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 whowhatme
Joined: 5/28/2008
Msg: 326
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 14 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
My first thought is that 'correlation does not prove causation' From what I can gather, there is a correlation between the two, but no proof that spanking causes lower IQ. Spanking could be a symptom of other underlying issues within the family/society. That leads me to believe that the child's total environment probably isn't conducive to learning. I also found this while poking around about the article:
"a higher national level of economic development underlies both fewer parents using corporal punishment and a higher national IQ. " So, we could correlate higher incomes to higher IQ, and even infer that it's parents from lower socioeconomic strata that are likely to spank.

I'd like to see the methodology of the study to see if the researcher controlled for income levels and other environmental/sociological factors. Otherwise, we have a correlation
and no real proof.
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 327
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 6:55:20 PM
...

wellcome to it. glad that you like its sense.

and let me now add. people that use physical force with stressed communication conveyances respond for their very real and true reasons/feeling awareness in that moment. in that moment...there may be a better response form than what they choose but not until they have some other relationship facts and some practice in applying the new method...will they then perceive their prior non-awareness of relationship respects.

people generally use physical force in the specific conditions which they are pressured and/or practiced to apply. there will be events in a series of life experiences which have similar conditions to events of past and practice.

if you really want to understand your own type of practice ...try recognizing the conditions by which you may apply....physical force with or without exertive language force. there will be common conditions...and some which will be quite difficult to identify depending on how knowledgeable you may be regarding relationships personal or social and environmental.

in such cases giving judgement to a person that has passed judgement or urgency to apply physical force is not recommended. people will allways respond for very good reasons (known or unknown) and will allways respond by some element of fear in light of prospective loss/injury.

the key is knowledge and information and that begins with personal relationship facility. know thyself and become conscious of how and why you choose your response types.

be well all ways
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 328
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:08:50 PM
...

now. of course. there is a real connection between social performance ...*which is what iq tends to classify as knowledge awareness*...and social stress (physical abuse...with mental/emotional confusions.)

the simple relationship would be as such...

a child has some (ir)regular physical/emotional/mental ab use applied by person(s).

the childs' self esteem then be compromised by an authority figure(s) want for that child to be socially esteemed and socially acceptable.

the child - authority figure relationship is then conditional to what the authoritarian figure wants / needs / directs at any given time. the child can not be his or her self because the figure of authority (less full respects) and the childs early development nature is intruded.

he or she may or may not have been gifted at this or that....but the child has gifts which may be less identifiable and discoverable by the relationship to authority which wants "control".

control is a common form of relationship behaviour involving environmental-physical mental and emotional engagement confusions. the authority see a purpose or event for a child then makes it their purpose to change conditions of environment and natural physical predisposition by body -- ideas and emotional fear element urgency.

the child then basically is subject to authoritarian tyranny...and the relationship may have very little good information as legitimate bonding between them.

please add your comments at will...much more to say should you be willing.
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 329
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:08:14 PM
...

then you saw a compound fear of me.

what can i say..? but it scares me .

i am going to delete if i may my fear response...for the reason that it were fear response to partial truth ...my bias to relationship which be confusing by mystery in authorities.
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 330
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:11:43 PM
...not an option by these conditions.

consultations can be brutal while the realizations be estranging ...

love moving hurts
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 331
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:14:52 PM
...spankings are very dangerous for the reason it is the lower back bone which may become irreparably changed . one should not hit anybody there...

just cuz its ass don't mean it aint sensitive..

a person can be crippled. especially a young and maturing human being.

please look to conditions creating your fears ....from and for further more awareness

to love .
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 332
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:46:26 PM
propurpose, God forgive me, but, ... you are so smart, yet fairly unintelligible! Please provide a translator.
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 333
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/24/2009 2:20:33 PM
with each read may a more clear translation surface.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 334
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:09:15 PM
propurpose, I don't know how your making these multiple posting (5 ina row) but I'm sure it's against pof rules. And just so you know we all speak english. You seem to be talking to yourself cause I'm not sure anyone understands you, I'know my trying is giving me a headache.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 335
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 9:27:09 AM

with each read may a more clear translation surface.


That is true...I have to read the posts over and over again to understand the message.

You have an interesting, somewhat challenging way of communicating that is at times difficult to understand on a first read through.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 336
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 9:39:36 AM

and let me now add. people that use physical force with stressed communication conveyances respond for their very real and true reasons/feeling awareness in that moment. in that moment...there may be a better response form than what they choose but not until they have some other relationship facts and some practice in applying the new method...will they then perceive their prior non-awareness of relationship respects.


In other words perhaps....we react in the moment with what we know. To react differently, we need to recognize why we react we do and try something new...but learning something new can be difficult and will take time to put the old to bed and adopt the new.


people generally use physical force in the specific conditions which they are pressured and/or practiced to apply. there will be events in a series of life experiences which have similar conditions to events of past and practice.


We do what we have learned....and perpetuate the cycles (good or bad) until we learn something new.


if you really want to understand your own type of practice ...try recognizing the conditions by which you may apply....physical force with or without exertive language force. there will be common conditions...and some which will be quite difficult to identify depending on how knowledgeable you may be regarding relationships personal or social and environmental.


If you want to know why you do what you do, look to all the circumstances in the moment when you make a choice to behave a certain way.....by knowing/accepting these circumstances and your reactions to them, only then can you get a better understanding of your reactions...if you have a good understanding of human relationships, you will find this an easy task...if you don't, you won't.


in such cases giving judgement to a person that has passed judgement or urgency to apply physical force is not recommended. people will allways respond for very good reasons (known or unknown) and will allways respond by some element of fear in light of prospective loss/injury.


Passing judgement upon someone who uses spanking/any form of physically aggressive behaviour is not a good idea. They will defend their position because of fear of loss of _____ (control in my personal story).


the key is knowledge and information and that begins with personal relationship facility. know thyself and become conscious of how and why you choose your response types.


You must know yourself first......understand why you do/say what you do in any given situation.

Is that close to a good understanding of what you wrote propurpose?
 propurpose
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 337
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 3:00:41 PM
...

quite so yes.

good on you.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 338
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:03:18 PM
propurpose, I was raised by authoritarian parents and I can say with a certainty that the relationship you describe between a child and an authoritarian parent applied in my case. The impact on self-esteem and more importantly self-expression (expression of self) when being raised by an iron-willed authoritarian parent is not to be dismissed so easily.

I do believe that many adults who were raised under this style of parenting have a tough time parenting. When you are used to being told what to do and more importantly how to feel and think, you become a carbon copy of your parents and yet inside, you feel like you are being authentic to who you really are - it is hard to think for yourself, to be confident in your decisions - the need for approval from without is strong. I know in my personal situation, it has been a long road finding who I am separate from who my parents tried to make me be. I still struggle at times with the need for external affirmation of who I am but at least I recognize it and with a bit of self-talk I can manage it. No doubt I drove my parents to distraction because I have always been very strong-willed (aka stubborn as hell) and spirited...not a good mix.

Of course, not every child raised in that environment turns out that way...my sister went to the other extreme. She went inside herself, seeking her own validation, realizing early on that our parents weren't going to give her the kind of love that is healthy...she essentially divorced them by the time she hit about 15 years of age. She has managed to be very successful in her life where I have struggled to succeed. She didn't seek nor care for their approval. She endured their criticism/punishments and did what she felt was right for her every step of the way. The difference in the outlook is what I think made the difference. I believed the negative things said about me and so I felt the strong need to please my parents (an impossible task), she dismissed them as rantings of parents who didn't know how to love. She has her own scars but they are not easily revealed except to those who know her well.
 Matthew__Angel
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 339
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:26:23 PM
I could not even imagine disrespecting my son by hitting/slapping/spanking him. He has never been physically reprimanded in his 10 year life.

I love him, I explain to him, I reinforce him, I educate him... but I would cut off my own hand before using it to cause him pain.

There is nothing that time and love and devotion can't fix. Hitting is a demeaning and sad way to parent in my opinion. Spend a few years in the school system and you become able to point out the children who are hit/spanked.

I encourage any parent to please think twice before doing it again.
 futureshock
Joined: 5/8/2009
Msg: 340
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 6:51:13 PM
Watch this video about how spanking feels to children:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPES67rRjrU&feature=player_embedded

Have any of you ever asked your children how they felt when you spanked them? I'm curious as to what their responses may have been.
 kriztee
Joined: 10/19/2009
Msg: 341
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:37:18 PM
When i was growing up i got occasional spankings when i did something that i shouldn't have. I don't know of any child who didn't. We grew up to be well rounded people who have thier lives together. There is a big difference in if a child gets spanked and a child gets abused. Kids are smart. They know when they do something wrong and they know there will be punishments. However, if a child gets abused it makes perfect sense that they will grow up unsure and it may be harder for them to excel in certain or all areas of thier lives. I guess my question is more of which study is this? Spankings or abuse?
 hooked_and_happy
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 342
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:38:53 PM

Have any of you ever asked your children how they felt when you spanked them? I'm curious as to what their responses may have been.

Go ahead and ask your kids how they feel about being put in time out or having thier favorite toy/blankie/video game, etc... taken away? What do you think they will say?

Heck, even things that aren't "punishment" could cause your kids greif. Sending them off to a mom or dad who they rarely see and don't want to go with, taking them to get a needle, making them do chores instead of playing with thier friends.

How do you think their responses to those might be?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 343
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:48:36 PM
Causing kids "grief" is very different than causing them to feel demeaned, humiliated and unloved.

This thread has been beaten to death (as, unfortunately are some children), but I am happy to say that I have finally seen some acknowledgment that hitting children, even though the occasional swat may be understandable (even if not productive) is simply not the best way to teach a child social adeptness.
 ConsciousSoul
Joined: 7/9/2008
Msg: 344
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 5:50:00 AM

Watch this video about how spanking feels to children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPES67rRjrU&feature=player_embedded
Have any of you ever asked your children how they felt when you spanked them? I'm curious as to what their responses may have been.


Thank you for this link, Futureshock, i'll add it to my parenting web portal.

Here is another little video about spanking :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUdWJZ__ms
 Matthew__Angel
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 345
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:33:09 AM
Sounds like a lot of parents feel that perhaps they don't have enough in their heads to raise their children so they end up hitting them out frustration.

Let me turn a previous posters question around.... HOW DOES THE PARENT feel while/after physically attacking their children? I'm sure you would find that child slapers/hitters all have one thing in common... The lack of sufficient intelligence to get a child to behave without attacking them.

Patterns. All about patterns.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 346
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:36:30 AM
Well Matthew, as a reformed spanker, I can admit to how I felt. I felt frustrated, scared and angry........ I can say I never felt good about spanking my child. I chose a different way to teach...more along the lines of what CSoul advocates.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 347
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:41:53 AM
Taken soul, I to have reformed from spanking. It was all I knew (learned from my parents) but from going to my support groups when I got the kids I learned there are other ways. I have to admit that I tend to follow supernanny's ways.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 348
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:14:38 AM
SSD, I've watched the show but don't like her methods. They are all about control IMO. I know they "work" and let's face it the kids she is dealing with are little hellions most of the time...a bit of boot camp parenting provides a quick fix to behavioural problems but don't you wonder what happens a month later in the home...I know I do.

I still prefer that my children choose wisely for themselves whether I am there or not, whether or not I will find out what they have been up to. I have studied a fair deal of psychology which may be why I find it easier to implement the suggestions put forth by CSoul because I can "buy into" the psychology aspect of it.

Timeouts, reward programs, etc....that SuperNanny advocates do work but again they work because of external punishment/rewards. I've used timeouts on occassion but after age 4, I find it so much more beneficial to talk to my kids about what they did. I do not punish on first offence but they know if the offence is repeated, there will be a consequence (for serious stuff). CSoul and I don't see eye to eye on this but I'm not quite ready to let it go....hehehehe...it works really well and they agree to the consequence long before it may be applied, it makes them accountable to themselves for their choices.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 349
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:24:29 AM
I don't agree with all her ways but some of the ideas are good, I just change them up a bit. Her bed time methods worked for me and the house rules and schedules and routines helped. I use time out as a cool down time more than a punishment then sit and discuss the problems, etc.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 350
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:30:23 AM
Yes, her ideas about providing consistency (routines) is good. I also like how she insists that "family time" be made a priority. With our busy lives, we sometimes forget the importance of family time that is based on having fun with each other.
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