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 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 26
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 2 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
it does not leave any kind of damage phsyiscally nor emotionally as they determine how to rationalise and learn alot of discipline.


That is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. They learn when you are angry and have no control over your emotions, you hit to relieve that stress.


we spank children to let them know the boundaries


Most spank children for there OWN selfish reasons.

I am not saying that a swat on the bottom occasionally has no place anywhere in the life of a child. As I said, I have done it myself. What I am saying is that if we think it if we think consistent physical contact against a child in a precalculated and agressive way is teaching them life long bounaries and teaching them how to be productive citizens or anything of the sort and we are sadly mistaken.

 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 27
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:59:08 AM
[So out of curiosity, what measures do you switch to when your child is too old to be spanked? And how old is too old? And furthering that thought, if it's effective, why don't we spank adults? If someone goes over their maximum spending account at work, why can't we spank them?]

That is just silly.

Wouldn't it be nice if the only punishment we got was a spanking on the butt when we do something wrong. How nice that would be to suffer a little red derriere if it would let the bank forgive me for overspending... better yet, why don't we just spank the murderers who have taken a life instead. I believe that anyone locked away in prison right now would really wish they could just get spanked for their transgressions instead of having their freedom taken away.

Throw a hissy fit at 4 and learn that there are rules with serious ramifications or don't learn it and throw that same hissy fit at 21 at work, lose your job and get arrested for disorderly conduct.

You know when spanking stops??? When the child grows up enough to realize that the spanking isnt the worst punishment he could get. It then looses its effectiveness. I spank but suck at it... it is 10 seconds of being over my knee and then back up. Know when i realized she was too old to be spanked??? When I put her in time-out and she asked me, 'just spank me?'. But want to know a secret??? With her dad, spanking works... with me, time-out works. with my son - just holding her on his lap works... with grandma - guilt works. Each child is different and reacts differently to each adult in each situation. Know what doesn't work? Letting the child get away with thinking he/she controls the environment. Nothing worse than a megalomaniacal child being enabled.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 28
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 10:59:15 AM
like i said, i was spanked as a child.. so was my sister, cousins, parents and friends and none of them have hit another person just because they may have done something "wrong". If you are a good parent, you will know what and how to teach them on the rights and wrongs of social interaction.. and you greatly under estimate children..as they are highly intelligent from the day they are born.. in fact more often then not, children are more intelligent then they are when they are adults for they have to do an incredible amount of learning in a short amount of time.

so, if you spank your children and you raise them well..they will not hit another unless it is justified..i.e self defense.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 29
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:00:30 AM
madarnj.. you do not do it to relieve stress.. and if you think that is why all parents do it then you are "stupidly" misinformed.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 30
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:00:51 AM
Honestly I have never resorted to physical violence with any of the children I have watched. When I watched my neices and nephews if they misbehaved I'd put them in the corner or send them to their room. Never seemed to have a problem with them staying in their corner or staying in their room. When it was time to come out of the corner I'd get them, ask them if they understood why they were being punished, talk to them and reassure them that I still love them, and then spring them from the corner and their behavior problems would cease until I was done watching them. Now with an older child, probably like 10 or older, I'd probably just take something away, like a favorite toy or video game, until they could learn to behave.
 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 31
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:03:55 AM
[That is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. They learn when you are angry and have no control over your emotions, you hit to relieve that stress. ]

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Perhaps you shouldn't spank your child because if you do it out of anger, you are abusing them. I have never spanked my child out of anger. I have never hit to relieve stress. Perhaps in your world it is that way. Not mine. You are the abuser if you do that. Not me.

My dad taught us to never hit out of anger. He would go quiet, point to the room and tell us to wait. We would wait until he cooled off...sometimes up to an hour... then he would come in with my mother, explain that what we did was wrong, hear our side of the story and then and only then...would we get paddled. With a paddle - not his hand.

I do the same with mine. Never, ever have I hit out of anger. I am the adult. To those adults who dont understand the difference, you need to never spank because it is abuse when you do it. To those of us who know the rules... we'll keep using it. It is our nuclear option.
 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 32
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:06:58 AM

madarnj.. you do not do it to relieve stress..


Then what do I do it for?!

I am not so grossly misinormed in thinking it is going to teach my child to never back talk me again or to listen to everything I tell her to do. It is a knee jerk reaction to that particular situation.

In actuality it does not relieve stress, just causes more. But, in the heat of the moment, we act irrationally.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 33
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:09:24 AM
i have a pre-set "list" of what is right or wrong..like if they break something intentionally or paint/draw on the walls..that is a certain situation that justifies a smack on the bum or the back of the legs.. but back chat? no.. not for back chat unless the swear prefusely.
 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 34
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:10:12 AM
madarnj - you are an abuser if you hit to relieve stress. You should never, ever hit anyone and you should seek counsel for anger management. Perhaps you didn't learn this as a child... I did because I watched my father contain his anger with the stupid things I did to push buttons.

My son has learned how to contain his anger by watching me... just as my little one will watch as well. I am glad you are breaking that cycle but don't bunch us all in your category. We aren't.
 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 35
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:11:38 AM
My dad taught us to never hit out of anger. He would go quiet, point to the room and tell us to wait. We would wait until he cooled off...sometimes up to an hour... then he would come in with my mother, explain that what we did was wrong, hear our side of the story and then and only then...would we get paddled. With a paddle - not his hand.


Well, there you go. I absoulutely disagree with that type of spanking and punishment.

The paddle, wooden spoon, etc. are abuse in my opinion. Making a child cowar and wait for their punishment is abuse in my opinion.

Would it not be better if your father cooled off and then heard your side of story, gave you a hug and moved on with the day? I don't understand what adding the paddling inot the equation added to it.

Just my opinion. We are going to disagree and it is what it is.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 36
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:13:32 AM
my parents were cained at school..never did them any harm.. besides a blister or two on the hand for a few days.. now they are intelligent highly succesful people.
 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 37
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:17:25 AM
cower??? you think I was cowering??? Lol, then you don't know me. i wasn't cowering. I was screaming and yelling and telling him that he can't tell me what to do. I just knew that when my dad was mad, truly mad.... that I needed to obey him.

I respected him and as you seen in my post... it was only after hearing our side of the story that he would paddle us. Then after, he would go out to the shed and put a hole in the board. We kept that old board for years and I think among 5 kids, there were only 17 holes in the wood.
 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 38
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:18:56 AM
have a pre-set "list" of what is right or wrong


Ah, there you go.

Children test out limits, especially toddlers. They are not privy to your set list of rights and wrongs. So, in your case, they do something on your list, and they get hit. They do something else, they get hit.

Process of elimination is very stressful for children.

I was not attacking you personally about your choice of discipling, nor that you make your children "cower". That is what I have seen in some cases of the discipline tactics you describe. You are taking this too personally. Those that use physical contact on their children are going to defend their actions, those that use it sparingly, or not at all will defend their and we ALL have our reasons for it.

I was not taken to a room and paddled or hit with a spoon as a child, and I choose not to do that with my child. She has been spanked twice in her life and all it did was to cause her to have an emotional breakdown and taught her nothing.

Parenting with discipline is a cycle. We do what we know. You both were spanked, so you choose to spank, in whatever form you do it in. That is your choice.

 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 39
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:18:58 AM

I spanked my ex-wife. Are you telling me I should have gone to jail?


that depends on whether or not she asked for it (verbally asked for it) and whether it was part of a punishment thing or a pleasure thing for her

One does have to wonder though at the correlation between pain and sexual pleasure......but that would be an entirely different thread for a different forum altogether.


That's the problem with all of this. Some people think hugging is inappropriate too. Pretty soon all human physical contact will be outlawed because somebody has found something that makes it inappropriate... in the setting they've examined. Nobody ever considers any of the variables. It's either right or wrong. I just don't see it that way. As long as I don't have my own hidden agenda, I can see the many different variables.


Well hells bells, that is one wacked way of looking at it..... Lets keep the law on the books to protect our right to hug our children.......

We already have rules of conduct with respect to physical affection crossing the line from nurture to sexual abuse and those lines are very clear...the lines between corporal punishment and physical abuse are not very clear....

We tell our children that if the physical affection makes them feel uncomfortable, they need to tell us.....but when we are spanking them, how comfortable do you think they feel?

I think you may be accusing me of having an agenda of my own. I do have an agenda...let's be clear on this. I don't want to physically punish my children and I don't want ANYONE to physically punish my children. I would love to debate the topic with anyone who believes in corporal punishment as the best parenting tool available but quite frankly you cannot debate a topic such as this...it is far too emotional a topic for many and way too personal.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 40
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:24:49 AM

The paddle, wooden spoon, etc. are abuse in my opinion.


It is defined as abuse under the laws of Canada...you are not permitted to use anything but your hand if you strike a child........you can only strike a child between the age of 2 and 12 and only on the torso.....the punishment must be "fleeting"....whatever the hell that means.

But to get back onto the topic....that being the correlation between the use of corporal punishment and IQ......let me ask you adults a question.

When you are personally under stress, are you a good listener? How is your memory?
 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 41
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:25:45 AM
[One does have to wonder though at the correlation between pain and sexual pleasure......but that would be an entirely different thread for a different forum altogether.]

Actually I am looking for the link now.... there was a study that came out about two months ago that shows that the release of cortisol during a spanking between two consenting adults actually allows them to bond. It allows them to set limits and build trust...to know that the other person will not hurt the other.

Hmmm, definately interesting thread. Never would have thought about it had you not mentioned it though. What does this say about children? If that study is effective in adults in building trust, does it do the same between parent and adult? I spank but my child knows that I do not spank out of anger and that I would never spank hard enough to hurt. There is trust just being built in that situation.

Very good topic. OP you are great in getting discussions going. Now, let me find that other study.
 FalconDear
Joined: 9/7/2009
Msg: 42
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:30:53 AM
Stress and memory: Actually, a little stress improves memory. It is continued stress that does not.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stressed-out-memories

[Your first kiss. Your wedding ceremony. The time the car spun out of control and just missed the oncoming truck. Where you were when the earthquake hit, when Kennedy was shot, on 9/11. Each detail of such life-changing events is etched forever in your mind, even though you may not recall the slightest thing about the 24 hours beforehand. Arousing, exciting, momentous occasions, including stressful ones, get filed away very readily. Stress can enhance memory.

We've all had the opposite experience when under stress as well. The first time I met my future wife's family, I was nervous as hell; during a frantically competitive word game after dinner, I blew the lead of the team consisting of my future mother-in-law and me by my utter inability at one critical juncture to remember the word "casserole." Some instances of failed memory revolve around infinitely greater traumas: the combat veteran who went through some unspeakable battle catastrophe, the survivor of childhood sexual abuse--for whom the details are lost in an amnesic fog. Stress can disrupt memory.

For researchers like me who study stress, this dichotomy is quite familiar. Stress enhances some function under one circumstance and disrupts it under another. Recent research shows just how short-term stressors of mild to moderate severity enhance cognition and memory, whereas major or prolonged stressors disrupt them. ]

So my question: In a normal functioning house where the child isnt being abused and takes punishment and moves on...is there long term stress???? Nope. I didn't grow up in a stressful house...only when I knew I did something wrong and was waiting for dad did I stress. But I can sure tell you every thought I had while waiting for him and on more than one occasion, vowed to never do it again.
 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 43
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:33:21 AM
The only hitting in California that is legal is an open hand, avoiding the face, with a mark that does not last for longer than 30 minutes.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 44
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:35:45 AM
which generally is a spank for a child.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 45
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:40:24 AM
Colarado, I do think that any punishment delivered in anger is not as effective as delivering "punishment" in a calm manner. Even with the use of timeouts, it is important (according to the experts) not to angrily toss your child into a timeout but to calmly explain what they did wrong and direct them to the timeout area.

I can readily admit it is at times challenging to not react in anger but I manage it fairly well because I have learned how to recognize my emotions and take the steps necessary to calm myself before I act.

I was raised in a home that was high stress and a lot of extreme punishments. Teaching my sister and I how to manage emotions never was something my parents seemed concerned with....getting us to do as we were told when we told to do it was their #1 priority. My sister and I both had to learn as adults.

We have both broken the cycle and chosen to raise our children differently. She has never spanked her kids but she did the "Vulcan grip" on their shoulders while hissing in their ear to knock it off. All three of her kids are either in/graduated university, they are all well-adjusted, nice, respectful, intelligent young adults. I will need to wait a few years before I can even hope to declare with any degree of certainty that my techniques were successful...so far so good with my 15 year old son but as they say...It ain't over til the fat lady sings and she is not even humming yet. Unfortunately, I cannot make the claim my sister can to never spanking :( but in my defense it was done sparingly.
 Jaxi_2008
Joined: 8/16/2008
Msg: 46
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:45:28 AM
It used to be legal for a man to hit his wife as well, as long as the strap or the stick or what not was no wider than his thumb. Here are some other interesting laws that are apparently *still* on the books in the UK today.

A law passed in 1585, making it illegal for women to “cause a nuisance with abusive or argumentative language”. A woman guilty of scolding had to wear a scold’s bridle, or metal cage, enclosing her head.

In York it is perfectly legal to shoot a Scotsman with a crossbow upon seeing one, except for on Sundays. However any Scotsman caught drunk or with a weapon can still be shot on a Sunday, except with a bow and arrow.

In London it has been illegal for a man to hit his wife after 9pm. Indeed, wife also needs some time for rest.

It is illegal to either shave, work or to mow your lawn on a Sunday.

These were all laws that at "some point" people found valid and ethical. I wonder if spanking or corporal punishment will be one of those laws that people far into the future will look at and think, "People were actually allowed to do that?"
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 47
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:47:05 AM
the fact is.. different things work for different people.. now if it is controlled and not done out of anger..then spanking can be a good tool, the evidence is there..it has occured for thousands of years. There will always be some obnoxious self rightioues person saying "oh but you just beat them because you are angry blah blah blah" but the fact of the matter is, we are all raised differently and in a unique manner.. so.. as the saying goes "Horses for courses"
 mandanj
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 48
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:48:02 AM
I can readily admit it is at times challenging to not react in anger but I manage it fairly well because I have learned how to recognize my emotions and take the steps necessary to calm myself before I act.


Exactly. I grew up in a violent home. Violence was done in anger. It is a cycle. We do better when we know better.

As I said, my child has been spanked with one swat on the bottom, twice, in her eight years. It does not work for me or her. Though, neither does the other forms of physical punishment done after a cooling off period, so I choose different.

I work with 2-5 year olds and of course we are not allowed to hit them. We are forced to use other methods and it works.


different things work for different people


What about the children in the equation? Not all forms of discipline work for each child, even without violence. I work with 2-5 year olds and of course we are not allowed to hit them. We are forced to use other methods and it works.
Some children a time out works, some children not allowing them to play with a favorite toy works.

Those that go straight to hitting, without trying other methods I believe are doing a diservice to their children, but again, that is just my opinion.
 Ffrin
Joined: 2/7/2008
Msg: 49
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:49:45 AM
My children are now in their late twenties. To my everlasting shame and regret, I did smack both of them a few times. As a child I was hit a lot. But I have a brain the size of Marvin the Paranoid Android's, so imagine how clever I would be if my mother and father hadn't whacked me so often.
 Rossjackson1985
Joined: 4/7/2009
Msg: 50
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/27/2009 11:51:34 AM
the whole debate about deminishing IQ is just a cheap ploy.. it doesn't take into account various other things that can effect IQ levels.
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