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| Atheist's and Islam
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:44:25 PM | RE Msg: 25 by CountIbli:
This turns out to be a mistranslation. It really says 72 white raisins (Google it if you don't believe me). I did. That makes no sense to me. I've read a fair few older texts. Raisins are a great delicacy. But 72 is not very many raisins. It's probably not enough to make 2 bottles of wine. So it would give anyone who used to live in older times, and who ate raisins, as so many did, as if Heaven was a place of scarcity and lack, and not a paradise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#Interpretations
Generally the Atheists arguments apply to numerous versions of god. However, as others have said, in the US most Theists are Christians so arguments are tailored towards Christianity. On the other side of the coin most American Atheists used to be Christian so we're more familiar with Christianity thanother religions. Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. But how do you know that "the Atheists arguments apply to numerous versions of god"?
You wrote that most American Atheists used to be Xians. The US is 300 million people. That's a lot of people. But there are more people in Europe. For every 1 American, there are 19 non-Americans. That would be like me trying to base the preferences of 20 people, on just one. So how can any American hope to make an argument to billions of people, based on only 5% of them, who almost certainly don't think anything like those 5% at all, and who those arguments probably have no basis at all for them?
Further, there are thousands of religions, of which Xianity is just one. Yet even when discussing its closest religion, Judaism, even well-educated Xians display an unbelievable level of ignorance about the most basic of Jewish belief. So how can American Atheists possibly make arguments that can apply to more than Xianity?
Further, there are at least hundreds of denominations of Xianity, and even the ones in America differ hugely, so much so, that it would be extremely difficult to find one argument that would apply to them all. Even though each American atheist might have been raised as a Xian, they would each been raised in only one denomination, or two at most, and only really understand those, and only be in a good position to make arguments about them. How can they possibly make valid arguments for anyone other than the one denomination that they were raised in?
For what it's worth, Allah doesn't exist and Muslims are delusional. Can you definitely prove G-d doesn't exist? Nope? Then you're saying that G-d doesn't exist without proof, on your word,as "gospel truth", because you a prophet? Should we rename Massachusetts Iblicca in your honour? Should we burn the Muslim "infidels" because they disagree with the great prophet Ibli? | |
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| Atheist's and Islam
Posted: 11/3/2009 12:20:03 AM | Lookie here.... (are we headed for another dark age?)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/science/03islam.html?hpw
Creationism, Minus a Young Earth, Emerges in the Islamic World
By KENNETH CHANG
Published: November 2, 2009
AMHERST, Mass. — Creationism is growing in the Muslim world, from Turkey to Pakistan to Indonesia, international academics said last month as they gathered here to discuss the topic.
[...]
The debate over evolution is only now gaining prominence in many Islamic countries as education improves and more students are exposed to the ideas of modern biology.
The degree of acceptance of evolution varies among Islamic countries.
[...]
Even finding out how different countries teach evolution can be difficult, Dr. Hameed said. Saudi Arabia, for example, does not let foreigners see the biology textbooks. “We don’t have much information,” he said.
For many Muslims, even evolution and the notion that life flourished without the intervening hand of Allah is largely compatible with their religion. What many find unacceptable is human evolution, the idea that humans evolved from primitive primates. The Koran states that Allah created Adam, the first man, separately out of clay.
Pervez A. Hoodbhoy, a prominent atomic physicist at Quaid-e-Azam University in Pakistan, said that when he gave lectures covering the sweep of cosmological history from the Big Bang to the evolution of life on Earth, the audience listened without objection to most of it. “Everything is O.K. until the apes stand up,” Dr. Hoodbhoy said.
Mentioning human evolution led to near riots, and he had to be escorted out. [...]
Ain't religion grand?
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| Atheist's and Islam
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:20:19 PM | Where4
The Koran hasn't just specified that humans were created out of clay. There are many verses that refer to the fact that humans and all living things are made of water and dust, clay.
In fact..............
Here is the verse for you when it talks about them.
Quran 21:30 : Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely!] (Ar-Rum 30:20)
- There are numerous references from the Koran referring to water and earth being part of the composition of living things. In fact, according to the theory of evolution, life began in water, so I don't see any contradiction here as to the composition of living things from water and earth. | |
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| Atheist's and Islam
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:32:46 PM | ^^^
Many enlightened Christians also accept the theory of evolution as being without contradiction to the teachings of their faith. Recently I attended a lecture by a professor of biology at a Catholic university here in Pittsburgh (Dr. Dave Lampe of Duquesne University, a noted Darwin scholar). He expressed his great frustration that so many students come to him not realizing that his church and evolution are not incompatible; not only does he teach evolution in a Catholic university, but he was educated in Catholic schools throughout his life. It is only certain fundamentalist Christians who dispute evolution. The professor quoted Pope John Paul as saying something like, "To argue against science is intellectual suicide." John Paul, of course, is the recent pope who apologized for his church's trial of Galileo (after a few centuries have passed).
With current day politics and the boisterous rise of the religious right in America people are getting confused, some believing that all Christians must believe what fundamentalist Christians so loudly declare. The article I cited above simply states that the same trend of religious fundamentalists arguing with science is moving toward some majority Islamic nations now, too.
Although I am an atheist I don't condemn all religion. I can respect and learn from the traditions of all different faiths; I am not willing to be controlled by any of them. I do condemn those fundamentalists of ANY faith who force down the quality of education through political intimidation.
The Catholic professor, Dr. Lampe, sees it as his duty to inform the public about his concerns. He recommends that citizens pay attention and get involved in local government (school boards) to MAKE SURE THAT TEACHERS ARE NOT AFRAID TO TEACH EVOLUTION! He also strongly condemns the trend of pseudo-sciences like "Creationism" and "Intellligent Design." Despite the U.S. Supreme Court deciding that these are NOT SCIENCE and have no place in public school science classes, the fundamentalists persist! | |
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