| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:09:48 PM | [so...to "see the good" is "heartening" but to be aware or with that knowledge is "shame" to the respondent. a contradiction which invite perception of two purposes in the respondent. a.) ... to congratulate me on my talent at seeing good where others see not good ..which translates as an unspoke "i am gratefull and accept you for that effort/experience/practice" ...followed by the non-accepting shame of someone (me or the respondent) which had seen some enlightenment (knowledge/truth).]
My words were not meant to offend at all. There is a difference between shame, which breaks down one's self esteem, and referring to something as "a shame" The realization that someone you love, who does love you, knows not how to show that love without causing you harm, IS a shame, shame on them, and a shame that you had to come to that realization at all. I may be wrong, but I believe that you see good not where others do not, but in spite of that which is not good. The fact that you were able to rise above it is a testament to the kindness of your soul, (not to mention being fortunate enough to possess the intelligence & logic to see the wrongdoing) but there are many whose self esteem has been so lowered that they believe that they deserve to be treated thusly, and treat their own children the same; they believe it is a part of love, rather than the inability to express love or to parent. I suspect that your own children (if you have them, or will in the future) will not know such shame, and I think you'd agree that they are fortunate for that. One has no need to be so enlightened. | |
|
| |
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 3:56:40 AM | | Look at what has happened since we quit spanking our children. Everywhere you go, there are children who disrespect there mothers. The children are telling parents what to do. The grades of school children are getting worse, whats the penalty they face if they get an "F" ? They would probally get a bribe from their mother --- pick up your grade and i'll get you that new game you want. So the question is, does spanking work "Hell Yeah", bring it back I say. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:48:39 AM | letscnow your last post brought tears to my eyes......such a beautifully written and so "human" a post is not often seen in these parts..... keep them coming does spanking work hell yeah | |
|
| |
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 8:22:05 AM | | letscnow, there is another explanation for what you see....parents are not being parents....kids are not receiving actual parenting but rather parents are acting more like babysitters than parents. Jellyfish parents can create the types of children you describe. Firm but fair parents who do not spank their children don't.... | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:08:51 AM |
Firm but fair parents who do not spank their children don't....
Firm but fair parents who do or who have spanked thier children don't create unruly kids either. Parents who spank aren't bad parents and DO raise well behaved, smart kids.
Just because your experience was abusive, doesn't mean all parents who spank fall into the same catagory. There are exceptions to everything. Yours is one of them.
As for "parents not being parents"... we aren't allowed to be parents anymore. We aren't allowed to raise our voices or discipline in the manner that works best for us without the government stepping in and telling us what we can and cannot do. Or without other parents (and people who claim to be "experts") stepping in and making everyone else follow what THEY think is best.
Lets not forget about the story of the Quebec girl who sued her dad (and won) all because he punished her by not letting her go on a class trip. Who's the parent here? | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:23:47 AM | Just because your experience was abusive, doesn't mean all parents who spank fall into the same catagory.
We can agree to disagree here....we do not HAVE to agree. I personally think that hitting someone (regardless of who it is) constitutes assault on that person.
As for "parents not being parents"... we aren't allowed to be parents anymore. We aren't allowed to raise our voices or discipline in the manner that works best for us without the government stepping in and telling us what we can and cannot do. Or without other parents (and people who claim to be "experts") stepping in and making everyone else follow what THEY think is best.
Strangely enough I rarely had to raise my voice with my son, nor did I have to spank him and he is a well-adjusted, good teenager....must be a miracle I guess. You can choose your parenting methods or feel paralyzed to parent because of fear...I don't parent by fear. I have a job to do and I'm doing it.....I would challenge any person who tried to take my kids from me....they would simply have no grounds.
As for the other parents and "experts", nobody is "making" anyone do anything...nobody can "make" anyone do anything. What experts do is share what works based on their studies and knowledge of development of the brain/intellect. What parents do is share what worked with their kids. If someone wants to dismiss what is being said, it is their right to do so. An open mind is a good thing to have. I had an open mind until I educated myself on what the experts had to say about spanking and self-esteem...the door on spanking as a useful tool slammed shut after that.
Lets not forget about the story of the Quebec girl who sued her dad (and won) all because he punished her by not letting her go on a class trip. Who's the parent here?
I'm not familiar with the case so I cannot comment. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:30:50 AM |
I'm not familiar with the case so I cannot comment.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/04/07/mtl-quebecgirl-sues-dad-0407.html
Strangely enough I rarely had to raise my voice with my son, nor did I have to spank him and he is a well-adjusted, good teenager....must be a miracle I guess.
It's not a miracle, all kids are different. I swear that when my daughter was about 5, she was the spawn of satan. She was a horrible child that I thought couldn't be tamed. I had spanked her several times... she wasn't scared of me at all. But she didn't like being spanked, so she'd usually listen to what I had to say. My son, on the other hand, was a peach... still is. I've never yelled at him once. They are ALL different, and must be parented as such.
An open mind is a good thing to have.
Agreed. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:41:56 AM | Hi hooked...I read the article. I'm shocked but then nothing much that comes out of Quebec surprises me...perhaps Mom is a francophone and Dad an anglo......
It seems that the daughter was using the internet after being told by Dad not to (perhaps while with Mom). If that is the case, Dad cannot dictate what happens at Mom's house, nor can he punish the child for what the mother allows. The statement near the end about the issue being between Mom and Dad is very telling.
"Going to court was a last resort," said Lucie Fortin, a legal aid attorney who represented the girl. "The question was that there was a problem between the father and the mother, and the child asked the court to intervene because it was important to her.
The hardest part about co-parenting is accepting the loss of control over what happens in the other home....if control is important to you that is. This case was it seems more over Dad trying to exercise control over what happens when the child is with the mother......not his right to use grounding as a means of punishment. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:53:10 AM | You and I see it differently then, I see it as an ungrateful child who wanted her way and decided that court would be a good idea. It's a shame the mom didn't step in before it got to that point as well. But I brought up this whole ordeal as part of the "parenting" issue. If taking a parent to court over grounding is even an option, then what does the future of parenting have in store for us who just want to do the right thing? We know our kids... and we're the ONLY ones who know our kids. Therefore when it comes down to discipline, we are the only ones who know what will work and what doesn't work.
The hardest part about co-parenting is accepting the loss of control over what happens in the other home....if control is important to you that is.
I wouldn't know, I've never had to c0-parent. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 10:05:15 AM |
I wouldn't know, I've never had to c0-parent.
You are fortunate! I co-parent and trust me, it is not easy. Both my ex and I have strong opinions about "best interests of child" and rarely do we agree. There have been times when he has called me over to his house to "rescue our daughter" from him after they have gone a few rounds of physical punishment. He knows I don't approve (the last incident was a slapping match they got into with each other.....). No matter how many times we try to discuss and resolve issues to provide consistency to our 4 year old, we fail. He is a heavy handed bully, he believes I should spank first, talk later. Our daughter is better behaved when she is with me than she is when she is with her father so I'm not about to change what is not broken in my home.
He has told me I should spank her and then told me that if I do to be prepared because she has a high tolerance for it (aka it doesn't work well and he has to hit her harder and more often). I can see him at some point trying to deliver a severe punishment that is not merited by the offense and asking me to support it. Then we will also have problems because he will NOT dictate punishment in my home EVER. If necessary, I would support our daughter seeking remedy through the courts, but only if what he was doing was IMO abusive and extreme.
That being said, not all parents are "good" parents...some take punishment to levels that are inappropriate and children deserve to have some remedy to protect them from these kinds of parents. You see it often in family court that children will reach an age where their voice matters to the court and they will seek out to live with one parent and divorce the other. Is that a bad thing? It could be given the potential for parents to manipulate their children. Parents earn the quality of relationship they have with their child........ | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 10:20:48 AM |
He has told me I should spank her and then told me that if I do to be prepared because she has a high tolerance for it (aka it doesn't work well and he has to hit her harder and more often)
I don't know him at all, but that right there is not the way to go. I've never "spanked harder or more often" if it never worked the first time.
I speak first, explain why they should stop the behaviour and why it's wrong and let them know if it continues there will be a spanking. It rarely comes to that. Your "c0-parent" is a bully and that's one of the reasons spanking shouldn't be used by everyone. I'm not a bully and my kids have alot of respect for my authority. They don't fear me and they know everything I do for them is out of love.
Parents earn the quality of relationship they have with their child........
That goes both ways. | |
|
| |
| |
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:10:19 PM | | I believe that love can be unconditional, and that respect and trust works both ways. In anycase, it is the responsibility of the parent to guide the relationship that grows between a parent and a child. To put such responsibility on a child, who has no experience in such matters prior to your teaching them, seems preposterous. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 8:56:17 PM | itsallinthesoul, thanks! You seem like a good mom!
I have to respond to a few points that have been brought up:
We most certianly have NOT stopped spanking our children. Ask any kid, even if their parents won't admit to it. What we have stopped doing is parenting. Parenting is teaching, modeling behavior & applying consequences that fit specific behaviors. People have become lazy & selfish, choosing to spend their time in pursuit of the McMansion, and not spending time directing their children & participating in their lives. The lame excuse for doing so is the purported "need" for children to feel as if everything they endeavor must result in a sense of accomplishment The result is that they do not see that failure is a part of success. Participation in any activity results in receiving a medal; whole language has replaced phonics, and "creative spelling" is acceptable. This is why children have become unruly, imo.
[I see it as an ungrateful child who wanted her way and decided that court would be a good idea. It's a shame the mom didn't step in before it got to that point as well. But I brought up this whole ordeal as part of the "parenting" issue. If taking a parent to court over grounding is even an option, then what does the future of parenting have in store for us who just want to do the right thing? We know our kids... and we're the ONLY ones who know our kids. Therefore when it comes down to discipline, we are the only ones who know what will work and what doesn't work. ]
Gratefulness is not inherent, it is taught. It is likely that the child in this case was granted her sense of entitlement by one or both of her parents, likely in an effort to "get back" at the other, or as the result of a power struggle. If you suggest that administering a spanking would have made a difference, then I suggest you are merely finding defenses for your position. From your other posts, hooked, you have shown that, while you advocate spanking, you don't often find it necessary. Your own words disprove that which you are defending. No one, child or adult, is perfect, and I find it hard to believe that anyone has grown personally from being hit.
As far as being taken to court, sure it seems ridiculous, but who hires the civil rights attorneys to defend their child's "right" to wear whatever they want in an educational environment? The same parents who tell their kids to "suck it up" when they are afraid to take the bus to school. that's who. Many a dollar is spent promoting defiance, then we blame it on the fact that parents don't hit their kids? Our children are being misguided when it comes to civil rights Parents refuse to hold a child back who is well below grade level "so as not to hurt their self esteem", resulting in the rest of the class being forced to endure that child's disruptive behavior, and making it more difficult for them to learn.
All else aside, there is a huge difference between giving a child a swat on the rear, and using corporal punishment as a teaching mechanism. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:26:27 PM |
if a child is not given the borders of which they can act and do what ever children do..and only have a stern verbal warning..then are not going to heed it (not in all cases..just more so if they weren't spanked).. just look at the kids of today... most of them are no longer spanked..so they grow up with a rebelious verbally aggressive nature.. i was spank as a child..i have a high IQ and rather quite succesful.. so it is quite redudant, subjective and relative to be perfectly honest.
and there is a difference between spanking and abusing your child.
The OP of this post got it dead on. Spanking your child and abusing them are too different things. Children know how far to take it and want to see if they can go a little bit further which they soon find out that they can't when they have been warned once too many times and that they are about to be spanked.
I have spanked my kids when they deserved it and they are fine. The only times it becomes ridiculous and a poor attempt at disciplining your child when they get older and spankings no longer work. I have also taken away the things that my children loved the most like video games, television privileges, and such and it works for me and them. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:47:54 PM | [The OP of this post got it dead on. Spanking your child and abusing them are too different things. Children know how far to take it and want to see if they can go a little bit further which they soon find out that they can't when they have been warned once too many times and that they are about to be spanked.
I have spanked my kids when they deserved it and they are fine. The only times it becomes ridiculous and a poor attempt at disciplining your child when they get older and spankings no longer work. I have also taken away the things that my children loved the most like video games, television privileges, and such and it works for me and them.]
Agreed, there is a difference between a swat & abuse but this thread has taken many turns. "Deserved" & "they are fine" are very subjective; is there ever a time, as adults, when hitting someone is "deserved"?. I differ about the "the only time it becomes ridiculous" being when they are older. Much of the vehement posts regarding spanking were directed at those who hit toddlers. Toddlers most certainly do NOT "know how far to take it". Many of those, myself included, are arguing the fact that spanking teaches. Even if children learn that doing something will result in a spanking, do you believe that they learn the alternative, appropriate behavior through the spanking itself? | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:13:55 AM | ...
let me help in this a little more if i may. and those of you which yet purport spanking as a behaviour are not informed. and you are also not helping with the child respects or parental conditions respects. ergo. danger implied in extra-familiar authoritarian establishment. i am not familiar with the quebec try. but i know enough about respects to know that if a child can take her parent to court for not paying for an event..and win...then the court establish that a child has more wisdom than the parent(s) which do sufficiently or not sufficiently to the supporting denial argument against the contribution.
not all abrupt physical movements to a non-voting age citizen is deemed abuse.
if i pull my child back from the oncoming traffic. i am effectively responding to save life and decrease risk of injury. that occur by the transitions of society which are not effectively communicated because of movements of various sized objects with many different purposes shaping and ordering the child consciousness body to its highly disrespectfull and invasive to the prescient physical being.
now but...if by the endeavour of the real or imagined automobile which be oncoming in the path of my unaware 10 y/o cause me to stick my finger in the eye and scratching the cornea because the head turned to the urgent scream which were initial alarm as i was reaching for the closest hand-tie point to that person...which was the coat hood or such.
am i deemed abusive..? one fear response act to decrease risk of injury to a child which did save the childs life and which did occur because the rules of road and rules of pedestrianism function together best if all other conditions be accepting.
can a child sue for losing % of sight to the eye ..?
can a child sue if the parent determine that not going to an extended educational social function if the parent is able or not able to explain why that child should not be present there..? is the fore-sight of planning to the focal and extended relationship of child respectable that may have concern of the conditions change of environment which the parent respect of feeling and body if not so able mentally/articulately...?
the court had better show what risks are present in the over-rulership of parental respects which respond to exigencies of fear.......operated by legal offices.
else be considered quite haughty and disrespectfull finally in the mirror of such deception to child care.
may good sense rule
and depart abusive insensible relationship of authority | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:31:27 AM | ...
as for those of you which continue your "right of spanking as a behaviour modifier as punishment or deterrent and social modifier" you remain in unsafe terrain because you are the very person which need information so that the persons which are directly in line of the attacks and scourges of the fear seekers and pretentious of socio economy (legal extended offices)....child protection services and that range of legal mind-craze continuum....
you the spanker which remain non-identified and but for legal purposes to continue debate and remain blind to conditions which benefit your economy and support abusive disrespectfull behaviour/relationship also have two human rights violations against you....1.)...you dimly and unreasonably support physical contact of exertive forces against non-experienced and less able to defend persons. ....the dim and non-reason in light of more full conditions and facilitations show your ostensibilities for other purposes. child care is not your priority. and not more full relationship information. because you ignore better sense of knowledge.
and 2.)...you keep the other side of legal and extended office prepared to argue that unaware entities of parental or custodial managements to children require their own punishments so for not to abuse children.
both sides mostly neglecting child respects in the moderations.
if economy is your priority. then the legal agent of child care and protection be as menace to they which try for economy. by the disguise of child care the child become more vulnerable. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:39:08 AM | ...
answer this question please.
for what purpose did you last strike or scream and scare your child...?
please....consider.....respond.
try . if you are able to. you know now a better response. | |
|
| Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2009 10:38:37 AM | ...the boss types.
there is the physical boss. the mental boss. and the emotional boss.
ab use.
the incorrect relationship exchange. the event which occur by relationship where disagreement ensue by realizations party to each ...of ten quite non explained.
ab use
one person seek control of an other ... or act to balance awareness of respects.
one to an other. the conditions desired of one with informations awareness and personal integrities of each to consider. each having their own awareness.
the experiences differences and knowledge relationship conditions applications possibilities are so enormous that it would be rare that each knew the other ...
and of ten that one would not explain its S(s) elf ... for its self or an other.
abuse as control to children is such prevalent in these our modern era ...
and dumbfound were as witness. | |
|
| |
| |
Home
login 
