Sannia
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Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 26 | |
| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 10:28:59 AM | | Personally, I would not trust a Union Representative. Last time I saw one, I wanted to represent myself. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 10:53:34 AM | I am a Janitor in a Teacher's Union--AFT. It does nothing really but take money away.
This month we will have a meeting with teachers as well. We may not get a raise stated in the contract, due to the economy. BUT-- Administration gets theirs as it's "scheduled" they say. We only make a fraction of what they do.
As far as difference in opinion or conflict on the job, I still see favoritism and unfairness. The union won't do anything about it.
IMO they are just there to take money anymore. I was in Local 1 years ago and they did nothing. Wage was just above minimum. We'd get our little 17 cents every year and they raise dues $1. So Where WAS our raise? Union got it all. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 11:22:56 AM | .
IMO they are just there to take money anymore. I was in Local 1 years ago and they did nothing. Wage was just above minimum
Since Reagan Dumped Patco unions have been under attack.....
You belong to one of the few unions left.... You still have a job.........
I bet a contractor could replace you for less over head to the district.
Many would think you are over paid, their are people will to work for less....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:04:54 PM | All I know is that it ruins baseball. It not only makes players greedy and makes team owners their bìtches, but it also prevents non-greedy players from being able to be generous.
For example, the Houston Astros are in terrible shape right now in terms of talent. One of the worst teams in the league. And much of that is due to lack of available funding to spend on players. Ace pitcher Roy Oswalt (one of the highest paid players on the team) offered to renegotiate his contract to accept less money to free up more to spend on other players to help them win. It was an awesome and selfless idea that proved a real commitment to winning until the players' union stepped in and said, "you can't do that." | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 5:46:05 PM | One thing I always thought, if I was a Union Employee, is that I would have a problem; working beside a co-worker, who's incompetent and unproductive, but is entitled to the same wages and benefits that I do. Does this kind of remind you of our Government trying to push equal pay for everyone?
This incompetence along with many other problems (including expenses) associated with Unions, are now becoming undesirable; effect the bottom line.
Today's private businesses with this economy and a highly competitive market can't afford to pay high wages and expensive benefits to Unionized employees. Add to the fact that our Governments (federal and state) want to raise taxes on businesses, making it even worse for businesses to deal with Unions.
Unions are losing ground and will have to compromise with lowering wages and benefits to survive.
I know in my trade, many Union businesses have closed their doors due to the fact that they can no longer afford to stay in business...too expensive to stay Union. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:55:41 PM | .
When there is a surplus of labor the wages will go down....
How do you create a surplus of labor?
Off shore the factories, import cheaper workers either legally or with changes to the Visa standards......
Today in the US we have a surplus of labor.
Unions are nothing but a punching bag, they have no power.... and not much hope of regaining it....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 9:06:59 PM |
I see you are management team. Who wants to be the the cow that died?
Who wants to be the cow that died? What is that supposed to mean? And no I'm not management, management isn't unionized and tend to make just a little more than the workers (but without all the O.T, they have to do it for nothing).
And what are you complaining about meat cutters making $ 12 an hour? That's just above minimum wage. People who sweep the floor where I work start at $18 a hour. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/3/2009 9:17:22 PM | | No no raine, that was meant for the poster above you. I was not complaining about meat cutters making 12 bucks an hour. I do not even recall a referance to it. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 5:07:09 AM | Anyone who thinks that these corporations care about their workers are very naive. They care squat about you.
Those who whine about union workers making too much seem to be ok with a corporation such as nike that set up shop in a third world country, pay the workers pennies a day to make shoes, yet sell them here in excess of $100 a pair.
Why is it great for corporations to post record profits every year, yet the workers are evil for wanting a piece of the action?
We Stand United!
That is the unions real power. We stand shoulder to shoulder with our union brothers and sisters, We are united. We stand together or fall together.
That kind of has a socialist tune to it and I'm certain that is why some are complaining about unions.
I will say, break the unions, you will have no middle class. You will have a new third world country and 99.9% of you and your kids will be exactly the same as slaves. Mark my words.
PROUD CARD CARRYING U.A. MEMBER LOCAL 663! | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 8:50:48 AM | When I was in the laborers union there was definently some workers that were being carried by the union rules. Seems like that was only on huge jobs where they empty the hall out and everyone can go to work, it happens on big mill shutdowns and such, when they have only a short time to complete a big project. Very little now, on smaller jobs, do I see workers and the union pushing things too far, certain trades are much worse than others, but.........
The Union Contractors and Employees that I work around regullarly are kick A**. They do great work, Safely, everybody out there is trying to a good job, because they care. I can look around and be confident that nobody out there is getting the shaft on pay, healthcoverage, healthy work environment......nothin like that. And they all do a great job because of it. Every union contractor in my field is excellent. Theres only some of the nonunion contractors that I can look at and feel the same way. And another thing about the Unions that seems rellivant to point out............They are American Workers. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 9:06:28 AM | They're going to unemployed American workers real soon. Look at GM--average wages were above 70 bucks an hour. Toyota had wages around thirty something an hour. Japan doesn't strike me as a third world nation. And there was a strong vibrant middle class before unions so this idea that we would be a third world nation without them is ridiculous.
Unions are nothing more than a racket protected by their crony politicians in Washington like our Liar in Thief, Obama who protected the unions, abused his power and hundreds of years of bankruptcy law to screw over bondholders. Unions protect lazy employees, reduce jobs, do very little to help employees, often have nefarious ties to the mob and criminal activities, and make those at the top rich and powerful.
The country would be far better off without them. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 9:51:52 AM | .
Look at GM--average wages were above 70 bucks an hour. Toyota had wages around thirty something an hour.
How about a source.... Your numbers are BS.......... Pulled right out of Rush's Butt...
How about a source for your statement about Japan ... Japan has very strong Unions...
I thought all American workers were lazy... that's why everything is built out of country... .
The Corp CEO's know this stuff.... Thats why they have jobs....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 10:20:55 AM | | mine sucks big time!! and the thing that makes me furious is that i have no choice in the matter. you can be a full member paying full dues or a partial member which is what i am. i don't get to vote but who cares?? doesn't matter anyway. it's extortion!! plain and simple. they are powerless. in the past they would negotiate our contracts and we would get a raise EVERY year. well guess what? the last two years - NO RAISE!! i am making the same exact salary while prices are going UP UP and UP!! how do they expect us to survive i wonder? oh but they still take out their damn union dues every paycheck!! last year i believe it amounted to around $300!! now i think i could put that $300 to better use than they do. not sure what we are paying them for now since they are useless. i'm fed up but don't know what to do. i work in an office, not a factory so i'm still wondering why we even need a union in the first place??? oh and we have to pay for parking where i work too which also comes out of every paycheck. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 10:41:36 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^
You blame the Union for wages not keeping up?
You might want to check out Unemployment numbers...
wage and hour cuts many face today... I bet someone would do your job for a few bucks less an hour.....
You personally have no leverage....
This is the Reagan workers paradise.....
A UAW worker starts at $14 an hour.... Average UAW is $28 an Hour...
Toyota pays $27 to $30 an hour at its plant in Kentucky....$20 an hour at a Mississippi plant. I guess people in Miss aren't worth as much.....
$70 an hour is about $160K a year.... with out over time....
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 7:59:45 PM | Union Labor was the middle class,.....
Union labor *created* the middle class. That and the GI Bill. (another government program)
I always thought it was ironic that the only two unions who came out for Reagan got essentially destroyed by Reagan. First was the air traffic controllers and then the Teamsters. The Teamsters definitely had some problems that needed to be addressed and illegal activity is something that should never be tolerated. It does not benefit the members. But still, Reagan destroyed the ATCs and put a big dent in the Teamsters. Wonder how they felt about him after that? | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 8:29:02 PM | | I think the US "thought" that outsourcing manufacturing jobs would bring about new and great "service industry jobs" in the states . How ironic . I call for MS support and get linked to Kumar in India that can barely speak english. Thanks Mr. Gates! | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 10:02:15 PM |
I think the US "thought" that outsourcing manufacturing jobs would bring about new and great "service industry jobs" in the states . How ironic . I call for MS support and get linked to Kumar in India that can barely speak english. Thanks Mr. Gates!
For the most part, it didn't?
For some computer/tech companies, their upper-tier customer service reps are often located in countries with native-English speakers, like Canada. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/4/2009 11:34:18 PM | Edencapwelll , your union dues are $300 a year and you're complaining? The difference in what a union carpenter makes and what I make a week is that $300 including benefits.
It also says you have a masters degree on your profile is that true? What kind of job pays so low for a masters degree? | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/5/2009 3:06:00 AM |
Other than paying all members at a job equally, is there a better way to get ahead ?
Actually, paying all members at a job equally is rarely a good idea in my opinion, unless all of the members at that job are equally qualified, which is very rare to find.
People sould be rewarded based on qualifications and effectiveness at their job. There is no reason why a slacker should ever get the same yearly raise as a hard worker in the same job position. But that is just what happens in a union.
It is the lazy workers who bennefit the most from a union. And that's just not fair to the hard workers. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/18/2009 10:16:34 PM | Union are only as good as the people leading them.
They can be good , ~ they can be bad.
Union power was greatly damaged by Ronnie Ray guns when he fired striking air traffic controllers .
The middle classes have been in a downward tail spin ever since.
I been a member of several ~ not completely by personal choice.
It's mixed bag ~ but if you are in a union shop ~ you need to belong.
Like churches , I consider unions "good" until they prove otherwise.
Unions can and will sell you down river ~ My family has had to employ attorneys on ocassions to to file suit against the teamsters for failing to do their jobs.
It's a big power game ~ unions are only a tool, how they are used means everything to any one member at any given time.
With money or your woman, you should trust no one.
Union should be seen as the collective ~ all these hard workers that suffer for unions yet they enjoy the work enviroment and priviliges the union has created for them, ~ they seems to think it was all their hard work that made it happen ~ in truth it took both, neither could have got there on their own. That aggorance and ego talking.
Dance | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/19/2009 12:21:39 AM |
It isn't the Union "pricing " themselves into obscurity, It's the Lazy over paid US worker.
In China the same job for 1/100 the per hour.....
Meat cutters in the US were expecting $12-15 hr ... the Same job in the same place . $8 hr.....Contracted to an Illegal..... That supports a contract company and the guy doing the work...
You think US$12-15p/hr is overpaid? That's below the poverty line is it not?
If the meat workers were working a 40-hour week, that adds up to US$480-600 before tax.
In China, India and Indonesia the bulk of the population are lucky to get $2.00 a day and exist in the most appalling conditions. There is no unionism, never has been. The workers, many of which are children, are shockingly exploited.
It is the US worker expecting too much pay....
I would suspect the US worker just wants his efforts to be rewarded fairly and not to have to try to exist on the poverty line. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:38:32 AM | well truth is, ~ Many companies and I mean many, would have have you living in a refrigerator carton under a bridge somewhere for they "really" don't care.
There is only some much profit margin to be cut out of an pie and everyone is fighting for their piece of it. It's a dog eat dog situation and always has been. This process of determining fare wages is subjected to many market pressures, some real and some invented.
I can manage to put 28 cents on every dollar is my pocket, from that 28 cents I pay my labor cost. So we are really splitting fine hairs when it come to paying labor.
In truth, I'm having to contend with what is seen as a Market value prices, what something can be "offered" and bought for.
If I am require to compete with people that steal from their employer, work out the trunk of their car, have no licenses, have no insurance and offer no service after the sell, how am I to compete?
The notion the the cream shall rise and that good work speaks for it's self is all bull sh1t. Having a reputation for quality work and fairness does help you but it alone will not save you. For people are just like employer, they are working with narrow margins as well. They will cut your throat for 50 dollars , cutting you out of any deal.
To begrudge a meat cutting for making 12.50 per hour in today's economy is absurd. Just because you can find someone willing to do it for 8.00? ~ This 8.00 dollar man is not paying his taxes, not insured, not contributing to the raising and care of this children, it's left up to society to tend to him and his family needs.
So in a big way ~ we are all paying for your new roof or driveway, we are all paying for cheaper meat.
Unions address these disparities of margins and labor cost , alone with better working conditions. They were intended to offer some standard as to what's humanly acceptable.
Otherwise ~ supply and demand alone would set labor cost. And for a nation that can't seem to control illegal immigration makes for a sad situation.
Many might think they they are somehow not affected by this ~ that somehow they job market is immune and that might well be so. But this is not true, for it affect you whenever you spend. It affects you when you pay taxes. It affects the very economy that you must live and work in.
This notion of high health care cost we are experiencing today ~ is a good example.
The industry can lower their profit margin or employer across the nation can raise the prices and offer higher wages. It's one of the other. ~ as it stands today, with federal programs that are in place. Employees with no major medical are helping pay for people that do. ~ And the people that do have it ~ don't want to see this changed in anyway.
Well ~ I guess not! as long as their are getting want they feel they need and deserve they are happy. ~~ Screw the disparity ~ you're getting personal!
And wages ~ is personal, ~ but I work hard and I got mine and screw you ~ Is what Unions attempt to address.
Dance | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:45:43 PM |
Unions address these disparities of margins and labor cost , alone with better working conditions. They were intended to offer some standard as to what's humanly acceptable.
Exactly. Which is why market forces alone should never determine the value of a person's labour. We are all entitled to human dignity and the economic rationalists who've done so much damage have a lot to answer for. Greed is NOT good and it does NOT work.
Economic rationalism is alive and well in the Third World. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:24:06 AM | I worked at a company that was represented by the UAW for 13 years. The money and benefits are better in union shops, but the work environment is dysfunctional in many ways. The unions thrive on protecting the lazy, play favoritism, argue over any and everything ( such as: pick a piece of paper off the floor and the janitor wants to file a grievance), and generally create a very hostile work environment.
Before working at the union facility I generally made more money than most other people in other jobs I held, it always bothered me to know I was making the same amount of pay as the laziest, most incompetent employee there.
Now I don't work in a union plant and while the money is much less (but wages are depressed everywhere), I enjoy the work environment much, much better. All the extreme lazy and incompetent people get fired and those who come to work and take pride in their job are able to enjoy actually going to work. | |
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| Are unions at work good anymore?
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:11:45 AM |
Corporate heads need to be multi-millionaires, reluctant to share profits and benefits with their employees.
How many union bosses make 6+ figure saleries? Do any of the guys working within the union make anything close to what the union bosses do?
Unions have essentially became worthless. Look at the auto industry. If you need another example, well check out Boeing. I think they will leave the area though before their greedy union workers run them into the ground, they outsource more everyday.
If they would go to a model of fair pay, benifits and good work conditions they would drive less business away. The union bosses just want money and power though. | |
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