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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:43:06 PM | It's not just N.Y. where health care workers are balking at mandatory shots.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html
Up to half of family doctors do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.
GPs will be first in the line for the jabs when they become available but many will decline, even though they will be offering the vaccine to their patients.
More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.
Last night Government experts criticised GPs who decide not to have the jab, saying they will put vulnerable patients needlessly at risk.
A week ago, a poll of nurses showed that a third would turn down the opportunity
Are these doctors and nurses are "luddites".
Personally, I think all the health care professionals who object to recieving unwanted medical procedures should organise and walk off the job. They number about one-third of the industry.
They would get their way soon enough. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:46:09 PM |
Personally, I think all the health care professionals who object to recieving unwanted medical procedures should organise and walk off the job. They number about one-third of the industry.
They would get their way soon enough. Actually, they would have their licencing revoked for taking illegal action and walking off the job... that would lead to their termination. So yes, as they are no longer employed, they would no longer be subjected to the requirements of the job.
Excellent idea...  | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:49:49 PM | Yes,
then we would see how effectively the system runs without one-third of the employees.
They would be asked back in a New York minute. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:47:20 PM | "Yes,
then we would see how effectively the system runs without one-third of the employees.
They would be asked back in a New York minute. "
I remember a lot of Air Traffic Controllers using that same logic to go on strike back in the 80's. They were sure surprised when it backfored on them and they lost those jobs. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 5:03:10 PM | " Sir, if you believe that injection of N1H1 flu shot is as simple
as getting a PPD ( we get them twice a year) then I cannot
even hold a disscussion with you on such a level. "
It was a comparison pointing out that it is simply a matter of having to do some things because you are a health care worker; you know, one of the primary high risk groups listed in MMWR for testing for TB "health-care workers who serve high-risk clients;"
You are correct though that a discussion between you and I on this topic is probably pointless due to the fact that my PHD in Public Health makes me see the issue from a community health perspective that you obviously don't feel any obligation to protect. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:22:53 PM |
Actually, they would have their licencing revoked for taking illegal action and walking off the job... that would lead to their termination. So yes, as they are no longer employed, they would no longer be subjected to the requirements of the job.
^^^^^^ Bullshit! The only way the State can revoke your medical license
is if you sign in and take report, then walk away...it's called abandonment. However, you can refuse to sign in and not take report for many reasons, including unsafe staffing ratios, you feel ill or many other reasons. As long as you don't sign in, and
take report, you are legally covered and protected from abandonment!
You are correct though that a discussion between you and I on this topic is probably pointless due to the fact that my PHD in Public Health makes me see the issue from a community health perspective that you obviously don't feel any obligation to protect.
I'm not going to " thump my chest and quote my credentials" however, you
Sir, are way out of your league in personal credentials and bedside knowledge
in comparison. This very thread is an obligation to warn people to make an
EDUCATED decision before you let someone jab you with something many
of us who practice medicine "bedside" feel, that may do more harm than good.
I am not saying ALL vaccines are bad, I'm saying I feel the SWINE FLU
is one that Thousand of Healthcare workers will agree with me, is something
I would not reccomend to any of my patients.
my 20 cents worth. I have to agree with the OP, no one should be forced to take a substance into their body or loose their job. But, why would you want to work for an entity that requires that of you in the first place? Fear mongers all of them!
This has never happened in my 20 plus years as a Healthcare worker.
And...I expect the current decision that the Supreme Court Judge made
on Oct 13TH...to Halt the Mandate..to be upheld on OCT 30TH.
Invasive procedure?... its a bloody pin prick.
It's more than 2ccs full of one of the two most toxic substance know to
mankind. MERCURY. Though you may think it is funny, however, watching someone
suffer, is really not funny.
If you choose to not get the shot, then don't. But to continue arguing here about it is kind of like the little girl who needs attention for the slightest owie. Pick up your panties, quit your crying and continue your selfish, self-deluding life in silence. Why did you become a nurse anyway? Was it the pretty skirt?
Bald, Broke guy, this is a discussion topic. No one has MANDATED you to post here.
So if you continue to show your ignorance by name calling, please join some
other thread.
Up to half of family doctors do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.
GPs will be first in the line for the jabs when they become available but many will decline, even though they will be offering the vaccine to their patients.
More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.
@clockwork lime... I refuse to offer the Swine Flu shot to anyone I take care
of. It's not me that some of these seemingly angery people should be directing
insults at. They should be directed at people like Dr. Richard Baines, the Director
of the NYSDOH, who publicly stated "He will not be getting the Very Swine Flu
shot that he Mandated the Healthworkers to get, along with the MD'S who do
recommend this to their patients, but won't let their family take the very same
Shot!
You are contagious 24 hours before you feel sick with influenza. They are doing the right thing by requiring all healthcare workers to get immunized. You don't like it, as many here have said, quit.
Interesting Fact you have brought up. Now... this new "N1H1 Nasal Mist"
involves an actual LIVE VIRUS. So after taking that, what would your suggestions
be for working with patients while you have just injested a LIVE VIRUS?
I'm sure your aware that anyone taking that will be contagious for more than
24 hours. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:00:59 PM | "I'm not going to " thump my chest and quote my credentials" however, you
Sir, are way out of your league in personal credentials and bedside knowledge
in comparison. This very thread is an obligation to warn people to make an
EDUCATED decision before you let someone jab you with something many
of us who practice medicine "bedside" feel, that may do more harm than good.
I am not saying ALL vaccines are bad, I'm saying I feel the SWINE FLU
is one that Thousand of Healthcare workers will agree with me, is something
I would not reccomend to any of my patients."
You are right, I am obviously WAY out of my league in personal credentials as compared to a health care worker who is trying to scare the public in order to justify the fact that he doesn't want to take a vaccine that he has been ordered to take to protect the public. Just a tip though before I write this discussion off for good; I would tend to wonder what type of credentials a person with a PHD in Public Health living and working in Georgia citing the MMWR may or may not possess before I write them off in my arrogance.
As I said, and as anyone who has taken some graduate level courses in health care as you seem to be implying you have should know, there is a totally different viewpoint at how public health and the medical community view things when it comes to these things. Public health looks at the health of the community versus the needs of an individual and the medical community worries more about the health and well being of the individual patient. You don't really seem to do either, you are just worried about yourself which makes me wonder why you are in the health care field. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:11:22 PM | Two words, Templar...Universal Precautions.
The vaccine is a social and governmental response to fear and an anticipation of a pandemic, not an actual reality.
Divagreen, Stormwolf, and several others already outlined this for you, earlier in this thread.
Read up. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:41:56 PM | The vaccine is a social and governmental response to fear and an anticipation of a pandemic, not an actual reality.
Yes... and this kind of over-the-top, uneducated hypobole is JUST the way to do it...
This isn't ignorant fear-mongering in the least...
... Nope... not at all...
It's more than 2ccs full of one of the two most toxic substance know to
mankind. MERCURY. Though you may think it is funny, however, watching someone
suffer, is really not funny.
NO competent and knowledgable PRACTIONER OF MEDICINE...
many of us who practice medicine "bedside"
would ever make such an irresponsible, exaggerated to the point of falsehood claim...
... the OP's entire argument has been based on underlying assumptions that are a load of conspiratorial b.s. based on internet "research"...
If the OP didn't give it away for you then the following should have...
msg 4
http://www.jeffreywarber.com/hc%20pages/fluscam2.html#anchor3
msg 17
Coming from a person who works for a Hospital's Admin, I can understand
you position.
msg 43
Effectiveness of Flu Shots Wildly Overestimated
October 2005
msg 56
GREED and plenty of underhanded payoffs has to brought up as a possibility!
... ad infinitum...
... and not a rigorous, scientific source among them...
Oh... and I can't pass up quoting my favourite of all...
msg 204
Source Please? Is it Baxter??????
Where he implies I am shilling for Baxter International...
The only thing that has been "outlined" is the boundries of a delusion. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 9:49:09 PM |
The only thing that has been "outlined" is the boundries of a delusion.
Could this be from your "Google" list???????????? Naw!
Selective reporting” about the H1N1 virus and vaccine make it sound like getting a vaccination for the “pandemic flu” is a no-brainer. Thinking men and women should know the under-reported scientific conclusions and plain vanilla government statistics concerning this year’s “Panic-Demic” before making this seemingly simple but potentially life-threatening decision.
To that end I present these “inconvenient truths” (fully referenced) for your consideration. Please note that it is extremely politically incorrect to question the value of the flu vaccine.
Seven Inconvenient Truths About the 2009 H1N1 Flu Pandemic
1.) What is a “Phase Six” Pandemic? (Probably NOT what You Think)
Contrary to popular thought (and most dictionaries), “pandemic” does not mean “large numbers” in WHO / CDC language. According to the World Health Organization’s (WHO) Pandemic Phase Descriptions, “pandemic” refers to distribution, not numbers or severity. Here is the WHO criteria for pandemics:
A “Phase 4″ pandemic means only that a virus is transmissible between humans.
A “Phase 5″ pandemic means only that one viral disease has been seen in two countries.
A Phase 6 pandemic means only that one viral disease has been seen in three or more countries.
Again, the term “pandemic” does NOT refer to numbers of people affected or severity of the disease.
For perspective, The WHO announced as of 20 September 2009 that there have been 3917 total deaths worldwide from H1N1, on par with world-wide mortality from any seasonal or other flu for this time of year. Malaria kills an average of 3,000 people every day in southeast Asia.
2.) Is The H1N1 Flu Really a Danger to the U.S.?
Of less than 4,000 flu-related deaths world-wide, only 211 have occurred in the US as of August 2009. This represents a death total lower than from seasonal flu for years 2005 through 2008 in the U.S.
Adding H1N1 and seasonal flu together, flu-related deaths are still lower this year compared to previous “non-pandemic” years.
Not only is the total flu rate lower this year in the U.S., but the H1N1 flu has been much milder than predicted here and abroad.
According to the WHO, most H1N1 infections are mild, occurring in numbers comparable to seasonal flues, with fast recovery and mostly without need for medical care. Mortality rates so far have been only a fraction of the number of those reported each year from seasonal flu. WHO also acknowledges that “Large outbreaks of disease have not yet been reported in many countries.
Harvard researcher Mark Lipsitch, PhD, explained at an Institute of Medicine meeting that on a 1 to 5 scale — with 5 being a 1918-like pandemic — this swine flu pandemic is a 1. Deputy Director of the CDC’s flu division, Daniel Jernigan, MD, concurs. “We are likely to have numbers that look very similar to what Dr. Lipsitch had,” Jernigan said.
3.) Why H1N1-related deaths are actually smaller than reported in the U.S.
As of August 2009, ALL flu-associated deaths in the U.S. are being reported together. H1N1, seasonal flu and “influenza-like illness” (ILI) are added together to give the “flu mortality rate.” Reported illness and death totals, now include “influenza-like illness” (ILI) that in some cases may not be any form of flu at all.
Other reports concede that a portion of reported H1N1 deaths have actually been caused by pneumonia, not the H1N1 virus itself.
Because the new reporting system tallies deaths from all types of flu, the reported numbers of total flu deaths are not all attributable to H1N1. This means the true H1N1 mortality rate is only a portion of the total reported. Remember that deaths from all types of flu added together are lower in the U.S. this year than from the four previous “non pandemic” years before.
3.) Flu vaccines provide little or no protection from the flu.
Vaccination is claimed to prevent the spread of influenza, protect individuals from acquiring the disease, and do so to a high degree of efficacy. Unfortunately, the majority of scientific studies do not support these claims. In fact, meta analyses (”master studies”) that look at large numbers of scientific studies and their outcomes, show the opposite. Influenza vaccine is minimally or not at all effective for most age groups. Here is how the numbers break down.
In children under two:
In children under the age of two, influenza vaccines are no more effective than placebo.
One meta analysis evaluating fifty-one published studies with 294,159 observations found “no efficacy” in children under the age of two. The authors conclude that “It was surprising to find only one study of inactivated vaccine in children under two years, given current recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months old in the USA and Canada.”
Simply put, the authors question why the U.S. is targeting children under the age of two for vaccination when the studies show the vaccine to be ineffective in this age group.
In children over two:
The same meta analysis found influenza vaccines effective 33% of the time in children over the age of two. Followed to it’s logical conclusion, this means the flu vaccines are ineffective 67% of the time in children over the age of two.
Another study found influenza vaccine ineffective up to age 5.
In healthy adults:
A meta analysis evaluating 25 studies conducted on 59,566 adults age 14-40 found a mere 6% decrease of clinical influenza in those vaccinated. The conclusion: “Universal immunization of healthy adults is not supported by the results of this review.”
The recent update to this study, pooling 38 published studies encompassing 66,248 healthy individuals aged 16 to 65 years, found that “serological flu” (lab numbers) were reduced but actual cases of flu were not reduced. This meta analysis concluded that improvements in overall flu rates in those vaccinated “was extremely modest.”
In seniors:
Seniors over age 70 account for 75% of all flu-related deaths. Since 1980, the vaccination rate in seniors has increased from 15% to 65% but the death rate from flu has not declined. The authors conclude that “the evidence is insufficient to indicate the magnitude of a mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive from the vaccination program.”
Contrary to popular belief, studies have found that secondary pneumonia in seniors is not decreased by flu vaccination, and that reduction of mortality through influenza vaccination has been greatly overestimated in this age group.
5.) “Fast track” approval of flu vaccines, especially H1N1, leaves safety questions unanswered.
“Fast track” approval means that influenza vaccines do not have to go through the normal regulatory procedures. The H1N1 vaccine approval was especially fast because of the “pandemic” designation. One of the approved 4 vaccines was approved after testing in only 221 people for 21 days. Another was approved after testing on 175 adults for 21 days.
The World Health Organization (WHO) admits that people who get vaccinations will be the “field testers” of their safety. From the WHO website:
“Time constraints mean that clinical data at the time when pandemic vaccines are first administered will inevitably be limited. Further testing of safety and effectiveness will need to take place after administration of the vaccine has begun.
… On the positive side, mass vaccination campaigns can generate significant safety data within a few weeks.
In other words, we won’t know the safety of these vaccines until we vaccinate millions of people (45 million is the U.S. “target” for October)
the side effects experienced by those vaccinated will be the “safety data.”
The U.S. Government conferred immunity from prosecution to drug manufacturers of the H1N1 vaccine in July 2009.
6.) Vaccines May Be More Dangerous than the Flu Itself.
In 1976, 200 soldiers at Fort Dix were stricken with the flu, with one reported death. A pandemic was declared and nearly 40 million people in the U.S. received the 1976/H1N1 vaccine before the campaign was stopped due to an increase in Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralytic autoimmune disease.
More than 500 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome were reported, 25 of which resulted in death. This “pandemic that wasn’t” never spread beyond Fort Dix.
In a recent statement by the The American Academy of Neurology, experts said they don’t expect the 2009 H1N1 vaccine to increase risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome or other autoimmune disease but they acknowledged that this is a concern with any pandemic vaccine.
Mild short-term reactions to the vaccine can include soreness, redness, or swelling at vaccination site, low grade fever, runny nose, headache, chills, tiredness/weakness and body aches and pains. These symptoms are very much like the flu itself.
Life-threatening allergic reactions (anaphylaxis) and Guillain-Barré syndrome (a paralytic autoimmune disease) can also occur.
These short-term side effects of influenza vaccination are easier to observe because of their close proximity to vaccination, beginning within minutes to several weeks. Long-term and/or cumulative effects of vaccinations are more difficult to monitor, and questions remain about the long-term safety of vaccines.
For example, the incidence of Alzheimer’s disease in adults and autism in children has skyrocketed in the last several decades. These rates are continued to increase.
The cause of these increases is not known. Some camps maintain that these neurological disease escalations may be caused by vaccinations, especially since many vaccines still contain mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde and other neurotoxic compounds.
The US government, CDC, FDA, and drug manufacturers claim there is no correlation between vaccines and these diseases, although many question the quality of evidence used to draw this conclusion.
7.) “Herd Immunity” Remains Speculative
“Herd immunity” (community immunity) is the belief that if a portion of society gets vaccinated, weaker members of “the herd” who do not respond satisfactorily to the vaccine (children under two and seniors over 65) will be protected from the flu because those around them have been vaccinated. Much evidence contradicts the concept of “herd immunity.”
If healthcare workers get vaccinated, they purportedly decrease the risk of influenza in their high-risk patient, hence the “heavy push” that borders on mandate for health care workers to receive the vaccine. One large meta analysis found “no high quality evidence that vaccinating healthcare workers reduces the incidence of influenza or its complications in the elderly in institutions.”
Conclusions
Here are the points I see from these studies and statistics:
The safety and effectiveness of H1N1 vaccines has not been proven.
The transmissibility of H1N1 flu is small and the severity mild compared to seasonal flu.
My risk of getting the H1N1 flu is small; my risk of dying from this flu is quite small and no greater than for any seasonal flu.
Flu vaccines confer little if any protection from influenza viruses in my age group.
There is much conflicting “proof” that by getting a vaccination, I help make others around me safer through “herd immunity.”
There are known short-term and possibly unknown long-term side effects from vaccines.
All things considered, I’m going to pass on the H1N1 flu vaccine. I believe there are far safer, better-proven methods to increase my resistance to H1N1 and make sure I have a mild case of it (as most cases are) if I do contract the flu.
@ mungojoe,
The above can be referenced by the very same list you provided.
Thanks for helping with
the boundries of a delusion.
No beef with you..Just veggies!
Peace & Blessings | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:32:23 PM | Could this be from your "Google" list???????????? Naw!
Really? And which "Google" list are you talking about?
And which specific entry in that list would it be?
Because to me... It looks like some "blog" off a "quack job" sight looking to make some money...
"Seven Inconvenient Truths About the 2009 H1N1 Flu Pandemic
by Dr. Dana Myatt
copyright Dr. Myatts Wellness Club"
http://www.drmyattswellnessclub.com/H1N1VaccinePaper.htm
@ mungojoe, The above can be referenced by the very same list you provided. Thanks for helping with the boundries of a delusion.
Now which one of that "Google" list leads to a peer-reviewed research article or review published by them but copyrighted by the "Wellness Club"... exactly?
Someone might think you are just "making sh*t up" now because you don't have a leg to stand on...
... And you really expect us to take ...
many of us who practice medicine "bedside"
... seriously now? | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:15:04 AM | That articles quotes the WHO & CDC stats and memebers affiliated with them.
Why are these Alternative medicine people "quacks?"
These "quacks"have found natural suppliments like Co-Q-10 and
AHCC that are being used today to saves lives in places like Sloan Kettering
and MGH and other Major Hospitals. I have personally seen High Cholesterol
levels reduced much more effective with Reservatrol and Grape seed extract
then with Stain drugs like Lipitor, and these suppliments do no liver damage
like lipitor does. Yes, there are "quacks" out there, however there are many
good people who practice both Alternative and Mainstream medicine.
However, if every alternative MD is a Quack to you, then we've wall that
neither will listen to. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 7:35:43 AM | | Storm - You realize that H1N1 isn't that lethal UNLESS you have another problem right? If you have Asthma, it's pretty lethal. If you have Pneumonia, it's lethal. You're in a hospital filled with people who are sick and in need of treatment. If you show up with H1N1 one day without knowing that you have it and pass it on to your patients, you are directly responsible if they die. Do you want to be directly responsible for a bunch of patients deaths simply because you were too ignorant to get the flu shot? It saves lives especially if you are visiting a hospital of which, has many sick patients within it. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:33:41 AM |
Interesting Fact you have brought up. Now... this new "N1H1 Nasal Mist"
involves an actual LIVE VIRUS. So after taking that, what would your suggestions
be for working with patients while you have just injested a LIVE VIRUS?
I'm sure your aware that anyone taking that will be contagious for more than
24 hours.
You are right. And that is why most medical facilities are waiting for the H1N1 injection rather than the mist for healthcare workers. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 12:17:19 PM | That articles quotes the WHO & CDC stats and memebers affiliated with them.
And that makes this bit of obfuscation and b.s. true... in what way?
Could this be from your "Google" list???????????? Naw!
It's plain and simple... you indicated that this article came from one of the sources listed...
... In fact, it DID NOT... and your attempt to lead others to believe it did is dishonest and deceitful...
... Do all "practioners of medicine "bedside"" in your area lie to convince others of thier point?...
... Does such behaviour hold to the letter and spirit of the standards of medical ethics in your area (or anywhere, really)?...
... I think not...
However, if every alternative MD is a Quack to you
I'm sure you believe so... and I'm sure you believe that mischaracterizing stats, lieing about claims and the egregious violations of medical ethics that these lies constitute are in no way indicative of "quackery" as well...
That there are many plants and organisms with as yet unresolved medical benefits is irrelevant to your case... we all know that the vast majority of medicines in current use were derived from just such sources, penicillin is just one example well known to just about everyone...
... The fact is that your entire argument is based on b.s. conspiracy nonsense, is unsupportable within the context of the weight of evidence contrary to your claims and as such constitutes "quackery" and is wholly unethical and immoral for it's deception and deceitfulness.
It is clear that your "understanding" is anything but understanding, that you are completely unable to evaluate or comprehend medical science with honesty and integrity and that medical ethics is a topic completely foreign to you.
In short, "quackery", plain and simple. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 12:25:21 PM |
Yes... and this kind of over-the-top, uneducated hypobole is JUST the way to do it...
Oh, puh-lease...tell me where I exaggerated:
The vaccine is a social and governmental response to fear and an anticipation of a pandemic
It is a social and governmental response to fear and an anticipation of a pandemic...otherwise, it would not be legislated...
This isn't ignorant fear-mongering in the least...
No, it is not...
Two words: Universal Precautions...which is the most pertinent issue...but then the hospitals would be forced, to a certain accountability for negligence...oh, dear...
Which has nothing to do with the vaccine...
A required injection, is against fundamental constitutional rights. There is no way around that. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 12:39:54 PM | Oh, puh-lease...tell me where I exaggerated:
Oh, puh-lease...
Read the post again... the WHOLE post... maybe this time you will understand what I was referring to (hint: you lauded the OP for trying to "get across" the line of yours I quoted).
This isn't ignorant fear-mongering in the least... No, it is not... Two words: Universal Precautions...which is the most pertinent issue...but then the hospitals would be forced, to a certain accountability for negligence...oh, dear... Which has nothing to do with the vaccine... A required injection, is against fundamental constitutional rights. There is no way around that.
One more time...
Read the post again... the WHOLE post... maybe this time you will understand what I was referring to (hint: you lauded the OP for trying to "get across" the line of yours I quoted). | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 12:46:42 PM | Why are these Alternative medicine people "quacks?" I certainly wouldn't refer to every promotor of altrernative medicine as a "quack".
The best comment I ever heard about alternative healing methods, which came from a doctor, was: Alternative medicine's should not be used as a replacement for proven traditional medicines, but rather, they should be viewed as something that could compliment traditional medicine.
I believe that most of the promotors of alternative healing methods would likely agree with that comment.
In my opinion, the "quacks" would be the people who are attempting to completely ignore traditional medicine, in favor of unproven and untested alternative medicines. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 2:53:47 PM |
If you recieve a vaccination and then begin to feel as if you have actually "caught" the virus from the vaccine then that usually means both the vaccine and your immune system are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
Let's see. I was NOT sick...i got the vaccination, now i AM sick. What a great deal !!! Sign me up !! | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:14:48 PM |
If you recieve a vaccination and then begin to feel as if you have actually "caught" the virus from the vaccine then that usually means both the vaccine and your immune system are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to do. Let's see. I was NOT sick...i got the vaccination, now i AM sick. What a great deal !!! Sign me up !!
You are just showing either your ignorance or your deliberate unwllingness to understand what you read.
You are NOT sick because you DO NOT have an infection/disease/illness/sickness/etc...
...What you so disingenuously CHOOSE to call "sick" is the normal functioning of your body...
... but it would be a nice scam if you could get away with it; "Sorry boss, I can't come in today, my body is functioning normally so I'm calling in "sick"". | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:38:54 PM |
You are just showing either your ignorance or your deliberate unwllingness to understand what you read.
You are NOT sick because you DO NOT have an infection/disease/illness/sickness/etc...
If my doctor spewed such effluvium at me i'd whack him upside the head with his PDR. | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:14:42 PM | You are NOT sick because you DO NOT have an infection/disease/illness/sickness/etc... If my doctor spewed such effluvium at me i'd whack him upside the head with his PDR.
What would you have your doctor do?...
...Unnecessarily prescribe antibiotics, anti-virals or other treatment for something which requires no treatment because it isn't a disease/infection/etc.?... Tell you that you have a disease/infection/etc. which you do not have?... Tell you that it is abnormal?
Or would you prefer he tell you that there is nothing medically wrong with you, that what you are experiencing is your body generating a defense against possible future infection?
What you are saying is the same as saying labour pains are a sign that a woman preparing to deliver is sick. It may not be pleasant but there is nothing abnormal or unusual about it. It is not a sign of being sick.
I bet you have a hard time keeping a doctor with that attitude (though I imagine there are some who would tolerate such ignorant abuse if the price is right). | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:29:13 PM |
Read the post again... the WHOLE post... maybe this time you will understand what I was referring to
I did...the original post, and yours in which I was responding to...unless, you are referring to another post, in which I would need you to be more specific...
(hint: you lauded the OP for trying to "get across" the line of yours I quoted)
What does "get across" mean? Is that a euphemism?
I have no idea what you meant by that. I understand what lauded means...I just don't understand the rest of it...(your sentence). | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:35:47 PM | | I cant beleive you milked this thing for 10 pages...Freaking incredible! | |
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| My body,My choice!
Posted: 10/21/2009 5:09:56 PM |
(hint: you lauded the OP for trying to "get across" the line of yours I quoted)
What does "get across" mean? Is that a euphemism?
I have no idea what you meant by that. I understand what lauded means...I just don't understand the rest of it...(your sentence).
"get across" = "make known", "lead (someone) to understand", "illustrate", "outline"... as in "The point I was trying to get across was..., but they were incapable of understanding"
You made a statement in post 237 that the point the OP was trying to "get across" to others was...
The vaccine is a social and governmental response to fear and an anticipation of a pandemic, not an actual reality.
To wit...
...Stormwolf, and several others already outlined this for you, earlier in this thread.
And I pointed out that all of the ridiculous conspiracy crap was not a very effective way to make (as in, "get across", "make known", "illustrate", "outline") that point... if, in fact, that actually was the ultimate point rather than simply trying to foist some rdiculous conspiracy crap off on others.
The balance of probabilities (given the OP's woeful lack of knowledge and scientific rigour) lead to the conclusion that the debatable nature of the recent pandemic predictions was merely a point that he ACCIDENTLY got right in the midst of all that other "evil vaccine conspiracy"nonsense.
The sum total of the OP's posts indicate that the question of whether a pandemic is, in fact, looming is merely incidental to his unscientific, emotional, illogical, conspiratorial delusions about vaccinations and mainstream medicine in general. | |
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