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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:38:59 AM | It is never ok.
We usually except SELF DEFENSE. But even then that is a grey area since what one terms as self defense may not be so for others. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:39:26 AM | I never once hit a woman although I was angry enough to a few times in one relationship. I just walked out of the room. Self defense is something else. But no real man hits a woman, only a punk. And any woman who remains in that situation without leaving is either a masochist or a fool. Any guy can say he's sorry afterwards, but when it's deja vu all over again, that should be enough of a message to move on. Don't be fooled if he says he loves you, ladies. That is not love, it's power, control, and insecurity on his part.  | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 9:01:57 AM | | Violence is never acceptable. The minute you feel like slapping, kicking or punching someone you should end the relationship and seek the help of a good counsellor. Too many people have relationships with Dr Jekyll/ Mr Hyde personalities. When everything's going well they convince themselves it's not going to happen again....and who knows, the next time you may be so badly injured you won't be able to walk away. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 11:14:57 AM | licoricecat, Thank you for sharing , but I am a bit skeptical of your story ... what I can't figure out is why is your purse in the trunk of his car ? We women always put our purse on the floor of the car near our feet, I would assumed you and him went dancing, but still you carry your purse to the club to freshen up makeup,comb hair, mouth spray, etc..when you are with a man,,,, even with girlfriends if we go to classy club I carry my purse ,unless we go to not classy club then I leave my purse in the trunk of MY CAR and just carry,driving licence,lipstick,gum,$20.00 in my jeans pocket..
The latch of the trunk is on the left side below the driver seat, and I assumed that you are on the front right side passenger seat,and it is hard for you to wrestle ,by lying your torso on his lap to reach the trunk latch, because of the steering wheel, and of course he was trying to hold you or hitting you and he was strong....
How can he open the car while he was driving and the car is in motion ??? He called the police first with his cell phone " that makes sense" I assume you are uncontrolable and attacking him.......... First ??? He was choking you with his two hands and hitting (what triggered him to hit you?) you while he was driving? I understand some people can drive with out their hands on steering wheel but not their eyes and attention on the road.. and while he was choking and hitting you his full eyes and attention is on you....... And the policemen are not one sided,they listen to both of your case. They were trained to know who was on the wrong side..... | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 11:30:05 AM |
Except self defence. EVERYONE has the right to defend themselves. And yes, for clarity sake, this includes men hitting the woman that just struck them. Men shouldn't have to tolerate it any more than a woman would be expected to.
I have trouble with this one...
I am fairly adept so hitting a woman is not needed even as self defense... (at least I've never needed to - can't say it won't ever happen ie if she had a gun)
I've had one attack me with a knife... it was no trouble for me to disarm her (alcohol on her part)
But to my mind, with a man's superior (for the most part) strength and frequently better skills, disarming or restraining her should not be an issue and still not need to physically injure her... | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 11:58:12 AM |
Except self defence. EVERYONE has the right to defend themselves. And yes, for clarity sake, this includes men hitting the woman that just struck them. Men shouldn't have to tolerate it any more than a woman would be expected to. I have trouble with this one...
I am fairly adept so hitting a woman is not needed even as self defense... (at least I've never needed to - can't say it won't ever happen ie if she had a gun)
I've had one attack me with a knife... it was no trouble for me to disarm her (alcohol on her part)
But to my mind, with a man's superior (for the most part) strength and frequently better skills, disarming or restraining her should not be an issue and still not need to physically injure her...
Church -- I had a "short-list" of people I expected to try and debate that point, and guess what...you were on that list. Thanks for not disappointing me 
So now to the point.
You're implying a fairly substantial "should" in your premise. And I mean, VERY substantial. Should this...and should that...I should...men should...
But alas man, not everyone has the "skills" to adequately subdue a combatant. And yanno...unless you've been under a rock for quite some time, not all men are created equal. You use phrases like superior strength/better skills to suggest that a man is somehow more superior than his female counterpart. Clearly you've missed the point. There are now just as many adept females out there and their numbers rise daily. If one has had the benefit or luxury of acquiring a skillset to properly disarm and/or subdue an opponent this seems the logical path to avoid a messy confrontation...but what of those that haven't?
YOU may have the necessary skills to subdue...but do we all?
Your very argument suggests that because we are men, and therefore so much more superior physically to a woman...that we should just "take it like a man". The alternative being the ability to properly and non violently subdue the aggressor.
And your argument is exactly WHY there are countless unreported cases of abuse where the female was the aggressor, and the man was the human punching bag. They feel that they should just "take it like a man". They are told this. They have been ingrained to "take it like a man". So the cycle of abuse manifests itself due to non reporting. He won't say anything about it because who would believe him anyways, right? A man...getting his ass handed to him by a lowly, feeble, inferior woman?
Remove the ability to properly subdue a female aggressor, and your argument implies that men should just stand there and take it because gee, men shouldn't hit women. You are, by default, condoning abuses against men simply because YOU don't have to deal with it. And if you condone one, you have to equally condone the other. She should just stand there and take her lumps too. Because she's obviously inferior.
Strength before senses.
And also bear in mind that not all men date the stick figures out there that weigh 90 pounds soaking wet.
So my reasoning stands as a general rule. Barring adequate training to properly subdue the aggressor in a non damaging way...no MAN OR WOMAN should ever be relegated to just standing there and taking the abuse. Weapons or no weapons...doesn't matter. Abuse is abuse. Physical assault is physical assault. There are no shades of grey. Hitting is hitting.
It's because of people like you, that suggest a man should just take it, that so many crimes against men go unreported, and thereby unnoticed. Women have the understanding that "*ahem* real men don't hit women" so they milk that for all it's worth. They'll abuse their men, and then laugh at them if they try to do something about it. They'll shout "Who'll believe you?!". And they're right. Because this goes unchecked so often, hardly anyone on Earth would believe that a "superior" male would ever get his ass handed to him by an "inferior" female. Whether by fists, feet, weapons or anything else that wasn't nailed down.
Women don't "deserve it", nor should they tolerate it.
MEN don't "deserve it", nor should they tolerate it.
Anyone that thinks that men should just take it is a coward, and a fool. You can't condemn one, and condone the other.
Just sayin'............ | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 12:29:54 PM | wylan,
i'm familiar with the currently held theories and therapy offered for domestic violence. and the reason i say this set of circumstances may be different because we have a one time offense and the man has completely backed off and broke off the realtionship. he was probably horrified at what happened. she was doing some kind of emotional abuse that blew his fuse. that said, i would think that couples counseling would work however she has to talk him into it and he has completely retracted. he is not fitting the profile of a classic abuser. big big difference. and neither is she for that matter. i say they have a good chance of working it out. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 1:07:55 PM | Is resorting to violence wrong? Look up the laws written for the issues, they were created, because of course, it is wrong, or there would not be a need for such laws. There are also laws on using self defense. They were written as guild lines to learn what is just cause for the use of it and also to learn what is considered right and wrong uses of it.
Just like monkeys, humans have the ability to angrily lash out, without notice or forewarning. Unlike monkeys, humans have the option to use their, "Choice", in educating themselves, with what is considered right and wrong, therefore, "Choosing", to put forth what was learned. I've never known the library to be a place a human could not afford to use, in obtaining information, on anything and everything. There is no logical excuse or correct blaming for a human to use violence against another, unless it's a life or death situation. However, it is a choice a human makes, when they show lack in the ability to chose right from wrong, because unlike monkeys, we humans have that ability to learn what is just and what is not. That is the purpose of a human conscious mind, use of the brain and the ability to use their will, in one way or another. Now if a person is in a vegetable state, that right may be beyond ones reach, otherwise, a human chooses their response to what is encountered, what is surrounding them and what they put out, at their own will, Period. NO Excuses or Justifying, makes for good sense, when it comes to violence of any kind, other then self defense in a life or death situation.
It all boils down to a humans, "Choice", in what they choose to think, of what is right or wrong. If domestic violence is what one chooses to engage in, once discovered, then one has chosen to not disengage from what their conscious tells them is wrong.
I think the question here should be, “Am I wrong for engaging in violence, with my partner?” Anyone can answer that, but it is the person asking it, that needs to choose, for themselves of what that answer should be. In the end, a persons going to do what they will, at their own will, but the result will, always be, their own, “Choice”. Therefore, there is no one to blame for the self destructive & hefty price paid along the way, but oneself.
Once a human reaches adult age, it’s all about choices, not excuses, but choices, period. One can’t control what one encounters, but one can control how they respond and what they engage in.
And is it a sign of control or more violence to come in a relationship?
A adult human who shows these signs with another, are who they are, by their own choice. They are showing who they are, it's not going to disappear by another date turning on the calender.
Once again, it's a humans choice to engage or disengage. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 1:58:23 PM |
Church -- I had a "short-list" of people I expected to try and debate that point, and guess what...you were on that list. Thanks for not disappointing me
YOU may have the necessary skills to subdue...but do we all?
No, I actually agree with you in that regard, and size isn't always everything... I had a buddy who was regularly beaten by his (much shorter but heavier )wife... he was substantially bigger than me... but lacked the 'drive' to defend himself against her...
For the most part, female abuse of males is a vastly underreported crime... and one I hadn't really believed until, as I said, seeing it with my buddy and his wife...
In his case, I'd concede that violence to repel violence would be a necessary evil... | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 7:37:11 PM |
No, I actually agree with you in that regard, and size isn't always everything... I had a buddy who was regularly beaten by his (much shorter but heavier )wife... he was substantially bigger than me... but lacked the 'drive' to defend himself against her...
For the most part, female abuse of males is a vastly underreported crime... and one I hadn't really believed until, as I said, seeing it with my buddy and his wife...
In his case, I'd concede that violence to repel violence would be a necessary evil...
Yea this is just it ain't it?
I knew of a guy back in high school that we called "Tank". Big guy...football player, so your prototypical jock type. Walking meat-puppet he was. Nice guy too all things considered.
And he had his ass beat on a regular basis from his SO, who was the prototypical Barbie type. We called him on the bruises and scrapes and cuts, and he finally confessed that he was getting his ass beat on a regular basis because she "got angry". But his justification?
"She's hot"
His reason for not defending himself?
"I'm a man. Men don't hit women. She told me she'd charge ME with assault if I ever said anything because who'd believe me?"
I've seen others in his plight, but he's the top of the cage just based on sheer size. Men regularly get themselves smacked around and do nothing about it because "*ahem* real men don't hit women".
More men should start reporting this supposedly "victimless" crime. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 7:42:08 PM | | Man or woman: "f&!# me once, shame on you, f*#% me twice, shame on ME. Easier said than done, I know, but it's off topic. Violence is not a defense. In most cases, I do agree that a man can subdue a woman without resorting to violence, but whether that is the case or not, violence has no place in a relationship. Time to get out, period. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:12:27 PM | NO, it is not! Unless it's in self defense. My ex-husband did it to me and I did not hit him back but I did do something that made him loosen his choke hold on me.
That was the last time he did it as I pressed charges on him.
Yes it is a billboard sign, if they do it once they will do it again and usually the verbal abuse starts first then it just escalates from there. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:24:02 PM |
You know after reading your posts Mtgirl78, Im beginning to think either you are really stupid or your thread was a joke, because unless you've been living with a bunch of hillbillies with no access to media,tv, radio , running water, grocery stores, Duncan Donuts etc, there is no way in hell you wouldn't know what abuse is? abuse vs self defence... come on now, dont treat us like a bunch of friggen inbreds please.mahogany-rush  you are my new hero mahogany-rush, i cant add anything to that. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:58:23 AM | | Inpune, When I was being choked by my boyfriend once he stopped the car, he choked me twice, refused to open the trunk for me to get my purse, credit cards, id's, cellphone, etc. out of his trunk---I inadvertently scratched his face (like a cat scratch) in self defense) and the police arrested me! The police twisted everything and said I was lying because when they pressured me to tell them the story, I told the police that he would not open the trunk and when they got there the trunk was open because I found the latch and opened it once he jumped out of the car. He called the police to protect himself and filed charges on me and had me arrested! I was on a date so there were no witnesses. He has some major issues from childhood when he was abused by his dad and grandfather and refuses to get help. He emotionally shuts down when he gets tired. When I asked him what is happening and tried just holding him and telling him that I loved him and I will listen if he wants to talk---he became violent and screamed for me to get out of his car. We were almost at my place and then he sped off screaming at me to get out of his car while it was moving. I told him to stop the car and then he choked me before I could get out. The bruises on my arms the police refused to address and told me the next day, these were the bruises when he was trying to stop me from hitting him. Police twist things to protect who they want to protect. They have too much power if you ask me. Not much education either, for the most part. My next thing is to write to the newpapers since my local police continue to harass me by not protecting me when this abuser continues to stalk me and ruin my reputation with others. He tells me he loves me, but refuses to get the real help he needs and then charms his counselors when he does get help here and there. He now gets help from his female friends who he charms. I am the only one who really knows him and even loved him through it all. He refuses any help I tried to give him. I loved him even though I knew his issues---but he treats me like the enemy and I was his closest friend and loved him unconditionally, but I have to protect myself and had to end the relationship to save my own life. I am a professional and he is also trying to ruin my reputation with including the police continuously for minor things and forcing me to include them for major things that he knows I will need to contact them on, such as domestic violence. The best thing for me to do is to stay away from him and pray that my Higher Power makes it possible for him to get the help he needs. I was the closest thing to him and loved him in spite of all his issues. Since I am a medical professional I tried to help him, but he was too close to accept my help sadly to say and I then became his victim. The police or courts refuse to listen or give him the help he needs. My hands are tied. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 5:34:27 AM | Vanilli, My boyfriend and abuser screamed at me while car was moving. Then he stopped the car, refused to open the trunk. He has an old sports car and the trunk latch is not in its normal position and the markings rubbed off, so I did not know where the latch was right away. When he stopped the car, he was screaming at me and immediately grabbed my neck and started choking me twice. Then let go, called the police and dramatized the scene to Protect himself to them because he scared himself when he choked me and had to create an alibi by creating his drama to the police. I scratched his face inadvertantly when trying to get away.
Believe it or not---he has issues of abuse from childhood and he flipped out because I asked him earlier when we were talking why he is shutting down emotionally and told him that I loved him and tried to hold him earlier when the car was stopped. He flipped out because of this. I was trying to rationally understand him and why he shut down. He shut down. I told him to please just drive me home and he was screaming for me to get out of his moving vehicle. I could not get out until he stopped the car and asked if he would open the trunk for me to get my purse and cell phone. I kept it in there because we went to the park that day and I did not want to carry it with me. I now carry at least my cell phone in case of an emergency and a few dollars in my pocket.
Of course the police strip you of everything. No, the police are not trained in knowing who is telling the truth. They get very little training in psychology if any at all. They know how to take into custody and arrest --and they are given too much power. The Judge takes the word of the police usually and rubber stamps everything and then you are forced to take a plea bargain, admit your guilt or you go to trial and if you cannot prove something, you are arrested for several years for what the police accused you of on the spot.(No witnesses while you are on a date in the car.) If you don't have several thousand dollars for a good attorney, you are screwed because the free attorneys that I have had have been worthless and make a bad situation worse. Never even found a good attorney who I paid.
THE REALITY OF OUR LAW IS NOT "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY". YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE YOUR INNOCENT. When one is on a date in a car----there are no witnesses. I usually do not bring a chaperone on a date. My bruises were brushed off by the police.
In my town---the police have alot of bias' and are very prejudiced. They become friends with the criminals if they know they could benefit in some way. They were part of the abuse the entire night that I was there and even called my abuser to the station when I got released to tell me to drive me home. I of course refused. They also refused to give me my purse, credit cards or phone so that I could call a taxi. I had no money, no phone and no transportation. The police also refused to let me use the phone to call for a taxi or a friend. The police also listed all my credit card numbers in their system so that anyone who needed copies of the information in their report could also get my credit card numbers and all my personal id numbers. The splattered my name throughout the police station in front of me and refused to get my credit card numbers off the system even when I contacted their superiors. Do I still respect them? It's hard. I let it go, but they continue to refuse to protect me when the abuser comes over and pounds at my door or sits across the street and stalks me. I do have proof. The police do not care--even when I show them pictures. In my vicinity they are acting like rednecks.The"Boys in Blue" who eats donuts together.
I do hope they get back to their job titles of protecting the citizens and arresting those who break the law and stop patronizing the criminals who make them laugh and are abusing others. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:24:40 PM | Ok... Licoricecat, I keep having one nagging thought...
Why would you put your purse in the trunk of any car except your own?
I ALWAYS keep my purse near me or on me if I am in a public place or in any car except my own... I rarely put my purse in my trunk...
I do not doubt your life experience... It just seems odd.
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:28:15 PM |
You should never strike anyone unless it is in self defence. God help the man that tries to hit me again.
I agree wholeheartedly! | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:49:14 PM | I've never hit anyone in my life.
But I've been hit before.
I can't imagine changing unless
someone was threatening my
kids. I can honestly say I could
kill anyone that hurt my girls.
Other than that...I don't have
anything worth getting physical
for.
The good news I guess...so far
I've not tested my theory.
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:55:39 PM | I've been grown up watching the endless vicious cycle of my mom getting bitten up and forgiving my dad. It has been lasting for almost forty years so far. Using violence and fear is pretty effective way to control others and it's like an addiction once you taste it You know it's not good but you just can't stop it. If you let anyone hit you once, you could see the level of violence hit higher and higher every time 'cause to some degree you already give an approval someone to hit you by letting him(her) and choosing not to leave him(her) and the situaion could get worse and worse sometimes up until it can be a life threating situation.
It's entirely your decision to take it or leave it. But if you stay in a victim's chair, your life doesn't belong to you any more 'cause you are controlled and enslaved by the fear of violence as long as you don't break that vicious cycle by leaving from the violent person and the situation. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:08:28 PM | | Violence is ok in self defense, or in the defense of others, outside of that it is wrong. I'm sure that there will be some that talk about some kind of other abuse, and use that as a justification for getting physical, but really the best answer to most abusive problems is to walk away. Even if someone hits you first, unless they come at you with a weapon or they become so violent that there is a real threat to injury, the best answer is to walk away and stay away. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:17:41 PM |
Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
In self defense, or if I feel serious harm is imminent to either myself or another human being.
I always give a verbal warning, and tell them that there won't be a second one.
After that, all bets are off. | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/22/2009 9:37:31 PM | | Instead of asking this question you need to move on and find someone who respects you and treats you right. As far as this person laying a hand on you and calling you the C word, he needs to be in therapy... | |
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| Is it ever okay to resort to violence?
Posted: 10/23/2009 1:23:07 AM | That would be a "NO."
"Violence never solved anything. We'll, except for World War II"
---Richard Jenny (April 14, 1957 – March 10, 2007)
Other than perhaps self defense when in fear for ones life or to protect the life of another in immediate bodily danger, it is NOT ok to "push, slap, kick or bite someone ," etc.
The person who committed this could be arrested for battery, and sued in civil court for damages.
A person who has this issue on an ongoing basis, who may also yell a lot, esp in frequent anger, appears violent, makes threats (assault), would suggest that this is a person who is one of an abusive nature, and should be avoided.
Don't think you can change this person.
Abuse does not just start. It is something that is developed from childhood and progresses.
(Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This is not legal advice)
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