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Posted: 11/3/2009 2:28:10 PM | Is govt health care constitutional??? You would think that would be the FIRST question asked instead of the last.
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=56491
Gibbs was asked by a reporter on Monday: “Have White House lawyers looked at this issue (govt health care constitutionality) ? Has this been examined in any way?”
Gibbs responded: “Not that I know of. I don’t think it has gotten to the point where anybody questions the legitimacy of it.”
The reporter followed up: “Well, Orrin Hatch questions the legitimacy of it.” Gibbs quipped, “Well, you should ask him.”
The reporter asked, “Do you not feel there is any concern at all about whether it is constitutional for Congress to impose a mandate?”
“No,” Gibbs said. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 7:13:35 AM | | Well the idiots did it, just hope the Senate has more sense. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:32:32 AM | | Just wait until the Democrat Representatives who voted for this bill start hearing from their constituents about it. And the Democrats in the Senate will take notice. It will be much harder to get this bill through the Senate. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:05:01 AM | "Is govt health care constitutional???"
It will come under the interpretation of the phrase 'provide for the general welfare' which has been held up as a justification for such programs with some disagreeing with this interpretation as shown on this ink: http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0887 | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:06:43 AM | " Just wait until the Democrat Representatives who voted for this bill start hearing from their constituents about it. "
They have been hearing. The pro-health democrats have a very highly organized phoning and in-person petitioning and web based petitioning system in place. That campaign will now move from contacting House Reps to contacting Senators. Those who contribute across state lines will also be pressuring across state lines.
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:22:16 AM |
It will come under the interpretation of the phrase 'provide for the general welfare
Err, the phrase in the Preamble to the Constitution is PROMOTE the general welfare, NOT provide for..... There IS a huge difference..
The framers of the Constitution were not trying to establish a Big Brother government. They were trying to escape from one. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:36:35 AM | Are they really pro-health democrats?
Or government take over democrats?
I believe a lot of democrats have bought into the fear that has been thrown out there that republicans don't want reform and want people to die... All interest groups do a great job hiding their true agenda with scary messages. No matter who they are.
Like Unions wanting to say they are out to help people get equal pay & benefits and to protect those employees. While at the same time making it hard for business to succeed and prosper... killing competition and really the American Dream. Try being a Small Business and compete against that. Even to do a trade show it costs companies thousands, when it should cost hundreds... because of the raping going on by unions... eventually more and more companies can not attend... eventually those putting on the Trade Shows can no longer afford it... and the unions have raped their workers out of work and sent them to the unemployment lines.
Government Run Healthcare will be the same way... Eventually running out any competition and having a monopoly. And those that trust the Government to give you a fair and honest health care plan... Think again. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:43:59 AM | I believe the Republicans would have never done anything to reform the the ailing health care system here in America. They would turn their backs and act as if there was not a problem at all had it not been for Democrats taking the issue head on.
With that siad, I also believe this bill gets shot down in the Senate by the Blue Dogs who showed up after the '06 elections. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:51:46 AM | | You Demo-wits should petition pelosi to pass a bill to get someone to cut and perhaps chew your food for you also. What a pack of useless losers share this country with decent independent, free Americans. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:56:22 AM | ^^^Yeah, tell that to the VA who rely on a lot of government assistance. You seem to want to live in a 17th century monarchy.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. No one is making you stay here. We won't miss you one bit you cry baby, whine bag.   | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 12:30:00 PM |
I believe the Republicans would have never done anything to reform the the ailing health care system here in America.
Skooch
This has been a discussion for ever, The Left wants to have a government run plan that the right doesn't want... because that is not reform, but government take over....
And the Right wants Tort Reform and Crossing State lines for competition... Which the left will never agree with because they are in the pockets of the Lawyers.
The Left will use this debate until they gain that government control they want & The right will fight against that government take over of a 5th of our economy. It isn't about Health Care Reform. It's about one sides idea of Government control... and the other side against it.
Listen to the debate... The interest of the uninsured isn't what is at stake... If one side or the other could agree to insuring everyone without their nugget involved, it would have happened a long time ago. The uninsured are the leverage to push one side or the others agenda.
I just happen to be one that doesn't want bigger government for any reason... and want reform by going after the Tort problem, and making it really competitive by crossing state lines.... And cut pork... which the government will add by the way. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 12:58:43 PM | Having worked in rural health clinics, all I know is I have a few dozen close friends who are physicians who are talking about retiring early if national health care isn't done well. These doctors are already not taking any new Medicare patients since the feds just don't pay enough. And families with MediCal are also finding few doctors who are taking new patients. Once again the feds just don't pay enough.
And where are all the new physicians that will be needed going to come from if we have a government run healthcare? Do people even know how much it costs to run a medical office? Or the high rates of malpractice insurance some specialities have? Even when the physician have never even been sued. Do people know how much it costs to become a physician? Whose going to pay the average 250k debt a med student has when they graduate?
Highest healthcare costs are for many preventable health issues like obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, adult onset diabetes, etc and yet we don't see much being said about personal responsibility, so that people could get lower cost medical insurance. And if people could do comparison shopping to get the best price on coverage, from other states we would have true competition in coverage. And more and more insurance companies are giving better rates if someone has not been hospitalized for five years. Thus they reward people for lifestyle changes.
When it comes to other countries and their national healthcare programs, each has a different plan that fits their need. But look closer and you will see that aside from England and Canada, most of the countries are made up of people of the same ethnic, racial, group. Japan as an example has low low costs, but their people also have a cultural connection in food choices, physical activity. Few are obese, few have drug/alcohol problems, diabetes. Same with Scandinavian countries and even France.
Now look at the USA and how most people value personal freedom, freedom of choice. How many will embrace being told they have to change the way they live? Or if they aren't told, how will we keep costs down, since even progressive experts bemoan the future with more obesity and poor lifestyle choices.
Anytime you allow or demand the government pay for your choices they have the right to tell you what to do. He who pays the bills, makes the rules. Never mind that the government doesnt do anything well. Look at the H1N1 mess. They couldnt even get the vaccine to all the people they promised it to.
~Beth~ | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 1:08:06 PM | I don't understand the law as it applies to the medical field. It seems to me that tort reform is a good idea, but at whose expense. Is this the insurance company's effort to gain protection against lawsuits? If there is a case where they are at fault in causing harm by not supplying benefits to a client, then a lawsuit seems like a reasonable avenue to resolve the issue. Insurance companies profit when they don't provide coverage. There needs to be something to regulate their allocation of benefits. Without lawsuits, they are free to deny coverage all they want.
Tort reform seems necessary to quell all the get rich quick folks out there, but I wouldn't want reform to handicap those who have a legitimate lawsuit. Sounds like a fuzzy area that needs to be ironed out. At any rate, it's over my head. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 2:51:52 PM |
Without lawsuits, they are free to deny coverage all they want.
Not really. Every state regulates insurers through an administrative agency. They're not just free to decide they don't want to pay any claims at all. They're responsible for providing reasonable services in return for the premiums they charge.
The original role of health insurance companies was to insure people against losing their life savings because of an unexpected serious illness. Just as other kinds of insurance companies do, they were able to calculate various risks and charge accordingly. But then states began to respond to pressure from people who wanted health insurers to pay for all sorts of other procedures. That process has gone so far that in some states, insurers must pay for procedures like acupuncture and therapeutic massage.
Once employers started provide health coverage, it became part of their employees' overall compensation--meaning you got it at the expense of your take home pay. And with most people no longer paying their doctor bills out of their own pocket, everyone along the line had an incentive to pad them. With tort lawyers like John Edwards making fortunes off getting juries to fall for highly questionable malpractice claims, malpractice insurers advised doctors and hospitals to go overboard to be on the safe side. And so, they ordered more procedures rather than less.
Why not? The insurance company's paying for it. Of course they weren't--they just increased their premiums accordingly, to stay above water. All of that has inflated the price of medical care. And now, we're told, more government involvement will solve a problem that was created by government in the first place. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 4:57:41 PM | This passage from Justice Frankfurter's dissenting opinion in United States v. Kahrigher, 345 U.S. 22 (1953) is worth thinking about, in view of this bill's use of a tax penalty to coerce private citizens to participate in its scheme of socialized medicine.
"When oblique use is made of the taxing power as to matters which substantively are not within the powers delegated to Congress, the Court cannot shut its eyes to what is obviously, because designedly, an attempt to control conduct which the Constitution left to the responsibility of the States, merely because Congress wrapped the legislation in the verbal cellophane of a revenue measure.
Concededly the constitutional questions presented by such legislation are difficult. On the one hand, courts should scrupulously abstain from hobbling congressional choice of policies, particularly when the vast reach of the taxing power is concerned. On the other hand, to allow what otherwise is excluded from congressional authority to be brought within it by casting legislation in the form of a revenue measure could . . . offer an easy way for the legislative imagination to control any one of the great number of subjects of public interest, jurisdiction of which the States have never parted with . . . ."
Doesn't Congress's constitutional power to tax have to have *some* limit? What's to prevent tax revenue from being used to justify Congress in controlling almost anything it otherwise has no constitutional authority to control? Why couldn't Congress, for example, impose a tax--say 10%--on each new single-family house built anywhere in the U.S., in order to protect the environment by discouraging "urban sprawl?" So what if zoning's strictly a matter of state and local law? You'll live where and how your government knows is best for all of us, shut up, and like it. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 8:28:05 PM | *Update*
Your emergency room is full of sniffy nosed foreign nationals..................who don't have insurance.
Who is paying THEIR bills huh?
Gotta love the ignorance. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 8:39:52 PM | Well, I don't think we should sweat it all that much. I mean, if it passes, its just showtime, you know what I mean? Its like we are being trained to obey the government not for the sake of preventing crime and a safe place where we can live, but for the sake of someone's profit margins, and let me tell you, that's where the buck stops. Local governments must find their own way out of funding medical services for the underserved--maybe parking ticket proceeds are handy for closing the gaps? This is a high price to pay for Lady Liberty's welcoming arms. I won't stand for it. If this goes down, I'll leave the country--or I'll stay and fight--but I'm not going to be forced to do anything by anyone's government outside of securing a passport. Taxes are quite enough of a burden. I will fight, and I know I'm not the only one. If they think they will get away with this DC will be quite surprised when we all revolt. I suppose then that "national security" measures will keep us from revolting too much, eh? Well to this I say give me liberty or give me death. I will die a free woman.
Skoo, if what's happening is over your head, then can you have a solid opinion? Man, let me sum this up for you; we are screwed if this happens. The VA is a benefit for those who enlist to protect this country. I would much rather die a natural death for lack of health services than to be forced to pay. Argh. This is what happens when materialism means more than freedom and liberty. Its sickening!
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Posted: 11/8/2009 8:50:37 PM | | ^^^^^Something tells me you may not have to pack your things quite yet. I read yesterday that one of the pages in the Senate, when he heard the President say he was confident he'd be signing a health care bill by the end of the year, responded this way: "Yeah, right--and I want a pony for Christmas." | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 8:56:09 PM | Well, that's good. What the heck is up with Obama's confidence? Mastering the Art of Persuasion? What about what the freaking people want? I can't believe him. I am saddened because I trusted him to do what we wanted, not what he wanted. I feel like he is trying to run over my will without due process. [Note to Obama: Let us decide what we want, be a leader and listen Obama!] Anyway, I was comforted when I read this in a yahoo news story on the matter: "The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said dismissively." I hope, I hope, I hope. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:31:50 PM | | If that bill dies in the Senate, it may be a fatal blow for Obama, too. He made the mistake, I think, of investing too much of his prestige in this issue. Looking at the seats his party may lose in Congress next fall, I think he may be cooked already. We may see him just plod through his last two years on his way out. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:42:18 PM |
We may see him just plod through his last two years on his way out.
I hope and pray you are right.... | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:55:13 PM | *Update*
Your emergency room is full of sniffy nosed foreign nationals..................who don't have insurance.
Who is paying THEIR bills huh?
Gotta love the ignorance. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:57:46 PM | There is nothing Obumbler is doing that he didn't say he was going to do. Were you not listening? Do you not understand a man stands upon the shoulders of those he is associates with? Studies? Do you not realize the impact on a child of not knowing his father, and the part he knew was abusive/ Do you not understand the impact of having a whacko wingnut mother like he had? The person experiencing these things will grow to become exactly what he is, a brittle, inauthentic person, lacking judgment, understanding of the things that made for American exceptionalism, in fact hating those things?
I'm more surprised at those surprised than I am at Obama, he told me everything I needed to know. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 10:30:43 PM |
I'm more surprised at those surprised than I am at Obama, he told me everything I needed to know.
I'm with you on that. A lot of people saw only what they wanted to see--nothing new about that, unfortunately. And a lot of them only knew what they saw in the heavily biased mainstream news media. This man's done all sorts of things they've completely covered up (e.g. releasing senior Iranian terrorists responsible for killing hundred of our servicemen in Iraq) that are far worse than things they blew up into scandals during the last administration. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:47:13 PM | WHA? How did my post get in there twice.
I'm hoping that the Senate completely blasts the prez out of the water. Unfortunately most of the libs won't get the message.
It will be some Republican's fault........in a perfect world..... | |
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