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Posted: 10/19/2009 6:34:58 PM | | Let me guess--she was into pilates and yoga, lived "green," thought Bill Maher was profound, loved to bag on "Shrub," thought no war was ever OK, didn't drive an American car, and generally had all the mental acumen of the average Stegosaurus. | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 12:12:31 PM | LOL a rare moment of agreement Ace, ...
Asking people who actually are at one with the universe, at peace with themselves and knowing the world is better for their existence having to pay for a bunch of slugs who are unable to pay their own way in the end...nightmarish.
Somehow, I am not comforted. I think that one does one's best to make a positive contribution in this world, but to be smugly sure that it worked? Not sure about that.
I guess my idea about those who aren't contributing in the way I'd prefer is to educate them and reason with them. Yours appears to be just to fleece 'em. In what way exactly does that make the world a better place? | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 12:38:42 PM | ACE why would you iumagine a small government, mostly libertarian, self-made, never taken anything from anyone, poster is "out to fleece someone?"
Is there something wrong with your brain? Do you have some sort of head injury, or personal sociopathy that causes you to project this sort of gibberish? Are you in prison or institutionalized in some significant manner that causes you to assume this would be a normative position someone who thinks men do quite well without government keepers? | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 4:08:47 PM |
ACE why would you iumagine a small government, mostly libertarian, self-made, never taken anything from anyone, poster is "out to fleece someone?"
By your affirmative response to my "good riddance" line. You took the bait.
If all who claimed to believe as you do actually did, and actually put it into practice even if it meant less power or less profit to themselves, I would stand with you on every point. I might remonstrate with you a bit here and there on your obnoxious judgmentalism, but I'd live with it.
However, when people use your high ideals as political cover to fleece the rest of us, and you consistently refuse to consider the possibility that your heroes are lying to you and the rest of us, and when you continue to argue against any and all reasonable checks against their perfidy, I wonder what the hell is wrong with you.
Unless you're one of the guys whose feels it's his job in life to provide such cover. | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 4:30:40 PM | Ace you've got some serious, unfixable problems regarding the motivation of conservatives. You may be the purest form of true believer AKA useful idiot as the old Stalinist's used to label.
Your ability to provide yourself even the rudimentary of reality checks..e.g., where is internet acess and broadests , the US? or China, Cuba or Venezuela which probably reflect most accurately that pay of authoritarian Ozero slugs plan? | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 6:13:03 PM | The places that censor the Internet don't have net neutrality. They'd laugh at the idea. That's why I'm a liberal and not a socialist. You really should borrow a dictionary some time and look up the difference.
Or maybe you'd prefer Somalia, a libertarian's dream--no effective government! | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 6:19:51 PM |
You may be the purest form of true believer AKA useful idiot as the old Stalinist's used to label.
Yep. They used to call folks like you running dogs of Capitalism. What do those two groups of idiots have in common? A refusal to consider the possibility that their opinions might be mistaken and a consequent inability to think for themselves.
The day you surprise me is the day I'll know that you're neither a dupe nor a schill. Until then, the jury is out as far as I'm concerned. I have surprised you upon occasion, because you simply cannot grasp how I might both favor the market and favor its appropriate regulation at the same time. But your lack of comprehension is not a fault of mine.
There is an awful lot of value in the perspective of some conservatives. Socialists definitely have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But your willingness to dismiss all criticisms and put down the people who raise them is simply reactionary. There's nothing libertarian about a closed mind. You have your story and you're sticking to it. Whatever floats your boat, man. Good luck with it! | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 7:02:30 PM | I am a proud running dog Capitalist. I embrace all aspects of the label. You should embrace useful idiot as you certainly are. Imaginaing there is some negotiated middle ground between Capitalists on the one hands and Stalinist's and Maoists on the other is a mental disorder.
Try again, I accept with a smile your reactionary label, comrade, my side does not deliberately destroy 100 million people for ideological reasons. | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 7:03:33 PM | 
(no further comment -- except I think I'll have some wine and relax in a warm bath tonight). :-p
National health care = something you pay the price for and with no guarantee [but to the contrary if observing other countries and history] that the gov. will guarantee better care and can accomodate ''''timely'''' care for all. <---hmmm...was that a comment after all...
okay off to my bubble bath...
Enjoy your debate men...:-p
But on the ..OP...Doctors are yummy (some are that is)...but they don't create policy and their special interest groups are running short against the current administration.
It should be about what is in the 'best' interest of the tax payers (those hiring and paying the docs.). The question should be 'what does gov. have to do with private industry in a gov. built upon capitalism -- not communist/socialist values). My family just beat cancer...based on research and guidance not received or offered by the gov.
You want health care -- consider you being at the helm, Captain versus the gov. who is in the business of collecting and allocating taxes over 'caring' about 'individual' cases over publishing statistics. All the statistics in the world nor welfare will not save one life...when it comes down to the absolute truth ****about politics...****
which is ****not medicine.****
*wink* | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 7:19:23 PM | Imaginaing there is some negotiated middle ground between Capitalists on the one hands and Stalinist's and Maoists on the other is a mental disorder.
Haven't you heard, the Commies lost! Nobody wants to live like that. They'd prefer Somalia. Personally, I'd prefer to live among reasonable people who are actually safe enough to behave reasonably and cooperate. And so there we have it, folks, ideological gridlock vs. pragmatism. Really, good luck with your crazy world at war.
Hey conservatives, do y'all really see it that way too? | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 7:29:05 PM | | No I want people like you in North Korea where you can have a knock alongside your head that might have an effect 12 or 16 years of education didn't. California was the richest state in the richest country in the world. Your ideas have turned it into a basket case with a $60B deficiet and a ranking of 47th in education. Your belief system is a cancer and abd carriers of same are to be identified. | |
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Posted: 10/20/2009 11:10:58 PM | Really? I thought it was prop. 13 and our newly found conservative top budget priority: prisons. Combine that with legislative term limits so that the only people willing to represent us are hacks of whatever stripe, and then you tell me what actual good your conservative agenda has accomplished here.
The only reason this state is still afloat at all is because of Stanford and the venture capitalists. Why do you think they draw from the Bay Area and not from Socal or the Central Valley? Open minds are productive and inventive. They _like_ diversity and appreciate pragmatism. People like that can actually hold two opposing viewpoints in mind and draw the best from each. What do you think inventiveness _is?_
Just exactly how many thousands of times have you trotted out your same old lines? When was the last time you actually considered a new thought? And no, rereading Ayn is not entertaining anything new. It's the same old nonsense.
The most damning thing about you and your nasty perspective, the one thing that undercuts your credibility completely, is your propensity to wish ill upon those who disagree with you. I would never wish North Korea on anyone, nor the tender mercies of any totalitarian regime. But you seem to feel that anyone who challenges the hegemony of your precious worldview deserves the fate that you so obviously fear.
No, I wish you every happiness. I just hope you can recognize it when it bites you on the ass. | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 12:49:40 AM | I think it's pretty obvious what's ruined this state--30 to 40 years of dereliction, by several U.S. presidents, of their duty to enforce our immigration laws. There's nothing these people haven't harmed, from our schools to our physical environment to our hospitals to our roads to our sewers. Most of them were scraped off the bottom of the barrel, and a good many are criminals. About 30% of the inmates in federal prison are illegal aliens.
These invaders have been an enormous drain on California, using many times more social services--WIC, free emergency room care for the whole family's sore throats and earaches, free schools for their droves of kids, etc. than they'll ever contribute. They cost us many billions each year. We should secure our southern border, set about deporting them all, and stick to it--even if it takes a decade or more. | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 7:40:04 PM | Coast -- Actually, California is broke.
Ace...
Match brings up viable government statistics about the astronomic funds spent in health care spent on non-residents. Many non-residents come to the U.S. to avoid the pharmacy costs. Ultimately this is money out of yours and my pocket books and a huge part of the increase in medical costs today.
Shall we ignore this fact?
So who really cares about others or its citizens?
Many illegal residents huddle together in unsanitary conditions. Is your door open to these ones? Shall you tell the person struggling to get by to open his doors to these ones and join in on living conditions that are not healthy? If the world or any political party were truly altruistic, then there would be no nation formed. Taking this philosophical concept on a micro level...we would not have families, but we'd all be one happy family...correct.
Yet, it's a fallacy to pretend to care while stealing from one's 'own' neighbor...and that is how governments were formed if being honest. Does the one who is taking from others...care about others? Normally with human nature there has to be an 'intrinsic' benefit. The same is true of governments.
In short, the U.S. is a republic -- not a democracy. It as created by wealthy and educated men with their own interests in mind...not merely what we read on the declaration of Independence.
We do not live in a world (let alone a nation) where there is an equal distribution of 'anything' let alone medical care. The wealthy will always fair better. They do in Canada where they are still able to pay for personal physicians.
National health care will not change this. It will not remove the haves and the have nots -- only individual strive for success changes a person's lot in life.
You and me will pay for National Health Care and still people will not receive 'timely' care. The government are not medical professionals and regulating 'care' in any area takes on 'time' (bureaucratic time) and expenses (you are listening to someone 'you' pay to spend millions of your tax dollars) ...and zero guarantee of 'true' health care needs being met. Have you visited a free clinic (they exist now). The doctors are over worked and underpaid. If excelling in medicine -- they usually leave (for their own intrinsic rewards).
Consider the risks and benefits of a lesser quality of health care and look beyond politics. My Mom would be dead today if I didn't have the choices we do today and she had to wait on Government approval for treatment (which they wouldn't approve due to cost). She survived lung cancer while every 8 seconds someone is dying of the same.
If equality were granted...we would still have inequality as we are all given our own lot in life. Some do nothing with it -- others excel and change their lives. This has been since the beginning of time and will continue to exist regardless of what any politician or government promises.
Children in a candy store: It's not good for you regardless if it is free. If it is produced though...somebody is going to have to pay for it and in the case of this administrations' direction with spending...it will be the next generation (your/our children).
And there will be no biting of tushies (unless done in a loving, gentle manner).  | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 7:55:52 PM | Mermaid we've subsized and enabled a poverty class for four decades. Not only have we encouraged an underclass, we've given them a sense of entitlement and angeered them that the deck was stacked. Now we have more of them than us. We are anywhere between $70-100 trillion in unfunded liabilities, the schools don't work, the institutions are untrustworthy and a bunch of aging pothead 60's pothead hippies are playing viva la revolution with an empty suited charmboy President.
Our educated class has become attorneys, or social workers, or otherwise engaged in overhead related activities when we need engineers and managers to work our way out of this mess. Not only does this overhead class not help, it hinders citing arcane monopoly and union regs. You think China, Russia, India and Brazil have an educated class bent on stopping their productive sector? You think in this world economy our problems involve monopolies? or Unions? | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 8:19:45 PM | | Oh, come on. Why can't we all just serve each other, push papers back and forth, and make nothing? Building bridges and reactors and stuff is so--like yesterday! We can bring in Chinese and Indians to figure out what size beam to use, or similar dumb details. We're too busy having meetings about organization and partnering and mergers, and which feng shui consultant to hire about the layout of our offices. It's for sure lawyers don't accomplish anything! Can't even put gangsters in jail! | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 8:24:53 PM | Well some people HAVE to be lawyers but just think what a great engineer you could have been lol.
But the larger point is a call to action and stop with pretending it's 1960 still and we're the only country not destroyed by WW2. | |
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Posted: 10/21/2009 11:54:46 PM | | Securing our borders isn't the problem. As long as our labor laws have no teeth, and employers can get away with hiring illegal aliens, they'll find a way to get here. There'll be more tunnels, more fraud and more high-tech ways of them getting in here, but they will. The government has turned a blind eye because illegal aliens and the cheap labor they bring have encouraged construction and low food prices. We should probably bite the bullet and pay more for food and construction. | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 10:56:04 AM | free emergency room care for the whole family's sore throats and earaches
This is a HUGE statement!
When you come to the emergency, don't get all pissy because you're not being helped in a short amount of time. Get pissy with the system that allows illegals (and ones on refugee status) to suck out the life of those who need to care for the truly ill. | |
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Posted: 10/27/2009 10:59:19 AM | From what I have seen securing our borders is much more easily done than trying to enforce immigration internally.
Yes there will be tunnels and who knows what else. But it is still much much easier.
Example. CBP catches much more drugs than DEA. It has to do with the fact that CBP watches everything that crosses in the course of trying to enforce illegal immigration. The DEA's focus is within the borders. CBP's seizures ( money and property )exceeds it's budget.
Besides; the destruction of the $$ ought make American labor more competitive. In retrospect I'm not clear what the strong dollar policy was supposed to accomplish besides benefit the banks. | |
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Posted: 10/28/2009 3:33:35 PM | Ronald Reagan on govt health care at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs | |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:10:59 PM | *UPDATE*
Your emergency rooms are full of people on medicare/cal complaining of sniffy noses.
You're also paying for 14 year old girls who are pregnant (and whose boyfriends are in the ER bed with them making out in front of the girl's mother) coming in because they have *gasp* nausea. (*head meet desk*)
Anyone want daily updates, I'm full of them.
There's no solution until we stop paying for the nonsense and start making people (illegal or not) responsible for their own health. | |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:16:07 PM | | No problem. Let's dismantle the unneeded regulation that keeps health care insurance from being openly competitive in the market. Those regulations might have been needed to make markets and keep insurers honest, and some degree of regulation probably is still necessary. However, exemption from antitrust and restrictions from competing across state lines on price certainly aren't. | |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:26:40 PM | | It isn't only the insurers who are dishonest, I'd venture to say that at LEAST 65-75% of the patients are fibbing for opiates or attention. | |
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