That's odd... I thought that the why and how gravity came about were being aggressively studied - the particle accelerators at CERN (particularly the LHC) were built to help determine the hows and whys that make matter behave the way it does.

But if you believe that God made the universe, then it would *have* to be an extra-dimensional/meta-universe 'thing'... right?

You are just arguing apples and pears. We are talking about the whole of science...see post 90.

I, like you, do not chose faith to be cured of cancer, what we do do is use faith that the chemical reactions that will cure the cancer were created in a way (when the universe began) that we can only have faith in.

Science today is the modern day Catholic church, it tells you that gravity on Earth is 9.8m/s/s but don't ask why or how gravity came about. You'll be burnt at the forum stake if you do.

3) Faith that all things are rational and explainable.

Science is quite prepared to believe in something they have no evidence for.

Correct...not sure of the point here though.

This is where you're mistaken - scientists DO NOT 'believe' in these things. They have ideas that, based on what we can observe and measure, SUGGEST that these other universes exist... and are trying to come up with ways to test the accuracy of those ideas.

Your prior message stated that you could not worship an extra dimensional/meta-universe 'thing'... yet in order to have ANY kind of validity, God would *by necessity* have to be such an entity. Hence, you have a rather interesting dilemma to reconcile.

Organized religion discourages discovery.

FALSE!

stop bludgeoning the Church with blatant ignorance. You can't hold the rough times during a transition between new ways of exploring the world against the Church forever, can you?

Stop playing four centuries worth of telephone about religion and science and see the transition for what it was and be part of the solution and not the problem.

Well, how about the church's adherents stop accepting the "status quo" from a church that clearly remains resistant to the change that is demanded from it, including the ability to hold itself accountable to the atrocities that have been and continue to be commited under its nose. Or were you not aware of Residential Schools and continued abuse by its priests? Why doesn't it liquidate the billions in assets it has acquired and direct the money to actual, measurable efforts to improvement in the world, rather than demanding those who can't afford it to continue to pay towards its continued existence in money, blood and heritage?

Now let's talk about organized religion in general and the role it's taking in encouraging ignorance, going so far as to expect religion and it's fairy tales of a magic man waving his wand to create everything to be taught over science. Let's talk about religion's use of confusion and obfuscation for the purpose of an agenda that is clearly against the better interests of society in general but works to their political advantage.

Seriously, when is enough going to be enough?

Walk the halls of the Pontifical Counsel of Science and stop bludgeoning the Church

and whereas thereupon was produced the copy of a writing, in form of a letter professedly written by you to a person formerly your pupil, in which, following the hypothesis of Copernicus, you include several propositions contrary to the true sense and authority of the Holy Scriptures; therefore (this Holy Tribunal being desirous of providing against the disorder and mischief which were thence proceeding and increasing to the detriment of the Holy Faith) by the desire of his Holiness and the Most Emminent Lords, Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the sun, and the motion of the earth, were qualified by the Theological Qualifiers as follows:

The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures.
The proposition that the earth is not the center of the world, nor immovable, but that it moves, and also with a diurnal action, is also absurd, philosophically false, and, theologically considered, at least erroneous in faith.
Therefore . . . , invoking the most holy name of our Lord Jesus Christ and of His Most Glorious Mother Mary, We pronounce this Our final sentence: We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo . . . have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world;

here's the thing. Most religious people will freely admit that their belief is based on faith. I'm sure even you will admit this. But those very same people will come into debate forums and try to back up their beliefs using evidence, reason, and logic. Thats the ironic part. If your belief had evidence, reason, and logic, you wouldnt need faith. The fact that you need faith, is precisely because you have no evidence. Even the pope will admit this. So why do you try to use evidence to back up your faith?? That is where the logical fallacy lies. You can't back up faith with evidence, otherwise by doing so you are denying that it is faith in the first place.

If you would just admit your belief is faith, we would have no argument. Its when you try to change it into something else that it becomes a fallacy. The purist kind.

You.. Are.. You're! Say it with me! You're!!
Your is a sign of ownership.
Your rig. Your fridge. Your dog.
If a phrase makes sense by typing, "You are" without voiding the English language, than chances are, the phrase is meant for you're and not 'your.'

Sorry.. pet peve of mine.