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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:46:01 PM |
I do not punish on first offence but they know if the offence is repeated, there will be a consequence (for serious stuff). CSoul and I don't see eye to eye on this but I'm not quite ready to let it go....hehehehe..
You know, Istall, we aren't very far on our opinions about this either, if you think of it. Because, in a way, I never said that there should be no consequences for what kids do! I do believe however that there is a big difference between a "consequence" and "making amends" (or repairing).
The idea that every action holds a consequences does not need to be enforced for kids to understand this. First, they live consequences every day of their life as soon as they DO anything. A baby pulls something from the table and it crashes - that's a consequence. If you think about it, they learn that lesson quite quickly.
What parents really mean when they talk about consequences aren't natural consequences; they are artificial consequences imposed by the parent in order to teach a lesson about an artificial rule. In other words: if I pull the stuff on the table, it crashes down. This is the natural consequence. But that's not what the parents want the child to remember: what they want to teach is that you aren't supposed to pull things from the table.
Instead of punishment (which are useless as a teaching tool, cognitively speaking) , and threats of artificial consequences, (which are associated with a lot of negative impact, and is external), why not use reparation?
"Oh ho! The stuff on the table went down. What can you do to help put it back the way it was?" and let the child come up with a way to repair it. He learns that there are consequences to each actions: and these consequences are that... when you cross someone else's need, you need to repair what you did. Which can be both fun and empowering, no need to have the consequence necessarily be painful (although sometimes it's not fun to repair).
It's not something you threaten in advance, because otherwise you are teaching through threats and power. It's rather a gesture of mentoring, a way to tell the kid: "Ouch! You did X and Y. But it caused this consequence Z and this crosses my boundary because it causes this and that effect, and causes me to feel that or this way. Can you help me think of a way to make it all better now? Then can you help me do it?"
And it works amazingly well, especially if used since early on, because kids will feel a lot of pride when they can help, they feel empowered, loved, they understand what to do instead of what not to do, and they learn "consequences" far better than any artificial punishment or threat could teach them.
Could you provide, perhaps, a concrete example of a situation where you felt necessary to impose some potential threats as a second offense? I would be curious to see how we could have turned it so that it uses reparation instead. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:42:21 PM | ...
i had relinquished power and control. never wanted it. unless it was sport.
now that i consider it so closely. i had both self and social integrity.
but in others disorganization i had fits to help them see more/better.
and that is not about control. it is about personal organization.
and in the big world. come not same nor equal in view or practice.
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:54:05 PM | ...
i am not the spanker type. i am a communicator. something my father was not.
to me at least.
and thats ok. i know he loved me and i certainly identify with him in many a big way.
and if that makes me hard to live with myself....so be it. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:38:55 AM | I am not sure that there is a correlation between spanking and IQ, there are so many other contributing factors. A child who is spanked often may have a developmental disorder and becasue there parent has not figured that out yet, they think that they are disciplining them. To further that, an IQ test is a standardized test and the results can be inaccurate if the child's perception of the test is different. I would implore you to pull the actual study that these results come from and look at the pool of participants, the demographics of where they live and the actual statistical results. These results could be misleading...
Just a thought... | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:37:29 AM |
Could you provide, perhaps, a concrete example of a situation where you felt necessary to impose some potential threats as a second offense? I would be curious to see how we could have turned it so that it uses reparation instead.
Homework completion comes to mind right off the top of my head. The first time my son's teacher sent a note home about his failure to complete homework, I sat him down and shared the note with him. I asked him for an explanation why he had not completed his homework. His answer was along the lines of I forgot. I explained to him the importance of getting homework done and staying caught up with what was being taught so that when tests came he would do well. I reminded him that I was not going to stand over him and make sure he did his homework as I felt that was his only responsibility and he needed to take responsibility for it. I then told him that if it happened again, I would be removing his computer time for a couple of days (that was the hinderance to his homework completion as I saw it). I never had to take his computer away and to an extent it is a consequence...not a punishment at all. If the computer playtime was interfering with his ability to remember his homework and find the time to get it done, removing the computer would remove his "excuse".
propurpose - thank you for the compliment. I agree that we all have different perspectives based on our own experiences. Like you, I hold no ill will towards my parents...they did the best they could with what they knew and I really was a difficult child to handle (much like my daughter...very stubborn and spirited). Like you, I do like to try and get people see things from a different perspective...what they do with that insight is up to them. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:50:26 AM | ...
they are the gentle which strike where there loves be breached.
some men and some women strike with a feral unexpectancy from their former selves.
my own father was a very gentle man until what was loathesome of him (realizations/experiences bringing confusion/hostility) were enabled by drink ...
his expressions of animosity were his confusions ... his shame. i was victimized because i reminded him of what he was and what did not like of himself.
events of him abusing myself were in reality...him beating himself up by the love of me.
and as strange as that sounds ... i now know it to be true. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/29/2009 11:52:06 AM | ...domestic violence mannerisms are the gross of loves shadows.
the animals which were beat back by modern encroachment held on as tight as they could and moved from the nest of peacefull production.
man has such pride that he will unleash his most precious of fears to his family...
mad with desire to the acceptance...
men (and women of course) which bottle up their awareness tensions must at event or interval release them.
how it is released depend on the very momentary realization ... the greater the fear...the greater love support and respond.
people do kill one an other with love.
its true. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:24:18 PM | propurpose, I have decided that you are nearly as insightful as you are indecipherable. 
Yes, we hurt the most those we love the most. That is not an excuse, although the fact that you can see the good in those who do so is heartening. Frankly, I find it a shame to be so enlightened. Peace to you. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:10:56 AM | ...
many are the confused ...some of which will not want to have their own fears or fears of others deciphered.
in their respones (responsibilities) are glimpsed the contradictories of deception.
"...although the fact that you can see the good in those who do so is heartening. "
but ...... "...I find it a shame to be so enlightened."
so...to "see the good" is "heartening" but to be aware or with that knowledge is "shame" to the respondent. a contradiction which invite perception of two purposes in the respondent. a.) ... to congratulate me on my talent at seeing good where others see not good ..which translates as an unspoke "i am gratefull and accept you for that effort/experience/practice" ...followed by the non-accepting shame of someone (me or the respondent) which had seen some enlightenment (knowledge/truth).
peace to me had come by the enlightenment. the truth of it not ever astray. though i travelled long and purposefully the path in exploration of its worldly expression.
peace to you will be conditioned by how you manage the knowledge and purpose of conditional good relative to unconditional shame which at this interval guard you from more full truth ....to have your purpose with the relativities which each of you may share sparingly of.
that is your choice. be well all ways | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 12:22:58 PM | Beautiful words in that song...I wonder how many people will take the time to listen to them......
Propurpose, when people become enlightened to the suffering and can embrace those that have hurt them, it changes them. To be able to clearly see suffering everywhere is very difficult to handle emotionally for most of us. You've alluded to your upbringing in your posts and I have a picture in my mind of what you went through....it is a testament to the true nature of humans to see that you looked inwards and found a peace within you...we are all capable of it but so few take that path....that is what is truly shameful.
Humans are incredibly resilient and we have an immense capacity to love...some are nurtured into having that consciousness, others are subjected to "difficult" upbringings and have to find that path as adults........
Treating our children with dignity and respect is the key to changing the world...... | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 12:54:19 PM | ...hi taken.
yes. it would be very difficult to manage emotionally.
but that is what children and others are asked to manage when it had been of such sensationalist economic prosperities for western community. or others.
my allusion to my own father relationship was to show i could understand it and not be speaking as if from some blind. i could say much more about father relationship. and you will have seen that the loving person he was in his way would be shame on me if i had been negligent of recognizing and relating here. here...the only place i had ever spoke in public sense of it. .... of those real years of dedication he put in.
the thread was not about me however ...it was a thread begun by your self soul lady and it was begun with interest to know what receptions you may get re: "does this change your mind about spanking your child..?"
i had been on a path ... not of wanting to heal from my fathers abusive manners ... i had accepted that years ago....and there were trusts between my father and i which would not betray one another. we had a genetic and spiritual understanding of one another i suppose it may be described as. that being said ...
my path had been one of much diversion to know why people behaved .
to know as much as i could about the mysterious human creatures in their strange environments....
everything i could know...given my scant resources and persistent curiousities.
so...i had searched and observed and talked and researched and all the while tried to find my own way in a world where the only interests i had were getting as close as i could to my own life path or purpose or destiny....
i had been living it all the while.....though sometime confused.....much because i was learning what people and society accepted of others and what they did not accept...
all of it of course conditional to purpose and cultural environmental relationship.
i appreciate your affirmations soul lady but please do not conclude that my input here were motivated by my father relationship...
it were to all of your benefits ...
and you are probably correct....denial by some with other purposes means that they will not further respond....nor even investigate the gifts.
that is ok. they yet learned some truths.
be well all of you | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 1:29:51 PM | ...
i have got quite comfortable in discussing human relationship.
but it were not all ways such. first off ... a child which has not mind to relate specifically which would satisfy the mundane of human considerations ... when the child be non mundane by nature. ...mental non preoccupation.
although a diplomat had been seeded by me. again ... my father had a quiet diplomacy that perhaps only my mother could compliment by her balance of articulation.
my mother were the leader in a social sense. my father were the minstrel ... lover.
lord grant me privilege to use a few words here where gushes behold.
however ... my early curiosities and developing language awareness with free style and traditional learning modalities grant me gifts or tools if you agree ... to communicate.
it may seem i like to dominate this category and that is not what i am trying to do.
any more than they whom subsided responding yield in light of their most recent realizations. and that you must accept responsibility for.
it is not my own to accept for you what may seem strange.
i may accept my expression ... and what impress me of you.
i got it mostly all figured out.
and what is best ... is that you all knew it too ....intooitively.
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 1:51:35 PM | ...
look. any of you which call for "control" as a form of behaviour modification is not fully informed of the limitations in such a complicated and diverse relationship.
there are two realizations common to most if not all child abuses.
absence of knowledge with urgency and/or planning in power (authority) relationship.
see that ...? not understanding the relationship fully in the fear creating .. anger creating....shame creating behaviour. because if you did see more the relationship truths you would know how to respond in a manner which not only refrained from physically or mentally-emotionally abusing someone else (child(ren)) or any other person ... but would also know exactly how to respond to heal the behavioural confusions from becoming worse. were the knowledge apparent.
many people are the simple which have not mind or language training to realize knowledges of social conditions or relationship conditions which assist where cultural tradition....custom.......contradictory social cues are trying to be managed in subcultures of society and social economy.
i guess it is easier to imagine the number of ways a person such as i could get your attentions by using ideas in conscious application with a purpose.
so ... the contradiction is that in a social discourse such as this it can be assumed that some will line up on one side and some on the other side and they each will cluster around ideas of relationship to a theme ...such as spanking. but the relationship is a deception because it makes you think you need to belong to one side or the other and then perpetrate the very deed in your purpose that you are either arguing for or against.
diplomacy of language....as my dear hostess in soul lady show so well ....is necessary to balance the confusing....and partially explained relationship values and behaviours to those values which get us emotional with love or divided by fear .
oh ... these gifts for you. it must mean i am near my end. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:21:41 PM | ...
children are not economic entities. they should not be punished for hurrying through shopping centres or dawdling.
you say. "but the child must listen and come when i say"
i say. 'no...do not think in terms of power and priority to achievement of mundane tasks' mundane = any activity and behaviour which do not benefit the full of the mind feeling body where the child may be only presently physically...mind and emotion contingent to conscious and objective phenomena by relationship. so..shopping for a child is a non-fullfilling task if the child become fatigued...or confused.
same for automobiles. same for education in many a sense.
if you think in terms of child respects it would be incumbent of any or you to know some basics of what is a child. and what do a child benefit by environmentally.
see ....what i am getting at. if the priorities is not the child and the child is socially integrated by force and control ....and guile. then you are tempted to respond in a manner which makes less the respects of child.
a child must not learn any of knowledge that do not benefit it. and i think we need to be carefull that child adapt to natural environments for health and knowledge.....of respects.
to benefit all | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:26:32 PM | ...
and i may as well say it.
that children are consuming images of social behaviour as in crime sprees and imaginary conquesting do mislead child consciousness......to respond emotionally....to respond mentally...and always physically to the objective phenomena.
so...in truth and of my very sensitive awareness to this. children are not well integrated into adulterated imagery and practice.
that is quite haughty i know. but...if one person less were to parent a child of prematurity by any non-natural imagery there would be much less stress and pressure to hide that which you do not know how to explain...or worse...neglect totally.
you are asking that child to respond to what is inhumanly human. imaginary. fear transmission....in fact.
a child has no real responsibility to accept adult fears where the child is not prepared too.
and any fear that come to that person (child) by social facility (including television and film....etc.) should must be accepted by the persons responsible.
and children.....are dumbed to the confusing and sensational of social imaginary creation. because most people fare not well to explain how a prescient being should respond to social creations and cues which are foreign to the mind feeling body of the child.
that means there are a lot of children already abused by society which do not want to accept knowledge or responsibility for.
and that means society is responsible for what society support.
but remember....telling someone they can't sell those dvd's of questionable mental emotional value would be fighting for expression rights. and the best way to be prepared for that is by having the knowledge available...prepared. to off-set....heal..even....the distortions to person or society.
eventually...the sales persons would see its cause / affect relationship and make it more positive and constructive....loving.
folx...i don't mean nor intend to eliminate all fear from the world...but a right to balance would be appreciated.
be well | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:31:49 PM | ^^^^ wow, wish you could impart some of that wisdom to the father of my daughter.........he sees nothing wrong with exposing her to images that are frightening to her imagination. He figures the only way to make her not afraid is to expose her to that which she fears..........not realizing that some fears are "normal" for a child her age and will naturally disappear as she matures mentally/cognitively......
~heavy sigh~ | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:43:29 PM | ...it is interesting for sure.
fears are natural. such as.....do that tornado coming toward me mean i should get out of the way...?
and fears are synthetic. ... that image on the monitor with that mean looking man making violent movements to ward that other image.
that is only imaginary for a premature and the premature cannot be expected to nor can it accept the non-experience of a violent assault.
but it poses such invasion possibilities to the childs normal development by imposition that absences of that knowledge alone provide sensationalistic entertainments opportunity to over-see post natal development.
most peculiar.
and there are many more examples.
and i love you for tolerating my gush.
i am sure your family will see the sense. keep souling. | |
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| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:53:52 PM | ...but you don't force the creators of fear to cease creating fear.
any more than you would force the creators of pornography to cease creation of synthetically guided natural love-making in body.
but moderation by gifted such as you soul lady....and all of you bring your own gifts ...i know would be a wonderfull prospectus to balance the unhealthy encroachments into child living space ...or childs integrations......without laws. but human relationship respects facilities.
believe me. it is only a change of attitude by revisioning with appropriate knowledge bases. eureka. | |
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