|
|
|
|
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:51:00 PM | Really Ant that's a bit absurd. Obama has is bad points just like the his Bush, and Clinton before him. BTW I have a personal letter from Bill hanging over my mantle place. IKEA is incorporated in DE like most compaines in that operate in the US because it has a low tax burden, and favorable corporate laws. I would say that cutting the Business tax rate, and the indivial marginal tax rate would do much to stimulate the economy. I would also put us back on the gold standard as well. I've never been one for Paul's extreme Lazie Faire Capitalism argument. I heard it in my economics courses in College didn't buy it then buy less so now. I guess I more like Teddy Roosvelt in my philosophy. There needs to be some rules to the game, to keep it fair so everyone can play.
Now that my internet is fixed I can go into more detail about my Health Department arguement. As someone that has made a six figure income and been homeless, I can honestly say I've seen both sides of America. When I lost it all, shortly after I discharged from the Army I was pennyless. I was living in my car. Thank God for church, and good people. However, I had no insurance and VA only covers so much so when I was ill. I went to the local Commuinty college and got free care. Or I went to the Health Department and got Free Care. If I was in dire dire need I could walk, no amblance needed and I would be treated in the ER. This is by Federal Law signed by Ronald Regan in 1983. Oh about you all complaining about HMO's and PPO's it was durring the Reagan Adminstration that these ideas were introduced by Congress to reduce the cost of health-care. Championed by the late Sentor T. Kennedy, and signed by Regan. So what makes us think another 20 years down the road that we won't be trying to reduce health care again? Oh the largest Federal expenditure of the Federal Government is OSDI better known as Social Security. Which is 33% of the Federal budget and of that a third is disablity (health expenditures) Medicaid another Federal program is bankrupting many states is an unfunded mandate. The Federal Government is not collecting money for the program and passing the cost back onto the to the individual States. Do you want to know where that money that is collected out of your check every two weeks for Medicaid is going? The General Fund another accounting slight of hand done in the 1980's. So if you account for the IOU's OSDI and Medicare and Medicaid is bankrupt and has been so since the first term of the Clinton Adminstration.
So How are we going to pay for Health Care? I would argue that health care is not a right. Something nice a privlege sure but not a right. A right is something that requires you to take from someone else to have or use.
Note on IKEA it model is furniture under 10K no more. Build it yourself. It is an interesting case study really.
Gadget. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:36:34 PM | As to health care cost 40% of a non medical staff of a hospital is just to process and accounting for different Insurance plans.
That slight of hand on Federal accounting could be corrected by doing what most think is unthinkable raising taxes and closing corporate loop holes. Personally I wouldn't mind paying taxes as long as the majority of the People saw benefit. Right now it is a Government owned by corporate interest for corporate interest and buy corporate interest. The other thing I would love to see is a ban on all lobbyist even those that lobbied for the things I support. To many laws are written to favor one institution over another. Lobbyist write laws then send them up to their favorite members of congress to review edit then call it their own. We should also institute rules in who can sit on Corporate boards. to many have cross board members a network of cronies that work together in most of Europe this is not allowed The CEO of one company can not sit on the board of another and have that ceo sit on your board. This is one way that executive compensation has gotten so out of hand and way past anybodies sense of reality.
I agree Teddy Roosevelt took a strong stance for fair play in the bussiness world.
World HQ for Ikea is still in Delft Sweden. I did not knew were the Ikea USA HQ was Thanks for the info. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:48:01 PM | Hey artz
If you think that we have unemployment now, raise taxes, and close.... "loopholes". Then you will see what it is like with 20% unemployment. The money does not come from out of thin air, it has to come from somewhere, and even if the top CEO's worked for free, it would not be enough to make up for the money lost to taxes.
It always seems like there are those who are almost jealous of what others make, and want to trim them down to size...............
Paul K | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 5:34:05 PM | Typical response. You Know there are a few corporate heads that agree with me. The CEO of Costco is one By stacking the corporate board they get unrealistic contracts and perks. Even as the company sinks. It is investors that should be raising hell. After all it's their money. Still cross board membership hasawa of keeping the big investors and managers quit Vote for my pay raise and I will vote for your pay raise We should also put the gut back into the anti trust laws.
Once again why are countries with far higher taxes doing well? Why is it they can have good employment rates and still create a lot of wealth? If you do not like Ikea that fine. They are still the worlds largest furniture retailer. They also rank very high as one of the world best companies to work for. I don't have any furniture by Ikea I just admire their bussiness model
Also one of the best economic periods in this Country were the 1950s with a income tax that caped out at 90% that was under Republicans .
Even I think 90% is excessive.
See I think the honest hard working businessman with the smarts will see opportunity and run with it. He will have an opportunity to fairly compete with the multi Billion dollar conglomerates. Our laws are so lopsided favoring some industries and work against others close the loop hole and special considerations and lets start producing something instead of just siphoning off money as you move it around.
You see all this as some conspiracy to stop the economic engine. I see it as putting some balance in our economy and Government.
Keep going as we are and we will become a country like Mexico. Almost wholly owned by 12 families. | |
|
HO2
|
Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 205 | |
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 5:41:53 PM | ^^Everyone in Mexico pays the same price for gasoline - what a concept !
Petróleos Mexicanos (PEMEX) is Mexico's state-owned petroleum company.
I was working in Mexico when they had the democratic elections for Vicente Fox, good times !
I believe if you actually raise the bar very high and hold peoples feet to the fire
-you get outstanding results in the long run.
If you merely settle for whatever , you get hmmmm whatever you get.
Most voters in the USA don't have a clue what or whom they're voting for.
They do almost none of their own research - they can't read, remember the schooling issue ?
If it's not on television, it doesn't exist.
They vote straight down the line, not who is the best person, but by which party you're affiliated with.
The system needs to be shaken violently and the reset switch kicked in by a steel toe boot. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:48:27 PM | Don't kick with steel-toe boots they're expensive. I just bought a new pair lol.
First I wish to address lobbists. This is something bothers me whenever one side or the other throughs it around. Speical interests is another one of my favorites. I want to just give you a list of some Speical interest lobbists: Boy and Girl Scouts of America. AUSA (Assoc. United States Army) VFW (veterans of Foriegn Wars) American Legion, The American Lung Association...and hunderds of others. Many of these lobbists are just civic organizaitons trying to aid there cause. Is this such a bad thing? So I hate when people talk about the evil lobbists. It is the Congress person that isn't be fiscally responsiable that is to blame for the waste of tax dollars, not lobbists. Oh and that lobbist might just be lobbying for somthing you want or like. Remember this.
Taxes: Interesting concept. Might be a good doctoral dissertation I will have try and remember this: that taxes are much like seting a price point on a prodcuct. On the Supply and Demand curve there is an optimal price point in witch a product can be sold for max profit, which the most people will buy. Too low you'll move a lot of product but won't be making as much profit as you should. To high you make more profit but won't move as much product. The same is true with taxes and generating buisness. (More correctly allowing buisness's to develop). The problem is no one really knows where this point is, and it can shift with certian economic developments. I would argue today to place the United States on firm economic grounds we need to cut our product price to move more product. Once the economy is moving again, and we've cut our spending habits, become fiscally responsible then consider revenue raising measures. Instead of rasing taxes how about the old way of doing things and sell Bonds to Fund Health Care that way it is a Voluntary measure? Or do you not thing that you'd have enough people investing in the product? Of course this would require the Fed to raise the Interest rate. They should do this anyhow to restore confidence in our Fiat money before it is completely devalued and we have to buy bread with wheel barrows. Sorry if this is a bit of a rant kinda of a free association of how to fix things. My mind works in strange ways when I think about money. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 7:19:14 PM | Hey artz
You say that 90% tax rate is excessive, then tell me, what is a reasonable rate for the average joe to pay? How about for the business side of thing, what rate should businesses pay?
You are aware that raising rates effectively slows down growth? And cutting rates increases amount collected. Yep, it has happened every time it was tried. All we hear today from the sycophant media is how we are out of the recession, but the JOBLESS rate is going.......... UP........ How can we be out of the recession if less people are working?
Even if you had a law where all of the top execs worked for FREE, it would make no difference for the guy on the assembly line. Yet that seems to be the place that gets all of the publicity. And you tell me it has nothing to do with jealousy?
Paul K | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/14/2009 7:38:20 PM | Paul it could be that we are out of the Recession (haven't looked at the numbers so I don't know either way) and the jobless claims can be increasing for this reason. Unemployment is a lagging indicator. However, now the the weather is getting cold I am worried about housing starts, and houses sold. I think that they cook the numbers with the Cash for clunkers program to show big ticket item purchases to calim that the Recession is over. Smoke and mirrors.
Just in FICA payroll Tax an employer (or self-employed) is paying 18% Employer and Employee OSDI, Medicare, Medicaid, to the Federal Government off the top. Then you have to factor in the individual withholding per employee. Top rate is 35% Then you factor in State Taxes and any Municple taxes. That's not including workmans comp insurance, and any fringe benifits the company many or may not offer. What was the Employee have left. What does the Company have left for Capital investment? It isn't like people that run buinsess just sit on a pile of money most of it goes in salaries, and back into the buisness. Do you really think it is fair to have over a third of your effort go to the Federal Goverment? Do know the amount of waste the Federal government does?
I know where you're comming from Paul. My taxes are hell. I work for an employer fulltime, but I also sell Life Insurance on the side as an Independent Agent therefore I'm 1099. I have to pay all my taxes each quarter. So I make a payroll. My own. Its a pain. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:07:06 AM | Now on the other hand with those loop holes and some legal slight of hand many corporations pay zero in taxes. Some of the largest investment banking firms take more out in fees then supply actual capital to industries that produce. Our current system has been so slanted and legally corrupted we reward those that do not put that money back into the economy. We also are rewarding people who for all intense purposes failed! I'm sorry There isn't a person alive that is worth a 100 million dollar pay check. Especially when you and me are paying that pay check.
By the way I have owned my own company had 14 employees and a number of subcontractors that relied on me to get contracts . We produced something we provided a service for some of the wealthiest people in the country. I have met some very prominent people. I was in the Yacht industry. People with the money that can afford 120 foot, multi million dollar Yachts are an interesting bunch some ultra conservative and some very liberal. One was appointed an Ambassadorship by President Clinton. Another person I have socialized with was an Ambassador to China picked for his long standing business ties to China.
Gadgetdoc,
I understand what you say about lobbyist. Some do work for interest that are beneficial. This is something to think about Bank lobbyist have spent something like 200 million since the melt down lobbing congress We hand them trillions to shore up the markets and they still want t do business like they were use to doing bussiness. I;m sure all The boy scout lobbyist and other groups like that could be out spent 10 to 1 By just one bussiness interest lobbyist along. By the way I ski with a now retired Bank lobbyist. He worked almost his whole career getting congress to relax banking regulations. We have had some very interesting conversations.
Yes there is a lot of Federal waist. A great deal of that waist can be blamed on Contractors who lobbied congress to get very blotted Fat contracts. Ultimately it is The Fault of Congress. ave have been blinded by special interest money. Contractors with their lobbyist have helped make waste and blotted contracts into a fine art. All legal and many very very smelly. The smell is covered up by gee it's in the contract. I have heard that the average congressmen spends upward to 60% of their time ( really it is our time) in fund raising for their campaign war chest.
Paul ,
You fail to answer any of my questions or come up with any sound arguments that are not out of the mouths of the conservative talking heads. Pithy little ditties and parrot talk do not impress anyone. Why should I bother replying to you? | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:28:04 AM |
it could be that we are out of the Recession
Nope...They are just "jawboning" to suck people in to getting back into the market for one more fleecing before they pull the bottom out from under you.
With your economy now in the hands of the IMF, get ready for MAJOR austerity measures that your president can blame on the IMF and G20. Look for privatization of all your utilities (with the corresponding price increases and maintenance reductions to make them "profitable"). Look for a big increase in taxes and a major decline in the services they are supposed to provide, as more of your money gets allocated to servicing the now massive debt. Look to "own" all the unprofitable companies that the government will buy up (like GM) so Mr. & Mrs. America will foot the bill for keeping them in business until they are once again profitable and can be "re-privatized" by selling them back to private interests at pennies on the dollar. Look for an end to the American dollar and the probable introduction of the "Amero", the North American currency these ba$tards have been dying to introduce. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:42:24 AM | Hey artzy
I have answered your questions, you just don't like the answers, and that I can't help. As far as your background goes, congratulations, I am sure that when you paid your taxes, you always included a little extra, since that is what you think we should be doing in the first place........... Right? Actually, I am sure that since you see a 90% tax rate as not that bad in the first place, I am sure that you doubled the amount you sent in............... Right? If not, why not? I mean if you REALLY believe what you say, then back it up..................
Simple as that.
Paul K
Or could it be that you think that EVERYONE ELSE, especially the very rich should do the paying................. OPM....... Other Peoples Money. Not a new philosophy, you didn't invent it, and as it was once said, it works great right up to the point where you run out of their money. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:52:54 AM | You never danced one specific question none of your business ins not an answer It's an avoidance to a complex problem. Lets have more Parrot speak.
If I put extra in thats my bussiness and my accountents bussiness . I did go though an audit once after all the dust setteled the IRS cut me a $800 check. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:10:42 AM | Just as I thought............ OPM. If you were kicking in more, as you seem to think that EVERYONE else should, you should be PROUD of that fact, I would be. I've laid out what I think that people should pay, someone else here gave hard numbers, which was an excellent suggestion by the way, what do you think the tax rate should be? Oops, sorry, I should've asked, what do you FEEL the tax rates should be?
This is off topic, in that the topic is "rights".........................
Just trying not to get booted off the forums.........................
Paul K
Now that I think about it, you did mention that 90%, as it was at one point, didn't seem to high for that particular time. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:17:04 PM | Dukky heard about the Amero, and Fox was open about it. I'm still not sure if it is an Urban myth or not. So I will reserve judgement.
When I was speaking about the Recession actually if it hasn't ended would more correctly be called a minor Depression, I wasn't sure if it had ended or not. In my opinion I don't really believe so. The fundmental problems that caused the collapse have yet to be addressed in a realistic way. The American Reinvestment and Recovery Act of 2009 (Stimulus) is just a money pit. The reserve rate that banks need to have on hand need to be increased drastically to prevent further bank failures. That would be a good start. Secondly, preditory interest rates need to be reduced and capped.
The housing market needs to be brought back into line. Does a person have a right to a home? No. But they shouldn't be exploited either. I think of the penny auctions of the Depression era where commuinties would band together to keep their neighbor in there home by purposely biding low on a home so the home owner could buy back his or her home, and have a shot at a new underwriting.
Since this topics are being addressed we can offer solutions. We can state our opinions on if we believe if it is a right or not a right. In the end, it will be commuinties that will fix what alies America Right Left Center, and Fringe.
I do not think that the Government has the Right to Tax me on my Income. I also quesion if the 16th Admendment was properly ratified. And if you read it, how it was sent to the legislatures of the states the Federal Government has no right to my Income. They sure as heck have no right to withhold any of my income from me. Witholding was supposed to be an Emergency meausre to fund the Second World War, The Axis powers have long been defeated. Stop holding my money INTEREST FREE! | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:34:00 PM | Withholding will never stop, because it is a way to fool people as to how much money they really PAY. Can you imagine if everybody had to pay from their account by the 15th of April? As it is all anybody talks about is how much money they are getting back.
If withholding were to stop, everybody would have a very real, visceral, connection to the amount taken...............
Paul K | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:41:39 PM | | Well Paul, if people knew that the Federal Government didn't have the right to do so they would want all their check. Right now they just assume that the government has the authority and right to withhold taxes. If you educate enough people then wow what a reaction you'd get. Then you'd might get some of the spending under control. Look at the reaction just to the ARR and the Health Care thing. The American people are starting to realize that the Feds don't have their interests at heart. I see this mostly from my Contemporaries, from the GWOT (Global War on Terror). I believe that we are going through a new Enlightenment and having another "Greatest Generation" emmergeing. Besides, my Generation know the promises of FDR won't be there for us, so why should we pay so others can profit? | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:28:09 PM | Hey gadget
So that means you are not going to pay for my retirement? (social security)
Knowing that the govt is wrong in certain things that it does, and being able to change those things is unfortunatley usually two different things. It would be nice, but there are too many people on both sides of the political spectrum who don't know/don't care, so I have say I am afraid you won't get much help. I really wish I was wrong on that aspect of it, but old age gives you a perspective where you can see if changes are going to be made or not. I don't see a good conclusion to this one. Even my dear old dad said to me once, " hey, I left a communist country and came to a much better one......... Where are you going to go?"
I guess all countries run their course. The sad thing is that this implosion is nothing less than self imolation....................... AND, it doesn't have to happen.
Paul K | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:14:32 PM | Ah the people are still in charge. It may take several elections and a lot of turn over in the Congress for them to The Republorats and Demorians to get the idea but they will. At the moment I have no choice otherwise I will go to jail....that might be a good idea, and make a Federal case out of it. The problem is that the Government Media Complex wouldn't say anything about my plight. So I guess that is out.
If I choose to leave I have some places I'd like to go. That is if it isn't already too late for me to leave. | |
|
HO2
|
Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 219 | |
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:22:25 PM | There is definitely something be said for looking out for the "entire nation"
instead of all this independence, individual rights, bickering nonsense going on.
We continually duplicate efforts with numerous redundancies in police, fire, etc.
for every little podunk city, township , anthole instead of having county or state groups.
Waaaaayy tooo many chiefs and not enough stuff getting done since everyone wants to be sherrif.
I would like to think I have the Right to travel down a road in the winter that is plowed
--except every municipality plows when they feel like it, if they feel like it, or have $$,
so a simple 15 mile jaunt across the county means sections are and aren't plowed.
I'm talking MAJOR thoroughfare here, not a dirt road for a backcountry moonshine still.
A little nationalism, socialism , call it what you will, would do us all a lot of good.
Instead of of all these independent states with independent laws, make everything the same everywhere.
It's all one country, let's actually act like it.
And what's this idiocy with Puerto Rico - a self governing commonwealth in association with USA
-they fly a flag based on the Cuban flag but yet they want to be American
--they have their own Olympic team
--their president is our president, YET they are not a state......wtf ! | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:39:42 PM | Need to correct you on the Cuban Flag. Which is based off the American Flag. Both Cuba, and PR became possitions (terriorities) of the US in 1898 durring the Spanish American War. That is why both their flags look alike. Cuba wanted independence, we gave it back to them, PR didn't.
Certain things need to be handled on a local level just because it wouldn't be handled well on a large scale. I had this arguement with Dukky on his Utopia thread. Can certain items be expanded sure but there becomes a point where you would run into the same problem because it is too large. Maybe the easiest solution is to put a plow to the front of your truck in the winter so you can make the trip and not rely on anyone else. I'm presuming you have a truck of course. This is what my Brother-in-law does because he has the same issue you have in the winter in PA/MD he also uses it to make some extra cash on the side. So overall, I'd say a good investment for him. You're welcome down here in NC it doesn't snow much here. And when it does it melts by the next day. Same as Soma, Guam, Marshall IS, VI.....I think there are a few more I just can't remember them all.
A Sherriff is the one that controls the jail. Shouldn't that be a function of the County. Heck I lived in a city of 60,0000 people and the County Sherriff controled the jail. Of course they had a mutial assistance clause in the surrounding towns in the counties. That might be an effect, resloution to your problem. See if you the police agencies have that. It would increase coverage and decrease costs for all the towns. This is something that should be brought up with you County Executive. You have the right to have your Public Finances to be spent wisely. You have the right for effective services. You most certainly have the right to redress your greviences to your Government.
Gadget for panio player. lol | |
|
HO2
|
Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 221 | |
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:45:20 PM | Let's properly learn to read:
After 1952, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico adopted a flag
based on a reverse-colored Cuban one !
I say bullshit on the ""can't be handled well on a large scale""
--put competent people in place and it gets handled just fine.
There is absolutely no reason to cross 10 different cities driving 15 miles on any road.
I'm not making that stuff up either, it's quite true in the metropolitan Detroit area. | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/16/2009 2:33:26 AM | Hmmm in 1952 if I remember my history Cuba was still friendly with the US. I will have to look into a history book as to the adoption of its flag.
Secondly, it depends on the scale we are talking about. You did see that I do beleive that there should be some mutual assistance going on. And that County that you are in needs to reign in some of these municpalities. However, is dependent on how IL state law is written. Overall, you have the right to address this with you local politicians. Do you know how your precient captian is? That is who I would start with he would be in contact with the right people to get the ball rolling.
Gadget. | |
|
HO2
|
Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 223 | |
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/16/2009 9:24:55 AM | I'm talking about ALL of the USA in ALL 50 states needs to cut the crap of
piss ant municipalities having unique laws, statutes, rights, etc., etc.
We have far too much ""uniqueness" creating tears in the cohesive fabric of the nation.
Either we are truly one nation with rules that work in ALL the 50 states or we aren't.
The examples are rampant and horrendously obvious :
We have Blue Laws in some states , but not in many others.
Some states have drive thru liquor sales, others don't - some even have dry sections - wtf !
We AREN'T the United States of anything ! - It's a complete illusion , a farce, a fairy tale
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either I have the Right in all 50 states, anywhere, everywhere, every time or I don't
--not this hop scotch crap of ooooh you touched the "special sqaure" of geography  | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/16/2009 10:37:02 AM | Hey HO2
Spoken like a true socialist.
you wrote:
"I say bullshit on the ""can't be handled well on a large scale""
--put competent people in place and it gets handled just fine."
No surprise at all here. Socialists NEVER consider that socialism doesn't work, they ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS say that the problem isn't the philosophy, it is who implemented the policies. EVERYTIME, THE SAME THING. If only we had the right people in power....................
you also wrote:
"Either I have the Right in all 50 states, anywhere, everywhere, every time or I don't
--not this hop scotch crap of ooooh you touched the "special sqaure" of geography"
This shows either such a total ignorance of the Consititution, or total disregard for it, that nothing else needs be said. I am sure that you would be much happier living in a country where EVERYTHING is centrally planned and controlled, and would have been ecstatic living in the countries were that is the case..................... As long as you are "allowed" your freedoms to go from place to place and have all of the roads plowed, and could buy booze the same way............ you know, the really important things in life. All it would tke is a total govt. takeover and control of everything, and life will be bliss.......... I can hardly wait, because that is the way it is going. I hope all of you who wanted it, enjoy it when you get it.
Paul K | |
|
| Philosophical argument of Rights
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:50:42 AM |
Spoken like a true socialist.
Whatever you do Paul, don't rape and murder your neighbour's 'socialist' wife in Texas, cause you'll be hung by the neck. However, if you really get the itch to do so, you can take her up to North Dakota.... there you'll only get a life sentence with an elegibility of parole in 10 yrs. As a cold blooded murderer, you'll have more rights in ND than you would in TX.
Remember though.... you can't drive her up there, you'll have to hike it by foot across the grassland prairies..... because otherwise you'd be utilizing the public road system that was constructed by your much hated 'socialist' program(s).
(some people's kids just never get it, do they ?)
 | |
|
|
| Page 9 of 14
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 |
|
Home
login 
