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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/8/2009 9:50:21 PM | My point is, teachers are not allowed to discipline kids today, and the kids know it, therefore....no respect for authority. I am not condoning "hitting" kids at all.
The fact is if the think there is a chance that they'll get there a$$ beat, they won't tend to misbehave. The same thing you just described, in different words. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/8/2009 10:18:54 PM | Teachers are allowed to discipline students--they report the student to the principal in charge of discipline, and they follow the steps toward resolving the issue, if the problem can't be resolved between student and teacher.
The juvenile mentality only truly understands one thing: if you don't do as you're told, you get your a$$ blistered with a paddle. When you take away the physical consequences for misbehaving you get exactly what we have in the USA in 2009..... a no fear attitude, and no respect for authority!
That^^^certainly reads like support for hitting kids. What other 'physical consequences' are there? Pulling an ear?
The students with whom I work have no physical fear of me--No one is going to 'beat their ass'--they DO have a lot of respect for me. That respect was earned and is deeply appreciated.
Kids know if you're bullshit or the real deal. It means going the extra mile(s), but the point of education, for me, is that children learn to appreciate their own intelligence, and that they become active participants in that educational process.
I have young adults in my life--former students with children of their own, now--their lives are testimony to what can be achieved if humor, affection, patience, and honesty are the ingredients in educational endeavor.
What I do with students requires much energy and a ton of patience--but the payoff is huge. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/8/2009 11:18:27 PM | No one in this country is allowed to legally spank a child, and hasn't been allowed to for a number of years now, at least not where I live. Here, if your neighbor sees you spanking your kids, they can be removed from the home temporarily. And children know this from a young age, which leads to the situation we now have in America, no discipline at home plus no discipline at school has successfully ingrained an attitude of no respect for authority. I once worked with an ex-teacher from Pittsburg,Pa.
When asked why he gave up teaching he said" I got tired of getting beat up by students, and reprimanded by my superiors for trying to defend myself against said attackers"
These students had a blatant disrespect for authority fueled by a lack of discipline at home and the knowledge that their teacher was not allowed to even defend himself against them, much less "paddle their butt" like should have been happening at every past incident of violent behavior. These students knew that they had the upper hand, that they in fact were the authority. You on the other hand have obviously never been in a situation like that, and I hope you never are.
I am not saying that all juveniles are in need of corporal punishment.
Todays crime rate is directly related to the lack of discipline dispensed at home and at school during the formative years. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 3:05:08 AM | You can whip a child. But you better call a cop and have him note the manner in which you do it supervised because a SCHOOL guidance counselor will provide your child with an 800 number for just a tap on the azz, or a pop on the hand.
I was told by a middle school teacher and an Elementary school principle the same crock.
If you take your kids Nintendo and TV away, it is a form of child abuse, even though you paid for it. Also not putting chips and cookies in my sons lunch box was affecting him mentally as the other kids ate that stuff.
I could rant for days on this subject so I will spare you. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 6:44:41 AM | You can blame the schools if you wish ~
I tend to blame our society ~ and what we permit, allow and demand.
It seems to me that few students are serious about education.
The ones that are ~ do well. The one that aren't ~ fair less.
When was it ever cool for white or black children to carry-on like uneducated ghetto negro's?
When was music ever considered worth listening to that conveyed such filth, blatten disrespect for women, authority and life in general?
We live in a nation with personal freedom ~ too choice .
That the choices are poorly made is "public educations" fault?
I think not ~ I think parents need to be required a licenses to raise children or even breed.
Dance | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:13:55 AM |
No one in this country is allowed to legally spank a child, and hasn't been allowed to for a number of years now, at least not where I live. Here, if your neighbor sees you spanking your kids, they can be removed from the home temporarily. And children know this from a young age, which leads to the situation we now have in America, no discipline at home plus no discipline at school has successfully ingrained an attitude of no respect for authority. I once worked with an ex-teacher from Pittsburg,Pa.
When asked why he gave up teaching he said" I got tired of getting beat up by students, and reprimanded by my superiors for trying to defend myself against said attackers"
These students had a blatant disrespect for authority fueled by a lack of discipline at home and the knowledge that their teacher was not allowed to even defend himself against them, much less "paddle their butt" like should have been happening at every past incident of violent behavior. These students knew that they had the upper hand, that they in fact were the authority. You on the other hand have obviously never been in a situation like that, and I hope you never are.
I am not saying that all juveniles are in need of corporal punishment.
Todays crime rate is directly related to the lack of discipline dispensed at home and at school during the formative years.
Spanking is not outlawed. In fact, you can hit your child in the face with an open hand, and it's legal. Disgusting, but legal. I know this because I made a call to CPS and was given that information.
Of course a person can defend him/herself.
I've never been attacked by one of my students--and I worked at one time with the scary guys--because they had no reason to attack me. If you read anything I posted about the work I've done, then you'd understand WHY none of my kids were violent with me.
I've gotten between boys fighting--I've taken away weapons--I've faced down a group of gangbanger wannabes, and wasn't attacked.
I think people confuse 'discipline' with 'punishment'.
Punishment is 'beating his ass'.
Discipline is a long-term process--and violence is not a component.
And, unless you work in public education--in the classroom--then the opinion that:
"Todays crime rate is directly related to the lack of discipline dispensed at home and at school during the formative years." is bullshit. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:14:35 AM | One of my old primary schools has gone thru a dramatic change of events.
When I went to Busch grade school in the late 60's it was one of a few[3 I think} accelerated education schools in the STL area.WE were the "gifted" kids and travelled all around from within the city limits to go here.In theory....we were special....we learned easier,faster,more complex studies and were prepared for high school with an advantage of 2/3 years in courses.We were also fairly proud of that and many of us went on to better things.And of course,some didn't.That's simple numbers and logic.....it has to happen that way......
Press forward to 1995 and our 25th reunion.We actually were able to hold it at the school and found the few still living teachers and principal to attend.13 of us are dead,1 was on death row in TX[now dead]and a few were homeless and several not readily findable but attendance was in the 60's...we were a graduating class of about 130....and most had gone on to work in things other than fast food or garages.Good for us.We,mostly,lived up to the expectations given us.......
As we walk around the halls...we were reminded that 1970 was the last year of "gifted" kids to graduate that had spent the entire time there.
We also notice that one of the "achievements" of one of the homerooms was that they all remembered their gym clothes for a full week.............
Achievement = remembering their gym clothes....for a week.....WTF??
Skip forward to 2 summers past and I find a large banner over the front doors of the school "congratulating" the kids for a year of "adequate yearly progress".
Adequate....????
Yes...the schools have gotten that bad......and bad schools produce,eventually,bad teachers...........that's just common sense.And possibly where we are at the moment...... | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 8:14:04 AM | | i dont think its the public schools that fail our children, its the lack of parenting that goes on in this country. these kids get sent to school with non sens eof respect or discipline. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 9:26:35 AM | Some commentary on what's been said...
1. Hitting... In my view, the *threat* of hitting is far more effective than actually hitting as a form of discipline. And it's only really effective if the child refuses to talk/reason with you.
The idea is that you want your child to Prefer talk/reason as the alternative has consequences that would be unpalatable for them.
But there are also other forms of effective discipline too... such as loss of privileges, temporary or Permanent loss of toys or banishment to their rooms.
Hitting shouldn't be the default form of discipline. It should only be used as a backup or last resort.
Many people who say "no hitting" to me sound like they haven't had a truly strong-willed child who didn't... at first... respond to talking and reason.
It's easy to talk from a position of ignorance or from a position where you've left the discipline for someone else to take care of.
2. Discipline in schools. While they don't do 'the strap' or any other type of physical discipline in schools, kids can still be given detention, loss of privileges and other forms of discipline. I have always told my kids teachers that if either of my kids gets out of hand, call me and I give my personal guarantee that I will get compliance out of them one way or another.
I'm supportive of the teacher and I've found that the teachers have mostly been supportive of me. But some teachers are better than others. Some teachers are somewhat clueless.
But even if the teacher isn't that great, you get nowhere by yelling at them. You have to work with what you've got and if that fails, then you have a meeting with the teacher, the principle and the child.
And even if the child doesn't get treated fairly... guess what? The world isn't fair anyway and therefore, dealing with an unfair situation is a valuable life lesson for the child.
3. Testing standards. When *I* was in High School, I remember thinking that there was too much redundant and useless cr@p being repeated year after year and not enough of what was needed.
It is my belief that the curriculum I learned could have easily been shortened by 3-4 years.
The other issue is that what is taught was/is somewhat disconnected from what is needed in the real world today.
For example... do they teach about Mortgages, Finance, How to make the most of your money when grocery shopping, How to assess a Lease, the Laws surrounding marriage/divorce, etc? Not nearly enough in my opinion. One really useful thing would be "How to defend yourself in court without a lawyer".
The tests cited by an earlier poster looked like they were closely connected to knowledge that was typically needed at the time.
I didn't see enough of that when I was in elementary or high school.
I was told by a middle school teacher and an Elementary school principle the same crock.
If you take your kids Nintendo and TV away, it is a form of child abuse, even though you paid for it. Also not putting chips and cookies in my sons lunch box was affecting him mentally as the other kids ate that stuff.
Oooooh... I soooo would have a field day discrediting someone like that.
I'm sure you did as well.
I think I'd start by quoting their words to other more competent people in the teaching... maybe within the same school.
And I'd tell the teacher "I'm absolutely counting on a lack of chips/cookies affecting my son/daughter... in a GOOD way as he/she won't be eating garbage" and then I'd whip out data on obesity and heart disease...
The last lunch I made for my son (the day before yesterday) consisted of Garden Salad with Balsamic Vinaigrette dressing on the side, with a mini-croissant (the healthier kind, not the kind loaded with butter), some slices of cheese and a juice box. Sometimes I'll also include some Triscuit crackers or a Nectarine. Note that this is all stuff he likes and asked for. Of course he also asks for junk food too... but my Ex and I veto that.
As for Nintendo... Heh heh... the only game console my kids will get is one they buy themselves with money they earn themselves. Though he does play some games on the computer. But I don't let him play violent games like Halo... He asked for it... my Ex vetoed it and I backed my Ex's veto.
And while we have TV, we have the Basic package... and I'm flirting with the idea of just switching to an Antenna.
Yeah, I know I'm cruel...  | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 9:53:43 AM | Well, I don't know about you, but my high school would do everything they could to limit you socially + a crooked dress code policy just because so many males my age can't keep their pants up and feel the need to show their junk and/or their trunk. I had to get on the internet if I wanted to grow a sense of fashion. I hate small towns, or the deep south rather.
So maybe it was more of the pupils causing the problem rather than the administrators, then again, I've ran into a few teachers who went as far as insulting my intelligence with some nice language whenever I goofed up on a test or a worksheet.
I should have punched one of them in the face at least once...
I'm not subjecting my future kids to something called "TV". They're getting internet with adblock and if they do enough chores (Or when Christmas rolls around), a game console or two. Why? Reality shows suck and, well, the internet is the blasted internet. Think about it. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 10:36:11 AM | sorry.....but yes.....teachers need to be given back their paddles.
my class.1977.....was one of the last years corpral punishment was allowed in our school............in 4 yrs..it was used once.....the kid whoo got spanked was proubly the biggest hellraiser in school.......the gym teacher who paddled him was proubly the biggest teacher....to make a long story short........the teacher told the kid to quit doing something.......soon as his back was turned..he did it again......teacher saw him...imformed him he was getting paddled in 2 days..[manditory waiting period].......the kid cut school for 2 days....weekend came.......monday morning......he was taken by the arm out of homeroom by the gym teacher...taken to the office and paddled in front of the princapals........i wont say he became a model student.......but from that day till graduation.......if a teacher told him something.........he obeyed.
geeleebee.......i admire you as a teacher because apparently you care enough to earn your students tespect.............more teachers need to do that........teachers who respect their students and honestly teach them deserve every cent they make and much more........sadly......too many dont care..........all teaching is to them is a job | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 5:20:42 PM | geeleebee:
I must commend you for being a teacher, and for having the patience that it must require. I can also appreciate your opinion, as we all are entitled to one.
What I cannot appreciate is a woman of your education being so tactless as to refer to anothers opinion as bullshit!
In no way am I placing the blame for anything on you personally,or on this country's
educators or the educational system even. However your condescending attitude towards my opinion seems to convey the presence of a very angry, controlling,
personality.
Let me ask you this...when you weregrowing up, was there a strict disiplinarian in your
life? Did you obey your parents because you feared" the belt"? or was it because you
feared being put in time out? | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 5:49:56 PM |
geeleebee.......i admire you as a teacher because apparently you care enough to earn your students tespect.............more teachers need to do that........teachers who respect their students and honestly teach them deserve every cent they make and much more........sadly......too many dont care..........all teaching is to them is a job
geeleebee:
I must commend you for being a teacher, and for having the patience that it must require. I can also appreciate your opinion, as we all are entitled to one.
In every thing I read[and yes...not altogether too closely]where did this woman,who has "some college" as her education level, ever say she was a teacher?She has intimated at being involved with the teaching process but she may just as easily be the lunch lady or the school nurse[oops,"some college", gets in the way of that too]or some other function.Teacher?? | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 6:07:33 PM |
several times she referred to "her students".that is where i got the impression she is a teacher
I'm sure I have said the same thing about the kids I have to deal with at my schools as well....I teach...I instruct...I guide,use whatever term you choose, but I am not a teacher and don't make the claim to be. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:48:53 PM |
but I am not a teacher and don't make the claim to be.
This will be long:
I am in a unique situation in my career which provides me with the opportunity to work outside my job description.
I would also point out that we are all 'teachers'.
That said, thank you to those who took the time to read what I posted about my kids. There are any number of opportunities in our school system to make a difference, large or small, in the lives of our students, and when they come my way, I act on them.
The opportunities are not limited to certified teachers--those lunch ladies, for example, are often the first people our students see in the morning. The custodians and bus drivers make connections with our kids--the librarian and the recess people--I don't work in any of those positions, but I am aware of how they impact our children, and I'm grateful for the people who step up.
It does make me smile that someone seems a bit perplexed by the 'some college' response on my profile. I suppose I should be flattered that he took the time to check me out.
There wasn't a catagory for what I do--so I chose the closest thing.
'Some college' was all that was required for my position, back when I was hired (in the 80s). My education also includes workshops and conferences and inservices over the years to improve my skills and my knowledge of culture and language that enhance what I do.
On paper, I'm paid to do a specific job.
Off paper, I work outside my job description with the blessing of the teachers and administrators with whom I work.
It has been in that capacity that I have been involved with gangbangers and wannabes, the court system as an advocate, high school girls and unplanned pregnancies, homelessness, hunger, domestic violence, street violence, prostitution, and tremendous loss through death. I have a network of professionals--nurses, counselors, ministers and others--on which to draw support for the children when what I have to offer simply isn't enough.
Question/critisize 'some college', if you must, but don't doubt for a nanosecond that I have done what I've said or been where I've said.
I've come away with a profound understanding of what it means to pick up the towel, instead of stepping over it.
One of my students--I had a classroom called 'Mentorship/Tutorial for several years at one high school--graduated in 2001. She was in a very abusive marriage after high school, and divorced three children later. She's been to my home with her kids--they call me 'Nana'--and they're planning to move out of the women's shelter into a house of their own very soon. The connection we established during her high school years didn't escape into the ether--it's still there, and I'm still here for her.
She's a perfect example of what you teach a child when you say, "I believe you can do this", and you keep saying it until they start to believe it, as well.
Another of my boys caught me on FaceBook the other day--he always called me 'Big Mama'. He has a beautiful little girl, he's clean, and he's staying on the straight for the sake of his child. Baby's mama is a former teenage prostitute; now she works for the Border Patrol. Connections we made while they were in middle and high school--still strong.
I have dozens and dozens of examples of kids who struggled and overcame. Not because I'm a miracle worker--but because they CHOSE to believe me when I said, "Yes, you can", and then, they did.
To pull all of this back on topic:
Education must change.
We have to address some issues outside the classroom 'box'.
Let's focus on what we CAN do, and then step up and DO it.
Pick up the towel. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 7:36:59 AM | There are sooooo many points of interest with this topic.
1. Bad Teachers who move from school to school.
2. Teacher Unions. (Nuff Said?)
3. Bad Kids
4. Bad Parents
5. Kids that can't keep up.
6. Dumb down the system so lower brain life can cope and put the rest of Ritalin?
You notice for the past so many years the government and education system have been pushing for kids to go to college. Now that these low life kids who barely graduated and coped in high school are in college there is an INCREASE in CAMPUS violence?
Amazing how they now have MAGNATE schools for the kids who can actually retain knowledge.
My God son was a prime example of the education system trying to push drugs down the throats of children. He talked in class and got in trouble a few times. The teacher and admin. said he should go on Ritalin! His mother was a TEACHER!!! She had a knock down drag out fight with her husband and said he SHOULD go on it! He said NO F'in way!!!! The kid did NOT go on the Cr@p!!!! He now graduated high in class and is at ONE of the BEST COLLEGES!!!!
Public schools need to stick to curriculum and not push the homosexual agenda.
I understand the quote above I THINK! Is this reference made for the fact that schools have changed everything about learning. Kids are not in school today to learn reading, writing, and maths? Geography has been replaced with Global Warming and Why the USA is at fault? Government is not about WHY the founding fathers fought so hard to create a better country but about how BAD our country is on a GLOBAL scale? Why kids of 10 years old should not look up to their parents and the beliefs of their parents?
How 1+1 =2 and the fact that one man and one man can create a MOMMY? Science is now how DARWIN was right. (Even though he married is FIRST COUSIN. Read up on the case!) Sex Education is now about WHY we do it like dogs and SHOULD embrace our sexual curiosity with anything that walks on 2 legs? To "ACCEPT" that the laws of our government are wrong and love everyone for what they represent because they may have a point? Is that it?????????????????????????????????????? | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 7:48:54 AM | ^^^^heart warming and I'm glad you do the things you do.....good for you......
but still doesn't address the funding and manpower issues needed to get,back to that word again....., qualified,trained,certified,accredited,correct,dedicated,competent,able,energetic,moral,interested,fill in the blank..........do I need to offer any more specifications........?
And with your long history of being around and having the blessing of those around you.......you HAVE still been around more than 2 incompetent people in you career.You just can't seem to see it..........
On paper, I'm paid to do a specific job.
And if that job is "tax payer" funded........I'm sure you are making every attempt to see that it is done in a timely,competent way before all these other tasks are addressed.
On "paper" I have a set of specific set of obligations as well....and they will always come first...after all,that's what I'm paying myself for.....
I would also point out that we are all 'teachers'.
And we are all the "village" as well.........look how well that idea is working out.
Wow...in fact....in a few other threads here....people were adamant they are "NOT" part of the "village" and took offense at being included.Whadyaknow???
You notice for the past so many years the government and education system have been pushing for kids to go to college. Now that these low life kids who barely graduated and coped in high school are in college there is an INCREASE in CAMPUS violence?
And some have actually become[gasp]the teachers of the current crop of kids. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:28:42 AM |
And if that job is "tax payer" funded........I'm sure you are making every attempt to see that it is done in a timely,competent way before all these other tasks are addressed.
On "paper" I have a set of specific set of obligations as well....and they will always come first...after all,that's what I'm paying myself for.....
Thank you for your heartfelt concern.
I am very, very good at what I do--one of the reasons I've never been without a job in my particular field. I am evaluated every year, and I ask for peer evaluations, as well.
Those 'other tasks' are children.
Our teachers are working a schedule this year whereby they are given approximately 50 minutes to teach/class. If you have 30 kids in a classroom, and five of them require extra help, and there is no funding for that help--what would YOU do?
I know what I do.
you HAVE still been around more than 2 incompetent people in you career.You just can't seem to see it..........
Or...YOU can't seem to accept that the teachers with whom I have worked have been qualified. There was one glaring stinker in the bunch who retired a few years ago.
Could we all do better? Yes.
Keep eating the sour grapes--leaves the sweet ones for the rest of us who are doing something about the education of our children. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 10:09:37 AM |
Our teachers are working a schedule this year whereby they are given approximately 50 minutes to teach/class. If you have 30 kids in a classroom, and five of them require extra help, and there is no funding for that help--what would YOU do?
I know what I do.
<div class='quote'>
Burlington Edison High School public 7
17
Burlington-Edison Alternative School public --- ---
Skagit Adventist School private ---
---
GreatSchools
Ratings
Parent
Reviews
Students per
teacher
Bay View Elementary School public 7
19
Lucille Umbarger Elementary School public 4
16
Skagit Adventist School private ---
---
West View Elementary School public 2
15
School name
School
type
GreatSchools
Ratings
Parent
Reviews
Students per
teacher
Bay View Elementary School public 7
19
Burlington Little School private --- ---
Lucille Umbarger Elementary School public 4
16
Skagit Adventist School private ---
---
West View Elementary School public 2
15
Maybe I have the wrong town but the numbers of students per teacher seem to be different..... | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 10:24:01 AM | Maybe I have the wrong town but the numbers of students per teacher seem to be different.....
You do have the wrong town, wrong school, wrong level.
Students per
teacher
Bay View Elementary School public 7
19
Burlington Little School private --- ---
Lucille Umbarger Elementary School public 4
16
Skagit Adventist School private ---
---
West View Elementary School public 2
15
And, just an FYI; student numbers/classroom are figured using all certificated staff in building. This includes the librarian, who doesn't teach scheduled classes, and the administration who do not teach.
In our high school, we have four administrators and one librarian, when you factor them into the mix, it looks like we have fewer students-to-staff than is fact.
Also, you have a couple of private schools on your list--which usually have fewer students/classroom.
Is it that you don't believe me, or that you are determined to prove me wrong? | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 12:47:51 PM | Ultimately, unless the kid understands why what they did was wrong, the method of punishment really doesn't matter. It won't really fix anything. Corporal punishment leads to the understanding that, "if I do this, I'll get my ass beat." It teaches fear of retaliation, not understanding of why it's not a good idea to do what they did. By the same token, soft-handed discipline leads to the understanding that, "I can pretty much do whatever I want, and there's no real consequence for it."
The whole punishment/reward system is flawed without the offender truly being made to understand what made the event a poor choice in the first place. Whether it's a paddle acoss the ass or a time out, all it's teaching is knee-jerk response rather than competence. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:03:03 PM | | Actually....was just too suprised that you even mentioned "certificated" staff at all.....and wondering why the numbers from the school published averageg 17 kids per teacher and you mention 30?Just seems a bit odd to me....but what do I know......?Just that jump of 13 seemed odd....... | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:52:54 AM | Interesting thread.
It is nice to see some of the posters here looking at the bigger picture, rather than just blaming "teachers" which happens a lot in our current society ... or, at least happened alot in our recent past. Perhaps that is changing for the better.
Like everything, the answer is not black and white .... it is not an easy answer.
As the other teacher stated, teachers don't always agree with the guidelines that they are given for teaching. But ....... as in any other profession, one can take the guidelines they are supposed to follow, interpret them in a manner that best fits into their working philosophy ....... it is no different in teaching.
.. and like any other profession, the teaching profession is constantly changing their pedagogy (teaching term for "instructional methods" ... each industry has its own lingo!  )
I have transitioned into a full time teaching profession for about 6 years now, with many years teaching part-time at college while working in my first profession in the IT (Information Technology) profession prior to full time teaching.
My opinion is that the education standards have come down ... and yes, I feel it is since we are now pushing more students through our education system ... here in Ontario there is a focus on what we call the "at risk" students. As much as this can be viewed as a great thing ........ the unfortunate thing is that the schools and school boards are assessed by how many students finish high school .....
but ...... how good has their education been? ... or have they just been pushed through much like they were in the elementary schools prior to this push now in the high school system ... simply to satisfy the assessment that the schools and school boards are judged by, and since high schools must adjust to the clientele from elementary schools .
The univserities and colleges have complained that the students are no longer prepared for university or college ........ but they will have to change as well, just as the high schools had to ..... since the students are their clientele!
So, why this change ........ and why does it appear that it is not noticed by the Ministry of Education who defines the guidelines for the education system?
This indeed is the big question!
Some conspiracy theorists believe it is since the "corporate state" (I love when people use that phrase ......not!) plans it that way. Keep the general populace "dumb" so they can be lead! As much as I don't want to believe this ...... I do sometimes wonder with some decisions that are made!
I like to bring attention to the Charles Sykes book "Dumbing Down Our Kids". If you have not read it, then I suggest you do. btw .... Bill Gates has been credited for the "11 Rules for Graduates" which are actually from this book by Charles Sykes.
Most ethnic students who come from Asia or Europe are way ahead of the students here in North America (My guess is that most schools in US and Canada are similar).
Yes, our society supports this "dumbing down".
Not all parents take an active role in the development of their children.
But then, mine didn't for me, and I turned out well educated and what I consider logical! .... and if you know the story of Liz Murray (see the movie From Homeless to Harvard - the Liz Murray story), then you will see those who have succeeded in spite of their background.
The main issue that I see in our society and in our education system now ..... is the trend to "empower the students more"! They want us now to have the students set their goals for learning. Wow! As if the students are equiped to assess if they are learning. How do they know if they are? I believe we - a combination of teachers, parents, other family members, and friends must assist the students with their learning goals. They don't know enough to set these goals themselves. So, yes when we are directed with what I call such nonsense ...... one really wonders where these ideas come from. But such nonsense directives occur in all industries. Why should the education system be any different.
Back when I worked in IT, we used to joke about the "flavour of the month from Harvard"! ...... speaking of Harvard!
There has been talk here on this thread about discipline ...... I do not agree with anything violent. There are ways to discipline without violence. Enough has been said about this. This is not the issue.
The issue I see is that many students and parents do not VALUE education,and the work ethics in our society is very low.
The students who do not do well in school do not put enough effort into their work. They give up too easily and only want to do what is easy to do.
Where do they get this ethic? ...... from their homes! After all, they lived at home before they went to school. Too many parents make negative statements about schools ........ so why should the students feel that they need an eduation. Too many people will do the least amount of work in their jobs. Their children see this work ethic, and follow it!
The demographics and socio-economic make-up of the school affects the success rate of the students ....... of course how they are assessed comes into the picture as well. As I already stated ... you can push students through the system and the outcome looks good ....... but, have they learned?
Many of you picked on geeleebee for what credentials she had.
You have covered that enough.
Credentials are not everything, but, as someone else already stated, since more people are more educated now, one is competing with educated people. So, you need the same credentials to get the job. The fact that geeleebee got her job with such credentials, she could not get such a job these days. The same is true with College professors. The necessary credentials these days is much higher.
The fact that she says that she is successful, I guess we must take her word for it, since success is not easy to assess. Just because the students are "friendly" with her doesn't necessarily mean they are learning.
This is long enough .............. | |
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| Are the U.S. public schools really that bad?
Posted: 10/11/2009 8:39:23 AM | | I think as an effort to involve parents in the education of their children Public Schools should begin charging tuition. This would provide parents and their children with a sense of value with regard to education. I think at least one of the reasons education in Public Schools falls into the range of inadequate is because of the perception on the part of both parents and students that public education is free and basically worth less than a private education. I believe much of the apathy, indifference, sense of entitlement and disruptive behavior on the part of parents, students and teachers can be attributed to the lack of tuition. I would suggest reducing the school tax by say 10% as a start and making up the difference with tuition and for those parents who absolutly cannot afford a tuition a means by which they could work it off eg. crossing guards, cleaning , providing security or whatever skills parents may have that could reduce the cost of operating a school. | |
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