagers and could never provide the standard of living we enjoy today...Capitalism creates wealth...without it there is nothing to fuel or feed the entitlements of socialism...not to mention the envy and greed of those who have failed to acheive or even tried to acheive anything in life....one must remember that "rich" is a relative term and we have now reached the point where for alot of people it simply means anyone who has more than they do. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 10:25:09 AM | Strings have you seen the film? In it there was a fairly simple explanation for why we developed the standard of living that was easier to attain perhaps twenty years ago but it's easy to prosper when you have no competition.
And based on the democracy of choice that it is quite obvious that North Americans make anything that North Americans want.
Our days at the top of the heap are nearing an end. Do you own a car from the big three, any electronics from an american company, heck even the best watches are from somewhere else.
Have a look at the film to see he may not be quite on the right track but he does point some very obvious elephants in the room that aren't currently being addressed. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 11:08:12 AM | Our position at the top of the heap has not been taken by force,it has been given by consent,by complacency,by graft and corruption...by a population that has lost touch with reality,a government that is just as much for the rest of the world as it is for America...the other nations of the world like China and Russia are actively seeking power and control through energy and resource development,military force and political power...... while we consider ourselves above it all,worrying about what other countries think of us while those same countries laugh at our naive ignorance and hand holding cumbaya nonsense...giving up what little we have left to save the world..a world that will mock and ridicule us when our fall does come.
I guess when the time comes that people in other countries can watch our people starve on their televisions the way we do now it will all be fair,or when our unemployement rate is 30 or 40% and people start leaving America to become second class citizenas in other countries just to get a job all will be right with the world....oh i know it can't happen here..we're Americans...immune from stupidity and ignorance and the consequences of such....yeah right. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 3:13:43 PM | | I found Michael Moore's vision of American capitalism to be much different from reality. I also found his POV much different from mine. I feel capitalism has worked for centuries and will so in the centuries to come. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:08:44 PM | The moneymen sold us out, period.
Dollar hegemony/petro dollar trade on the way out.
Wall St. and Washington to blame.
We're no longer at the top of the food chain, but people don't know it yet.
The reverberations haven't hit home yet.
After the magnitude of what those **stards have done, this country will never be the same.
And yet, NOTHING is done. No investigations, no indictments, no jailtime, nothing.
It's sickening. The level of corruption, greed, and stupidity has no historical comparison.
People should be rioting in the streets, DEMANDING justice, demanding that those who ruined our economy be prosecuted. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:36:03 PM | I just watched it.
Moore echoes Naomi Klein's findings in The Shock Doctrine.
The moneymen love to take what was once a public institution and turn it into a for profit enterprise, like the prison for kids he mentions, or it's also comparable to what Bush and Company did with the Iraq war in terms of outsourcing the entire machinery of war to suck taxpayer money into private corporate coffers.
Revolution anyone? | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:04:29 PM | I watched it last night.
The obscenely rich have much to answer for.
The parts about how little the airline pilots are paid and that grotesque vulture realor were just appalling.
Moore was interviewed via satellite here the other night and we need more of his type of film-maker. The kind that holds a mirror to society and makes us examine ourselves.
He might be a shameless showman, but he needs to be, I've seen excellent conventional documentaries (Niall Ferguson's and others) that have said exactly the same thing as Moore, but they don't have the same impact because he seeks to be controversial to make the masses sit up and take notice.
I watched in disbelief the part about the corporations taking out life insurance on their employees and cashing-in if they die, the younger, the better. There are people in corportaions all over the world who are paid to come up with sh*t like that.
These people are cold, sociopathic, manipulative and they respect nothing, not the workers, not even their own country and certainly not the democratic process.
Moore's films are a 'call to arms' for his countrymen take action. People Power does work. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:04:55 AM | Perhaps "people power" will provide work when this wholesale assault on capitalism,business and free enterprise has done it's work and we are left with chronic high unemployement for years to come...i suspect like in the past it will be the "obscenely"rich..we will be doing their laundry and mowing their lawns for sandwiches.
The average American,as ignorant of history as they are know nothing about the fate of the masses before a system was created by which one could start from nothing,work hard and prosper,instead the average under acheiving American wallows in the muck of whiny, pity party,it ain't fair, adolescent nonsense,if you think it's not fair now wait until we have a society with very rich and very poor and you can see someone's mansion and swimming pool from your tar papaer shack like some poor people can in other parts of the world. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:00:25 AM | Must say i was very disappointed with this film.
better luck next time i guess.... | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:55:44 AM |
The average American,as ignorant of history as they are know nothing about the fate of the masses before a system was created by which one could start from nothing,work hard and prosper,instead the average under acheiving American wallows in the muck of whiny, pity party,it ain't fair, adolescent nonsense,if you think it's not fair now wait until we have a society with very rich and very poor and you can see someone's mansion and swimming pool from your tar paper shack like some poor people can in other parts of the world.
Case in point. Our countries founding!
The King of England (and the way most of the countries thru time) would take from the masses and do with it as they please. The largest amounts would go to the ones that helped keep said king or whoever in power. The land barons and the members of the good ole boy network. Morsels of food and the promise to take care of you. Just be good little worker ant and help us in power to keep telling you want to do and give you the shovel to help them dig their outhouse holes then have you fill in the old. Oh Ya by the way you have to pray to the god of the Church of England. Socialism and Tyranny at its finest.
Our country was not founded on those principals. History has repeated itself once again. The Free Masons dream of a "New Jerusalem" set up with Freedom and Liberty as something that was assured to every American is gone. This time it has morphed into the Federal Government as the King. Bears and Stern and the rest of the major financial firms as the land barons. Wall Street and the CEO's are the good ole boy network. Helping them in power to hold on to it by (contributing) to their re election campaigns. How many of us can sit here and think that our politicians are not getting little under the table cash favors that can easily be hidden. The little morsels of extended unemployment payments as a payment to the masses. Taken from the ones that are lucky enough to have a job digging their outhouse pits.
Our country is dying by old style European ideas. The same ideas that civilization has lived for over ten thousand years. Power, control and greed in A LOT OF Homo Sapien's. There really is no difference. Corruption is running rampant.
Capitalism is an economic philosophy, Socialism is a governing philosophy. In my opinion, Capitalism and free enterprise cannot live within Socialism but Socialism can exist within capitalism with the right regulations. Corrupt politicians is the trump card.
Solutions:
1) I can move to a quite island and live my life in freedom.
2) I can revolt.
RIP
"The American Dream"
1776-2010 | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:43:31 AM | RE Msg: 122 by fishingmachine:
The King of England (and the way most of the countries thru time) would take from the masses and do with it as they please. The largest amounts would go to the ones that helped keep said king or whoever in power. The land barons and the members of the good ole boy network. Morsels of food and the promise to take care of you. Just be good little worker ant and help us in power to keep telling you want to do and give you the shovel to help them dig their outhouse holes then have you fill in the old. Oh Ya by the way you have to pray to the god of the Church of England. Socialism and Tyranny at its finest. By the time of 1776, the Kings and Queens of England were pretty much powerless. All power by this time rested with Parliament. The Royal Family lived on a fixed amount decided by Parliament, and to get any more, the King had to go cap-in-hand to Parliament, and it was totally up to the government if the King could get a single extra penny. Even the profits of their own private property was ceded to Parliament. This was all fought over in the English Civil War, and in the Glorious Revolution, and had been uncontestable for almost 100 years. In reality, any monies coming from America all went into government coffers. The King would never have seen a penny. It all went to the UK government.
Sorry to burst your bubble. | |
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| Capitalism: A Love Story
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:36:54 PM |
Perhaps "people power" will provide work when this wholesale assault on capitalism,business and free enterprise has done it's work and we are left with chronic high unemployement for years to come...
You have this now, or haven't you noticed? One of the points made in the film was that businesses were laying off workers in profitable firms simply to make much more profit. The business was making a lot of money but they were still letting people go because they wanted MORE.
The average American,as ignorant of history as they are know nothing about the fate of the masses before a system was created by which one could start from nothing,work hard and prosper,
It is harder than ever to start from nothing because of the greed and outright corruption of the big players who seek to eliminate ALL competition, including the little guys starting from nothing.
if you think it's not fair now wait until we have a society with very rich and very poor and you can see someone's mansion and swimming pool from your tar papaer shack like some poor people can in other parts of the world.
You have this now, the middle class is shrinking, and the gap continues to widen. If you're drowning in a sea of debt and you've lost everything you join the ranks of the 'working poor'. Why is one man's work worth 600 times less than another's? | |
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