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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:28:17 PM |
I bet Pete Seeger would be the first to congratulate Obama and shake his hand. A simple lesson for all the haters in this thread. that is such a great point you made.Its really true,I cannot believe the sour grapes attitude shown to the winner,irregardless who had been the winner I would have felt happy for them !
It was a case of you either said congratulations to him or you said nothing to him.It reminds me of the awards show where Kanye ran up and took the mike from the young 17 yr. old winners hand who had just won the award,he then took the mike and told everyone there that in so many words that another entertainer was better.I was shocked,and he ended up being the countries buffoon for it,he even canceled his tour,the country was irked,no one likes the ones that have the sour grapes attitude,tantrums don't look good on anyone,here all these days later the haters are still hating at the same level,it has not died down a bit ! | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 7:50:47 PM | "The Nobel Prize committee made the decision"
Well they happen to have made the decision for Obama... all past winners and probably all future winners too.
"Interesting that in the end the Obama supporters arguments...
You guys shouldn't even tried to argue your losing position if this is where we ended..you could have started with that and not exposed yourselves as being the unthinking illogical Omaba zealots that you are."
What is more interesting is your need to criticize Obama and supporters for a decision that neither made nor claim to be deserved...
WE don't have the right to "question the validity of Obamas win." | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:00:13 PM |
Just these three readings quite CLEARLY illustrate my contention that the award to Obama is FULLY in keeping with the criteria applied by the committee over the last 100+ years The same question still applies what has he done to deserve it ? even the Nobel Committee Chairman had trouble defining specifically what Obama had done to deserve the Award....check out the way he answered the questions on the video......
You started off trying to convince everyone that Obama had done so much and accomplished so much that we were wrong for questioning his win,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now after all of the pages you have been reduced to saying that "the award to Obama is FULLY in keeping with the criteria applied by the committee"......................
And you still have not sited any concrete examples of what he has done to deserve the Nobel, don't feel bad though the Chairman of the Committee who voted to gave it to him couldn't come up with a concrete achievement either....
"well first of all changing the international climate and setting a new international order is a concrete achievement"
WTF? Seriously can the guy be any more ambiguous
Sure we do..... | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:11:27 PM |
The same question still applies what has he done to deserve it ? even the Nobel Committee Chairman had trouble defining specifically what Obama had done to deserve the Award....check out the way he answered the questions on the video......
You started off trying to convince everyone that Obama had done so much and accomplished so much that we were wrong for questioning his win,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now after all of the pages you have been reduced to saying that "the award to Obama is FULLY in keeping with the criteria applied by the committee"......................
And you still have not sited any concrete examples of what he has done to deserve the Nobel, don't feel bad though the Chairman of the Committee who voted to gave it to him couldn't come up with a concrete achievement either....
"well first of all changing the international climate and setting a new international order is a concrete achievement"
WTF? Seriously can the guy be any more ambiguous
Your opinion would be the same if he walked on water and had united the whole world by stomping out illness, hunger and every other malady known to man/women
Since the Nobel Committee presented it to him for his potential future achievements I guess we will have to just wait and see.
Mean time crying towels are on sale at Sears | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:58:29 PM |
And you still have not sited any concrete examples of what he has done to deserve the Nobel
Yeah, we have. You just choose to turn a blind eye to the examples, because they show your arguments are wrong. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:00:11 PM |  Leaving all the bickering for awhile ... watching the Fiesta Latina Music concert broadcast from White House right now. Great show. Obama and the first family's rockin'. 
 Mo | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:41:18 PM |
And you still have not sited any concrete examples of what he has done to deserve the Nobel I should be apologizing ,upon listening to you over and over and you having problems not being able to process fact,proof and lots of logic we're giving you, I'm noticing your having to be told 10 times only for us to receive back a reply ,"hey,wheres that proof".Look , is there really anything more that would sell us ? I assume that you could keep asking your same questions,but do you really think it will produce any different results ! .........I don't either.
Look ,seems this warning you want us all the heed on anything Obama,is not working out for you,yes you have like four others here that cheer with you but that's it,and they all have turned almost exclusively to repeating jokes they hear and letting us know when a poll has moved a tenth of a percent.I know you don't see this as we do,that's ok,stuff happens,but no one wants to buy your stuff,I'm sorry !
This wasn't personal,but you made it personal,Obama won and you, in your eyes seem to think you lost,you act like our country lost the minute Obama won,all your threads your on say that.I realize you try hard to warn us all to duck,beware,its all coming,its going to happen for sure so heed my words , but really,I feel quite comfortable thank you ! I'm not feeling the impending doom or that the sky's falling,I feel quite comfortable,in fact the moment Bush crawled away I felt very good and little by little I keep feeling better and I'm pleased as punch that I voted for the right man to try,to attempt to fix this monstrous mess that he did not cause ! and if it does not work out in all the ways he hoped it would,I will be extremely happy that no one could of tried harder and that he always gave it 120%,how could anyone ask more of a president.Had the man taken a USA in perfect pristine condition and then slowly ruined it,I wouldn't be talking this way.This is different,its very different,this man takes on a completely broken country and is attempting to fix it,Good luck to you Barrack ! | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:57:43 PM | I am glad you are happy with the present administration....thats what makes America great we have the freedom to express opposing points of view(at least for now......lol)
...I owe mungo an apology I have read back through all of his posts in this thread and he is correct he has been consistent. He never offered any opinion other than the fact that the Nobel Prize committee picked Obama. In all of his threads he stuck to that and to ridiculing any poster that questioned the judgment of the committee....
You may all disagree with my position, thats cool I watched the video and listened to what the committee had to say. the rationale they used to justify picking Obama and was left wondering how any one could see it as anything more than a Political statement made by the committee and a subtle effort to influence Foreign policy.....Obama may have been chosen to Win the Prize...but in my opinion he did not do anything to EARN it........... | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:04:29 PM |
I watched the video and listened to what the committee had to say the rationale they used to justify picking Obama and was left wondering how any one could see it as anything more than a Political statement
I don't think anyone argued that it isn't a political statement.
and a subtle effort to influence Foreign policy
We can't see what isn't there.
Obama may have been chosen to Win the Prize...but in my opinion did not do anything to EARN it
The people who belong on that committee, who are the authorities on who deserves the award, have a different opinion. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:51:24 AM |
We can't see what isn't there. Its there you just don't want to see it..like I said its cool. In the end you are right the Committee made the decision. Doesn't mean we can't express our wonderment about the criteria used to award it to someone so seemingly undeserving.
It is interesting to see how people who support Obama support everything about him even things that he has no control of like winning the Prize, that level of devotion is kind of scary..
we have two Wars ongoing. Obama has done little to stop these Wars, his supporters will make a multitude of excuses as to why, but didn't he run for office under the premise of implementing strict withdrawal time lines? So I guess in the end the Award was based on Purty Words and not on Action......isn't War the antithesis of Peace? | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 5:32:32 AM |
It is interesting to see how people who support Obama support everything about him even things that he has no control of like winning the Prize, that level of devotion is kind of scary..
we have two Wars ongoing. Obama has done little to stop these Wars, his supporters will make a multitude of excuses as to why, but didn't he run for office under the premise of implementing strict withdrawal time lines? So I guess in the end the Award was based on Purty Words and not on Action......isn't War the antithesis of Peace?
Yes, Obama inherited two wars from the Bush administration. Your statement that Obama has done little to stop these Wars" does not square with the facts. In fact, Obama has started the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, and after sending additional troops to Afghanistan to try to stabilize the situation that had gravely deteriorated under Bush, and after the election marred by fraud, the president isn't very willing to send further troops to Afghanistan without re-evaluating the situation in that country. The allegations that Karzai is involved with the drug traffickers are mounting day by day. We don't need to send more of our people to die there to protect Karzai.
You should know that the pressure to send additional troops immediately, without re-evaluating the situation in Afghanistan, is coming from the republican side. What do they want to accomplish? Without a strategy you would just be prolonging the war, without end in sight. Is it because war a profitable business for the republican side?
I don't believe that president Obama wants to keep wars going on so that his friends can get no-bid contracts, like Bush and Cheney's friend got a few years ago.
And I feel happy to know that I'm not alone in believing that president Obama is a man of Peace. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 7:42:14 AM | I think as long as Obama watches at a minimum, two college football games this year, he should win the Heisman Trophy.
Anyways...I wonder if Congress is going to need to vote whether or not he can accept the prize.
From Section 9 of Article 1 of the U.S. Constitution:
No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.
The Emolument Clause prohibits Congress from granting any title of nobility. In addition, it specifies that no civil officer may accept, without the consent of Congress, any emolument, office or title from a foreign ruler or state. However, a U.S. citizen may receive foreign office before or after their period of public service.
~ds~ | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 7:50:41 AM | ^^^ He already said he's giving the Nobel money to charity. What he'll do with the actual prize is anyone's guess.
Agree with tranquilo. Obama inherited one hell of a mess and he’s trying to do all he can to address not only our foreign but domestic situations. That doesn’t mean willy-nilly, impulse measures to placate his critics, but what’s feasible and in the best interests of the country.
Pulling everything out of Iraq and Afghanistan in one, fell swoop will leave a vacuum and exacerbate an already terrible situation. Do Obama’s critics want that? And if done and things go as badly as predicted by the experts, will these very same critics be the first to lay blame and denounce him for being foolish and naive?
Btw, I don’t play double standards, either. Haters are haters, no matter what stripe. I’ve had many run-ins in other threads about Bush with the same people I’m agreeing with about Obama right now, and I’ll reiterate what I wrote then.
For all his faults Bush was not some evil Machiavellian manipulator out to destroy the country. I firmly believe he honestly did what he felt best, same as Obama. Bush haters conveniently forget he was the one that had to face 9-11, the most destructive attack on our country in history, after only a few months in office. To stop all follow up domestic attacks since, and for keeping my fellow Americans safe and snug in their homes for years, deserves some appreciation, not ridicule and hate. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 8:35:18 AM |
I think as long as Obama watches at a minimum, two college football games this year, he should win the Heisman Trophy.
Anyways...I wonder if Congress is going to need to vote whether or not he can accept the prize. First off I'm so tired of the Heisman joke lets here it again so we can have a bakers dozens.
Lets look into the nit picking, at anything,question.As for the definition of Nobility ,example number two of the American Heritage Dictionary states, 2. Noble rank or status: Congress may not grant titles of nobility.By that statement along then the title "president" is obviously not a title of Noble rank,because Congress may not grant titles of nobility. and A Nobel Prize is not a sign of nobility or the giving of a noble rank .As for the money,its all going for charity,a very standard thing,presidents are constantly given gifts and they are given to charity.This one doesn't take an attorney !
Nobility
.NOUN:
pl. no·bil·i·ties
1. A class of persons distinguished by high birth or rank and in Great Britain including dukes and duchesses, marquises and marchionesses, earls and countesses, viscounts and viscountesses, and barons and baronesses: "The old English nobility of office made way for the Norman nobility of faith and landed wealth" (Winston S. Churchill).
2. Noble rank or status: Congress may not grant titles of nobility.
3. The state or quality of being exalted in character. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 10:06:15 AM | ^^ Instead of focusing on the definition of 'nobility', try focusing on the definition of 'emolument'. Then, refer to the bolded portion below...
In addition, it specifies that no civil officer may accept, without the consent of Congress, any emolument...
Whether he keeps the money, donates it, or whatever, isn't the point. The point is, is he even allowed to accept it without Congress' consent? Geez, don't be so defensive...I think it's an interesting question and might even set a precedent one way or the other.
presidents are constantly given gifts and they are given to charity
Can you give some examples of gifts Presidents have received from foreign entities while in office (valued at over a million $)?
~ds~ | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 10:18:14 AM | David, sorry, but your whole point is ridiculous. Presidents get gifts from entities outside the US all the time, and have since the nation's founding. If you stand by your argument then every president since Washington has violated the Constitution and should have been charged with a crime.
Gifts of State
The exchange of gifts among kings and chiefs and presidents and premiers is a centuries-old tradition. From the ancient civilizations of Rome and Egypt to the native tribes of North America, ceremonial gifts have paved the way for peaceful coexistence between peoples of different cultures. They are universal symbols in the language of diplomacy.
In 1787 a young America defied this old custom and banned the acceptance of foreign gifts by government officials. For citizens of a new democracy, gifts bore both the distasteful odor of aristocracy and the distinct scent of danger: A bribe in betrayers' hands could topple a government. In spite of the prohibition, the strong tradition of diplomatic exchange compelled foreign leaders to continue to send gifts. Refusing them proved impossible; it was at best impolite and at worst a stinging offense. Despite early ideals, Presidents often had no choice but to accept foreign gifts; indeed, every President since George Washington has received gifts of state.
Today gift-giving between heads of state is an important part of modern-day international relations. U.S. Presidents routinely meet face to face with leaders from every corner of the earth. These state visits shimmer with pomp and ceremony, including formal welcomes, elaborate dinners, and the exchange of gifts. As tokens of this ritual of diplomacy, gifts are enduring emblems of international cooperation and friendship.
Though gifts from foreign leaders bear a symbolic meaning, they also resonate with the variety and vibrancy of all the nations of the world. They range from native arts or antiques-prized pieces of a country's culture and heritage–to sparkling gold and gemstones. Other gifts are surprisingly sentimental, symbols of national or personal friendship. All enrich the relations between two countries and their leaders. And each recalls a moment in history, when two nations–often separated by oceans or ideology–briefly clasped hands.
Full article and "examples" of gifts received by former presidents while "still" in office ....
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/tokens_and_treasures/gifts_of_state.html | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 10:53:30 AM | Sorry David but you set the entire tone wrong when you come in here as the 10th person to tell the Heisman joke,its clearly states right from the get go that Obama receiving a Nobel is an utter joke to you,you show all your cards on hello,then all of a sudden you want to state a point and make it seem its not nit picking.
Our country has some of the best attorneys around looking out for the interests of our commander and chief,and your point would have become an issue within a few hours after the award was given and it was not.I only broke down the reasoning of charity and nobility for your sake,as for emolument,I did not see that as an issue,you were the one in wonder or the one with the point,not me.Had you not done the joke my remark would have strictly been one of help,to give whatever info I had !
Thank you Motown for explaining further and as for your comment that you are not one to be loosely thrown into a hater category,I consider that correct.It is true we have together debated many times on opposite sides of the Obama fence,and I learned you are one with valid points and will debate finer points,and whether you won or lost that round,when both sides finished their points you then move on to the next point,you do not ask and ask repeatedly for the same thing as if no one ever gave it like some do.
As I said many times before there are opposition here that's a pleasure to debate with and other ones that come off as a basic well rounded hater,and all topics seem nit picking with that type,you are one of the good debaters !Infact I have had to humble myself at times with you,hey sometimes people enlighten you to something not thought of, or an undeniable fact,debate is a very important tool if used in the right spirit. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 10:57:25 AM |
Its there you just don't want to see it
There is nothing there to see.
It is interesting to see how people who support Obama support everything about him even things that he has no control of like winning the Prize, that level of devotion is kind of scary..
It is interesting to see how people who hate Obama hate everything about him, even things that he has no control of like winning the Prize, that level of devotion is kind of scary..
On other matters...
Whether he keeps the money, donates it, or whatever, isn't the point. The point is, is he even allowed to accept it without Congress' consent? Geez, don't be so defensive...I think it's an interesting question and might even set a precedent one way or the other.
The Nobel Prize Committee is not a king, prince or foreign state. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:10:32 PM |
The Nobel Prize Committee is not a king, prince or foreign state.
Apparently they are a bunch of dumbazz's.
I think he should be given an academy award for best actor of 09. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:24:48 PM | I'll forward your recommendation to the Academy. 
Thanks for the compliment, smiling. I try to be fair and honest in any debate and not resort to demagoguery and hyperbole. I understand no one ideology or political stance is perfect for every solution or can adequately answer every problem. I also really try to stay away from character assassination based on personal animosity and hatred. Unfortunately, I see that happen way too often, on "both" sides of the fence. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/17/2009 2:38:58 PM | Munga I already did so you're inability to comprehend is not my problem.
Again for the short version.
Wiesel.. Brought the violence to light the was perpetrated against people because of their ethnic and religious backgrounds through his writing. Through further writing and education and speeches taught people not to follow the paths that excused the violence being done by the Nazi party in german's minds again. He spoke out and against those cases where people were being persecuted by ethnic and religious backgrounds. Be they Latin, asain, etc. The words of the Nobel committee then explain more clearly, then I have time to waste on stupidity, such as this both his and the earlier von Ossietsky did contribute to "fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1986/presentation-speech.html
It's not incumbent on me to teach or prove to you, your own blind ignorance. Nor can I the old saying is you can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink. I am not of the right nor is the right's argument mine. I do not hate Obama, my issue is not with him save in that he is not qualified and he should have turned it aside.
Well, let's just look at how Obama's award stacks up against those examples I listed and SEE if there really is the difference you claim.
Obviously someone didn't like my first reply to this and had it deleted for copyright restrictions based on my quoting the presentation speech for Ossietzky.
It is copyrighted so I can't really argue with that, but the press releases aren't and I will suffice with linking to the presentation speeches and noting what points you should look for.
It means more surfing for the reader but, such are the rules (though it is amazing the lengths some will go to in order to avoid acknowledging that thier viewpoint has been proven wrong)
Wiesel press release
The Nobel Peace Prize for 1986
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has resolved that the Nobel Peace Prize for 1986 should be awarded to the author, Elie Wiesel. It is the Committee's opinion that Elie Wiesel has emerged as one of the most important spiritual leaders and guides in an age when violence, repression and racism continue to characterise the world.
Wiesel is a messenger to mankind; his message is one of peace, atonement and human dignity. His belief that the forces fighting evil in the world can be victorious is a hard-won belief. His message is based on his own personal experience of total humiliation and of the utter contempt for humanity shown in Hitler's death camps. The message is in the form of a testimony, repeated and deepened through the works of a great author.
Wiesel's commitment, which originated in the sufferings of the Jewish people, has been widened to embrace all repressed peoples and races.
The Norwegian Nobel Committee believes that Elie Wiesel, with his message and through his practical work in the cause of peace, is a convincing spokesman for the view of mankind and for the unlimited humanitarianism which are at all times necessary for a lasting and just peace.
Oslo, October 14, 1986
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1986/press.html
Obama press release
The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.
Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.
Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.
For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."
Oslo, October 9, 2009
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html
and let's throw in Ossietzky's presentation speech just for good measure
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1935/press.html
You may note in thier rationale the rather ephemeral justifications they used.
You may note how they compare Ossietzky's work as a journalist to a "stage artist" in order to justify it as a qualification
You may note how they argue that he is not just "a symbol" as many had argued but something more than that, "a deed" and "a man".
You may note that they argue even if he were just a symbol, that such symbols are of great significance in life, that they motivate, inspire and urge others to action.
And why not Soderblom's presentation speech as well.
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1930/press.html
In his presentation they state that it is fully in keeping with Nobel's view of peace that "no restrictions are imposed on the manner in which it is performed.", that it must be that way as "both hand and heart are required.".
They argue that Nobel placed "no strict limits" on the Peace Prize, that only "serious and noble effort" was required to qualify.
So really, what is the difference here in terms of "qualification" or "deserving" the award.
Just these readings quite CLEARLY illustrate my contention that the award to Obama is FULLY in keeping with the criteria applied by the committee over the last 100+ years. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/17/2009 3:20:39 PM |
Obviously someone didn't like my first reply to this and had it deleted
It never ceases to amaze the lack of integrity of people who will resort to that kind of move in order to silence an opposing point of view. They like to win at all costs, and it doesn't matter to them that they are preventing, at least trying to prevent, the readers from having the information to make up their minds as to the constant elements of judgment by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee when awarding the prize. | |
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| President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:57:37 PM | Well all of this only proves that Obama won because the Nobel Prize agrees with Obamas world view and that they Gave him the prize because of it, it does not prove that Obama has done anything substantial to have Earned the Prize. Isn't it possible that the Nobel Prize committees criteria is political and not really based on whether or not someone really deserved it but on which person would be most effective in advancing the Committees world vision?
As laypersons we have been lead to believe that the prize was awarded based on the noble deeds done by the nominee...but in reality the Prize is nothing more than an affirmation to the given to the nominee for parroting the wishes and vision of the Nobel Prize committee...
I believe that initially the prize was awarded to those who had actually more closely adhered to the criteria set forth by Alfred Nobel but over the last 30 years or so the criteria devolved from actual concrete accomplishments to conceptual and idealogical beliefs expressed by the nominee.....as in the Case of Obama....
we have been asking on this thread for some significant concrete accomplishment that Obama has done that would qualify him for the Peace Prize it doesn't matter the Committee can choose anyone they like for any reason they want as is displayed in the video of the chairman of the committee, they can twist the meaning of Nobels will to justify anyone that they choose.
This is just one of those things that makes normal rationale people say WTF? | |
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