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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/24/2009 6:34:11 PM | ^^I am not trying to be rude... Really I am not. I may have hit a nerve though.
Yes, without sounding racist, when a race is not familiar to you or me for a time they DO look all the same.
I have a story to share about that. I helped a family from Haiti settle in my community. They voiced to me that we, some members of my family and friends, all looked somewhat the same to them. They had not been with so many white people.
The same weird thing happened to me. When I travelled to haiti, I too thought they all looked very very similar. It took me a while to define the traits because I just was not exposed to so many people with dark skin.
The same with asians... etc... It is what it is. It takes a while to adapt. There is a psychological processing system that goes on in the brain. I do not remember it but it was a common thing that happens if one is not exposed to a different race.
Yes, profiling extremists will be very very difficult if they are hiding in a crown of arabic people. I am just stating the obvious.
I did not mean to offend but if I did I apologize.
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:14:13 PM |
Wonders if the muslims will find a way to bring the sharia laws in the US...
PS: Go have a look and this link about the sharia laws... Barbaric really...
^^ No, they will not do so, IMO. US has, as far as I know, no history of allowing any sort of separate "religious courts" for any of its religious minorities who would perhaps require it for civil issues, etc (Orthodox Jews come to mind for example....they do not have the Beth Deen courts here for their civil issues as I believe they do in England for example). Here all have to abide by common (secular) laws of the land, and common civil laws as well, and no separate religious or civil (much less criminal) courts have ever been allowed to operate or stand alongside regular state and fed'l courts and laws. I don't believe that any ever will.
With regards to the Shariah itself, I believe it is worth noting that it is actually only relatively loosely and spottily enforced throughout the parts of the world which are considered Islamic. This is something which angers Islamic extremists to no end in fact; that countries generally considered to be Islamic, which are Muslim majority countries, are NOT living under the extremists' particular strict interpretations of the faith and strict application of religious law.
This is why (some of them) have gone so far as to pronounce "takfir" upon their fellow Muslims in their own country(s) of origin. This means they have taken it upon themselves to declare (which no good Muslim is technically able to) that these people are simply "not Muslim" and therefore, if killed for example as collateral damage in an attack meant for non-Muslim tourists, they were fair game. And if they WERE actually good Muslims, so goes the extremists' theological beliefs, then we simply sent them off early to Paradise. If not..... then they can go to Hell. Read for example (if you are interested and haven't already) the "AlQaeda Reader" (a collection of extremist tracts translated for the first time into English) or even Sayyid Qutb's books, such as "Milestones" , to go back to the "basics" of this extremist type of Islam. When they struck the US Embassies in Africa for instance, the theological underpinning and rationale (if you can believe it) , went along the lines of, Yes there will likely be Muslims killed, but firstly they are working at an infidel embassy, and secondly it is a Friday and it's nearing congregational prayer time; no "good Muslim" will be outside a mosque at this time...
Anyway, in much of the Islamic world they do have a "dual-court" system, but in reality the Islamic/Shariah courts usually only end up dealing with certain civil issues such as marriages/divorces, or inheritances, for example, while NOT applying Shariah law for example to criminals, adulterers, apostates, and what-have-you.
Granted, Islamic Republic of Iran and Saudi Arabia do follow and apply Shariah however for all aspects of law, not just for civil issues, and both have religious police to enforce it, etc. Taliban-ruled Afghanistan certainly did this as well, quite stringently and under a Deobandist interpretation of the faith. Some parts of Nigeria also have started applying Shariah strictly for not only civil issues but criminal / religious issues as well (in other words, you could theoretically see the amputations, lashings, stonings, etc.). Sudan may apply Shariah punishment as well I believe for criminal and religious law (not just in the realm of civil or family affairs). | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/25/2009 1:52:29 AM | saharam:
You yammer about,
Thanks for the careful refutation.
At what point might you be willing to provide that clarity you speak of? The question was "where did you read that they will be praying for the souls of the unbelievers?"
Now I can understand that, yes, you must be a lawyer. I'm not on trial to jump through every hoop you or tranquilo throws at me. I've provided detailed, time-consuming answers to most questions and responses, unlike your two-liners (not that there's anything wrong with terse posts, in general).
But since you insist, I'll indulge you this one time.
I've actually already covered this in questions both rhetorical and curiously exploratory. Those numerous questions weren't submitted just to score cheap points, but for serious reflection for anyone who's interested in the greater context of this issue.
So once again: the rally (according to the OP) has been organized to "pray for the soul" of America. Well, call me a country puddlejumper, but, shazzam, that indicates, at least to this particular scribe, the merest glimmerings that something (what? what?) may be amiss in your country (according to Muslim prayers) if they have to go to the trouble of national congregation to try to "fix" the problem, apparently peculiar only to America, or at least exacerbated in the confines of the Red, White, and Blue. I've already asked specific questions about the motivation, ranging from: fear for their own safety or legitimacy, to pushing for the legitimacy of Sharia law within their own communities.
I never said I "read" that they will be praying for the souls of the unbelievers. (Objection sustained!) That was my own statement; I'm totally responsible for it. It shouldn't be much of a shocker to anyone who can extrapolate past the headline. The U.S. is vastly non-Muslim; the Muslims who are organizing and proceeding to this event are going to "pray for the soul" of America. Thus, they are praying for the souls of Americans. (Or for their own souls if you believe the 1st possibility in the above paragraph.) Thus, they must find that there's something lacking in the souls of Americans that these same Muslims can help them out with, or rather, that Allah, through their intermediary concern, can provide. (Prayer is to Allah, after all, not CNN. Aw, hell, it's to both, though, isn't it? Or at least one of those entities. I'll leave it to the individual to choose which one is the most likely.) | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/25/2009 4:34:41 AM | MSG 68....
\\I have lived in two Islamic countries, have worked with and socialized with Muslims; as well, one of my very closest and dearest friends is Muslim, and I have been involved with her family in family outings, weddings, and staying in their home and they in mine. I work with now and have had and have now many students and co-worker who are Muslim.\\
So you cannot provide an example of this reality...
\\the reality of Islam, that it is peace loving and its people are peace loving.\\
\\Your understanding of Islam is terribly skewed, and you are very misinformed because of the limited way you see and understand the world.
How do you draw that conlusion when all I asked is you to provide is examples of this reality?
\\You are seeing an entire population, 1.2 billion people, as the same as a very limited number of terrorists.\\
I see, from your limited interactions with islam, this qualifies your to speak on behalf 1.2 billion people across 26 or so islamic states!
\\If you think, for example, that the people in the Middle East who have problems with Israel are more violent than Israel, you would be very wrong.\\
Firstly this thread is nothing to do with Israel and, and secondly I accept from the comparison you just made middle east people are violent.
\\Look more closely and honestly at history.\\ 
\\I guess when people don't have an intelligent response, they try to hide behind hyperbole and ridicule.\\
Touche, unintelligent generalised sweeping statements...
If islam has an image problem, then 1.2 billion people (peace loving muslims), shouldn't have a problem sorting out a very limited number of terrorists, should they... | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/25/2009 4:55:42 AM |
Tens of thousands of Muslims plan to pray "for the soul of America" outside the U.S. Capitol this month in what is being described as a first-of-its-kind event. Why does America need 50,000 Muslims to pray for its Soul? Isn't that what religious Wackos tell you when they think that they are spiritually and morally Superior to you ? "I will pray for your soul". | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/25/2009 11:52:56 AM | I have a crusty skin to match my (at times) crusty personality. I'm simply offering you a gentle helping hand not to derail an important thread by going down the ad hominem road. Attack my ideas all you want; leave personal attacks out of the picture. You put yourself in a difficult position when you write such a general, simplistic reason for disqualifying the value of religious faith, such as the one that you achieved when you became a teenager. Please brush up on your reading comprehension skills. As I already stated, the church-going till 14 was only the impetus for my views. A lot of soul-searching as to spiritual meaning (at the macro level), and a lot of reading, conversation, and observation, followed that-- 39 further years, in fact. And I'm still learning. I'd hope others would also pursue important texts, and look at the world through lenses a little less tainted with ideological smear. Though, of course, it's everyone's "right" not to do so, just as it's my right to show my disgust when I feel like it.
There is a lot of stuff in your post that I would like to write about, but I don't want to abuse of anyone's patience. So I will try to focus in two points.
First, you were very fast to pull the "ad-hominem attack" card when I first addressed the ideas in your posts by asking very direct questions so that by reading your answers I could understand where you were coming from with your objections to the event organized by muslim Americans. Now, if I wanted to derail the topic, (not that I would succeed because there are many intelligent people here to bring it back to the central issue when someone goes off-track,) I could start pointing out your personal attacks and respond to them, one by one, as you do with the points that are brought up by people who don't agree with what you write.
I will just stay with your (I'm not going to call it ad-hominem attack, since you said "please") statement here:
Please brush up on your reading comprehension skills.
Here is the point about this argumentative statement. I understand what you write, and when something is not clear for me, I ask questions. That is what I did at first, and then when your answers were lacking in clarity, and I am not the only one saying that, further questions arose. The problem seems to be not in the posters' ability to understand what you write but in your inability/unwillingness to address the questions head on. You seem to shift from one point to another in order to deviate the readers attention to the fact that you aren't addressing the issue that was brought up to your attention. The initial paragraphs in this post of yours is illustrative of the problem:
I understand that more than a purely religious ceremony, the event has political undertones in the American environment. They feel the need to counter the biased image of terrorism that the media has attached to the muslim world. They want to show that not all muslims are terrorists, and that American muslims love their country as much as Americans of any other faith. Could you please give evidence for rampant discrimination and violence of Muslims within North America? Why do Muslims feel they are being browbeaten or threatened in America? You have affirmative action, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religious choice, freedom of thought, for everyone, including Muslims. If these and many other freedoms and benefits to living in your great country aren't good enough for Muslims, what is it, in particular, that they're praying for?
Anyone reading the quote that you are addressing in your answer can see that what you wrote is mis-directing towards another issue (violence, discrimination) that is not even remotely implied in the quote (biased media, terrorist image) that you are responding to. I am left wondering here if you do that because of a "reading comprehension" problem, or if this is an intentional ploy.
That brings me to the second point. Since you have stated that you have done extensive reading about religions, and your opinions are based on mature reflection on the issues of religion, I suppose that you must have found the answers to the old questions of religious faith, enough to dismiss their value and concentrate your attack on this event, organized by muslim Americans, based on what happens in some muslim countries. The impression I get is that you must be a learned man and I find it commendable that you say:
And I'm still learning. I'd hope others would also pursue important texts, and look at the world through lenses a little less tainted with ideological smear.
However, I would just remind you to heed your own words and "look at the world through lenses a little less tainted with ideological smear." The tactics that you are using in this thread remind me of the tricks used by uninspired ideologues.
I am glad to read that you have come around to recognize that the muslim Americans have a right to pray and to assemble, even if that offends you, and that you have answered some of the questions that were asked of you. At least now we know, more or less, were the foundation for your disgust with this event is coming from. That is, in my opinion, reason enough for the event to take place. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/27/2009 12:43:36 PM |
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Thousands of Muslims gathered Friday on Capitol Hill for a day of prayer that organizers said was intended to inspire American Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
"America is not perfect," Abdul Malik, an organizer of the event called Islam on Capitol Hill, told the crowd.
"But I will say something it took me my whole adult life to come to: America is not perfect, but I want to tell the truth: It is one of the best places in the world to live."
Organizers had hoped that 50,000 people would show up for the Friday afternoon prayer session, which took place at the foot of the U.S. Capitol.
There were also anti-Muslim protesters near the event.
Earlier, Malik said, "This is not a protest, it is a day of prayer, of devotion, hoping that we can work ... for the betterment of the world community."
He added, "We can come together and work together for the common good."
He said that Muslims in the United States have a "unique responsibility" and that the event seeks to inspire Muslims and all Americans.
"America represents, still, a beacon of hope," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/25/muslim.prayer.day/index.html
The event seems to have gone well, without violent confrontations with any of the groups assembled to protest the event. From the news reports I gather that the number of people who attended the event was much smaller than anticipated. Also, the news reported that the organized protestors against this event were mainly christians groups. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 83 | |
| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/27/2009 12:53:34 PM | after watching the Tea Party interviews and the Islamic Pray-in interviews, I'm rooting for the muslims.
for one thing they generally seemed to know a good deal more about US history and world events.
sure didn't see much of the "ah don't know what its all about but ah'm agin it" as you saw at the Bag-in. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/27/2009 1:01:35 PM |
... "ah don't know what its all about but ah'm agin it"... LOL
That's what I always say!!  | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:40:09 PM |
First, you were very fast to pull the "ad-hominem attack" card when I first addressed the ideas in your posts
Your statement "pulling the ad hominem attack card" indicates that I used it as a "shutting up" ploy, when, as I've already stated, I was actually helping you, and any like-minded responders, out. Ad hominem replies are a short, straight way to get a thread nuked, and, because I think this is an infinitely more important thread topic than "whatddya think uv wut Kanya West sed!?", I was just nudging things back to the issues, not the person. I welcome your on-topic replies.
I could start pointing out your personal attacks and respond to them, one by one,
If you feel that anything I've said on this thread has been a personal attack, please report it to the moderators, either by way of the report violation thread near the bottom of the home POF menu. Or, alternatively, you can take your specific concerns to Forum_Moderator or to any specific moderator through personal mail.
I understand what you write, and when something is not clear for me, I ask questions. That is what I did at first, and then when your answers were lacking in clarity, and I am not the only one saying that, further questions arose. The problem seems to be not in the posters' ability to understand what you write but in your inability/unwillingness to address the questions head on. You seem to shift from one point to another in order to deviate the readers attention to the fact that you aren't addressing the issue that was brought up to your attention
No, you haven't checked your own initial baseless accusations. The evidence is on the thread. You responded to my offense by stating "too bad that by exercising their rights they are offending you", which is a ridiculous assumption based on your own pre-emptive view that I wished to take away those rights. This is a frequent tactic of sophists (I'm not saying you are one, to take a page from your passive-aggressive playbook).
Of course, anyone reading the exchange without emotional or ideological blinkers can see that my issue was with the motivations and goals of the prayerfest itself, and never the Muslims' right to stage it.
As for my statement:
Please brush up on your reading comprehension skills
there is nothing remotely ad hominem about this. Do you understand what that term means? I attacked your lack of skill in faulty deduction in this instance. Your rejoinder, however, was directed at me being a "know it all". The former attacks a truthful lack of connecting the dots; the latter attacks a supposed arrogance, levelled against me, and based on pre-emptive, and false reasoning.
I understand that more than a purely religious ceremony, the event has political undertones in the American environment. They feel the need to counter the biased image of terrorism that the media has attached to the muslim world. They want to show that not all muslims are terrorists, and that American muslims love their country as much as Americans of any other faith.
Could you please give evidence for rampant discrimination and violence of Muslims within North America? Why do Muslims feel they are being browbeaten or threatened in America? You have affirmative action, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religious choice, freedom of thought, for everyone, including Muslims. If these and many other freedoms and benefits to living in your great country aren't good enough for Muslims, what is it, in particular, that they're praying for?
Anyone reading the quote that you are addressing in your answer can see that what you wrote is mis-directing towards another issue (violence, discrimination) that is not even remotely implied in the quote (biased media, terrorist image) that you are responding to.
There is no misdirection here at all. In fact, it's the logical question following from your post where Muslims "feel the need to counter the biased image of terrorism that the media has attached to the Muslim world". I find that quote utter bunk. And that's why I asked: on what grounds do you -- or do Muslims -- base this? In my experience in Canada, and from what I've read about the social relations in America, there is not only not an "image of terrorism", but large and general acceptance of Muslims, as long as the proselytizers, PC taqqiya experts, lobbyists, and grievance filers, aren't on the scene. I'm still waiting for evidence of this skewed view of their religion.
I would just remind you to heed your own words and "look at the world through lenses a little less tainted with ideological smear."
What ideology do you suppose I'm endorsing?
I am glad to read that you have come around to recognize that the muslim Americans have a right to pray and to assemble,
This is the most insulting part of your post. I haven't "come around" to see that they have a right to pray. That was, and has continued to be (for whatever reason), your own strange reasoning and assumption.
They've always had that right. And you agree with me. And that agreement has been your only real contribution to this thread. Bizarre. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/27/2009 8:48:14 PM | ....the organized protestors against this event were mainly christians groups. So sad and ironic. If they were true Christians, they would be there to support and pray along. These "Christians" who are protesting people from another religion praying are the counterpart of the type of Muslim who causes a negative perception of Islam. It just seems ridiculous to me that now, in 2009, religion is still one of the main instigators of problems amongst people. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/29/2009 7:07:55 AM | If you feel that anything I've said on this thread has been a personal attack, please report it to the moderators, either by way of the report violation thread near the bottom of the home POF menu. Or, alternatively, you can take your specific concerns to Forum_Moderator or to any specific moderator through personal mail.
OH, NO! the M word. I wouldn't be caught dead in these discussions uttering the M word. Those guys have plenty to do already, and I wouldn't want to add any more to their work load. By participating in the discussions here I am willing to take some blows from people who disagree with me, and I would never cry that I am being attacked personally when somebody pointed out something ridiculous that I said, because that is a reminder/threat of the availability of moderator help. My fan club would be very disappointed in me if I were to resort to such level of histrionics in discussions about political issues. Rest assured that I will not report, but feel free to do so if that makes you feel better.
No, you haven't checked your own initial baseless accusations. The evidence is on the thread. You responded to my offense by stating "too bad that by exercising their rights they are offending you", which is a ridiculous assumption based on your own pre-emptive view that I wished to take away those rights. This is a frequent tactic of sophists (I'm not saying you are one, to take a page from your passive-aggressive playbook).
Of course, anyone reading the exchange without emotional or ideological blinkers can see that my issue was with the motivations and goals of the prayerfest itself, and never the Muslims' right to stage it.
I agree. "The evidence is on the thread." I don't find anywhere in your initial post (page 3, message # 53) where you said anything about the prayer event about the American muslims other than it was "an exercise in self-promotion," which was "offensive" to you. Your post is basically a bashing of muslims, and I don't read anywhere you saying that it was their right to assemble and pray, even if you didn't like it. Now you are telling us that in your post, somewhere deep in your beliefs, was always the recognition that muslim Americans have a right to assemble and pray. Well then, and this is no personal offense, I think that there is something wrong with witing style, and not with the readers ability to comprehend.
There is no misdirection here at all. In fact, it's the logical question following from your post where Muslims "feel the need to counter the biased image of terrorism that the media has attached to the Muslim world". I find that quote utter bunk. And that's why I asked: on what grounds do you -- or do Muslims -- base this? In my experience in Canada, and from what I've read about the social relations in America, there is not only not an "image of terrorism", but large and general acceptance of Muslims, as long as the proselytizers, PC taqqiya experts, lobbyists, and grievance filers, aren't on the scene. I'm still waiting for evidence of this skewed view of their religion.
I find the denial of the anti-muslim bias existence to be the sum of an ideological posture that legitimizes the current state of affairs. It is almost as if anyone who is a muslim has to prove that he/she is not a terrorist, or supporter of terrorists, just like anyone who looks hispanic is suspected of being an illegal alien, thanks to the work of the right wing extremists that are constantly spewing their hate on radio and television. I don't know about Canada, but in the USA we just went through an election that revealed quite clearly that the anti-muslim card is one of the tricks that the right used to try to discredit Barack Obama. The bias is so widespread and pervasive that it would take a long time to address it. There is a good article available. I will just quote a couple of paragraphs. For the complete text, check the link below.
It is important to step back and see how mainstream institutions like the U.S. media and government have normalized and given permission for anti-Muslim bias in the guise of anti-terrorist preparedness and nationalist pride. In the national climate created by the Bush administration post-9/11, most U.S. residents with anti-Muslim feelings do not perceive their feelings as bias, but as a justifiable and rational response to danger. In cases with Middle Eastern clients, one is facing not only perceived religious bias but also national origin bias. The demonization and vilification of Muslims and Middle-Eastern people have been the ideological pillars of America's “war on terror.” Terms such as “Axis of evil”, “rogue States,” “failed nations,” and “Islamic terrorists” have served as propaganda to separate Muslims and non-Muslims.
The battery of incidents, events and policy pointing to a systematic development of anti-Muslim bias is extensive. The extent of anti-Muslim prejudice became obvious during last year's presidential campaign, when opponents of President-elect Barack Obama spread rumors that he was a Muslim as a line of attack. The rumors also suggested that he was loyal to terrorists and that he was not really an American, showing the strong association between the Muslim faith, Arabic names, anti-Americanism, and terrorism. There have been many reports of hate-crimes and anti-Muslim bias in daily life such as the well-known “no-fly” lists that have been the source of long delays in immigration for many who have a Muslim name or look like a Muslim based on stereotypes or misleading information.
http://www.astcweb.org/public/publication/article.cfm/1/21/1/Identifying-and-Addressing-Anti--Muslim-Bias
This is the most insulting part of your post. I haven't "come around" to see that they have a right to pray. That was, and has continued to be (for whatever reason), your own strange reasoning and assumption.
They've always had that right. And you agree with me. And that agreement has been your only real contribution to this thread. Bizarre.
I have to recognize that you may have a sense of humor, in a clownish way. Especially that last paragraph is ridiculously hilarious: "They've always had that right. And you agree with me." We had to make an extraordinary effort here to corkscrew it out of you, and get you to say that they had that right to assemble and pray.
As for all the questions that we had to pose to you, it says a lot about what was written. Let the record here be the arbiter. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/29/2009 7:18:06 AM | These "Christians" who are protesting people from another religion praying are the counterpart of the type of Muslim who causes a negative perception of Islam
I agree with that.  They, as well as Jewish / Zionist militants/extremists, etc, are all essentially birds of a feather; spiritual "cousins", truly. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/30/2009 3:21:39 PM | I don't have time to get in all of this long debate. However, some one some where mentioned about Islam lacking some sort of utopia.
Well, I have a news for them. The so called,"Islamic Utopia" if that's what you wanna call it not only exists but in fact it had been implemented atleast once during early stages of Islamic history. Shocked???????
Read on!!!!! Keep this in mind, the very first Muslim dynasty was built by people of Ummayyad Tribe. And their 100 year reign has been detested by many of the Muslim schoalars. They love to bash this dynasty left and right because according to Muslim scholars, it was this very dynasty that killed the concept of democracy and conscenus forever among muslims and Muslims leadership which was supposed to democratic, it took the shape of a despotic regime because of Umayyad Caliphs.
However, the same Muslim scholars pause and they take a minute to praise Caliph Umar Bin Abdul Aziz. The only Caliph from the Umayyad line that they are forced to praise. Wanna know why?
Zakat aka Charity is one of the five pillars of Islam. It simply means, every Muslim has to contribute 2.5% of their wealth to the wellness of the poor every year. And if any thing such like Islamic state exists, it is the responsibility of the govt to collect this money on behalf of the poor. Therefore, during his reign the government officials came to him and they said that they didn't find any one in entire Muslim empire who would take charity from them. They said, they went to every peron and knocked on every door, but they all refused to take the money because they were already so well off. And they told the caliph they just simply didn't know what to do with the money!!!!!
And how the caliph lived himself???? Did he live like any modern day president with top notch security? Did he have top notch salary and health benefits whil his people were suffering? Before becoming the caliph, he lived a luxurious life and wore fancy clothes. Once becoming the ruler, he gave up every thing. In fact, he didn't even bother to have any sort of security.
That's why, all the corrupt people during his reign couldn't stand him and they poisoned him and that's how he died after setting an example on how a leader of a nation should live and rule his people!!!!! | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/30/2009 5:18:19 PM |
OH, NO! the M word. I wouldn't be caught dead in these discussions uttering the M word. Those guys have plenty to do already, and I wouldn't want to add any more to their work load.
This is disingenuous regarding your drive-by smear-by-unsubstantian ploy. You can't identify anything I've said as being a "personal attack", so you deflect by (the initial) passive-aggressive thrust, and when called on it, back off in an "aw shucks I don't want to trouble them" mode. Here's a clue: moderators appreciate genuine reports made to them of egregious offenses. It precludes further, and messier, problems down the road. So be it. You just keep dissembling.
I don't find anywhere in your initial post (page 3, message # 53) where you said anything about the prayer event about the American muslims other than it was "an exercise in self-promotion," which was "offensive" to you
Then you're being either a disingenuous sophist, or obtuse and prejudicial.
Just because I don't preface any complaint by granting rights where those rights should initially be asumed, doesn't mean that I fail to meet the test of those whose only position is to trumpet their own "tolerance". This is debating 101: you've made the elementary but common error of filling in a natural "omission" with your own unfounded suspicions, which (as we can see later on down your post) is coloured by (as I'd earlier suspected) your ideological, emotional bias. This is about your own projections.
I find the denial of the anti-muslim bias existence to be the sum of an ideological posture that legitimizes the current state of affairs. It is almost as if anyone who is a muslim has to prove that he/she is not a terrorist, or supporter of terrorists, just like anyone who looks hispanic is suspected of being an illegal alien, thanks to the work of the right wing extremists that are constantly spewing their hate on radio and television.
Really? What world do you live in? This isn't a rhetorical question.
One would think that there must be a seething tension between Muslims/Hispanics and ....who? only right-wing whites? (gawd, how can one keep from gagging on these verbal chestnuts?) for the psychic territory to be so polluted, according to yourself.
But then, we have this to "back it up", so to speak.
The demonization and vilification of Muslims and Middle-Eastern people have been the ideological pillars of America's “war on terror.”
I won't honour this alarmist tripe by lengthy probing, and in any case, it's beyond the scope of this thread. However, it may be wise to keep a sense of proportion (which is another word for honesty) about what you think, write, or quote. I'm still waiting for evidence of this "demonization" and "vilification", but I've learned not to hold my breath.
As for the "no fly" lists, don't make me laugh. I've flown several times into and out of the U.S. post 9/11. Grizzled white causasian grannies are asked to take off their shoes, and the delays have next to nothing to do with an untoward bias against Muslims, since I've failed to see many dark-skinned "durn furreners" in those long lines. Unless you're a kooky 9/11 truther, I'll remind you the religion, ideological mission, and nationalities of those who tested a "new law" for physics by planting their projectiles into scyscrapers were Muslims (egads! is it "hateful bias" to say so?? ) If some Muslims are being detained by mistake out of natural national defense concerns, then I understand the irritation, but I don't have much sympathy for it. Get in line with the rest of us who are increasingly under video surveillance, email and cell phone spying, internet oversight, and business watchdogs.
As to the Obama "issue", how you can make a pre-emptive jump between the wars of the lunatic right and the lunatic left, and equate that to what I "might have meant" on this thread .... well, I'll leave your imagination alone. I wouldn't want to deprive you of your pure and delicious frissons.
We had to make an extraordinary effort here to corkscrew it out of you, and get you to say that they had that right to assemble and pray
This is my fave sentence in the thread so far.
Who is this "we" you speak of? The thought police? Hey, Heather McNaughton would like to trade stories with you. | |
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| Islam Goes to bat for America
Posted: 9/30/2009 5:55:01 PM |
Who is this "we" you speak of? The thought police?
No, the people who kept asking you questions about what you meant, and to spell clearly what you thought, rather than just accept the supposed "clarity" in your convoluted posts.
If you don't believe it, just go back and check the record here. And don't ignore the tone and the words of your initial post, which gave cause for us to question you. Basically you posted to bash muslims saying that the were "posers" and their praying "offended" you. Then you made up a reason to be offended by stating that the muslims would be "praying for the unbelievers." When I asked you where you got that information, you just ignored the question. Then somebody else asked the same question,and you had to recognize that you just made it up. So the question that remained was, if there was no reason to be offended, then why were you so offended? I think that the record here may give an answer. | |
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